Refunds and Cancellation Fees

MrMoo on 18/06/2024 - 16:13

I'm just wondering how to proceed when it comes to cancellation fees when a customer asks for a refund.

We sell shirts. We have a customer who ordered 5 Medium shirts which we need to acquire from a supplier. After getting the 5 mediums shirts he changes his mind and asks for 5 small instead. We then return the 5 mediums and get 3 small and 2 are out of stock. Upon learning this the customer decides to cancel the whole order (Including the 3 small we have available).

Is it legal to impose any cancellation fees on the customer? Or is he entitled to a full refund?

General Discussion

Comments

MrHyde on 18/06/2024 - 16:15

+13

Legally, there is no refund expectation for a change of mind.

However, what do your terms and conditions specify? I'm assuming there is a contract in place or your online store has some terms and conditions published. How to handle refunds / cancellations / change of mind should all be in there.

In terms of cancellation fees, restocking fees, etc - if they are not in the terms and conditions or mentioned in the contract at the point of sale; you cannot impose them later on.
- MrMoo on 18/06/2024 - 16:20
  
  Our return policy does specify any shipping and handling incurred will not be refunded. The person made the order over the phone + a follow up email rather than through our website. So I'm not sure the same policies apply to him. Or at the very least he didn't have a chance to read them.
  - MrHyde on 18/06/2024 - 16:40
    
    +3
    
    Usually same T&Cs apply no matter what the channel used by the customer. On making the order; did you email him a order confirmation. Did that email contain a link to the T&Cs or specify what the T&Cs are?
    
    I'd go by what your return policy states and point them to that.
    - MrMoo on 18/06/2024 - 17:32
      
      Thanks mate! I’ll talk to them and see what they say.
- HeWhoKnows on 19/06/2024 - 09:22
  
  +1
  
  BOTTOM LINE
  
  Legally, there is no refund requirement for a change of mind.
  
  Usually stores have "stated" refund policies.
  
  Customer ordered wrong size shirts - thats thier problem.
  
  OP should advise the customer accordingly
apple2016 on 18/06/2024 - 16:27

+2

You can charge a refund/cancellation (restocking) fee etc, but be aware that customer might leave a negative feedback etc. Ideally this can happen and the cost is supposed to be built into your profit margins.
Muzeeb on 18/06/2024 - 16:35

+8

Or is he entitled to a full refund?

Just sounds entitled to be honest. What a Muppet.
try2bhelpful on 18/06/2024 - 16:44

+4

Update your T&Cs to cover restocking fees for change of mind.
- MrMoo on 18/06/2024 - 17:32
  
  Good idea, we may amend the T & C so it is more obvious.
JustinFR on 18/06/2024 - 16:48

+4

Legality of it would come down to your policy like MrHyde mentioned.

Small business life can be tough. ACL entitles consumers to so much and even if you may be in the right you'll probably end up with more harm done defending your business.

Perfect example, last week we received a custom gaming machine order online. Built it, ready for shipment within a couple days. Needed some more shipping info from the customer, got in touch via email, couldn't confirm some things, so decided to hold on until we received the correct info we needed, whole back and forth was a bit odd. Come to today, receive a chargeback from the bank, apparently the transaction was fraudulent, credit card information was stolen and was used to place an order with us. No problem, but as the business we got charged a $25 "chargeback fee"…
So the fraudster gets away, the credit card holder gets their money back, the bank is a hero and the business gets charged $25 for receiving an order online.
- MrMoo on 18/06/2024 - 17:31
  
  Damn I would hate to think how awkward of a situation that would put you in. You also have stock of a machine that you need to sell. I assume you can still sell it but it would require extra effort on your end. That sucks! Plus the chargeback fee which is ridiculous….. Why do you need to pay the fee lol that is insane.
- Windows7forever on 18/06/2024 - 17:39
  
  +1
  
  I didn't realise the banks hit the merchant with a "chargeback fee".
  - apple2016 on 21/06/2024 - 08:42
    
    Some one need to pay! Looking at banks bottom line they are not!…
- Ghost47 on 18/06/2024 - 17:59
  
  Does that happen often enough for your business to not be profitable?
  - JustinFR on 20/06/2024 - 16:34
    
    Nah, this was our first chargeback ever, but general refund requests that are well outside normal policy happen from time to time. Nothing close to not being profitable, we generally eat all of those costs to keep customers happy.
- jv on 18/06/2024 - 20:56
  
  +1
  
  ACL entitles consumers to so much
  
  Not for change of mind.
- try2bhelpful on 20/06/2024 - 16:16
  
  That does suck. At least it was only $25 rather than being out of pocket for the whole cost.
  - JustinFR on 20/06/2024 - 16:35
    
    Yes exactly, quite thankful we stuck to our guns and didn't ship it.
    - try2bhelpful on 20/06/2024 - 16:38
      
      I’ve got my credit card setup so it sends me a message every time the card is used. I’m hoping this gives me some extra security.
AustriaBargain on 18/06/2024 - 17:39

-3

Just refund them. Cost of doing business. Besides, you listed that you had five in stock when you actually did not have any in stock.
- bobbified on 18/06/2024 - 18:01
  
  +3
  
  you listed that you had five in stock when you actually did not have any in stock.
  
  Where does it say that?
  - AustriaBargain on 18/06/2024 - 18:08
    
    We have a customer who ordered 5 Medium shirts which we need to acquire from a supplier
    
    They did not have the shirts in inventory, but the website let the customer order five of them. Sounds a bit like drop shipping really.
    - bobbified on 18/06/2024 - 18:09
      
      +3
      
      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/15397748/redir
      
      From the above post: "The person made the order over the phone + a follow up email rather than through our website."
      
      Being able to order off the website doesn't necessarily mean it's in stock either.
      - AustriaBargain on 18/06/2024 - 18:13
        
        @bobbified: Well there's a risk in accepting orders for inventory you don't actually have on hand I suppose, whether on the phone or website. Chase them ups or money and what, they get angry and leave negative reviews? Is is worth it over a restocking fee for five shirts.
      - MrMoo on 18/06/2024 - 18:15
        
        @bobbified: I think he just doesn’t know how it operates. In a lot of cases for B2B textiles they are supplied via suppliers.
        
        You could call it a drop ship model I suppose but that is the industry. We aren’t selling iPads or iPhones. We are selling shirts that have 7 different sizes, 16 different colours. Which Is already 112 SKUS, not including multiple units of each size and different styles of shirts etc.
        
        randomusername2017 on 18/06/2024 - 19:47
        
        @MrMoo:
        
        supplied via suppliers
        
        Novel concept 🤔
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 09:16
        
        -1
        
        @MrMoo:
        
        We are selling shirts that have 7 different sizes, 16 different colours. Which Is already 112 SKUS, not including multiple units of each size and different styles of shirts etc.
        
        And yet they have these places that a customer can walk in to, browser the items, pick items of the shelves they want to buy.
        
        If you don't carry stock, you're basically a middle man/drop shipper.
    - MrMoo on 18/06/2024 - 18:12
      
      I think you may just not know how the industry works. We are not a B2C model but a B2B Model. Often the shirts are not in stock and are ordered from suppliers to fulfil an order.
      - AustriaBargain on 18/06/2024 - 18:14
        
        @MrMoo: If the customer was a business then I'd chase them up over it. If it was just a regular person then not so much.
JimmyF on 18/06/2024 - 21:49

-2

Is it legal to impose any cancellation fees on the customer? Or is he entitled to a full refund?

Close your shop if you think there should be some fees from this.

It's the cost of doing business, even more so when you're a middle man not carrying the stock.

The customer wanted 5 shits, you could only deliver 3.
- try2bhelpful on 18/06/2024 - 22:28
  
  +2
  
  the client changed his mind on the shirts. that is not the supplier's fault. why should the supplier be out of pocket?
  - MrMoo on 18/06/2024 - 22:57
    
    I know right, tough crowd lol.
  - JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 09:17
    
    the client changed his mind on the shirts
    
    Item wasn't in stock, item wasn't shipped. OP couldn't supply the order in full.
    
    Client wanted 5 shirts the SAME, not 3 random and another 2 random from somewhere else.
    - try2bhelpful on 19/06/2024 - 09:42
      
      +2
      
      From the original post. The customer ordered a size of shirt. The company got this size. The customer then changed their mind on the size they wanted. This new size couldn’t be fully stocked. The customer cancelled the order. This involved the company incurring additional expense. The company doesn’t have to accept a change of mind cancellation. I don’t see an issue with trying to recover costs they’ve incurred from customers, particularly if they are a small company. However, I do think the fact there will be a restocking fee needs to be in the T&Cs,
      - JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 10:38
        
        -2
        
        @try2bhelpful:
        
        This involved the company incurring additional expense
        
        The cost of doing business and having a happy customer who comes back again.
        
        Charge them a restocking fee, and you think they'll come back again?
        
        The company doesn’t have to accept a change of mind cancellation
        
        They don't, but the item wasn't shipped, or could the the order be shipped in full after they agreed to the change. So see my point above. I would be pretty pissed to be charged a 'fee' on a cancelled order that hadn't been shipped.
        
        However, I do think the fact there will be a restocking fee needs to be in the T&Cs,
        
        That it does. You can't just make up T&Cs on the fly.
        
        Considering this is the first time the OP has had this issue, put it down to a learning exercise. Update the T&Cs etc.
        
        Seriously how much are we talking that the OP is out? They returned the shirts once and didn't have any fees, what is a restocking fee on 3 shirts? $5/shirt is $15, $10/shirt is $30. Seriously, not worth the staff labour to chase the customer up for.
        
        try2bhelpful on 19/06/2024 - 11:21
        
        +1
        
        @JimmyF: If they get a few customers stuffing them around it can add up. Adding it into the T&C means people might be a bit more careful when ordering. The company then has the option of waving the fee if you think the order is worth it to them.
        
        Apparently ordering a bunch in different sizes and send back all the ones you don't like has become a "thing". Adding a restocking fee will cut down on this sort of nonsense.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 16:05
        
        @try2bhelpful:
        
        If they get a few customers stuffing them around it can add up.
        
        But that haven't, this is the first one, so moot point.
        
        Adding it into the T&C means people might be a bit more careful when ordering
        
        Huh? So they shouldn't add it now? Make your mind up.
        
        Apparently ordering a bunch in different sizes and send back all the ones you don't like has become a "thing". Adding a restocking fee will cut down on this sort of nonsense.
        
        Yes, lots of places offer free returns, so this is what people do. Don't offer free returns if you don't want your customers doing this. Unlike a real store you can walk in and turn on the item to see if it fits etc, when ordering online you have to guess.
        
        But the OP business doesn't seem to be one of them, so again, moot point.
        
        This customer wanted 5 shirts in a medium, but changed mind and wanted a small, which the OP couldn't deliver. So cancelled the order.
        
        try2bhelpful on 19/06/2024 - 16:23
        
        @JimmyF: Adding the restocking fee into the T&Cs gives the company a way to recover costs if they consider it an issue. It doesn’t have to be exercised if they don’t want to.
        
        Yes, some places offer free returns on changes of mind and some don’t. Legally they don’t have to. There have been a number of clothing supply places that have gone under recently as well.
        
        The customer changed their mind on what size shirt they wanted after they ordered. The company had already incurred costs. They didn’t have to accept the order change at all so they were doing the client a favour by trying to meet their new needs.
        
        It is sensible for a company to give themselves the ability to recover costs if they deem it necessary. It is also best if this is done by including the information in the T&Cs. Something I said really early on.
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 13:22
        
        -1
        
        @JimmyF: You have some great insights into how easy it is to run a business in an industry you have no experience in
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 16:09
        
        +1
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        You have some great insights into how easy it is to run a business in an industry you have no experience in
        
        Oh great wise one, share your insights with me about the restocking fee the OP would have gotten and share your 'experiences'. We are all waiting.
        
        I run a ebay store, so what business do you run?
        
        This is basically the cost of doing business. I can 100% tell you right now, if the OP charges a restocking fee, that customer will never be back. The chances of them coming back now is 50/50 as the OP couldn't deliver what they ordered.
        
        Now lets say the OP got charged 20% restocking fee, COG would be no more than $50/shirt. So they got slugged $30.
        
        They have spent more than $30 in wages pissing and whinging about this.
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 16:17
        
        -1
        
        @JimmyF:
        
        Oh great wise one, tell me about the restocking fee the OP would have gotten and share your 'experience'. We are all waiting.
        
        Unlike you, I prefer to stick to subjects I have knowledge on. In the absence of reading his T&C I don't know what he could have received. (Or, as you say, "gotten").
        
        I run a ebay store, so what business do you run?
        
        Oh, I run a B2B TShirt business. Checkmate.
        
        Now that we've established I know more than you on this, I feel we can safely disregard the rest of your uneducated take.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 16:20
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        Unlike you, I prefer to stick to subjects I have knowledge on. In the absence of reading his T&C I don't know what he could have received. (Or, as you say, "gotten").
        
        So do you have knowledge in this subject or not? As you claim you do, but seem to fail to understand cost of business issues like this.
        
        Oh, I run a B2B TShirt business. Checkmate.
        
        Good for you, so you supply people like the OP? So what is your restocking fee?
        
        Now that we've established I know more than you on this, I feel we can safely disregard the rest of your uneducated take.
        
        WOW what a cry baby, you made a claim and when called out on it, you can't provide details. Typical keyboard troll.
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 16:26
        
        -1
        
        @JimmyF:
        
        So do you have knowledge in this subject or not? As you claim you do, but seem to fail to understand cost of business issues like this.
        
        Which part of "I can't know what he would receive without reading his T&C's" is giving you the most difficulty? Be specific.
        
        So what is your restocking fee?
        
        It's in my T&C's.
        
        WOW what a cry baby, you made a claim and when called out on it, you can't provide details. Typical keyboard troll.
        
        You don't win the argument, but you get a gold star sticker for "having a go" on a subject you had no idea about. Silver lining, you've got a very impressive collection of gold star stickers at this point.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 16:32
        
        +1
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        It's in my T&C's.
        
        So share your knowledge oh wise one, what do you charge as a restocking fee out of interest?
        
        You don't win the argument
        
        Compared to you, who picks a fight then throws your toys out and starts insulting people when someone challenges your dribble.
        
        All I have seen so far, is someone who claims to be an expert but offered zero to back it up. So might have to give you the entire sticker book of stars at this rate.
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 16:36
        
        @JimmyF: The words of someone who absolutely isn't having the toys-out-of-the-pram tantrum they're accusing me of.
        
        You had a bad take, just have a bit of a break and go on to something you're good at.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 17:07
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        The words of someone who absolutely isn't having the toys-out-of-the-pram tantrum they're accusing me of.
        
        I've answered all your questions, and yet you haven't answered any. So who is having the tantrum?
        
        You had a bad take, just have a bit of a break and go on to something you're good at.
        
        What was the bad take you think I had? OP having a cry about at most $50 (more like $30) for them failing to deliver the order?
        
        LOL you really would hate to run a REAL business then if that worries you.
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 17:10
        
        -1
        
        @JimmyF: The day I take tips from "actually I run an eBay shop" """business""" is the day I hang up my spurs.
        
        Find similar minded people to engage in future conversations in. Maybe some of those "scrapbooking" Facebook groups would suffice.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 17:14
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        The day I take tips from "actually I run an eBay shop" """business""" is the day I hang up my spurs.
        
        Again with the insults, and again failing to answer any questions or add anything of value.
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 17:22
        
        @JimmyF: It's ok, we have your "well I reckon you could run your business like this m8" comments to add the value right back in to this thread.
        
        Thanks for all the heavy lifting, hope your back doesn't hurt
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 17:59
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        It's ok, we have your "well I reckon you could run your business like this m8" comments to add the value right back in to this thread.
        
        Again, not answering the questions, changing to change the narrative. What does your make believe store charge as a restocking fee?
        
        Thanks for all the heavy lifting, hope your back doesn't hurt
        
        Again with the insults. Do you feel better about picking a fight on the internet to which you have added zero value?
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 18:02
        
        @JimmyF: I feel you can spend your limited screentime before dinner more wisely by sharing your thoughts with like-minded individuals, which I am not.
        
        Re: your effort and attention, I neither seek nor appreciate either.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 18:35
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        I feel you can spend your limited screentime before dinner more wisely by sharing your thoughts with like-minded individuals, which I am not.
        
        So again, do as I say, not as I do. Got it. What does your make believe store charge as a restocking fee again?
        
        Re: your effort and attention, I neither seek nor appreciate either.
        
        LOL You're the one who picked the fight, I just didn't accept your BS points and called you out on them. So again, what does your make believe store charge as a restocking fee again?
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 18:46
        
        @JimmyF: Fine, let me copy and paste it, on the understanding that you find a new person to share your many, many facile thoughts with.
        
        "7.3 Restocking fees: "Change of mind" refunds and order cancellations outside of the notice period attract a restocking fee being the greater of I) 20% of the total order or ii) $20 AUD.
        
        The purchaser business becomes immediately liable to pay this amount unless it is a pretend "mummy I have an eBay shop" """"business"""", in which case their parents are contacted with a demand for the equivalent amount of Robux gift cards from their birthday card from Nanna"
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 18:49
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        "7.3 Restocking fees: "Change of mind" refunds and order cancellations outside of the notice period attract a restocking fee being the greater of I) 20% of the total order or ii) $20 AUD.
        
        hahahahahaha so basically your fake shirt store has a similar restocking fee to what I said the OP would be out. Yet I know nothing and you know everything.
        
        The purchaser business becomes immediately liable to pay this amount unless it is a pretend "mummy I have an eBay shop" """"business"""", in which case their parents are contacted with a demand for the equivalent amount of Robux gift cards from their birthday card from Nanna"
        
        Again with the insults.
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 18:53
        
        @JimmyF: It's about as insulting as implying my business is "fake" just because you don't agree with how I run it.
        
        Just for that, I'm not ordering any second hand Pokemon cards from your store, I don't care how many knock knock jokes you write on the invoice.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 20:38
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        It's about as insulting as implying my business is "fake" just because you don't agree with how I run it.
        
        No, I called your business 'fake' when you started insulting me, but mostly because I don't believe you have a business.
        
        Just for that, I'm not ordering any second hand Pokemon cards from your store, I don't care how many knock knock jokes you write on the invoice.
        
        And again with the insults. Why do you think selling 'shirts' is any better than what I sell on ebay via my store front?
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 21:20
        
        @JimmyF: Probably the same instinct that has you, someone who has no experience whatsoever running this sort of business, dropping pearls of wisdom above like
        
        Close your shop if you think there should be some fees from this.
        
        Not knowing the first thing on a subject is a great opportunity to listen, not share your thoughts. Because by definition that makes them ignorant thoughts and you an ignorant person.
        
        I have no doubt your persecution complex will label this as "yet more insults". If you find it insulting that people don't value "advice" from someone with no knowledge in an area, you're going to go through a lot of life feeling insulted given your current terrible attitude.
        
        This is an excellent time to grow up and listen to people who have walked the path before you did, and can teach you to avoid the problems that beset them.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 21:57
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        dropping pearls of wisdom above like
        
        Still stand by that statement, If the OP is having a meltdown over $30 in restocking fees all because they have gone down the path of not wanting to hold stock and be a middle man, then that isn't the customers problem, that is a OP problem.
        
        So yeah, if your world is ending over an issue like this, then being in business isn't for you.
        
        Not knowing the first thing on a subject is a great opportunity to listen, not share your thoughts
        
        An ignorant person is one who assumes they know more than anyone else and then proceeds to tell everyone that.
        
        I have no doubt your persecution complex will label this as "yet more insults".
        
        So far you so good, oh no wait, this could be taken as one?
        
        This is an excellent time to grow up and listen to people who have walked the path before you did, and can teach you to avoid the problems that beset them.
        
        And there it is….. I knew you couldn't make a post without some insults tossed in.
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 23:04
        
        @JimmyF: Yeah, what an Shattering Insult that sentence was.
        
        It certainly doesn't highlight how ridiculous your persecution complex is.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 23:06
        
        @CrowReally: and once again, nothing but insults with no value to add.
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 23:20
        
        @JimmyF: You use the word "insult" in the same way clueless individuals repeatedly use words like "woke" and "strawman".
        
        I hope you're amusing yourself. Because I don't feel anyone else is riding your outrage train.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 23:25
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        You use the word "insult" in the same way clueless individuals repeatedly use words like "woke" and "strawman".
        
        And again with the insults. Do you even know what insult means?
        
        insult - speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse.
        
        Yep sounds like all your replies.
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 23:32
        
        @JimmyF: The little prince is only dropping fair, honest truth bombs when he says Crow has nothing of value to add, but of course when Crow implies the reverse it's vile, poisonous insults.
        
        The best part is this bit of cosplay comes from the troll whose opening volley to OP was school of life "m8 u can't do business shut your store down".
        
        Cement for everyone else and rose petals for thy tender bedding.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 23:43
        
        @CrowReally: Oh look, more insults….How surprising.
        
        The best part is this bit of cosplay comes from the troll whose opening volley to OP was school of life "m8 u can't do business shut your store down".
        
        Still stand by it, if $30 brings you this much pain. Business isn't for you!
        
        CrowReally on 19/06/2024 - 23:51
        
        @JimmyF: The only validity to your repeated cries of "insults!!" would be if you had positions beyond ridicule…
        
        …But you're the eBay seller with life lessons on how businesses operate.
        
        You might as well parlay your St Johns Ambulance one day course into some straight truths on how easy the "so called professionals" in hospitals have it.
        
        Good luck at the next AGM, anyway, hope the shareholders treat you better than I did.
        
        JimmyF on 20/06/2024 - 09:04
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        …But you're the eBay seller with life lessons on how businesses operate.
        
        Compared to you, who doesn't even have a business. 🤔
        
        Good luck at the next AGM, anyway, hope the shareholders treat you better than I did.
        
        Oh look, more insults from the keyboard warrior.
        
        Not one of your posts in this thread have added value, just endless insults. I gave you a good run to add some value, but zero value added. So guess who just made the block list this morning!
        
        CrowReally on 20/06/2024 - 09:55
        
        @JimmyF: Thank you for your time, we value your service.
- soan papdi on 18/06/2024 - 22:28
  
  Heh
SmiTTy on 19/06/2024 - 01:29

Have they already paid you and you need to issue the refund? If so, withhold a restocking or cancellation fee before refunding

If they are still yet to pay you, forget it. You won't get your money
- MrMoo on 19/06/2024 - 10:39
  
  -1
  
  They have already paid. I just wanted to do what was right by the eyes of Ozbargains! In case what we thought was right was unfair.
  - JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 10:42
    
    I just wanted to do what was right
    
    You have to do what is right by the customer in guidance with your T&Cs. If you don't have restocking terms etc, then refund them in full and take it as a learning lesson. So as your T&C says shipping and handling incurred will not be refunded, and the order wasn't shipped, I would be refunding them in full.
    
    Out of interest, How much will you be out of pocket to return 3 shirts?
    - MrMoo on 19/06/2024 - 12:06
      
      There are postage and handling fees involved which the T & C Outline which are not refunded. But I did mention he did the order via an email so the T & C were not immediately accessible to him so it's possible he didn't read them.
      
      The Postage and handling represents both from us to them and from our suppliers to us. Do we need to make that clearer?
      
      Given that he changed his mind twice we'll be out of pocket (from shipping the goods back and forth) more than the cost of the goods.
      - JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 16:10
        
        @MrMoo:
        
        Given that he changed his mind twice we'll be out of pocket (from shipping the goods back and forth) more than the cost of the goods.
        
        So how much are you talking here? $30? $60? $200!?
        
        You pretty hung up on these costs, so share how much you are out of pocket for this order in total.
Darayus on 19/06/2024 - 11:22

-1

You are running the business, you should either stock the item or deliver the item the customer requested. The customer did not change their mind, only the size, as the size by each manufacturer is different. You have a logistic issue in that you buy an item that requests you have got, so you contact your supplier to deliver different sizes. Also this supply was not made to the order.

Stop treating your customer as a one-off time and treat him like shit.

That's why I have stopped going to Chinese $ shops for good, once I had bought the souvenir to take overseas I paid and my wife said why not take another colour and a little bigger? The shop cashier refused to accept the exchange due to a change of mind, even though I had not stepped out of his shop. It became another issue that they called a security that I was disturbing and wanted to force me out.

So, this type of rigid, one of customer policy is bad and not suitable for the Australian environment.
- MrMoo on 19/06/2024 - 12:04
  
  I've already mentioned in a previous post how the stocking works.
Dollar General on 19/06/2024 - 16:15

As mentioned by others, introduce a restocking fee
- JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 16:18
  
  +1
  
  introduce a restocking fee
  
  But is it really a restocking fee if the order was never shipped?
  
  To me, a restocking fee is for taking back goods after they are sold. In this case, an order was placed, an order couldn't be filled, so was cancelled before it was shipped. Its a grey area.
  - Dollar General on 19/06/2024 - 17:08
    
    Yeah you’re right
  - try2bhelpful on 19/06/2024 - 17:10
    
    From what was written originally the order could've been filled if the customer stayed with the original size shirts.
    - JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 17:13
      
      From what was written originally the order could've been filled if the customer stayed with the original size shirts.
      
      Yes it could have, but the OP agreed and allowed a change of size to the order, so that becomes a moot point.
      
      Likewise, if the OP supplied 5 small shirts the order would have gone ahead.
      
      Charging a restocking fee for a order that hadn't been shipped is a little low. Its not the customers fault the OP chose to carry zero stock on hand or they couldn't get the 5 shirts in they ordered.
      - try2bhelpful on 19/06/2024 - 17:36
        
        @JimmyF: This is why I said the company should update the T&Cs to indicate there might be a restocking fee for any future sales. The point is about cost recovery to the company associated with an order. Any restocking fee should be commensurate with these costs.
        
        The customer was not legally entitled to a refund for a change of mind. The company did them a favour by trying to cater for the customers change of mind. Then the customer left them in a lurch by cancelling the order completely. Apparently, no good deed does go unpunished. There is a bit the company should've done, including telling the customer that they could change size only if the replacements were available. They also could be very clear on what the measurements are for the different sizes.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 17:57
        
        @try2bhelpful:
        
        Any restocking fee should be commensurate with these costs.
        
        But is it a restocking fee when the order was never shipped in the first place? A restocking fee is defined as something that is charged to a customer when merchandise is returned for a refund.
        
        So considering it was never shipped to a customer, and was a cancelled order instead, how can one be charged?
        
        The customer was not legally entitled to a refund for a change of mind. The company did them a favour by trying to cater for the customers change of mind
        
        That is the case for all change of mind refunds, it is up to the store policy to allow it. Just like kmart allows change of mind returns, they too are doing you the customer a favour.
        
        Then the customer left them in a lurch by cancelling the order completely
        
        That is one way to look at it, the other way is they left the customer in a lurch by not being able to supply the order completely as agreed.
        
        There is a bit the company should've done, including telling the customer that they could change size only if the replacements were available
        
        But there wasn't replacements available.
        
        The real issue here is the OP doesn't carry stock and is just a middle man. So most companies wouldn't have an issue with this as it is stock in a warehouse that doesn't need to be sent back to a supplier.
        
        try2bhelpful on 19/06/2024 - 18:27
        
        @JimmyF: I think we’ve both given the OP advice and he can make of it what he will.i suspect most clothing retailers are middle men one way or another. It is pointless going over the same ground which is around legality, good will, cost recovery and not having sufficient current documentation.
        
        The real issue here is the company was not legally bound to provide any refund. They incurred costs in trying to fulfil the original order. The customer changed their mind and, because they wanted 5 shirts or nothing at all they cancelled the modified order. The biggest mistake the company made was not ensuring all the replacement shirts were available prior to allowing the customer to change their mind. If they had found this out they could’ve said sorry you will need to accept the medium shirts you ordered. End of discussion.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 18:46
        
        @try2bhelpful:
        
        i suspect most clothing retailers are middle men one way or another.
        
        So you often go into a clothing store and it is empty? Only to have them order the item for you?
        
        Generally 'real' clothing retailers carry stock on hand/have large warehouses as it all comes from overseas.
        
        It is pointless going over the same ground which is around legality, good will, cost recovery and not having sufficient current documentation.
        
        Why is that? Because I'm not agreeing with you?
        
        The real issue here is the company was not legally bound to provide any refund
        
        Well I think they are legally bound to provide a refund, as no transaction was completed. They didn't ship the order out as they couldn't complete it.
        
        The biggest mistake the company made was not ensuring all the replacement shirts were available prior to allowing the customer to change their mind
        
        100% correct, so they now can't turn around and blame the customer for them not doing that.
        
        try2bhelpful on 19/06/2024 - 19:58
        
        @JimmyF: They could’ve completed the original order and that is what the company should’ve stuck to unless they had enough stock available in the other size. That is, fundamentally, where they went wrong. There is a difference between an online store and a physical store.
        
        JimmyF on 19/06/2024 - 20:36
        
        @try2bhelpful:
        
        They could’ve completed the original order and that is what the company should’ve stuck to
        
        But they didn't, so it is a moot point.
        
        That is, fundamentally, where they went wrong
        
        Correct, for not checking stock levels, allowing a change of the product, which ultimately meant they couldn't fulfill the order. All things not related to the customer.
        
        MrMoo on 19/06/2024 - 21:15
        
        @JimmyF: Just wanted to add here as there may have been some confusion and I hadn't previously mentioned it. We are not a retail store. Nor are we open to the public. If that helps alleviate a picture people are forming where we have an empty retail shop with missing stock lol.
        
        MrMoo on 19/06/2024 - 21:14
        
        +1
        
        @try2bhelpful: Thanks guys! Given me good points of view and food for thought just for future orders and what our T & C Should look like.
        
        try2bhelpful on 20/06/2024 - 10:28
        
        @MrMoo: No probs. You will always get a couple of contrary people when you post. The best thing to do is learn the lessons and get the advice that helps you best. Make sure your T&Cs cover how you wish to conduct business, especially refunds, and try to ensure you can meet the requirements if you are offering alternatives. Best of luck with your endeavours.
        
        JimmyF on 20/06/2024 - 12:07
        
        @try2bhelpful:
        
        You will always get a couple of contrary people when you post.
        
        That you do
        
        Make sure your T&Cs cover how you wish to conduct business, especially refunds,
        
        Agreed, but you can't impose a new set of T&C post sale, so this is a lesson learned for the OP. Thankfully its a $50 lesson at most, so they'll recover.
        
        try2bhelpful on 20/06/2024 - 14:03
        
        +1
        
        @JimmyF: Most of us got beyond the current customer many, many comments ago.
        
        JimmyF on 20/06/2024 - 14:05
        
        -1
        
        @try2bhelpful: Have they really? OP still seems to want to impose cancellation fees on the customer!
        
        try2bhelpful on 20/06/2024 - 16:29
        
        @JimmyF: Quite frankly the OP could, legally, go back to the original order and fulfil that with the shirts that were ordered and he has. Everything that happened after that was an attempt at good customer service. The customer has no right to cancel the order after that.
        
        The OP is pointing out what costs he has incurred with this but I’m not sure if he is still trying to recover it. However, as I said, most of us have moved on to suggestions for remediation from now on.
        
        You are incredibly invested in this, aren’t you. Just a touch bizarre.
        
        JimmyF on 20/06/2024 - 16:37
        
        @try2bhelpful:
        
        Quite frankly the OP could, legally, go back to the original order and fulfil that with the shirts that were ordered and he has
        
        They can't, as they have agreed to accept a change. So that change is now the legally binding contract/order not the original order which is now void.
        
        Everything that happened after that was an attempt at good customer service.
        
        No, everything that happened after that was a a new order. Yes as part of good customer service they cancelled the first order, and allowed them to place a new order.
        
        The customer has no right to cancel the order after that.
        
        They do, as the OP couldn't fill the new order.
        
        If you ordered 5 shirts that you wanted to match and they could only supply 3, what would you do? Accept this and have mis matched shirts or find a supplier that could deliver all 5?
        
        You are incredibly invested in this, aren’t you. Just a touch bizarre.
        
        Strange comment from someone equally invested.
        
        try2bhelpful on 20/06/2024 - 16:42
        
        @JimmyF: I’m not invested. I’ve been offering the OP some tips on how to overcome this issue for future orders. I’m not sure what your dozens and dozens of posts are doing apart from wasting your own time.
        
        However, I’m sure you will give us yet another screed that adds nothing to the issue. You are really fun to bait.
        
        JimmyF on 20/06/2024 - 16:48
        
        @try2bhelpful:
        
        I’m not sure what your dozens and dozens of posts are doing apart from wasting your own time.
        
        Says the person with 16 replies to this topic….
        
        You are really fun to bait.
        
        Oh look at you, slow clap for being so witty.
        
        try2bhelpful on 20/06/2024 - 17:01
        
        @JimmyF: Yup but my posts are, actually, providing suggestions for the OP to improve customer service and how to avoid the issue in the future. The fact you counted the number of posts I made is hilarious. A “slow clap” hey? I’m sure with practice you will improve. At least I have the full wit.
        
        JimmyF on 20/06/2024 - 17:25
        
        @try2bhelpful:
        
        Yup but my posts are, actually, providing suggestions for the OP to improve customer service
        
        That is your opinion.
        
        The fact you counted the number of posts I made is hilarious. A “slow clap” hey?
        
        The slow clap would be for you if you thought I counted them. You do know there is a post counter right? right!? Oh God you didn't. How embarrassing for you. Nearly as embarrassing as the 34 posts you made in the Trump money trial thread.
        
        At least I have the full wit.
        
        Again, your opinion. But questionable to others based on many of your statements.
Darayus on 20/06/2024 - 10:03

-2

MATE tell me your shop name and location and I will ensure I will never walk into your shop in future.
- try2bhelpful on 20/06/2024 - 10:31
  
  You can walk through the Internet? Are you Neo?

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