Are ADAS - Advanced Driver Assistance Systems - a bargain for car buyers? Mostly no

GordonD on 12/07/2024 - 09:28
Last edited 12/07/2024 - 10:34 by 1 other user

A study from the US's Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has looked at whether ADAS actually works.

And they've found that mostly they have resulted in no reduction in crashes. Blind spot monitors. Lane keeping assistance. Their potential to reduces crashes doesn't translate into any actual reduction.

The exception is forward collision warning with automatic emergency braking which produced an 8-13% reduction in crashes, depending on the model.

So the safety regulators punish vehicle manufacturers with poor vehicle safety ratings unless they fit the various ADAS devices as standard, meaning car buyers have to pay for them, and they don't work. They push up the price of cars with bringing down the subsequent cost of crashes and insurance.

Automotive ADAS

Comments

  • hmac on 12/07/2024 - 09:35
    +31

    There is so much missing here. Which age group and experience group has the most crashes? What kind of cars do they drive? Do you think most of them can afford to buy new cars with these features.

    All of these studies are flawed unless conducted properly. It's a news article lol

    • SBOB on 12/07/2024 - 10:06
      +14

      yeah, but its a news article that aligns with existing beliefs, so it must be accurate and conclusive

      • this is us on 12/07/2024 - 10:36
        +5

        Some people might not understand the sarcasm there…

    • supersabroso on 14/07/2024 - 02:55

      I disagree with OP, my new Haval H6 is the best. All those features like lane keep assist, side door open alerts, blind spot monitoring etc. keep you safe and will save you more money in accidents than you pay for with the car.

  • nubix on 12/07/2024 - 09:39
    +12

    ADAS has been the absolute worst thing about owning a BYD. They've lots of the annoying beeps all the time, but there was one night where the emergency braking triggered 3 times and jammed the brakes for no reason at all :/

    • pegaxs on 12/07/2024 - 10:19
      +5

      OMG, can confirm… JFC car, calm down… Always beeping for one thing or another. It gets to a point where you end up ignoring it. A lot like the "boy who cried wolf".

      I've heard that the Seal is worse than the Atto and that in the Seal, to get rid of half of the annoying beeps and the car trying to take over, you have to start removing fuses. Safety systems in cars should be passive and not annoying to the point where people want to disable them.

    • this is us on 12/07/2024 - 11:23

      The (two) most recent updates for the Seal have pretty made the beeps inaudible.

      I also had the phantom braking twice, and still can't understand the reason. There is a lot for them to improve as BYDs systems are still immature, particularly when compared to BMW, Mercedes, Volvo.

    • Drakesy on 12/07/2024 - 13:52
      +4

      It's not just BYD, it's pretty much every new car.

      They all have beeps and messages that pop up causing more of a distraction.

      • cloudy on 12/07/2024 - 14:02

        This isn't true.

        I recently got the e 2008, and one reason I went with it is cause the ADA is so subtle compared to all others. The warnings on my dash are coloured but not smack in the face, the steering wheeling adjustments are absolute last resort with my lane keeping, almost touching the lines before it wants to take action and no annoying beeps.

        It was actually one of my requirements with new cars that I don't have so many distractions, as someone who has only driven an old car and do all the sensible checks I didn't want stupid confusing distractions and surprisingly this dumb 2008 is perfect for me, I don't have to go through the start car routine some people do of finding the settings and turn off all the ADAs.

        But to be fair, my car can't remotely do this and that etc etc…but I'm happier overall this way.

        So not all new cars are like this…

      • pegaxs on 12/07/2024 - 14:32
        +3

        Wife’s car (‘19 Corolla) literally makes no sounds. It doesn’t rip the steering wheel from your hands. You can disable shit without the need to turn it off every time you turn the key. It is so passive, you would hardly even know the car has these features apart from reading about it when we perched the car…

        My BYD… JFC! Shut up already. A chime for this, a voice over for that, a flashing light and alarm warning for this… even with LKA turned off, it will still try and grab the steering wheel from my hand if I need to pass a badly parked car or someone waiting to turn… 1km/h over the limit, there’s a beep for that. And it mutes everything else in the car.

        So, no, not all new cars. Our Toyota shows up how these systems should be…

        • Drakesy on 12/07/2024 - 15:11
          +1

          Byd is a 22 car, a lot of systems were mandated over the 3 years which changed everything. The Corolla is technically a 2018 design as well.

          Pretty much all the 2021+ cars are irritatingly loud now, not just the BYD. Trust me i've driven a fair few + have the BYD for work.

          Agree though that the BYD does drive me bonkers.

        • May4th on 13/07/2024 - 12:11

          i have a 2022 kluger, same irritating cacophany of noises and flashes

      • Benno007 on 13/07/2024 - 09:31
        +3

        Yup, just got a new 2024 Kona. I turn off speed limit warnings /alarms every time I start the car. I turn off driver attention warning too. It alerts you for shit that is completely wrong too.

        The driver attention warning goes off on long roundabouts because the steering wheel is blocking it. Or just while I’m looking directly ahead at random. The micro distraction it causes constantly is surely worse than any supposed benefits.

        I’m driving straight through a roundabout, on this road the speed limit is 50kph. But as I’m going it detects a 60kph speed sign down the left street and changes the speed limit to be 60kph. Not to mention school zones alerting on weekends, turning right in a double right hand turn elicits shudders and alarms as though you’re going to run into someone- my approach to counter this has been to stop indicating, or go in the far right lane. It even alerts you if you drive into the shade of a tree on a sunny day that the headlights are off. It’s mind boggling how stupid it actually is

    • plmko on 12/07/2024 - 21:25

      Yeah BYD is fairly horrendous. When I had one it used to lock the brakes when driving into the garage thinking I was going to hit a wall. Same would occur when someone would be spotting you in to a parking space, it would think you were going to reverse into someone and again lock the brakes.

    • Dsiee on 14/07/2024 - 10:26
      +2

      Work got a new Toyota and it is far worse than the BYDs I've driven. Constantly tries to follow turn off lanes into oncoming traffic or throw the car around whenever markings disappear or reappear. Maybe it is because it is a corolla but it did make me think that it isn't just "new" brands but just the state of affairs atm.

  • barge-in hunter on 12/07/2024 - 09:44
    +1

    The exception forward collision warning with automatic emergency braking which produced an 8-13% reduction in crashes, depending on the model.

    Many of the other safety features require the basic technology behind this. Eg, "Lane keeping assistance" is a feature that requires a computer monitoring the position of the car (and other traffic) on the road - almost all of which is required to power AEB.

    In any case, it's also ignoring the trend that drivers are paying less and less attention to the road as time goes on - notifications constantly pinging from TikTok, Facebook, Slack, Instagram etc grabbing people's attention away from the road.

    Without seeing the original study (because the "news" article you linked doesn't even include a link to the source) I would argue that these features are probably balancing out the reducing attention levels of drivers. Are the metrics moving? No - but in a changing world, that's a good thing

    • banana365 on 13/07/2024 - 11:44

      That's along the lines of what I was thinking, but with the inattention being a direct result of ADAS rather than coincidentally compensating for inattentiveness. Risk compensation (not a great article, but gives the concept) is a known problem with safety systems. Early ABS studies with Munich taxi drivers where some drivers were told about the newly fitted ABS and others weren't showed that those who knew took greater risks (mainly late braking) and those who didn't know drove as normal. Knowing negated benefits.

  • randomusername2017 on 12/07/2024 - 09:46
    +5

    Another Day Another System

  • MS Paint on 12/07/2024 - 10:10
    +8

    And they've found that mostly they have result in no reduction in crashes.

    It has just created more distractions and lazy drivers IMHO.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/07/2024 - 10:20
    +4

    ADAS causes more distraction than the distraction.

  • coffeeinmyveins on 12/07/2024 - 10:25
    -5

    And they've found that mostly they have result in no reduction in crashes.

    And? So? That's not the point of a feature like blind spot monitoring.

    Instead of having to turn your head to visually check your blind spot from the mirror you have a tool that helps you. It's not meant to prevent crashes, it's a quality of life improvement.

    I love the ADAS features of my car.

    • zoob on 12/07/2024 - 12:53
      +9

      The worry is that you're not checking your blind spots because of your misplaced faith in technology.

    • MS Paint on 12/07/2024 - 13:20
      +9

      FFS your still meant to check your blind spot with a head turn. It's an assistance feature. FFS.

      • spackbace on 12/07/2024 - 13:21
        +8

        *you're

        • MS Paint on 12/07/2024 - 13:21
          +8

          FFS.

        • LFO on 13/07/2024 - 11:08
          +2

          *you're

          Beep buzz beep - spellchecker warning - buzz beep buzz

      • Ford Prefect on 13/07/2024 - 18:49

        The whole notion of a blind spot is absurd, and there is literally no need to perform a head-check if the side mirrors are set correctly.

        Race car drivers mostly cannot perform head-checks. Even if they had the time, head movement is retarded by the HANS device and, in the case of Formula One for example, the side view from the cockpit is obstructed anyway. And yet, they are not in the least bit hampered by a blind spot.

        Do as race car drivers do; set your side mirrors all the way out, such that you can't see the side of your car (why would you want to do that, anyway?) And, just like magic, no more blind spot.

        • MS Paint on 13/07/2024 - 19:20

          It's not always about cars and head checks are required to be performed to get your license in Victoria.

        • [Deactivated] on 18/07/2024 - 09:34
          +1

          Well, not seeing your own car has a few issues 1. Parking into tight spots (good luck) 2. There will still be blind spots, just at a different location.

          I guess that explains why people think they drive like Hamilton on the public road? Even if one drives like Hamilton, best to assume others on the road don't drive like him. Well, because they don't.

          Particularly with modern cars which the windows on both side are tiny. The combination of head turning and utilising BSM is critical.

    • OzzyOzbourne on 13/07/2024 - 23:36

      Wtf?

  • djones145 on 12/07/2024 - 10:28
    +1

    Researchers looked at crash records and insurance data for BMW and Nissan vehicles equipped with so-called advanced driver assistance systems to determine if they helped avoid crashes

    they should have done research on whether bmw drivers use their indicators or not.

    • mafmouf on 13/07/2024 - 22:34

      The indicators were never fitted as per owners request.

  • pegaxs on 12/07/2024 - 10:34
    +8

    A bit disappointed that this thread is almost an hour old and not one person has chimed in with the "back in my day, we didn't even have to wear seat belts, and no body died back then…" or "the reason people are dying is because cars are made out of plastic… back in my day, cars were made out of steel and never bent in a crash…" nuggets…

    My issue with these systems is that it makes lazy drivers or ambivalent/ignorant drivers. I have see too many people make stupid decisions in traffic because of a light or lack of a light, a chime or lack of a chime to give them that confidence pat on the back to take that next step. I have seen so many [REDACTED] drivers not even look around when reversing and just look at the reverse camera display, oblivious to cars and/or people approaching from the sides.

    Over stimulation leads to warning fatigue. It works on the "boy who cried wolf" principle. It gets to a point where a driver has heard so many false alarms that by the time a real alarm sounds, it gets ignored or goes unprocessed in the drivers brain.

    So, while I think these systems are good to have in cars, I welcome them, the fact remains is that they need to be way more passive. Stop trying to jerk the steering wheel out of my hand if I need to dodge a turning car or lycra clad road roach. Stop yelling at me if 3 metres after the 60 sign, I'm still doing 63, but still slowing down. I don't need an "IMMINENT CRASH!!!" warning every time I go around a bend in a residential street where cars are parked on the bend.

    Added to all of this, I dont think companies like Tesla should be allowed to call their system "Autopilot" when it quite clearly isnt and should never have the amount of autonomy that it has. This gives people the presumption that they can just tune out and let the car take over. I just dont know how they have gotten away with calling it "Autopilot" for so long, but at least some countries are knocking this misinformation bullshit on the head.

    • dtc on 12/07/2024 - 11:38
      +2

      does assistance make lazy drivers, or are drivers getting more lazy anyway and the assistance is mitigating the consequences?

      • SBOB on 12/07/2024 - 12:18
        +2

        I dont think assistance 'makes' lazy/poor drivers, but just gives them an excuse/safety net/band aid to mask their lack of attention and poor driving

        Items like adaptive cruise control, and forward collision warning/AEB generally make all drivers safer when used.
        The ones like speed zone detection and nuisance dings every 10s are the issue with poorly implemented ADAS

    • xylarr on 13/07/2024 - 10:49
      +1

      I agree completely that it's probably people who just need to "drive better".

      "The car keeps tugging at the steering wheel, my old car never did that", says someone who has never been called out on their terrible basic lane keeping skills.

    • ssfps on 14/07/2024 - 00:26

      These are good points, but i also think they should be able to be completely disabled and have that setting stored in firmware.

  • brownsound on 12/07/2024 - 10:43
    +7

    Works well when something off the road distracts drivers for a touch longer than usual and the car in front slows down suddenly. Ask me how i know ;)

    • Ozbar Gain on 12/07/2024 - 13:04

      How do you know?

  • CurlCurl on 12/07/2024 - 11:21
    -3

    The exception is forward collision warning with automatic emergency braking

    First thing I do after starting the car is turn the above OFF.

  • Drakesy on 12/07/2024 - 11:26
    -1

    ANCAP bigwigs burying their head in the sand.

    BUT It'S ThERe fOr SAfetY
    REEEEEEEEEEEEEE1.

    If anything all the ones on my car are distractions and i turn them off as soon as i get in (lane keeping etc.)

  • jv on 12/07/2024 - 12:15

    Mostly no

  • try2bhelpful on 12/07/2024 - 12:40

    I would like a reversing camera for our car.

    Frankly a lot of these studies are pretty meaningless. There are just too many variables involved.

    • Drakesy on 12/07/2024 - 12:53

      A reversing camera isn't really ADAS, yes it's a part of the surround view system but i think this is more concerning the Automatic emergency breaking, driver monitoring, lane keeping assist etc. All things designed to help but in reality hinder.

      • try2bhelpful on 12/07/2024 - 13:02
        -2

        It depends on who is defining it. If you Google ADAS it is often mentioned as being part of it. There isn’t enough information to determine if they actually do hinder. It isn’t possible to run exactly the same scenario twice, one with and one without, to see if the outcomes would be different.

    • cloudy on 12/07/2024 - 14:05
      +2

      First time I used a car with reversing camera (BYD Atto3), I parked worse than without one.

      But I will say, after a few months with one, I somewhat use it, but nothing seems to beat mirrors and common sense understanding of car positioning and angles for me.

      • LFO on 13/07/2024 - 10:49

        Yes it works like that.
        In particular when the driver has good driving skills.

        On the other hand, "self reverse parking" works like a dream … no skills whatsoever needed!

        • CMH on 13/07/2024 - 13:44

          My car came with self reverse and parallel parking.

          Used it once just to see if they work. I do a better job parking than those systems did.

          Now my car keeps beeping at me on startup because a sensor for that system has failed and needs replacing =.=

  • spackbace on 12/07/2024 - 12:56
    +2

    The idea is that over time these are the minimum features in cars. Power steering, cruise control, ABS, ASC, etc etc, have all been introduced over time to fix issues.

    The cars without modern features, or with worse braking distances, etc, are more likely to cause an accident, but over time these cars will be replaced with more modern cars with these features and will then reduce road deaths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_i…

    Scroll down through the list and there is no doubt that it's reducing over each decade. Those raw stats make it very difficult to argue that new features, as well as speed limits etc aren't helping

    • Ozbar Gain on 12/07/2024 - 13:06

      I wonder why the small increase to deaths in 2023 from 4.6 to 4.8? Must be inflation

      • spackbace on 12/07/2024 - 13:10

        Yeah but at least it's trending down

        Full breakdown here. Interesting data for stat nerds :)

        • BigBirdy on 13/07/2024 - 10:54

          Interesting data. It only covers the past 5 years (2019-2023), but road deaths are trending up year on year. The one exception was 2020, the year of covid, lockdowns, and work from home. Something is going wrong!

          • ssfps on 14/07/2024 - 00:32

            @BigBirdy: Absolute numbers will increase because our population is increasing at a rapid rate. IIRC we're nearly doubling our population every ~30 years.

      • LFO on 13/07/2024 - 10:47
        -1

        Do you mean all those inexplicable "Excess Deaths" that stats have found but no officials wants to thoroughly investigate?

    • ssfps on 14/07/2024 - 00:31

      The cars without modern features, or with worse braking distances, etc, are more likely to cause an accident

      That's a hypothesis.

      Those raw stats make it very difficult to argue that new features, as well as speed limits etc aren't helping

      Not really, i'd argue other factors have a bigger difference. Population density is a good candidate - our pop density is increasing, roads are getting slower as areas are built up.
      Many road deaths are on country roads, and quite possible the quality of country roads is increasing. Around here the last decade have seen several major country highways become dual carriageway, for example. I'd suspect this has a far bigger impact on safety than those modern car features.

  • Ozbar Gain on 12/07/2024 - 13:17
    +4

    I, for one, really love these safety features on my Hyundai.

    It has two lane keeping features. The one is lane keep assist, which keeps the car in the centre of the lane, and the lane departure warning which will alert you and nudges the steering wheel a bit. I love both features. It's interesting to see the car turn the wheel automatically on a bend to keep the car centered in the lane.

    The other feature that I absolutely love is the speed sensing cruise control. It allows me to get on the highway in peak traffic 40km from the CBD and not use the brake/accelerator once. It keeps a proper distance (adjustable) from the car ahead, and even stops/starts in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

    Of course there is the standard reverse sensors and 360* camera view, but it also has a traffic warning system which tells you when you reverse out of a parking or driveway and there is traffic coming past that you may not have seen.

    A similar alarm sounds when you're parked and open the door while there is a car passing. That same feature is also on the rear sliding door, but there it prevents the door from opening when a car is approaching, keeping the kids safe.

    I'm convinced that these features saved my ass at least a couple of times.

    When driver assisted features become an issue is when you don't have the option to customise or turn them off, or redundant features such as the driver fatigue thing, which luckily, I could turn off on my car. I do understand the hate of driver alert features when your car doesn't allow you to turn them off permanently.

    • CurlCurl on 12/07/2024 - 13:34
      -3

      I'm convinced that these features saved my ass at least a couple of times.

      If that is the case, you need to look up the word CONCENTRATE.

      • Ozbar Gain on 13/07/2024 - 16:44

        Might miss an OZB dealt hen 🤷‍♂️

    • Minimum chips on 13/07/2024 - 12:57
      +2

      It's hard to ask this without it seeming mean - and that's not my intention - but is it really that hard to stay in the middle of the lane?

      I mean obviously people struggle with it; every Ford Ranger driver in North Sydney cuts corners on the slightest of curves but I just assumed it was laziness not a skill issue.

      • Ozbar Gain on 13/07/2024 - 16:43
        +1

        Of course not, but it's a guardrail for the rare times that you do make a mistake

      • SlickMick on 13/07/2024 - 22:30

        My car suggests it's too hard for me, it tells me off all the time.
        And it cuts out the radio so I have to pay full attention to it's nagging, which I find really annoying.

        But I won't turn it off, if I don't want the nagging I need to drive better, so I reckon it should be a mandatory feature.
        If you don't like the nagging, drive better.

  • Gdsamp on 12/07/2024 - 13:26
    +4

    frustrating thing is how these systems have muddied ANCAP safety ratings

    A car can be otherwise very safe in the event of an accident and get good safety marks for occupant protection
    But because it has a subpar or annoying ADAS system that drivers would otherwise turn off it gets stars docked

    • azero on 13/07/2024 - 11:48

      Which is 100% correct, good adas could have prevented the accident or reduced the severity.

      ANCAP should and does look at overall safety of the car, not just what will happen DURING a crash

      • ssfps on 14/07/2024 - 00:35
        +1

        Does this mean ANCAP should take into account the demographics the car is being marketed to?

  • Dollar General on 12/07/2024 - 14:11

    “ Researchers looked at crash records and insurance data for BMW and Nissan vehicles equipped with so-called advanced driver assistance systems“

    BMW’s don’t even have indicators so how advanced are these driver assistance systems

  • KangaDrew on 12/07/2024 - 14:16
    +4

    Well, I call BS on BSM not having an impact on crash reduction. I'm a motorcyclist of 20 years so head checks are in my DNA. And while I'm religiously checking my blind spot before changing lanes, my BSM has absolutely saved me numerous times over the years.

    But driver aids are simply that - they're a secondary tool to assist you (not to take up 100% of the load that drivers are responsible for). The problem is when drivers rely on technology to do the work for them with the expectation that they don't need to still put in the work.

    • SlickMick on 13/07/2024 - 22:32

      The technology isn't ready yet, but when it is I'd like to see all highway merging and maybe even lane changes be fully automated.
      People suck so bad at driving.

  • ESEMCE on 12/07/2024 - 15:05

    The actual study link was dead easy to find…
    https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocument/bibliography/2309

    Seems like a decent literature review from my quick scroll through.
    And to me it was kinda clear even from the news article that it would be given that they highlight the AEB feature as being notably effective.

  • El cheepo on 12/07/2024 - 18:44
    +1

    ADAS has such a long way to go before its of any real practical use imo…

    It is absolutely the worst thing in some modern prime mover, it is intent on trying to kill you at random times.
    Eg: while pulling a triple road train it decides that the bug that just splattered forward the sensor is in fact a brick wall and emergency brakes.
    (I literally cut the wires to the sensor after this incident)

    • LFO on 13/07/2024 - 10:41
      +1

      Read something similar happening in the US.
      The constant beeping and buzzing for just changing/crossing lanes forced a truck owner to disconnected some of the sensors.
      A real hindrance.

      • El cheepo on 13/07/2024 - 11:47
        +1

        The buzzing i can live with albeit annoying.

        But some ADAS in trucks is set up to emergency brake as it did with the incident i mentioned above.

        I also had a different truck emergency brake on me in the rain when a car in the lane beside me slowed to turn, which put my second trailer up the curb as the brakes were just jammed on. Fortunately no people around and no damage done aside from marks on the curb and in my pants.

  • LFO on 13/07/2024 - 10:38

    So the safety regulators punish vehicle manufacturers with poor vehicle safety ratings unless they fit the various ADAS devices

    And that is why is so important to carefully analyze the "points/stars" that safety regulators give to different vehicles.

    Then the buyer decides if a low rate is so for real, valid, structural reasons or because it is just missing the latest "safety gadget".
    Buyer beware as always.

  • quick-dry on 13/07/2024 - 12:02

    there is such a massive variability in the quality of these systems.

    Leaving out things like Teslas, just the basic lane following of some versus the others, and discerning what is "within the lane" versus outside the line of travel and not a threat - the phantom braking is intense on some, others I think thy'd stop for a car but plow you into a sidewall.

    Some cars lane keeping is more like one of those "bump-and-change-direction" toys, hits a lane line and hard swing towards the other lane, like a PID loop that someone didn't understand how to tune. Others like the Kia EVs i've had as rentals, that thing even centres perfectly up and down mountain hairpins.

  • thanatos350 on 13/07/2024 - 15:03
    +2

    I thought it was all BS, but blind spot monitoring actually saved me once. That one time was enough to render it worthwhile imo.

  • Windows98 on 13/07/2024 - 15:32
    -2

    What I've found is that Adas is confusing to people who aren't able to adapt their way of thinking to suit the systems downfalls and be aware of its limits, which is something that has to be put up with for when its there to actually save you.

    The same complaints happened with power steering, cruise control, stability control and abs. All the boomers of the time complained that you're safer without the car "doing things for you" and they "want to be in control".

    Now the hate for adas is "omg beeps and boops". But when it saves your ass, it's like. "Oh I would have seen that anyway herp derp".

    So until the boomers die off, some people will be unable to accept adas or any form of self driving unless the car does everything itself properly (which I don't think it ever will). Because adapting your brain to allow the car to take over while still being aware of its limits is a different way of driving and change is extremely difficult for some people.

    • Daabido on 13/07/2024 - 15:47

      It won't end with the boomers. Gen X lived through all these changes.

      Every motoring journalist: Driving a dual clutch just requires you to change your driving style. It's not so bad.
      Every motoring journalist when VW temporarily reintroduced slushboxes: Oh, the changes are so smooth.
      Me: So you admit dual clutches are shite.

    • SlickMick on 13/07/2024 - 22:39

      I remember compaining to somebody in the late 90s that cruise control needs to slow the vehicle down hills and he reckoned it would never happen - they'd never allow the car to control braking. lol I've been waiting forever for this technology, and have being paying far more for cars recently to get it.

      I'm only disappointed that we haven't really gotten very far yet. My #2 after active cruise is automated merging.

      • Windows98 on 13/07/2024 - 23:41
        +2

        Yea it's crazy how much better the tech has come and what would have been considered science fiction is now reality.

        I love adas and seeing how much it can handle and how much it can't. It's not 100% yet but still amazes me what it can do.

        And to think that where it is now is the worst it's going to be.

    • ssfps on 14/07/2024 - 00:47

      People preferring to be in control vs handing over control isn't some boomer vs millennial thing, it's a design decision with tradeoffs which has been around forever.

      A reverse camera, or improved side mirrors etc are safety features that aren't intrusive.
      Auto-breaking that can't be configured by the user is a safety feature that intrudes on your driving experience and forces you to drive a certain way.
      I've tried to drive up an inclined gravel road with traction control in a few cars and more than one has freaked out, making the experience painful.

      • Cluster on 14/07/2024 - 11:28

        Every car I have driven has an option to turn traction control off. Sometimes you need wheel slippage, such as when driving in snow.

        • ssfps on 14/07/2024 - 15:50

          It could be turned off in the ones i tried, too, although i recall one being a pain to turn off, and it reverted at next start.

  • ozbargainsam on 13/07/2024 - 16:59

    Everyone: everyone overestimates their driving ability.
    Also everyone: Driver assistance systems are bad. Why would you need them? Are you a bad driver?

    Unless the feature itself is objectively making you less safe overall, it's absolutely worth it. Already competent drivers that turn these features off, you're part of the problem (see 'Everyone #1'). Really obnoxious and objectively intrusive systems aside - having bad UX on a helpful feature is an unfortunate situation.

    Short story: I've had phantom braking in cruise mode (whatever it's called) in a Model 3 rental, and had the unintended effect of making me hyperattentive. Making sure there weren't cars too close behind me, and always having my foot hovering over the accelerator ready to override the braking.

    Recently, I was driving along (in my new medium-yield car) in the middle lane when someone ahead runs towards the median strip. I anticipated the car would pick this up, and sure enough it blares at me that a person was ahead, but I trusted (hoped) the other person wasn't suicidal. Car didn't brake, though I was in one-pedal-driving mode (foot always on accelerator). Maybe in other modes it might've.

    That said, there have been situations I've taken liberties with road attention, after turning on whatever the auto-drive (level 2.5-ish) thing is the car, to attend to other distractions in the car for a few seconds at a time.

    • ssfps on 14/07/2024 - 00:37

      Everyone: everyone overestimates their driving ability.

      Hyperbole.

  • THICKnSLOW on 13/07/2024 - 21:47

    If collision avoidance systems can prevent the vehicle from accidentally and also purposely hitting anything then it's a good thing. I saw a Dashcam Australia video where a Model 3 was sitting at the traffic lights and the driver somehow got into reverse and smashed the car behind them.

    Not so smart is it.

  • Cluster on 14/07/2024 - 08:26

    I bought a new Mazda 3 two months ago and it's the first car I've had with advanced safety features.

    Over 4000km of driving I've had two phantom 'BRAKE!' emergency alarms pop up when they clearly were not required. The car fortunately didn't slam on its brakes.

    The car does warn me that I'm going over the speed limit, but it's a very gentle reminder. The 'over' portion of the speedo becomes red, and the heads up display very slightly pulses the small speed sign on it. No audio alarms. It's quite good. Compare that to the Toyota Yaris Cross that I tried, where as soon as I breached the limit (I was slowing down from 80 to 60), the car launched a loud and obnoxious 'Please comply with all local road laws!' audio alert. I immediately had a very unfavourable opinion of the car.

    I test drove the MG4EV and if I went just one 1km/hr over the limit, the large speed sign on the dashboard would slowly flash. That is actually distracting the driver from what they should be doing: driving the car. It's an anti-safety feature.

    Why do I like a passive overspeed alert? Because the 3 sometimes picks up erroneous speed limit signs. In a 60 zone it'll suddenly tell me the speed limit is 10, because it noticed the speed limit sign in the entrance to a car park. Or it will tell me the speed limit is 25 in a 50 zone, because it's a school zone… at midnight.

    The lane keeping alert in the 3 is actually pretty good. It'll rumble the steering wheel. If you're not responding, it'll gently tug at the steering wheel. It's not intrusive and it shouldn't be, because lines on roads aren't perfect. Depending on conditions the car will sometimes pick up markings that were incompletely removed around road works. Compare this to the MG4, which has many reports online of the car yanking the steering wheel suddenly, including into the path of oncoming traffic.

  • arescarti42 on 14/07/2024 - 08:50

    I can't speak to the quoted study on the effectiveness of ADAS, but would note that some car makers are allegedly lobbying media outlets to undermine Australia's ANCAP safety rating regime so it is easier to sell poorly rated cars.

    https://eftm.com/2024/07/dont-be-a-crash-test-dummy-the-secr…

    • azero on 15/07/2024 - 10:40

      Yeah carexpert.com.au went out of their way to bash ancap to promote Mahindras and MG s - reason why I no longer read them.

  • isthisreallife22 on 14/07/2024 - 10:29

    I have a Volvo XC40 and I find the driver aids to be sensational

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