No. I'm not a landlord, landlord hater or a tenant.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-25/should-heating-and-co…
Heating and Cooling Be Mandatory for Rentals? This May Cost Landlords Money
CurlCurl on 26/07/2024 - 00:31
Comments
Renters will pay for heating and cooling regardless. But this way they will pay less. If renters could buy split systems themselves and take them with them to all the rentals they'll have over their lives, they would. But they can't because they need to be installed in and through walls. If all rental properties had split systems then it would be the same difference, the life cost of the split system would be spread over 15 years or whatever. If every rental property had split systems and the actual cost of them was passed on to renters, then it would be as if renters did have their own and took them with them to every different rental they had. Renters would save money compared to using standard electrical heaters or trying to run inefficient single hose portable coolers.
the life cost of the split system would be spread over 15 years or whatever.
Nah, most property owners would increase the rent to recoup the cost over the first couple of years.
Maybe initially with some of the landlords who don't rent it like a real profession. Over time it'll be a predictable cost, if they tend to last about 15 years or whatever. Will probably make property investors more money, if they pass on the actual cost of the units then it would cost them nothing, but renters would be paying less for heating and cooling compared to portable ACs and inefficient heaters. Which means more money to save for an investment properties of their own which pumps up house prices, or just have more money to spend on rent. Unless the housing bubble was popped, but c'mon, does anyone end a Ponzi scheme when it's making you money, you only end it right as you're about to be caught. And if everyone with power is in on the scheme and profiting from it, the housing bubble may never get "caught". Just deflated a little every now and then to make sure it doesn't pop.
That presumes that landlords could be charging more now, but are holding back.
It's fallacious reasoning.
Renters will just end up paying…
If a renter rented my home without the aircon at $X rate then demanded I added air conditioning, the rent would also increase by $X rate - that’s just how it works..
The problem is we also have landlords jacking up rents in line with "market prices" all over the place with zero improvements being done.
I'd be fine with passing on costs to tenants if landlords were also restricted in raising rents above cost of living unless there was a material improvement to the property. Instead they tend to want it both ways.
The market dictates it both ways. The market price goes up as amenities go up.
The market price can also go up independently of that as the value of housing goes up or as demand for housing goes up. That's not having it both ways.
Leave it all to the market and it'll sort itself out.
Wait a sec, you would increase the rent from $X to ($X + $X) ? Doubling the rent seems a bit extreme….
Government imposts do not hurt landlords or corporations, they hurt tenants and customers. I suspect that may be the whole point.
I suspect that may be the whole point.
?? And the point of that being what?
I suspect that there are more voters who rent than are landlords.So the whole point of good government is merely to 'get votes'?
Sadly I suspect you are probably right on that score.
But no, that wasn't what I was thinking.
So the whole point of good government is merely to 'get votes'?
No, it's to benefit their constituents with positive, progressive change. As evidenced.
@ThithLord: By forcing their rent up?
Reminds me of the old axiom: "Government, if you think the problems we cause are bad, wait till you see our solutions."
Where is that gas cooker in the lounge and brick guy when you need him right
rip
Yeah I think it should be mandatory, places that don't have this are shit. Same with making things like flyscreen mandatory. I'm a landlord and all of this stuff is just basic stuff you should be doing. I've had thing improved at no cost to tenant before.
Also (profanity) all the people here who say as landlords they'd just increase the prices by whatever it costs. If the request is reasonable there's no reason to increase the rent. Just reflects a real lazy and shitty attitude.
Just reflects a real lazy and shitty attitude.
New to OzBargain, mate?
Been around longer than yourself.
Still happy to call out crap behaviour. Just because it happens doesn't mean it should be accepted as fine.
'Twas a friendly jibe, fren
Next thing renters are going to be expecting four walls and a roof. It's only going to drive rents up. /sarcasm
luxury. I rented a tent on the top of a hill once.
it did include a poop hole shovel at least.
It used to be if you wanted a rental with air-conditioning you paid more for it. If you couldn't afford the extra you got a rental without it. Now renters will have no choice but to pay extra for something they don't want.
Stretch
People need heating and cooling. They also need houses with proper insulation.
They should mandate this for all houses then, not just rentals.
People renting can’t put these in for themselves in Australia. It is different overseas where there can be long term rental agreements and a deal is made with the landlord. There are government rebates for owners to put in energy efficient systems like hot water systems, solar panels etc. They tried with insulation, which would be a great idea, but installation cowboys created dangerous situations so it was dropped. It is a great pity this happened because it is a great passive way to provide a more regulated temperature in the dwelling.
@try2bhelpful: If my tenant said they want a 5 or 10 year lease with CPI increases, I'd be happy with that.
I think there are too many cowboys already with government subsidised solar panels & split systems.
In particular with split systems, I should be able to choose my own retailer and installer, submit the evidence it's been installed correctly and then be able to claim any rebates. But in the real world the gross cost is higher to install a cheap Chinese brand split system from the approved installers.
@try2bhelpful: People renting were always free to pay more to rent a place that has such things. Now they'll be paying more for these things whether they want them or not.
need is a strong word.
With sub-zero Winters and 40°C + Summers… yes, people absolutely do need well insulated places with heating and cooling.
Actually it might make those places cheaper. Because they can't legitimately be rented out, they have to be rented out illegitimately, often at a big discount.
lol @ thinking this will cost landlords anything… they will cry like it cost them money and how they are the poorest class of humans, but the truth is, it will barely make a blip in their finances and if anything, they will just shoulder the burden onto renters and the tax payers.
It’s time we started burning landlords for heating… in fire pits, along with their heat bricks they gave us to use with our “free gas”.
Considering a lot of investment properties are negative geared, the costs of installing heating and cooling if it currently doesn’t exist is marginal compared to all the other costs - loan repayments, rates, insurance, land tax, utilities etc.
The % of investment properties not having heating and cooling would be very small.
You make it sound like negative gearing is free money.
The opposite. I was implying the costs associated with negative gearing makes a split system purchase marginal
I wouldn't say $5-8,000 (typical costs for 3 head multi-split) is marginal.
Split systems are depreciated over a 10 year period.
@JimB: Only need to install one split system in main living room. Most landlords will buy the cheapest one
This is already a minimum standard in Vic (and some other states I believe). I think it's totally fair in this age for A/C and heating to be mandated, especially with the poor insulation in builds.
Where does the cost get allocated? Well it's a once off write off for anyone negatively gearing - but with a median rental of $550 per week, rents in Victoria are going up much much more based on other market factors.
The cost of installing a single cheap split system is almost insignificant in real terms (compared to rent), especially when the rebates come into play.
It's not a once off write off.
Split systems are depreciated over a 10 year period.
Ah good call
If the cost is insignificant, why can't renters fund it? Most landlords would be ok with AC being installed by a professional at the renters cost.
To be clear what you're quoting…
insignificant in real terms (compared to rent)
Of course a landlord would be happy to get a free upgrade to their property - doesn't make it fair though
Why is it not fair that if someone wants something extra, they should contribute to the cost. If the landlord doesn't have their own AC would it be fair to ask the renter to pay for it?
Also the landlord would be responsible for any future breakdowns once it is installed so it adds potential future costs.
Most of the problems actually come from lack of passive stuff like insulation, draft proofing, blinds and also checking for air gaps. If landlords care a little they'd do those first.
Reverse cycle air conditioners are actually quite effective if you put all the above in.
But then most people just pay the most they can afford for a property and leaving them with no money for improvements. So basically they've capitalised everything into the price of the property.
Tenants also need to look at what they are renting. Like an apartment surrounded by other apartments would be warmer than side of the buildings. Just like town houses would be better than units.
There is a podcast on ABC and an architectural professor from Germany living in Australia was talking about why it is so bad here. Interesting listen.
"Most of the problems actually come from lack of passive stuff like insulation, draft proofing, blinds and also checking for air gaps. If landlords care a little they'd do those first."
Homes built earlier than the 70s didn't have wall insulation.
People who own and live in these homes can't afford to insulate it themselves so I no wonder landlords aren't going to pay to for proper insulation.
But I do think ceiling insulation should be mandatory.
You're correct, Given the cost of properties and the cost to retain the properties, most landlords can't afford to improve their properties.
Homes built earlier than the 70s didn't have wall insulation
This really depends. In the UK a lot of houses are solid plaster over brick to get the smooth finish and for insulation to happen they put wall insulation over (create like a frame then plasterboard and it is like $10k to do a house (about 130m2 floor space 2 stories).
It is possible just like having secondary glazing (you can do it yourself with some Perspex and timber) as a student I blutac opaque paint drop sheets over the windows to avoid heat loss and it did wonders.
Unfortunately everything costs so much more in Australia when it comes to trades.
The costs to install double glazed windows in Australia is 2-3 times the costs in the UK.
DIY secondary glazing is great if you can DIY. I heard you can use bubble wrap directly on glass.
What about old houses that are slated for development and will be demolished shortly. There's plenty of people who are happy to rent these for a bargain price due to the trade offs.
Cheap source of trouble if they report you to the government.
Government doesn't like exceptions.
In Vic, you need to get an electrical and gas safety certificate when renting the house (and every 2 years thereafter).
If it's old and slated for demolition, it's more hassle than it's worth to rent it out.
If you have an written agreement with the tenants, the tenants who would agree to live in old house to be demolished may also be difficult to evict.
@outlander: Not to mitigate the landlord's responsibility but surely the tenants would know it is an utter shithole before moving in.
87 Kellett Street, Northcote has since sold $1,265,000
There are a few things that should be regulated by the government, and imho this is one of them. Given build quality of modern places makes them about as thermally stable as a tent, aircon is a basic necessity.
Wear a jumper. Buy a fan from Bunnings. Problem solved renters so entitled.
Front door and running water Be Mandatory for Rentals? This May Cost Landlords Money
It won't cost landlords money (at least not in the long term), it will cost renters money
Yeah maybe, split systems aren't very expensive to install and lots of (possibly most) rentals already have them.
Does this apply to places with a very even climate throughout the year that doesn't usually require heating or cooling? Where insulation alone would be sufficient?
Poor renters cannot afford the electricity to cool/heat their place of residence anyway. Electricity is now a luxury good thanks to the affluent virtue-signalling eco-fundamentalists who are waging class warfare on 'Struggle Street'. 30 years ago, when everything was coal generated and it's generation and grid wasn't outsourced, electricity was cheap.
The costs of installing them will be negatively geared and the tax payers will be paying for it by way of lost taxes going into other areas
Just like every other investment property cost
They'll just increase rent prices…