Inspired by the KAMRUI deal, this seems pretty good given its pricepoint.
$229.99 for 256GB storage
$239.99 for 512GB storage
Only downside is that the RAM is soldered on and can't be expanded :(
CamelCamelCamel.
Sorry I meant to say that it's soldered on and can't be expanded
What if you set the N100 to run in 12W mode? Mine sets it to run at higher wattage and doesn't let me change it to 6W mode to save power.
Double the power consumption for 6% performance increase doesn't seem like a good trade off but that's just based on my use case.
Don't think it doubles the power consumption all the time. It just raises the limit on the max power the CPU can draw.
I think you're right. Looking at this, there's nothing in it https://www.anandtech.com/show/21085/asrock-industrial-nuc-b…
The link above makes no mention of it, but the integrated graphics on the N97 is clocked significantly higher than on the N100.
1.2GHz vs 750MHz
Would be good for Home Assistant
Perfect for HA. I just converted my setup from a Pi4 to one of these.
Overkill for HA I think. You could run HA in a container and have resources to spare.
i have a spare 2.5" 256gb SSD - how will HA run on it if I buy an enclosure and plug it in using USB 3.0? The computer i have is a Dell Optiplex Micro 7040
@cheap4321: I think that would run fine. To compare, running HA and several other containers on my 7060 with data on a gigabit iSCSI SAN (slower than USB 3) is no problem at all.
So If I understood correctly, N97 is basically N100 with higher TDP and clock, just branded as embedded, isn't it?
The GPU is 450mhz higher which is the main point of the N97.
LPDDR5 4800 MT/s 12GB（on Board)
I hope they stick to LPDDR5 4800 MT/s. Mine (different brand) was advertised LPDDR5-4800 but the maker swapped the RAM with slower one. I kept it (too lazy to return it and at the price range, can't expect no component swap). They also did a dodgy swap on the Intel WiFi card (to the cheapest 1x1 Intel WiFi 6, but I have a spare Intel WiFi 6E 2x2 card so I swapped it). I reckon this one might come with a cheap WiFi 6 card inside, instead of a WiFi 5/ac card.
wow, this is really compact. i might get this for my guest room and i can just glue it to the back of the monitor.
Is it really that small compared to a hand?
There is a video on the link that gives a good idea of the size. Perhaps bigger than the picture, but still very compact. Fits in a palm.
A 2024 Corolla is also slower than a 1970s Mustang. Arbitrary comparison is always arbitrary.
Compare power efficiency and size to begin to see the value.
i7-4770 will need to rely on multi core usage to beat N100 and not a huge fan of second hand PCs or laptops. The much improved video decoding and encoding is significant, especially if you watch videos (i7-4770 will waste a lot of CPU power).
I didn't get this one, but my one has USB-C/PD support (so it can be powered by a USB-C adapter and can do power + data + display from 1 port). It also has a USB 3.2 gen 2 port, 1 x 2.5 Gbps LAN + 1 x 1 Gbps LAN, WiFi 6 (which I upgraded to WiFi 6E). No need to worry about HDMI only support 4K/24Hz is also good.
@Ozzster: FYI, I don't neg people's comments even if it the comment contains incorrect information.
When the integrated GPU inside can decode a video at a much faster speed, why waste time on using the CPU? What do you think Apple has been doing? Even Apple has to add VC1 hardware decoding into M3. NVenc means nothing?
The reason why quite a number of people like N100 is because Intel included the same integrated GPU core as 12th gen Intel. Now, if you think that means absolutely zero, then that's fine.
@Ozzster: Problem is 1030 lacks some of video hardware acceleration capabilities (i.e. AV1). Now, if all you care is old tech, then it is fine. However, as I mentioned, I've been using AV1 and it is a big difference to me.
@netsurfer: I have never seen anyone pointing to this codec so much, and never needed it myself. HEVC with big bitrate is still a standard for all movies and videos. AV1 is a niche thing, for now.
@Ozzster: I don't get this fixation on buying really old tech. I threw away a 1030 last year. If I want to game, I wouldn't bother with a 1030.
H265, VP8, VP9… come on, you don't own a recent mobile phones?
@netsurfer: This topic is about desktops. If you don't like 1030 then buy something else. You do have choice when you have full size PCIE slot.
HEVC with big bitrate
Intel i7-4770 does NOT support HEVC decoding, let alone encoding. So the band-aid solution is get 1030 which is overpriced?
@netsurfer: They both are still within the price of this $239.99 N97. And are upgradeable for niche requirements. What you will do if N97 will be too slow at something what is not slow on the 4th gen?
@Ozzster: yea the N100 is more optimized than your 12yo cpu. One of my old machines was a 4790K. It sits in a corner of my garage because its not worth switching on.
@Ozzster: I have 2 n100's running dedicated tasks. I wouldnt use my 4790K for it unless I want a higher power bill.
@u u: Do you have particular numbers? Like 5w difference per CPU hour is $5 per year or anything like that?
@Ozzster: This is a N97 deal and due to N97 being set to 12W, Intel i7-4770 is no match in single core. Your N100 result is likely based on 6W and when that limit is raised to 12W, once again, single core, Intel 4th gen can't match.
Don't get me wrong, I still have an older Intel CPU based system and I do use the excuse multiple core performance is still faster. However, if I am being honest, I really want to move on to newer gen based CPUs. Intel was quite arrogant and gave us incremental upgrades from 3rd gen to 7th gen Intel core CPUs.
Another thing is these el cheapo Mini PCs use a very basic BIOS and they boot really fast. I hold back my N100 on WiFi as I actually have a spare WiFi 7 card, but my old Intel PC can only do WiFi 6E (it does support Windows 11) so I don't want the N100 to exceed it yet.
@netsurfer: Why do you emphasise cores like they are aside of CPU? You buy whole CPU as is, and if it powerful enough it will perform the task with less load and less consumption. And when you run any modern application they all are optimized for multiple cores.
@Ozzster: The 4770 has a tdp of 85W probably even worse for my 4790k. The n100 has a tdp of 6w and is fast enough for the tasks I use it for. Costs depend on your supplier and which state youre in but even if Im getting free power during the day from my solar panels why use more electricity than I have to?
Or look at it this way the 4770 draws so much power it needs a massive fan to dump the heat while the n100 has a tiny little fan and in some of these microcomputers theyre even fanless.
@u u: On full load, this is important to mention. Full load for it is not available for N97. Give them equal load to be fair. And it may remove the need of fan too.
@Ozzster: True but if the n100 is enough for me then if I assume its running at full load all the time thats still only 6W. I cant find idle figures for the 4770 or 4790k but I doubt it ramps down anywhere near that low. If it did people would be using it for a NAS. My nas is a ancient n36l from 2011? 13?. tdp is 13W. Im considering upgrading it to one of those n100 boards since it might fit in the same case but im still thinking about how to get enough sata ports. (need at least 6)
@u u: People use them not only for NAS but for anything other than games. "Enough" works until the next update of the app that you need. After the update the "Enough" bar can move up, and you'll throw away this little toy.
@Ozzster: I know what a 'full' pc is used for. My 4790K system has far more i/o ports than this n100 but when I got this n100 it was for dedicated tasks. If this is toy then I guess tv's are too. and phones are the worst at that. I wont argue with that. I started using pcs in the 90s and I really enjoy tinkering with them but sometimes I want something that just works and I can stuff inside the cupboard to do dedicated tasks and not have to worry about it. I think you'll be surprised with the quality of these el cheapo machines. Its not the early 2000s anymore with the bad caps fiasco. If you spec it high enough and it has all the io ports you need theyll last you a while.
@Ozzster: @Ozzster There is nothing that this can't do that a 4th gen Intel chip can do.
Sure.. you can add a GPU to your 4th gen chip to add capability, but at the end of the day you have A or B.
A is a tiny Win11 capable system that covers pretty much all your needs and might sip 10 watts on average from a wall outlet.
B is a giant desk box with maybe 5% more performance but much much less capability sucking down a minimum of 50 watts at idle, probably closer to 100 if you have a GPU in it, and you'll need to mod a Win 11 install to make it work.
And even if you don't like Win11 you can't deny the Win 10 EoL is coming.
Those are the bare facts.
Now.. if you already happen to own that 4th gen i7 and want to get your last bit of value out of it i salute you… All machines deserve a long live and then proper recycling, but suggesting picking one up used as any kind of value alternative to the OP deal is absurd.
I'd suspect real world for the bulk of actual tasks this 10 year newer CPU will stand up well against the 4th gen.
@virtual81: -There is nothing that this can't do..
Nothing? RAM upgrade? GPU upgrade? SSD, etc? Pure CPU power is not indefinite, it will not be enough soon.
Where did I say "giant desk box" or you are arguing with your own dreams?
-minimum of 50 watts at idle - is idle for "giant desk box" that you made up again? Google tells me that 4470 and average gaming card in idle take 40-50w combined.
If you think that those are the bare facts, google better.
@Ozzster: @Ozzster
Big desk box - that comes from you implying you'd use it with a 1030.. and that that's going to mean a case that, even if mini ITX in size is 27x the volume of the tiny rig in the OP.
If i'm wrong then link me a case that will accommodate the i7 and a PCIe GPU.
This thing is 0.228 liters, show me an affordable and readily available case that can accommodate and i7 and a 1030 anywhere near that in volume.
And yes, there are many codecs a 4th gen core CPU can't handle in any sensible hardware accelerated way, and not accelerated, sure, it will do anything if you feed it enough electricity.
Minimum 50 watts idle… well i have a 4th gen i5 here with an 80+ gold PSU and it's running closer to 60 watts idle, SSD storage, no mechanical disks, measured at the wall outlet, box only… so i was being generous to you. I doubt the i7 would be much, and sure, this will vary from motherboard to motherboard but not by a lot. I will give you a tip, don't pick an argument with someone into power electronics, you won't win.
But let's say you're google god is correct, this still likely uses 1/10th the power for only a 15% drop in performance.
Maybe try googling 'efficiency'… in fact, use DuckDuckGo, it's a better search engine.
And.. no need to google better, i have similar (i5) samples and a lab full of test gear here i can get first hand data from.
The simple facts are anyone buying the machine in the OP is after it for either a tiny home lab, media playback or for light desktop duty.
None of those things will be done better by a 10 year old PC.
For anyone buying for gaming or harder workloads, they will find much better options than your 10 year old i7.
I gave you a line by saying keeping one if you own one already is a wise thing to do, but you decided to argue stupid points instead.
You are wrong in so many ways it's almost as if you're trolling.
There is no further value in dialogue with you so I'll leave it at that.
I don't care too much about your misinformation outside of it's influence harming others, but given the number of negative votes you've accumulated here i think most people have seen through your flawed logic already.
@virtual81: that comes from you implying - wrong guess.
1030 are often low profile, ask google.
Why you keep sayings "Minimum 50 watts idle?" in regards of a PC with 1030 or no graphic. Why my googling tells me that it should be 20w if you don't mess with something? Can you give a source for your believe in 50w idle? If you have your own gear show it, let see. But not i5, they are out of topic.
they will find much better options - name them in this budget, stay in the same price limit.
@Ozzster: The i7-4770 mini PC isn't good either. The Dell one I was looking at, R7 200 1MB video card, 450GB storage HDD so that means it only supports SATA. Fresh install Windows on an HDD…. no thanks.
For me, I want 2.5Gbps LAN, at least USB 3.2 gen 2 (10Gbps), decent video encoding / decoding performance. The N100 I bought has all that. It supports both PCIe and CNVio2 WiFi cards, something my old Intel 8th gen desktop can't even do (thanks to Intel for not thinking ahead with CNVio1). I paid less than $200 AUD (and that's before cashback, if TopCashBack can hurry up with the cashback, then it would be $161 AUD). That N100 can even be powered by a USB-C adapter. I can just connect it to my Dell monitor that supports USB-C/PD, 1 cable to do power, video and data. 3 x 4K 60Hz HDR - no problem… it has 1 HDMI, 1 DisplayPort, 1 USB-C/alt-mode DP 1.4, all capable of 4K/60Hz HDR.
For those apps which run faster on i7-4770. honestly, I would rather use a much more powerful machine. For Chrome, VLC Player, Office etc… N100 can beat i7-4770 (my N100 is configured to allow up to 12W, not the 6W setup). Some OZBers bought N100 mini PCs for less than $100 each (I think there were 2 deals) so my $161 is still overpaid.
@netsurfer: 2.5Gbps LAN , USB 3.2 gen 2 - what for? Why not USB 4?
SATA - still doable for SSD.
3 x 4K 60Hz HDR - no problem - what game can it run like that? Or what app?
Haha! Damn this power efficiency! Intel should have continued in the Pentium D direction.
I'd consider running costs too, 24x7 over a year it adds up. Any 4th gen based intel system would be very old by now too and adding an additional GPU just to do decode work is going add more to those running costs.
@Hank Scorpion: I don't know what decode you are referring to. My CPU rarely goes above 20% load and goes to sleep when I don't need it. The same for 4-10 gen, as I have multiple. In multi core CPU you would use 1 the majority of the time, which makes it 25% load overall. The consumption is proportional.
Once again, to get it clear - you cannot extract full power from your CPU in daily life. You barely can overload 2 cores for a short-term task. I exclude top games and professional software which are not a subject for $200 desktop. 2 cores on 4470 in peak load will not consume more than 41w, and if you load them with browsers and office apps you will consume by both cores not more than 20% in average. You are looking at 10 watts per hour. If you want to pay double price to reduce that to 2 watts, sure.
No one here provided any own made actual measurements, but so many believe to something they don't see themselves, feels like a religion :)
1/7 of the power consumption in a tiny box with a bunch of modern features.
If that isn't enough for browsing of heavy websites how efficient your saving is? Or if it dies in a year or two? Dell mini PC isn't fragile or unreliable.
And, speaking of power, with a load less than 20w and sleeping when not used that 4th gen will not be different to your power bill. While extra 100 bucks is noticably different.
N100 is likely to do better in Web browsing than i7-4770 because its single core performance is at least comparable if not better. Furthermore, its hardware accelerated video decoding on H265, VP8, VP9 and AV1 means watching videos (even through Web browser) will be much more pleasant and the CPU fan won't need to go full on.
I've used AV1 lately, the file size saving and the quality is worth it, unless you love wasting 3X to 4X storage for the storing video files.
I've got a ~15 year old x58 motherboard with 24gb of tri channel ram and a Xeon X5450 (14 years old)
Despite CPU-Z reckoning that this is only 25% core for core the speed of my AMD5900X, it still plays 1080P Genshin Impact smootly at 1080P for my daughter with a GtX1070Ti , smooth as butter.
From what I've been seeing on some "old CPU vs new CPU" type comparisons, some of the whizbang faster kit brings only 10 - 20% to the table with older games.. Amazing value.
If this thing can keep up with a 10 year old i7, it's a bargain complete system for a price less than a windows 11 licencse costs!
120W TDP plus discrete graphics card 🙄
And the rest, it's overclocked from 2.6 to 3.6… a bit power hungry on the Xeon CPU. That wasn't the point of my post though, which was these little 12W machines are probably similar capability… will test when it arrives of course
last of the non-self destructing cpus. Gen 13 onwards have a drastically reduced life cycle compared to previous gens as they slowly self destruct by destroying the microchips with every power cycle.
Can you provide sources for this? Curious
YT
just popped up on my feed. here's the quick and dirty version of it
https://youtube.com/shorts/EJIM_oqvXD8?si=NHWBjIXwdS35qEbw
cooked chips are cooked
These tiny machines look like an absolute bargain… must resist biying something I absolutely do not need.
I mean… when you just want to boot up for desktop use this is less power draw than my idling GPU.
Are they actually useably quick? I have an N100 which I found perfectly fine, it had twin NIC and was used for firewalling.
I assume you could twin up a VLAN enabled managed switch with the one NIC and pfsense to make a powerful little border gateway firewall with this.
Damn it, I bought one.
Found these $50 cheaper, lower spec though : https://www.aliexpress.com : GMKtec KB5 Mini PC Intel Celeron N5105 Windows 11 Pro 4K 8GB RAM 128GB ROM WiFi5 BT4.2 Desktop Computer Mini Pc Work : $189 - but US or EU plug
Will these tiny PCs be able to run music software (daw) like Ableton, or reaper? or web based versions like bandlab?
Yeah of course! How well they run is another question altogether though.
Any cheap deals for multi nic?
Would it be easy to turn one of these into a nas?
Not really. I don;t think so. It doesnt have enough sata ports. There are nvme to sata adaptors but it might not fit inside the case.
Bought, always wanted to play around with a N100 miniPC, good price to jump in especially on slightly faster chip and DDR5. Now to work out what to do with it….
Nice unit. 1 issue is the weird 2242 M.2. form factor.
2242 is a standard M.2 format, but not commonly used. 2230, 2242, 2260, 2280 or 22110.
It creates the issue that if you want to upgrade the SSD you have to buy one of the more expensive 2230 SSDs. The size most SSDs available are, 2280, won't fit in a box this small.
I presume that it will take either a 2242 or 2230 SSD. If it will only take 2242 SSDs, that'd make it almost impossible to upgrade the SSD in it.
Yes, didn't say it was non-standard, only weird. It will accept 2242 and smaller SSDs. Also the one that comes in the box is only SATA, not NVME. It does support NVMe though.
Shipping it with a 2242 SATA SSD is really weird. A SATA SSD is more expensive and slower than an NVMe one. They must of got hold of a load of them cheap.
@GordonD: I can sort of understand the 2242 form factor though given the space limitations for this unit.
low-key wish it had 16GB ram…
I need something with considerably low power consumption to run as a Plex server, would this be a great device? Or is there something else better suited?
An N100 mini PC would have lower power consumption, but these Alder Lake mini PCs make fantastic Plex servers with the inclusion of AV1 decoding.
Watch this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhvLpwUEENM
There are some issues with power via USB ports.
@DigitalAnalog yes I would also suggest an N100; Intel Quick-Sync is the go for Plex Servers.
Thank you peeps. is this the device you are referring to?
GMKtec G3 Mini PC, Intel Alder Lake N100 Windows 11 Pro (3.4GHz), 8GB DDR4 RAM 256GB PCIe M.2 SSD
More tests…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhvLpwUEENM
This video shows the power issues it can have with the USB ports….
this may cause issues with a Plex Server…
$10 powered USB hub solves it.
I'm kinda new to mini pcs/NUCS so I'm not too sure on specifics, but I was thinking instead of buying a whole PC to buy something like this. My use case will probably be editing on DaVinci Resolve and the occasional photo edit. Do you guys think this is the right buy or should I go for something more powerful?
Well, this is a whole PC. But if your primary use case is video editing, you will want something more powerful.
haha when I said whole pc I meant like dedicated gpu and stuff. Thanks for the help tho! I will look at bigger pcs
Anyone set these up for RV/mobile home Plex media servers with home assistant?
i wish it can be power-up by usb-c.
But man..its form factor is so compact!!!
wait they included 12gb odd of onboard ram?