Heat Pump Hot Water Systems - 2024

Devastator0 on 19/06/2024 - 12:04

So I need some help/advice from the OzB Brainstrust

I've been looking at this matter on and off for a while now and am aware of the rebate available from the NSW Government (I'm in Sydney btw) to "upgrade" from a standard electric hot water system to a Heat Pump Hot Water system. The thing is, whenever I've looked into this in the past, I see that the NSW government only recommend certain suppliers/installers and even then, you do not get a choice of a particular brand/model of system you get, it's just whatever they say. In addition, from what I've seen, reliability of these systems appear to be pretty poor across the board and there isn't a particular "go to" system to get.

I'd love to know what the general consensus is amongst the OzB community on this matter and if anyone has any solid recommendations on what to do. I currently have a Rheem "4A1315M8" 315L standard electric tank which does work fine right now but yeah, just looking at my options for this.

I really would genuinely appreciate any help/feedback on this one.

Cheers!

Home & Garden Hot Water System

Comments

  • 87percent on 19/06/2024 - 12:23
    +1

    huge thread on Whirlpool about this

  • lgacb08 on 19/06/2024 - 13:25

    You probably missed the boat, they were offering $33 to upgrade just a year ago. Now those same companies offering $1500 for the same job.

    • Devastator0 on 19/06/2024 - 13:54

      Yeah understood on that. I know the $33 upgrade thing (which I did look into last year but still brought up the same questions as I'm asking here) stopped at the beginning of this year but I was still curious as to the state of things.

  • Muffinman01 on 19/06/2024 - 13:40
    +2

    I'm in Queensland, but FWIW had to replace an electric hot water system earlier in the year, I looked in to a heat pump and in the end after reading various reviews etc. I decided to just stick with a replacement electric system. I was planning on getting solar installed anyway, so as part of this I put in a hot water timer switch so that my electric system is powered by solar during the day instead.

    • BOGOF on 19/06/2024 - 13:45
      +1

      This is exactly what i did.

    • JimB on 19/06/2024 - 13:49

      I'm sure there are long lasting heat pump hot water systems but the majority don't last long.

      I bet any that you get subsidised are the lower end ones which won't last.

      My parents have a 25yo Gas Stainless Steel Aquamax. Never been serviced other than draining the PRV once in while. Hopefully will last another 5.

      I'd be surprised if a heat pump hot water system lasts half that.

      • DoctorCalculon on 19/06/2024 - 19:23
        +1

        I'd be surprised if a heat pump hot water system lasts half that.

        This is based on what evidence exactly, please?

        Of course, if you buy cheap products like Emerald which is being flogged by every other VEECS provider, don't expect that one to last.

        Are you also putting quality split systems made by Reclaim Energy or Sanden in the same bucket?

        • JimB on 20/06/2024 - 11:48

          Reclaim Energy or Sanden are better built that's for sure, however, would you be confident it will be last more than 12 years?

          Anything with moving parts and electronics won't last forever.

          How long as reclaim energy been around for?

          • DoctorCalculon on 21/06/2024 - 00:06

            @JimB:

            Anything with moving parts and electronics won't last forever.

            I can say the same for solar, aircon outdoor units, etc.

            By that token, we shouldn't bother with solar and related green tech appliances.
            Lets just keep burning fossil fuel for the next century as our greedy politicians would have it.

            How long as reclaim energy been around for?

            Reclaim Energy is an spin off brand from Apricus, which have been around for a long time.

            • Nugs on 21/06/2024 - 06:51

              @DoctorCalculon: "which have been around for a long time."
              "designed in Australia to meet Australian conditions since 2005."
              Long is a stretch
              https://apricus.com.au/about-us/
              .

            • JimB on 21/06/2024 - 09:21

              @DoctorCalculon: Solar doesn't have moving parts

              No one is saying we shouldn't invest in solar technology but I'm there's no arguement that this won't last long as a simple gas storage unit. Many households can't get gas anymore, so this is one of the other options they have.

              I can't find any link between Reclaim Energy and Apricus. Where did you see any link? They appear to be 2 separate businesses who co-incidentally offer heat pumps.

              The company that trades under Reclaim Energy (SOLAR THERMAL AUSTRALIA PTY LIMITED) has only been registered for GST for 5 years.

              Between 26 Oct 2012 and today, the company has changed their name from
              ENPOWER GROUP PTY. LIMITED to
              APC ENERGY PTY LIMITED to
              ASOSA GROUP PTY LIMITED and finally to
              SOLAR THERMAL AUSTRALIA PTY LIMITED

              This doesn't inspire confidence.

              I also can't find who owns Reclaim Energy or the team (or who is) behind it.

    • Devastator0 on 19/06/2024 - 13:53

      put in a hot water timer switch

      May I ask how one would go about this? Is it something able to be done by anyone or does it require someone specific to do it?

      • Muffinman01 on 19/06/2024 - 14:05

        It was something I requested and was done as part of my solar installation (for an extra $150). To have something added after the fact I'm assuming would either need to be done by a solar installer or electrician.

      • BOGOF on 19/06/2024 - 14:08
        +2

        Your electric HWS will have a dedicated circuit and breaker.
        You will need to get an electriction to fit a timer in the fuse box for that circuit/breaker.
        Something like this https://www.sparkydirect.com.au/p/Hager-EH010-Single-pole-ti…

  • Benoffie on 19/06/2024 - 14:40

    I went to heat pump recently. The cost difference here in SA between a standard tank and the heat pump was around $500.
    So far, so good. It's quiet, easily programmed with the wifi unit and cheap to run.

    • Nugs on 19/06/2024 - 18:17

      what did you get and why did you choose it? I'm in same boat as OP, looked a few times last couple of years then too hard basket/not economical sense
      .

      • Benoffie on 19/06/2024 - 19:09

        Ended up with the EvoHeat 270 system. They were very helpful and as we have no gas here, qualified for full STCs and REPs.

        After dumping a Thermann system which cr@pped itself within 5 yrs (we didnt buy it, previous owner) and all the builders plumber could recommend was the same, we looked at the standards Rinnai and Rheem (we had instantaneous HWS Rinnai for 20 years no issues)

        But without gas, it was down to - straight electric, solar or heat pump.

        After the rebates, factoring in the electricity use and the ability to program at the HWS, we opted for heat pump. The money saved we will pour into the solar system etc to compensate.

        Plumber recommended by EvoHeat was Merritt Plumbing. Super easy to deal with.

        • Nugs on 20/06/2024 - 20:26

          Thanks for the info
          .

  • JIMB0 on 19/06/2024 - 16:06

    There is a facebook group that claims some of the cheaper brands are good. Trouble is they've not yet stood the test of time. Sanden is meant to be the bees knees of heat pump systems, the problem is it's so expensive you'll never see a return on your investment unless you use lots of hot water.

    • JimB on 19/06/2024 - 16:37
      +1

      Like cheap air conditioners, within warranty at say 5 years, it's fine.. but say 10 years, the cheaper ones are more likely to fail and when they do, it's difficult to find someone who knows how to fix it or find parts for it.

  • donm on 19/06/2024 - 17:46
    +5

    Here's a heat pump hot water comparison chart in case it's of interest:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LxNeh2EQ3Xlg89vU-3NQ…

  • SBOB on 19/06/2024 - 18:05
    +1

    Plenty of info over on whirlpool worth reading.
    I had an iStore installed a year ago and its been running fine without issue. Good option for 'mid range' pricing choice.
    Replace a dying gas unit, and runs as close to 'free' as i could get with running during solar periods for most of the year

    The government provided incentives are available via many installers, its just the bottom of the barrel ones are actively promoting it with '$33' units installed, often with installation quality to match

  • DoctorCalculon on 19/06/2024 - 19:25
    +1

    Reclaim Energy with an Earthworker Stainless Steel Tank.

  • ihbh on 12/07/2024 - 19:02

    OP, what conclusions have you reached. I have a relative in NSW whose hot water system died recently. Is it worthwhile to go down the heat pump route?

    • Devastator0 on 13/07/2024 - 16:09
      +1

      I honestly still am not sold on them. It got solidified by a mate's recent experience where he had solar installed on his place as well as a heat pump hot water system. The hot water died the night on the day the install occurred. I think I'm just going to go down the route of having the off-peak eliminated from my switch box and just have my electric system run during the day when I get solar energy.

      • DoctorCalculon on 13/07/2024 - 23:18

        The hot water died the night on the day the install occurred.

        So, you are have become prejudiced based on the bad luck experience of one individual?
        BTW, you have not told us what brand and model HP HWS was installed that failed overnight.

        • Devastator0 on 14/07/2024 - 09:00

          No, it's not the sole issue that has caused me not to go with it. I have seen issues consistently over the past 2 years with comments both online and with people I know who have them. My mate didn't tell me the specific brand and model system he has but I can ask if you are interested to know.

          • DoctorCalculon on 14/07/2024 - 18:48

            @Devastator0:

            My mate didn't tell me the specific brand and model system he has but I can ask if you are interested to know.

            Only asking to see if it was one of those rubbish brands that every other VEU provider seem to want to install these days.
            If it was a Sanden or a Reclaim Energy unit that failed overnight after installation, then I would be deeply concerned as you are.

            So, if you are not investing in a HP HWS, you are just going with a resistive element I guess?

          • lgacb08 on 15/07/2024 - 08:21

            @Devastator0: Problem was you've been wasting too much time listening to anecdotal evidence and not making rational decisions. When the government was offering $33 for upgrading, even with unknown heat pump for that money you cannot lose even if the system die within warranty period. Plenty of people signed onto the deal and haven't had issue. You can't even get a second hand 50l resistive element for that price.

            • DoctorCalculon on 15/07/2024 - 13:02

              @lgacb08:

              When the government was offering $33 for upgrading

              $33 for upgrading from a gas HWS to an any HP HWS?
              Did you mean to write $330 or $3300?

              One of my family members is about to spend $7K on a top notch Reclaim HP HWS w/ 315L stainless steel tank (Earthworker Energy), and that is after all rebates (excluding the Solar VIC $1K installation discount).

              • lgacb08 on 15/07/2024 - 21:57

                @DoctorCalculon: Yes, $33. But it only last over a year before the NSW being tight arse stopped it. Even then during that time I helped one of my friend in vic got the gas storage replaced by 300l heat pump with the same mob for only $900, you couldn't even buy a brand new 300l resistive tank for that same price.

                • DoctorCalculon on 15/07/2024 - 22:44

                  @lgacb08:

                  Yes, $33

                  This is chump change.

                  300l heat pump with the same mob for only $900

                  What is the brand and model of this HP HWS? You will find the warranties on these models are like only 5 years with a high rate of failure.

                  • lgacb08 on 16/07/2024 - 20:51

                    @DoctorCalculon: Eco genica, if it last 5 year it's good enough, so far he's happy. By that time the market will be inundated with heat pump hws so you will know which one is best bang for buck, but definitely not the $7000 reclaim or sanden, just like the $100 gold plated Hdmi cable 15 years ago.

                    • DoctorCalculon on 16/07/2024 - 21:11

                      @lgacb08:

                      $7000 reclaim or sanden, just like the $100 gold plated Hdmi cable 15 years ago.

                      Completely wrong analogy there, buddy.

                      They are split systems with 316 (marine grade) stainless steel tanks without the need for a sacrificial anode, and at least 15 years warranty on the tank itself.

                      Also, keep in mind if you are claiming the $1K Solar VIC rebate, you will only receive it once. So, if you buy a $900 cheap system like Eco genia, or that infamous Midea brand, and it breaks down after 5 years, you are SOL.

                      • lgacb08 on 18/07/2024 - 22:08
                        -1

                        @DoctorCalculon: First in best dressed, you totally lack life experience and are being to naive on how to use government run scheme to your advantage. When they first threw out the solar rebate scheme you could only claim either the solar rooftop or the solar hot water with the wording implying that if you chose one you'd be out for the other. Guess what, as of last year they changed the ruling and those claiming rooftop rebates got access to the hot water rebate too. It doesn't take much for a smart person to weigh up risk vs reward to your advantage.
                        now back to the hot water heat pump, $7000 just doesn't cut it, not even if the tank is gold plated. And trust me it's not the tank that's the problem because I can tell you that marine grade tank will be worthless in 15 year if the compressor decide to cark.

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