Help an Apple Guy Pick A Windows Laptop (Budget $4500)

HiddenOrchid on 02/07/2024 - 09:19

Long story short, I have a $4500 to spend on a Windows Laptop, and I’m looking for recommendations.

I have to do some intensive Machine Learning on it, and will need something with a good GPU/CPU.
It will spend 99% of its life as desktop, but will need to act as a laptop for short periods of time.

I’m thinking about an i9 / 4080 - but am open to suggestions.

The thing is, I’ve been using Macs for the last 15 years, so I’ve been a bit surprised by seeing so many reviews mention poor build quality or bad peripherals (webcam, fans, etc) in these expensive machines. I’m not a huge fan of RGB lights or gamer stylings, but at the end of the day, if a gamer machine will meet my needs, it’s fine.

I’d ideally like this machine to last, so I was wondering if the brains trust could recommend anything?

Computing Computer Laptop

Comments

  • Caped Baldy on 02/07/2024 - 09:38
    +8

    If it's 99% a desktop, would getting a desktop and tablet be an option?

    Mobile GPUs are not the same as desktop GPUs and are quite nerfed. There are laptops that support external GPUs though this will eat up your budget pretty quick.

    Also, AMD CPU >> Intel CPU these days.

    • HiddenOrchid on 02/07/2024 - 11:01
      +1

      That would have been my preference, but sadly it needs to be laptop that can run an analysis on site, without access to the internet, but with access to power.

      But thanks for the tips, I hadn’t considered and eGPU

      • [Deactivated] on 02/07/2024 - 23:37

        Please stay as an epil guy because a reasonable PC guy would not spend $4.5K on a 4-piece windows laptop. Cheers. IBT

        • HeWhoKnows on 03/07/2024 - 18:24

          Yes! $1500 buys you a great Windows laptop.
          Even $1000 gets you a good one.

      • Caped Baldy on 03/07/2024 - 10:42

        Would you consider a small form factor build that you lug around?

        Optimum tech on youtube has a focus on SFF builds on his channel.

  • freefall101 on 02/07/2024 - 09:44

    Ryzen AI chips should be out by month end, depending on how soon you need them. While it's nowhere near as powerful as a 4080 for AI work, it would let you do some in a very power conserved way without killing your battery.

    But it is disappointing that these machines are solely about stuffing as much hardware into a small space as possible, rather than making something good. They're never refined. Granted, the fan problem is simply due to power consumption - they're going over 200W under load for some of these machines. But most brands use workstation targeted machines to flog the RTX 2000 and things like that.

  • barge-in hunter on 02/07/2024 - 09:44
    +5

    It will spend 99% of its life as desktop, but will need to act as a laptop for short periods of time.

    Will you need the intensive Machine Learning capabilities, during the 1% it's in laptop mode? If not, that budget could definitely get you a much more powerful desktop and a cheaper laptop.

    Completely agree with the quality issues though - most laptop builds are designed to be more or less 'disposable', which is pretty disgusting given the prices.

    • HiddenOrchid on 02/07/2024 - 11:04

      I couldn’t believe it when the sales person at JB was saying that a $4000 model should last like 3 years, like it was a huge achievement, not a basic requirement.

      • CrispyChrispy on 02/07/2024 - 11:33
        +4

        That salesperson doesn't know what they're talking about

        Dad's Dell XPS lasted more than 11 years with a similar use case to yours (99% as a desktop), but I doubt they make them like they used to with everything being so thin and light these days.

      • Nillionaire on 02/07/2024 - 11:54
        +6

        You'll realize how much sales people bullshit when you talk them about something you know a bit about. Had a JB dude try to tell me the Pixel 8a would be be an upgrade to my Pixel 7 Pro because its newer 😂

      • BewareOfThe Dog on 03/07/2024 - 21:24

        Trying to sell you 'extended product ca re plan', in case something goes wrong.

  • LanceVance on 02/07/2024 - 09:59
    +1

    My previous work had HP ZBook Studio's for dev's. Total overkill but very powerful machines with Macbook-esque build quality. Speaking to the IT crowd they also found them more reliable than the Lenovo Thinkpads.
    They're pretty pricey but you can likely ask for a deal using their online chat.

    • HiddenOrchid on 02/07/2024 - 11:06

      Thanks for the advice, I’ll look into them :)

      • HiddenOrchid on 02/07/2024 - 11:31
        +3

        The deal they offered me was $7999 - a wee bit out of budget but thanks for the tip :)

  • scrimshaw on 02/07/2024 - 10:06

    Buy a desktop for the ML and use a MacBook for on the go work. You can just remotely access your ML workstation using rdp (eg Rustdesk or Team viewer)

    • sridhar on 02/07/2024 - 10:25
      -1

      Another option for 'remoting' is Jump Desktop.

      https://jumpdesktop.com/

    • HiddenOrchid on 02/07/2024 - 11:05

      Thanks for the tip, but sadly, it needs to be run locally.

      • Mostly Fanless on 02/07/2024 - 15:34
        +2

        Whatever "it" is, will it run in a Windows VM (in Parallels)?

  • sumyungguy on 02/07/2024 - 10:41

    Are you able to wait until September? For MS Surface Copilot+ PC

    • User0001 on 03/07/2024 - 09:56

      They're available now. You can buy it at JB HiFi

      • sumyungguy on 03/07/2024 - 10:05

        I think I was looking at the business models direct from Microsoft, but not sure how they're different from the consumer models

  • jace88 on 02/07/2024 - 10:48

    Do you need a big screen or any specific requirements? Or is the laptop form factor for those rare occasions when you need to be able to move it/present somewhere/feel safe knowing you can take it with you in an emergency?

    • HiddenOrchid on 02/07/2024 - 11:07
      +1

      The laptop form factor is for the very rare occasion where we need to do an analysis on site (no internet, but access to power)

      • jace88 on 02/07/2024 - 12:05

        I was going to suggest something like a G14 but it's a bit gamery… you sound like the target market for a Studio Laptop (basically gaming laptops but look more professional/designed for creative workflows). You'll probably end up with a 15" or bigger laptop so you get the size/cooling efficiency and then have an epic GPU for the machine learning.

  • apple2016 on 02/07/2024 - 10:48
    +1

    I would personally go with Dell Precision. Probably decide the config and wait for a sale if you can.

    • HiddenOrchid on 02/07/2024 - 11:08

      Thanks for the tip - what do you like about the Dell Precision. One of the people I was speaking to said that Dell was couldn’t really be trusted for laptops anymore.

      • HiddenOrchid on 02/07/2024 - 11:09

        I’m not sure I entirely believe them, but using Dell would be much eaiser than finding another supplier :)

      • apple2016 on 02/07/2024 - 11:48
        +1

        The Precision line is built better and generally last longer as its targeted at business customers. Cant say abput support as i havent delt with them. I had two precision laptos in the past and they perfomed fine for 4-5 yrs.

      • blonky on 02/07/2024 - 14:51

        Personally had issues with XPS15s; a 9570 and 9500 both failing at the 2yr mark

  • Lofty248 on 02/07/2024 - 11:10

    Have a look at Metabox laptops, they use a Clevo chassis and customize to your spec (to an extent), pretty small company out of Adelaide with very knowledgeable tech support and they are easy to get onto, had great experiences with them in the past.

    They are not the fanciest machines in terms of build quality, still very sturdy, but the trackpads and screens are not best in class. For the price you pay and the quality of aftercare they are pretty damn good, might even be able to call them up to see what they would recommend for your specific use case.

  • Nillionaire on 02/07/2024 - 11:58

    Are MacBook Pros not capable of doing what you wanna do?

    • CrispyChrispy on 02/07/2024 - 13:50

      I have a $4500 to spend on a Windows Laptop,

      The thing is, I’ve been using Macs for the last 15 years,

      Probably doesn't have a choice

      • Nillionaire on 02/07/2024 - 13:54
        +2

        Yeah, I was curious if there's a specific limitation with MBPs that makes it not capable or if there's Windows exclusive program that OP needs to run or they simply have to get Windows because boss said so

  • garetz on 02/07/2024 - 12:19

    At that budget there is almost nothing you cant buy, just pick any spec in that budget range. The deciding factor is probably the brand and warranty associated with it.

  • sacah on 02/07/2024 - 20:39

    There can be 30-50% difference in the performance of a discrete GPU and a mobile GPU, so if you really do need to do training on-site, getting a small form factor pc with a discrete GPU in it and bringing a $150 portable screen will help you get out of there sooner, and should be about the same size as a laptop + eGPU.
    If you want an idea, you can have a look at https://au.pcpartpicker.com/builds/#g=567&E=9 it'll show you what others have built, and you can price the parts out against AU retailers. Most will put the system together for you if you buy the parts through them for an extra $100.

    If that is a no-go, look into eGPUs as mentioned previously, just don't get a laptop with an integrated GPU (-:

    • HiddenOrchid on 03/07/2024 - 12:24

      Great advice - thanks for this :)

  • realJuliusCaesar on 02/07/2024 - 22:16

    I'm not an expert, but I'll just mention the new Dell XPS laptops in case you haven't considered them.

    They also say that the Intel Core Ultra processors 'include built-in AI acceleration' but I don't know if that will help your machine learning application.

  • ZloyKrys on 03/07/2024 - 07:51
    +2

    We use Lenovo P series laptops for similar tasks. Used Dell Precision before and Lenovo workstation class laptops have much better thermals so you can run a 100w CPU with discrete GPU with no thermal throttling. Highly recommend.

    Don fall for consumer grade crap if you need a tool of trade.

    Gaming laptops etc usually lack ISV certification required by some apps and have limited capabilities when it comes to CUDA etc

  • trankillity on 03/07/2024 - 08:08
    +3

    You shouldn't ask here, but on specific machine learning subreddits. You will also need to be much more detailed about exactly what kind of ML you will be doing. Your use case is incredibly specific and you will (and have) gotten a bunch of random useless suggestions here. From what little I know about ML, you will want Nvidia for the CUDA cores - but you may be able to get by with an edge TPU like the Google Coral or a Jetson Nano depending on the use case and training requirements. You could also consider an eGPU.

    • HiddenOrchid on 03/07/2024 - 12:30

      Thanks for the advice, and apologises about vague-posting. Organisation doesn't like me talking any specifics outside of "doing ML".

  • JownehFixIT on 03/07/2024 - 08:59

    Apparently, according to Just Josh, the best laptop this year (published at the end of last year though) is an Apple Macbook Pro 14, so I guess you're staying with Apple ;-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X35QRgsHhF0

    But in all seriousness, he's pretty keen on the Lenovo Legion Slim 7, if that suits your needs. Literally just googled that and one of the first ads for this Legion Pro 7i (16", Gen 9) was this build: https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/legion-laptops/legion-7-series/lenovo-legion-pro-7i-gen-9-(16-inch-intel)/83de001kau?cid=all:sem:e6dr33&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwyo60BhBiEiwAHmVLJZJ0NXST4suRvHrTfusj9OwagjVy8u1zTyVxOiDZnLSuxp2cX9Y-ARoC-qwQAvD_BwE

    Not sure of the value for money there, but seems like a beast on paper.

    Also I'm not sure if the latest NPU marketing is total BS or not, but some of the new Intel Ultra Whatever processors with their NPU might be suitable. Even less sure about the new Snapdragon Elite X chips, but they're all options I guess. But if you want native processing of your workloads, they may not be an option just yet anyway, depending on the software you're running.

    • The Hawk on 03/07/2024 - 19:09
      +1

      Ask for a discount through chat once you put it in your cart. I've seen deep discounts even on already discounted items. Worth a shot

      • JownehFixIT on 03/07/2024 - 20:14

        Awesome idea! It's ridiculously expensive, and should be able to be reduced I would hope.

  • jonkvh on 03/07/2024 - 10:54

    Just get a mid-tier laptop & use an e-GPU. Once you start going over $4000 grand, you really need another form factor. Expensive laptops don't like being moved around a lot either.

  • ColtNoir on 03/07/2024 - 11:08
    +2

    If you need a lappy you can’t go past the Lenovo Legion Pro’s and their sales. Lenovo often have sales + 10-14% cashback. I think I got a 3060 when they were current for $1700 all said and done.

    I say the Pro as the 500nit screen is heaps better than the average gaming laptop.

    The only rgb is the 4 zone customisable keyboard, so you could just make it a standard colour and you wouldn’t know the difference

  • bweiss on 03/07/2024 - 17:36

    I think regardless of how much you spend on a laptop, it won't be a good AI engine.
    Even the best Intel i9 isn't even close to an Nvidia AGX Orin (https://www.seeedstudio.com/NVIDIArJetson-AGX-Orintm-64GB-De…) which can hit 275TOPS.

    Now if you're predominantly doing training, then you'd probably be better off looking to the cloud, so that you can have it more dynamic, really spin up the core count when needed, and then just walk away and let it train overnight (or overweek, depending on your training requirements).

    High end GPUs on laptops are still thermally constrained, so you'll never hit the processing power of a desktop in a laptop.
    You're better off just getting a good enough mid-end i7, a nice chunk of high speed RAM (like 64GB of DDR5), a fast SSD, and a good enough GPU (like a 4050). You should be able to get that for like $2k. Then spend the rest on cloud services, or a dedicated compute engine like a Jetson, or a couple of Corals or similar.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join