Rising Concerns: The Growing Prevalence of Autism in Today's Society

johnfuller on 31/07/2024 - 16:43
Last edited 08/08/2024 - 08:31 by 2 other users

I'd like to discuss a serious and seemingly widespread issue: autism. When I speak with individuals aged 80 and above, they recall that there was typically one person in their village with Down syndrome, known by everyone, and they were treated just like everyone else, leading a normal life. Nowadays, a child born with autism has their life significantly adjusted to accommodate their needs.

I've observed that many families have at least one child on the autism spectrum, and some even have two, despite the parents being unrelated. This appears to be becoming increasingly common, raising concerns about the future and whether our children will be able to have their own children, given the prevalence of this issue.

In my opinion, this situation is more alarming than any pandemic because it is insidious and often goes unnoticed.

Is it pollution? The environment? Stress? The food we eat? Plastics?

As a new parent, this truly terrifies me.

Health & Beauty

Comments

      • mrdean on 31/07/2024 - 18:00
        -6

        It has been admitted in some cases as a "contributing" cause.

        https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/13164/chapter/1
        page 110 of 866.

        “In addition, the three publications described above presented clinical evidence sufficient for the committee to conclude the vaccine was a contributing cause of measles inclusion body encephalitis after administration of a measles-containing vaccine.”

        National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2012. Adverse Effects of Vaccines: Evidence and Causality. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press.

        • ForkSnorter on 01/08/2024 - 07:50
          +20

          But these are anecdotal reports, and if you read further below, it says:

          The committee assesses the mechanistic evidence regarding an association between the measles vaccine and measles inclusion body encephalitis in individuals with demonstrated immunodeficiencies as strong based on one case presenting definitive clinical evidence.
          The committee assesses the mechanistic evidence regarding an association between the mumps or rubella vaccine and measles inclusion body encephalitis as           lacking.

          Causality Conclusion:

          Conclusion 4.1: The evidence convincingly supports a causal relationship between MMR1 vaccine and measles inclusion body encephalitis in individuals with demonstrated immunodeficiencies.

          Furthermore, if you keep reading, it says:

          The committee assesses the mechanistic evidence regarding an association between MMR vaccine and encephalitis as weak based on knowledge about the natural infection and three cases.

          And, let's not forget, the risk of measles inclusion body encephalitis after actually being infected by measles is certainly much higher than after a vaccine. Furthermore, the probability of infection by measles is extremely high if you have not received a vaccine, especially if you live in an unvaccinated community.

          And let's just take a closer look at how rare this problem is. There are still only 3 anecdotal reports of this happening after a vaccine. It is extremely rare even among unvaccinated people, and could not possibly account for a significant increase in autism like the guy above suggested:

          Measles inclusion body encephalitis, or severe brain swelling caused by the measles virus, is a complication of getting infected with the wild-type measles virus. While rare, this disorder almost always happens in patients with weakened immune systems. The illness usually develops within 1 year after initial measles infection and has a high death rate. There have been three published reports of this complication happening to people who are vaccinated. In these cases, encephalitis developed between 4 and 9 months after MMR vaccination. In one case, the measles vaccine strain was identified as the cause.

          • James Gunno on 01/08/2024 - 08:59
            -4

            @ForkSnorter: Yes, and therefore it would be right that a mild swelling of the brain would not cause classic autism, but would cause the other mainstream diagnosed traits of autism…

            It is a known pathway. That is why most people are on the spectrum.

            What percentage of people with autism are those that developed it through severe brain swelling, rather than minor brain swelling?

            • ForkSnorter on 01/08/2024 - 09:20
              +3

              @James Gunno: And yet measles inclusion body encephalitis is so rare that it could not possibly account for any identifiable increase in autism as you claim.

              Furthermore, there have only been 3 reported cases of measles inclusion body encephalitis occurring after a vaccine, and only one of those was identified as causally related to the vaccine.

              Your suggestion that "minor brain swelling" causes minor autism sounds really unscientific, especially without any evidence, and the suggestion that vaccines regularly cause "minor brain swelling" is absolute nonsense.

              The notion that 50 or 100 years ago the majority of the population was normal and now we have heaps of autistic and ADHD people is also implausible. The further back you go, the more unreliable our knowledge about the population, and the fewer records there are.

              Psychology and psychiatry have gradually emerged as scientific disciplines within or adjacent to modern medicine over the past 70 or so years. Our knowledge of mental illness has steadily increased over that period, and access to medical/psychiatric diagnosis and care has also steadily increased over that period. It is only natural that more people would be diagnosed with mental illnesses now than in the past.

              Furthermore, if we think about the distant past, given the extremely high child mortality rate before the development of modern medicine, it is not likely that many babies/children with severe mental illness or retardation survived to adulthood. In medieval times (perhaps right up until the modern age) these were often considered the work of the devil, so it is likely that many were murdered at a young age or were given insufficient care.

              Finally, we have to think about the recent trend of people giving birth later and later in life, which is known to increase the likelihood of mental and physical illnesses.

                • ForkSnorter on 01/08/2024 - 12:53
                  +1

                  @KamalaHarris 4Prez: It used to be the "mercury". Now it's "vaccine-induced brain swelling".

                  What will they think up next to blame vaccines for autism?

                  • morse on 04/08/2024 - 09:28

                    @ForkSnorter: To be fair you can have too much mercury, it’s just not for the vaccines. I read at least one case study where a mum gave her kid far too much seafood (like A LOT) trying to make him smart and gave him mercury poisoning which has the opposite effect.

                • Ughhh on 01/08/2024 - 13:23

                  @KamalaHarris 4Prez:

                  because no one wants to fund it. Why don't we do a study on it?

                  Scientific research is expensive. Money needs to come from somewhere. Most of the time the Gov or a big Corp, both of whom the minority hate, but are unwilling to chip in $.

                  If it's not what the minority likes to see, they'll just argue "follow the money".

          • mrdean on 01/08/2024 - 10:58
            -1

            @ForkSnorter:

            But these are anecdotal reports,

            I'm aware of the nature of the reports, as I am aware of the IOM's reporting methodology & the conclusions they reached not just in the 2012 report, but in their previous ones.

            In my opinion the incidence of encephalitis or inflammation of the brain of those who receive vaccines (typically young infants & children) is under reported.

            Although the safety reporting systems are generally happily used by entities like the CDC to show vaccines are "safe & effective", when it comes to harms they are said to be unreliable. Nevertheless if anyone took the time to run reports & carefully read the descriptions, it should become obvious that there is a problem.

            As an example, I ran a report for measles vaccines in MedAlerts (which is the NVIC's front end for the CDC's Wonder System VAERS - this "anti-vaccine" NVIC used volunteers to build MedAlerts because VAERS was difficult to extract data from), asking to see any reports that included encephalitis as a result & where the patient was hospitalized. There were around 230 hits. The VAERS databases covers the time period from about the late 1980's to the present.

            This 16 year old female had this in the write up field:
            "Developed headache the weekend following MMR immun & swollen cervical nodes; Saw MD sp tap & blood tests done; Spinal was negative for meningitis; Antibiotics given 13MAR; Test results 14MAR & Dx by MD of Encephalitis due to MMR;"

            A 16 month old boy:
            "Pt recvd MMR vax 13JUL90; On 17JUL90 pt devel encephalitis w/fever, sleepiness, & loss of balance; The following day unsteady gait & loss of balance persisted, & was hospitalized for observation overnight; Pt recovered;"

            This 20 month old girl, onset 9 days post vaccination:
            "Pt recvd MMR vax 31AUG90; On 09SEP90 pt was hospitalized w/focal encephalitis believed due to herpes virus infect;16OCT90 pt cont to exp bilateral blindness,devel delay,&a stroke synd involving rt side of body;MD didn''t attribute exp to vax"

            Many more write ups that potentially implicate the vaccinations as the cause. However, because the belief that vaccinations are "safe & effective" is drummed into people from an early age, linking these tragic outcomes to them is overlooked.

            • buckster on 01/08/2024 - 14:41
              +4

              @mrdean: You can believe in fairies if you want but it doesn't make them real.

              Vaccines are safe and effective and it's as real as gravity and better that people are taught this early with it being
              "drummed in" than being swindled from being fed BS like this.

      • thanatos350 on 01/08/2024 - 14:41
        +5

        FWIW, I work with autistic children and I have been told by several parents that their child regressed following vaccination. There is obviously a lot at play here, especially because parents are often left to seek information and answers independently following diagnosis (especially if the doc isn't great).

        I think the single biggest contributing factor may have been lockdowns and delayed socialisation - not as a cause, but just something that could have intensified or illuminated existing developmental delays. The autistic kids who continued to attend preschool seem to do better than those who were kept at home.

        • mrdean on 01/08/2024 - 14:57
          -1

          I work with autistic children and I have been told by several parents that their child regressed following vaccination.

          I suspect those parents are right, but also suspect most parents have not yet made the connection between their kids autism & their vaccinations.

          There was a professor at Caltech named Paul Patterson who worked with rodent models of schizophrenia & autism.
          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17913903/
          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21289542/
          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21482187/

          He noticed that what he called "maternal immune activation" could create behavioral abnormalities in offspring.

    • CurlCurl on 31/07/2024 - 18:40
      +2

      It has already been proven that vaccines can cause encephalitis and inflammation of the brain.

      Inflammation of the brain in childhood has been correlated with increased risk of developing autism.

      Looks like you have have had six put together to come up with that rubbish.

    • suzley on 01/08/2024 - 14:46

      Just don't have any vaccinations and you will not live long enough to know whether you'd be on the spectrum or have Down.

      • ConsumerAffairs on 01/08/2024 - 16:05
        -3

        And yet all the elderly that were around before mass vaccinations are walking around alive and well without them, go figure.
        Major improvements in hygiene and sanitation is what has saved people.

        • kale chips suck on 02/08/2024 - 00:28
          +3

          Probably because those that died from disease aren't walking around alive and well, but might well have been if they'd had the opportunity to vaccinate against those diseases.

    • mr_asstight on 29/09/2024 - 01:26

      Yep! And the mainstream is still in disbelief.

  • shaybisc on 31/07/2024 - 17:41
    +6

    Is Downes syndrome going up? Should be going down with folate in everything, prenatal screening and elective abortions.

    • trongy on 01/08/2024 - 08:50
      +14

      People with Down's syndrome are now several decades longer, on average.

      The average life expectancy of a person with Down syndrome is now around 60 years of age

      This means it's possible that there may be simultaneously fewer people being born with Down's syndrome and more people living with Down's syndrome.

      The OP has been careful not to provide any actual statistics, just alarmist pabulum.

    • morse on 04/08/2024 - 07:45

      Folate has nothing to do with Down’s syndrome. Adequate folate can prevent spina bifida which is totally different to DS and Autism.

  • Clear on 31/07/2024 - 18:00
    +2

    At least now there's a whole lot more genetic screening available to detect down syndrome before birth. SA Pathology run SAMSAS in multiple states for screening and account for about 85% or 20,000 tests per year.

  • Ocker on 31/07/2024 - 18:08
    +2

    Genetics?

      • buckster on 01/08/2024 - 14:42
        +1

        Is that how the lizard people came about or were they a natural mutation or an alien species?

        • mrdean on 01/08/2024 - 14:44

          Lizards = souls with little or no empathy.

          Sort of like in Oliver Stone's Wall Street movie = Gordon GEKKO.

  • Drakesy on 31/07/2024 - 18:11
    +7

    *and ADHD.

    Have a family friend who's coping mechanism to keep their kid quiet was give them their phone/ipad.
    Kid was hyperactive and wouldn't stop running around etc.

    She took the kid to 4-5 psychologists, until one gave her the "correct" diagnosis and she got the ritalin/Dexamphetamines she wanted.

    All the other psych's said the kid just needed to be outside more/get into sport but she wouldn't take their advice.

    • BLDM on 01/08/2024 - 08:36
      +5

      And did the Ritalin/dexamphetamines work? Because FYI - if a person who doesn’t have ADHD takes these meds, they have the opposite effect. They are stimulants so will make you more hyperactive. A person with ADHD’s brain works differently and reacts differently to stimulants than those who don’t have ADHD. If they work, then your friends child did in fact receive the “correct” diagnosis…

      • Drakesy on 01/08/2024 - 10:43

        Debatable, i don't have ADHD and have taken both a friend's dexamphetamines/ritalin and neither had a stimulatory effect on me.

        • banana365 on 01/08/2024 - 12:48
          +6

          Don't have ADHD, or haven't been diagnosed as having it?

        • BLDM on 01/08/2024 - 12:53
          +6

          If you don’t have ADHD then why did you take your friends drugs? I think I’ll take the word of trained professional drs over some rando on the internet who has a “family friend” and take drugs that wasn’t prescribed to them.

  • justworld on 31/07/2024 - 18:18
    +14

    Down syndrome is a chromosomal disorder

    Autism is a condition with a spectrum and no one single cause

    To suggest that some component of modern living is acting on both conditions, noting their entirely different aetiologies, is like saying that modern life is contributing to more asthma and more broken legs.

    One common thread I can think of is that the NDIS heavily incentivises both parents and treatment providers to classify children as having autism for funding's sake. This can mean that more borderline cases are diagnosed. Same goes with ADHD. However, Down syndrome has a specific chromosomal test and so is not subject to 'diagnosis inflation'. Having said that, more older women are having kids, and maternal age correlates very closely with Down Syndrome risk.

    • MrThing on 31/07/2024 - 19:02
      +1

      down syndrome is black and white as you suggest, you either have it or not.

      however there is still a spectrum of how severe the case is. I am sure we have all come across high funding down syndrome people who hold down jobs versus down syndrome people who need round the clock care

    • CurlCurl on 31/07/2024 - 19:04

      Having said that, more older women are having kids, and maternal age correlates very closely with Down Syndrome risk.

      There is a medical test for that.

    • buckster on 01/08/2024 - 14:43

      Paternal age correlates equally closely with it too

  • Ghost47 on 31/07/2024 - 18:19

    If there's actually an increase and it's not due to better diagnosis (honestly it seems like more people are self-diagnosing these days due to autism being on a spectrum, e.g. high functioning autism) then it could be due to environmental factors affecting epigenetics and gene expression, just off the top of my head.

    Either way the most prudent approach to having kids IMO is ensuring you and your spouse are eating a very healthy diet which includes eating fresh fruits and veg and exercising regularly. I would say that helps to minimise any chances of your children being born with health issues. And no I'm not saying this will definitely prevent any issues from arising, that would be silly.

  • CurlCurl on 31/07/2024 - 18:44
    -2

    In my opinion, this situation is more alarming than any pandemic because it is insidious and often goes unnoticed.

    In my opinion, if you have a 5G phone you best get rid of it quick.

  • MrThing on 31/07/2024 - 18:53
    +6

    all thats happened is we introduced the word "spectrum" and now its "autism spectrum disorder" which includes autism and Asperger's

    now the NDIS is the biggest money pit us tax payers pay for

    and since its such a huge pot of free money everyone has come out of the woodwork trying to grab a slice of the pie…..parents, doctors, providers, scammers, criminals, etc

    time to lock it down, remove certain bs subjective disorders and put pricing caps of certain services/medicines/products/devices/etc and only contribute a percentage kind of like how Medicare does

    • mrdean on 31/07/2024 - 18:59
      +2

      Time to objectively look at the root causes & the true incidence.

      • banana365 on 01/08/2024 - 13:06
        +2

        Do you not think that's happening? Do you think people are aware of ASD and going "hmm, let's not bother finding out why it exists or how widespread it is"? Finding true incidence is hard as there are many external factors. In some countries there's more shame attached to being "different" (of whatever aspect) so that difference is suppressed or hidden. In others, there's a slight incentive to be open, e.g. NDIS funding. That may causing people without a real need to seek out that funding, but that's a tiny factor.

        Having been through the very long winded and ongoing process for NDIS funding for one of my kids and an extended family member going through it frequently (it's often not just a "one and done" process, it needs repeated regularly) the hurdles you need to get over need a lot of proof and effort. Some non-genuine applicants may be willing to go through that, but it's like welfare fraud - negligible and overblown my media needing to pick on someone else they can make you angry with.

        There are definitely providers with NDIS funding ripping off the system, but that's not the end users' fault. We had one of our service providers recommend remodelling our bathroom to accommodate our kid's needs. The company to be used (very likely personally linked to the provider in some way, but we had no solid evidence) would charge somewhere over $30k for the work. When I pointed out that the outcome they were looking for could be achieved by a visit to Bunnings and an afternoon's work for less than $200 in parts they were not in the slightest bit embarrassed. We refused to work with that provider again.

        • mrdean on 01/08/2024 - 13:39

          I have no doubt rorts are rife within NDIS. In fact, I would go so far as to say that is one reason it was set up, to provide an avenue for providers to rip off the system. It reminds me a bit of the privatization of the old CES (Commonwealth Employment Service) & how many companies providing job services were also rorting the system. I also think that was by design too.

          Sorry to hear about your childs experience. The root causes I mentioned are "environmental", in my opinion. I do not think they are being looked at, quite the opposite, they are being deliberately ignored or covered up.

  • rumblytangara on 31/07/2024 - 19:03
    +8

    they recall that there was typically one person in their village with Down syndrome, knownby everyone, and they were treated just like everyone else, leading a normal life.

    I call BS. And what's your background that you are talking about older people living in villages?

    I've observed that many families have at least one child on the autism spectrum, and some even have two

    I call BS again.

  • GordonD on 31/07/2024 - 19:07
    -5

    There were hardly any people with "autism", until the psychological profession saw the opportunity to themselves of grapping Aspergers Syndrome and calling it a type of autism. Suddenly they had 10 times as many people who were "autistic" and required their treatment.

    You have to look at where "autism", as it is currently officially defined, occurs. Curiously it is not randomly distributed across all types of schools. It is much more prevalent in the rich suburbs and rich schools can get more funding by having more "autistic" students, and where the parents can get special assistance, and where the students can get special considerations. And much less prevalent in poor public schools.

    When you offer people some financial advantage for something, and that something as poorly defined as "autism", or Aboriginality, or something like that, suddenly a whole lot more of them come out of the woodwork.

    • CurlCurl on 31/07/2024 - 19:15
      +7

      You have to look at where "autism", as it is currently officially defined, occurs. Curiously it is not randomly distributed across all types of schools. It is much more prevalent in the rich suburbs and rich schools can get more funding by having more "autistic" students, and where the parents can get special assistance, and where the students can get special considerations. And much less prevalent in poor public schools.

      Pardon?

      • GordonD on 31/07/2024 - 19:34
        -3

        I don't need to be pardoned, thank you. I've seen the numbers for NSW schools.

        And, no, I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I was told three decades ago I should investigate whether I had Aspergers, then told by someone who should know that I almost certainly was but they weren't allowed to make an official diagnosis. Back then we tried to persuade people that we were better than neurotypicals at certain jobs, and they should jump at the chance at employing us. Only for the psychological profession to come along and rename it "on the autism spectrum", which portrayed us as retards who needed their help, destroying all the good work we'd done to portray ourselves positively. Then everyone jumped on the free lunch wagon. Me too. Me too. And we were rolled in with all the kids who had behavioural problems and their parents couldn't cope with for any reason.

        Autism is quite different to what Asperger saw and described back in the 80s. The number with autism hasn't increase. It was just that the psychology profession grabbed Aspergers, called it autism too, and rolled in a whole lot of other development and parenting problems, and bingo they had 10 times as big a customer base.

      • Grunntt on 01/08/2024 - 11:15

        It is much more prevalent in the rich suburbs and rich schools can get more funding by having more "autistic" students, and where the parents can get special assistance, and where the students can get special considerations. And much less prevalent in poor public schools.

        Pardon?

        I believe they may be referencing this or similar -
        TheGuardian

      • Jake D on 01/08/2024 - 11:44
        +3

        They were so close to getting it.

        The diagnostic process is long and expensive. It is understandable that people who can afford pricey schools in rich suburbs are also able to work their way through the diagnosis a bit easier.

        Schools don't receive funding based on numbers of students with diagnosed conditions. Sometimes, a diagnosis will entitle a student to allowances or access to extra aids, or carers, or devices. But that doesn't translate to dollars in the school's pocket.

    • Save Medicare on 31/07/2024 - 21:39

      I think it was a Nazi thing. Same reason behind Wegener's granulomatosis

    • BLDM on 01/08/2024 - 08:58
      +1

      As a parent of a child on the autism spectrum who has been to both private and public schools - this is the biggest load of BS I’ve heard. In reality, public schools get more funding for our kids than private “rich” schools and I had to pull my son out of the public system because the public school he was in was taking in so many diagnosed kids for the cash grab that every class 5 or 6 of them in it. This meant that the teachers weren’t able to actually teach, and that the special education unit were useless because they were too overworked and the school was spending the funding on new playgrounds. Private “rich” schools get less funding, and are very selective with who they take in. They don’t want kids with behavioral issues tarnishing their name so kids with diagnosis are usually discriminated against when applying for positions in these schools. My son is very well behaved at school, he is very rule oriented and thrives on structure so private school has been the best for him.

    • larndis on 01/08/2024 - 09:04

      Source?

    • trapper on 01/08/2024 - 12:19
      +2

      I know a fairly wealthy stay-at-home mum with an autistic child (a legitimate case), but then the mum decided she must be autistic too and managed to get herself diagnosed.

      Now she has people coming in to do all the housework for her, all paid for by NDIS, madness.

      • banana365 on 01/08/2024 - 13:09
        +4

        You say "managed to get herself diagnosed" like it's something you get if you throw enough money at it. That's not how it works.

        • thanatos350 on 01/08/2024 - 15:20
          +1

          There is still something to consider here, though. If you go on Reddit, it is clear that a bunch of people visit multiple doctors to confirm their self diagnosis (for better or worse).

          It seems a little easier to obtain a diagnosis as an adult as opposed to a child, oddly enough - despite symptoms being more obvious with a younger population. The process is long and rigorous.

          I work in this field and I do think the other commenter may not be fully aware of the nature of the woman's life. Despite the overall cost, the NDIS can actually be pretty stingy and would require significant evidence before funding extensive domestic assistance.

          • banana365 on 01/08/2024 - 15:50
            +1

            @thanatos350: Yes, significant evidence, a self diagnosis barely reaches the threshold for "evidence". As you say, that commenter is looking at that person's life from the outside and will be either missing a lot they don't know about or is manufacturing their own truth to meet their opions.

      • chichi on 01/08/2024 - 13:36
        +3

        Clearly you know absolutely nothing about getting a diagnosis let alone the NDIS.

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 31/07/2024 - 19:08

    Plastics

    I often think all those times I microwaved the hell out of my left over siu mai, har gow, 馬拉糕 etc from Saturday yum cha in the take away container if it was actually releasing toxins into that delicious delicious left overs. Hang on - what if that WAS the reason it tasted so good after waking up hungover on Sunday at 3pm 🤔

    • follow on 31/07/2024 - 19:41
      +2

      I think that too sometimes haha. Midway through eating a steaming microwaved meal, I swear to myself next time I'm in IKEA, I'll replace it all with borosilicate glass. Still haven't gotten around to it.

  • Benoffie on 31/07/2024 - 19:11
    +14

    I just dont know if I should even bother.

    As an autistic individual in their middle age, and only recently diagnosed (2017), that benefit was only afforded to me as it became a recognised reality in 1994 (after I was born) and even then women (and high IQ at that) struggle to gain diagnosis.

    It has always existed. Autism is genetic. Any diagnosis where it pops up out of the blue is either a) a rarity or b) attempting to shoe horn something else into the NDIS because that system is just crp. An example is my nephew who is not autistic is diagnosed as being autistic because the NDIS didnt know how to classify his actual diagnosis of a rare chromosomal deletion disorder. The recorded traits of that disorder present similar to autism ergo….

    Not only does this type of essentially governmental mismanagement cause issues for individuals who are labelled incorrectly and cannot correctly own and live with their actual disability but it grossly skews statistics in both cases which impacts funding.

    Actually autistic people (there's even a whole hashtag for it) dont want this stuff happening. They dont support it and see it as a watering down of their community.

    In terms of historical prevalence, in my own family, I have enough solid evidence to show multiple generations being autistic (at least back to the mid 1800s). WW2 RAF reports on my grandfather very clearly articulate what we would have previously called Asperger's and now call Autism. I dont believe the actual brain divergence rate has altered significantly over time.

  • ForkSnorter on 31/07/2024 - 19:25
    +17

    When I speak with individuals aged 80 and above

    That is a real scientific investigation you’ve conducted there. Who needs data when we can count on you to ask some 85-year-olds?

    I've observed that many families…

    Continuing the scientific approach, I see.

    In my opinion…

    Excellent. Who needs facts when we’ve got opinions?

    • rumblytangara on 31/07/2024 - 19:28
      +4

      Someone else in the thread dug up OP's rant about PTFEs. I think this is a second round a windmill-tilting.

  • punkindrublic on 31/07/2024 - 19:26
    +1

    For autism, my suspicion is that the guidelines for diagnosis have become significantly looser in recent years. The incentives to get diagnosed have also increased because of the NDIS. If your child is ASD Level 2 or above they're eligible for support payments - you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that there's a financial support incentive for parents that get a diagnosis, while medical practitioners would be pressured to just give in and upgrade a Level 1 ASD (with no support) to Level 2 (with support).

    I'm sure that in this mix there's children and adults who weren't diagnosed under the earlier regime, so it's not all terrible. But I suspect there is overdiagnosis at play, just like how ADHD was overdiagnosed in the 90s and early 2000s.

    • BLDM on 01/08/2024 - 09:06
      +9

      NDIS do not offer “support payments” to parents…it pays for necessary therapies and support for the child who has been diagnosed. We do not get extra money thrown into our account for the fun of it, payments are reimbursements for what we have already had to pay out for our child, for anything a parent of a neurotypical child would not have to pay for. My son gets his speech therapy, occupational therapy, psychology and physiotherapy paid for, that’s it. Also, ASD level 1 can be accepted onto NDIS, depending on the level of support the child needs. I know people who have been.

      • punkindrublic on 01/08/2024 - 10:03
        +1

        By being reimbursed for your child's treatment, the NDIS is giving you support payments - we're not disagreeing on this. I never said it was a bonanza of free money to spend on whatever someone wants. It has to be connected to the condition justifying inclusion in the scheme.

        • BLDM on 01/08/2024 - 13:05
          +3

          Exactly, however Your post implied people are making up diagnosis in order to get “free money” from the NDIS. I’m just saying that is not the case. Why would anyone want to get paid for services they don’t need?

          • trapper on 01/08/2024 - 16:16

            @BLDM: A free support worker doubles as free babysitter too.

            • JakeyJooJoo on 01/08/2024 - 16:42

              @trapper: You just trying to be a dick? People aren't jumping through all those hoops, just to have someone to treat their kid for 30-60 minutes a week.

            • BLDM on 01/08/2024 - 17:33

              @trapper: @trapper
              Actually, support workers are usually only approved for older children. The ones who are young enough to need “babysitters” generally only get “early intervention” funding which is all therapy based. My son is a teenager now and his pediatrician has been on me about getting him funding for a support worker but as Jakey said, the amount of crap you need to go through is just not worth the effort so I haven’t bothered. As I said, NDIS is NOT free money it’s reimbursement for all the extra stuff we have to pay for caused by the disability, and it’s usually a massive fight to even get that. So many people on here commenting and complaining about a system they know nothing about, it’s ridiculous.

        • SupeNintendoChalmers on 01/08/2024 - 14:10
          +1

          No, totally incorrect. Before NDIS, there were literally dozens of programs providing support funding to people for disabilities across Australian states.

          NDIS basically did away with them all to make it a one stop shop. Whether this 'one stop shop' implementation and running has been a success or failure is another story.

  • brad1-8tsi on 31/07/2024 - 20:01
    +10

    When I speak with individuals aged 80 and above, they recall that there was typically one person in their village with Down syndrome,

    That's because they died or were squirreled away into an institution for their whole life.

    • Benoffie on 31/07/2024 - 21:35

      For example, the Strathmont Centre, Minda etc in Adelaide. Now all pushed out to families and community care models.

      • banana365 on 01/08/2024 - 13:17
        +2

        When I was younger (nearly 40 years ago), the son of a family friend had severe autism. The residential care facility he lived in had an open day and we went along to show support. My god that was eye opening! The open day was an attempt to break out of the "out of sight, out of mind" approach that had been the norm for decades (centuries?). People of all types of divergent behaviours have always existed, hiding them away is now in almost all cases, thankfully, not acceptable.

  • jv on 31/07/2024 - 20:09
    +3

    I've observed that many families have at least one child on the autism spectrum

    Where did you observe that?

    • kobeduck on 01/08/2024 - 08:11
      +1

      Tik tok

  • JimmyF on 31/07/2024 - 20:15
    +5

    When I speak with individuals aged 80 and above, they recall that there was typically one person in their village with Down syndrome

    Back then, if you had a child with Autism or Down Syndrome it was often hidden away from everyone or even given up.

    But using that view, you also didn't see teenage mothers or even unmarried mothers that often either. As we all knew what it meant when a girl went to stay with a 'relative' for the summer or winter before returning.

    Societys views and acceptance on these topics have changed lots.

    • banana365 on 01/08/2024 - 13:21
      +1

      It's similar to disability access laws. If you make an environment more accessible to a class of people previously excluded, you're going to see more.
      "Can't get up stairs in my wheelchair? Might as well not go out. " is similar to "Can't cope with loud noises, lights etc? Might as well not go out."

      Visibility increases as the environment becomes more inclusive, but the numbers stay pretty much the same.

    • JakeyJooJoo on 01/08/2024 - 16:49

      Yes, however people with ASD or ADHD that had low-mid range support needs weren't squirreled away. They were instead physically / emotionally beaten into conforming out of being their true self, and were then labelled as 'quirky'.

      • JimmyF on 01/08/2024 - 17:14

        They were instead physically / emotionally beaten into conforming out of being their true self

        And how are they doing today? Are they conforming well with life?

        • JakeyJooJoo on 01/08/2024 - 18:05

          Yeah the ones I know have conformed, can't speculate on what's going on in their heads, but mixed bag re external happiness levels . The one I know best has had a much harder life than it could have been. 2 siblings suicided in their early 20s which (profanity) them up, they never got over it. That may seem unrelated, but ND is genetic, and historically ND people suffer from depression at a much greater rate.

          I'm not aware of any research into the cause of depression in ND people, but would hazard a guess it's the way they are treated. Lots of emotions about feeling like the odd one out, not accepted, made to feel not good enough etc.

          Seems reasonable to think there's a correlation with all of that..
          Suppose I should have lead with "Yeah, the ones that survived seem to have conformed"

  • TightLikeThisx on 31/07/2024 - 20:51
    +1

    When I speak with individuals aged 80 and above, they recall that there was typically one person in their village with Down syndrome, known by everyone, and they were treated just like everyone else, leading a normal life.

    Maybe it's because they grew up in villages not cities.

  • michaelTito on 31/07/2024 - 21:15

    Yeah I agree. We got a few of them in our discord channel.

  • Ughhh on 31/07/2024 - 21:18
    +10

    If you go back a couple hundred years ago, or in third world countries/villages now, there's probably 0% DS, autism etc. But lots of witches and possessed people.

  • belongsinforums on 31/07/2024 - 21:57
    +2

    I was speaking to a 6 month old about the state of the economy and why McDonald's changed from their colourful aesthetic to brown tones. According to her, it never used to be like that back in the day. What is happening in this world? Coincidence? Maybe it's the fluoride in my tap water?

  • FlyingMiffy on 31/07/2024 - 22:04
    +5

    Are you sure its not just a matter of improved awareness and/or better understanding of what autism is?

    • Lurk Hartog on 01/08/2024 - 08:45
      +1

      Yes. As an example, Australia's ASD rate sky-rocketed relative to other similar countries only after the introduction of the NDIS.

      https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/australia-s-record-high…

      • banana365 on 01/08/2024 - 15:10
        +2

        One aspect of this is the difficulty and cost (time and money) in getting an ASD diagnosis. It is most definitely not an easy or cheap process. If there is little or nothing to be gained from getting the diagnosis, why put yourself or your family member through it? NDIS definitely influenced the rate of diagnosed ASD individuals, but the fact that there was now a greater incentive go through the process definitely plays a significant part.

    • shaiguy on 01/08/2024 - 10:46
      +3

      This x 100%

      Given I know people with autism, I have undertaken a lot of research into autism and neuro-diversity. In developed countries with diagnosis, etc. it is found that the rate of autism is about 1 in 30 people. Now if you think about back at school, etc. there was always a kid who was different in class (usually the bullied one), etc. All of them are different but there are also commonalities as well.

      In a way, knowing and meeting people who are autistic or other neuro-diverse has really opened my mind to becoming more understanding of people. We all have our own nuances, etc. and are built differently - whether physially or how our brain/mind works, etc. and I think people should be more accepting of this.

  • GrueHunter on 31/07/2024 - 22:11
    +3

    many families have at least one child on the autism spectrum, and some even have two, despite the parents being unrelated

    what

    • infinite on 31/07/2024 - 23:18

      It's very common for couples who both have real clinical diagnosed autism/asperger's, to give birth to children with the same (if not worse) incurable mental health conditions.

      It's extremely uncommon however for re-married couples to have multiple kids not related by blood legitimately on the spectrum.

        • infinite on 01/08/2024 - 20:27

          It's not a rumour, ASD is caused by defective genes and it's a genetically inheritable trait. What they can't currently do though is identify and diagnose the exact genes that cause the problems prior to birth, so that like with down syndrome and other life-altering mental handicaps, potential parents can have a far more informed choice to help decide if they wish to abort the baby in the first trimester.

          It's also a strange gene in that if a woman with any of those related defective genes gives birth to a child with ASD, it then statistically means every additional child they give birth too after that first one will have an increasing percent more likely chance to be born with it again, than the last sibling had. If the father of those children also suffers from ASD, then the likelyhood of that percentage of the child suffering from the same fate, if not even more severely, will sky-rocket.

          https://health.clevelandclinic.org/are-siblings-at-greater-r…

          Before jumping into a topic this complex, let’s make sure we’re on the same page. You’ve probably heard genetics, heritability and inheritability discussed like they’re interchangeable, but that’s not actually right.

          The genes we get directly from our biological parents and grandparents — like our eye or hair color — are inherited.
          Heritable traits are not genetic. They’re things like habits, skills or behaviors that we often share with our relatives. They’re there, but they aren’t encoded in our DNA.

          When it comes to the genetics of ASD, we’re mostly talking about inheritable traits — a single gene or collection of genes that impact a child’s development.

          To make things even more complicated, there are many causes of autism that are genetic but not inherited — meaning that there’s a change in a child’s genes that’s new and not seen in their parents. These genetic causes of autism are more likely to impact a single gene or single region of a chromosome.

        • CurlCurl on 01/08/2024 - 22:11

          I have heard of this rumour, especially with Bill Gates and the video of him rocking in the chair, but never saw the science behind it.

          He's just getting old.

    • caitsith01 on 01/08/2024 - 09:10
      +1

      Yes, OP seems to think incest causes autism amongst many insane things.

        • caitsith01 on 01/08/2024 - 09:57
          +3

          Autism just doesn't work like that. I don't know where this is even coming from.

      • infinite on 01/08/2024 - 20:36

        Incest absolutely does cause ASD and other related mental handicaps.

        Here's a peer-reviewed academic study describing how incest directly and indirectly causes it: https://academicjournals.org/journal/JPHE/article-full-text/… - spoiler alert, it's caused by damaging your genetics.

        Here's another study that shows how incest causes ASD on a genetic level (Leavitt G (2003). Incest/Inbreeding taboos. International Encyclopedia of Marriage and Family) - https://family.jrank.org/pages/854/Incest-Inbreeding-Taboos-…

        Not exactly fun reading material, but it will leave you informed however. To deny that incest causes ASD, is to directly deny decades old and well established scientific fact.

        • GrueHunter on 02/08/2024 - 19:54

          Incest causes a wide range of disorders.

          My question is why OP came in with both incest guns blazing, as though this somehow could have been a key driving factor of ASD diagnosis levels across the world, and he's gobsmacked that it actually isn't.

          It's like somebody says "Yeah, my kid has Aspergers" and he's shocked, shocked I say, that they didn't marry their sister.

  • BewareOfThe Dog on 31/07/2024 - 22:44
    +2

    Are you related to your partner and or over 40?

  • infinite on 31/07/2024 - 23:14
    -6

    The only real cause for the rate of Autism diagnosis increasing, is the floor completely falling out from the base of clinical diagnosis testing in terms of of detail, time and analysis going in to a medical professional giving you a recognised clinical diagnosis.

    The testing and consideration used to be complex, it took a fair period of time, multiple consults with multiple specialist professionals and those people worked as a team to discuss what if any diagnosis would be made. Now all it takes is an unqualified volunteer councillor to fill in a series of questions not even 1 page long and submit it to your GP, who will "affirm your/their opinion" of having Autism. That's literally it. If you want the associated drugs that pair with the diagnosis, you can book a $300 visit to a psychiatrist and they'll hook you up with the drugs themselves or get your GP to do it. Literally as easy as that. You as the patient can pre-fill a list of checkboxes on a publicly available assessment form via a phone call or e-mail with one of hundreds of "advocacy groups" for the psych to review in advance & they'll hand over the uppers, downers or whatever your after, so long as chemists have stock.

    Drugs are all on the taxpayer dime as well. It's an unbelievable rort and most people coming in are clearly doing it for only one of a few actual reasons:
    - The protected victim status it affords you in the public service, rendering it almost impossible to ever get fired no matter how incompetent you are & the added gift of unlimited "mental health leave".
    - Parents who don't have any capacity or interest in disciplining their obviously normal healthy active kids, so wanna dump them on drugs so they can lead a more outgoing lifestyle again.
    - Man-children incapable of returning to a workplace and socialising, who'd rather turn themselves into incapacitated zombies via medication.
    - Prescription drug addicts.
    - Prescription drug dealers.

    The worst part is that the tiny percent of people who really actually need the help, need the clinical advice & may in the worst case need medication - they have to wait months for access to anyone who is actually qualified to do the process professionally and then the drugs they may end up needing are forever in limited or no supply.

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