China Offers 15 Days Visa-Free Entry To Australians

whyisave on 18/06/2024 - 09:58
Last edited 18/06/2024 - 10:00

Australian tourists will enjoy 15 days visa-free entry to China, while business people will be able to receive multiple entry visas, as the two leaders pledged to strengthen the free trade agreement.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-17/beijing-offers-visa-f…

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/leaders-hold-candid-tal…

In an attempt to encourage people-to-people links, Mr Li said Australia would be included in China’s visa waiver program. Details were unavailable, but it is understood to be similar to what Mr Li announced for New Zealanders, where tourists would be able to travel to China for up to 15 days without requiring a visa.

The leaders also announced the two countries would implement reciprocal access to multi-entry visas of up to three to five years for business, tourism and visiting family members.

Travel

Comments

      • Talby23 on 20/06/2024 - 18:08

        Brainwshed by the media? Shows how absurdly naive you are.

      • ProlapsedHeinous on 22/06/2024 - 13:50
        +4

        Brainwashed? These two people were literally kidnapped by the CCP and used as a bargaining chip to put pressure to release one of their own.
        They were released the same day Meng was. How convenient. I bet there are plenty more stories like this that have gone under the radar.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_case_of_Meng_Wanzh…

        People need to understand the CCP literally has billions of dollars to spend with their propaganda and harassment campaigns. They bus in protestors and pay them to harass anti CCP protestors all over the world and its all organised via chines embassies. Pay more attention instead of hand waving away the issue. Its not about race, its about foreign interference and infiltration. Chinese people are not the enemy, but CCP bootlickers like to cry racism to silence any valid criticism.

        • The Check Please on 24/06/2024 - 00:05
          +2

          You indeed think those two Canadians were innocent don't you? If they didn't engage in anything political they'd be safe all the time.

          I don't understand as a normal tourist visiting China just for its food culture panda history etc, why would CCP come your way arresting you? I mean it's certainly a big party/government, but it doesn't have the resources to track down every single foreigner entering China.

          Just chill and enjoy the visit.

    • altomic on 18/06/2024 - 15:21

      It appears that Schapelle Corby has an ozbargain account.

      • LFO on 19/06/2024 - 11:00

        Schapelle Corby

        The one that travel to Indonesia ?

    • CalmLemons on 20/06/2024 - 19:55
      +1

      As long as you don't strip naked and openly oppose the CCP on tian an men square or are a journalist, openly oppose the ccp in general media then decide to visit china then you should be good.

      in fact, if you did strip naked and oppose the ccp they would probably think you're a nut anyway and just take you aside for a beating.

      You can slag them all you want on whatsapp/wechat no one going to care.

      • Funky Kong on 20/06/2024 - 20:19

        Didn't John Safran do a butt-naked run along the great wall in 'race around the world' to kick-start his media career???

    • PurchaseAnxiety on 21/06/2024 - 12:18

      While your concerns aren't entirely unfounded, this is a bit like refusing to fly Boeing atm. The chances of you running into trouble in either scenario are incredibly small.

    • drfuzzy on 22/06/2024 - 18:59

      They are scared of you also.

  • Pumpkin_rrr on 19/06/2024 - 07:23

    Wonder whether this is reciprocal; Will Albo grant Visa-free to Tourists from China?

    • jrvb42 on 19/06/2024 - 08:19
      +1

      The post pretty much states this for multiple entry at least.

      • Pumpkin_rrr on 19/06/2024 - 13:59

        Hmm not sure if you understood me…

  • Lastchancetosee on 19/06/2024 - 07:44
    +1

    How much were the visas before this change?

    • altomic on 19/06/2024 - 14:51
      +1

      ~$160 from memory ( I went to Beijing 5 years ago.)

    • Ridiculous Panda on 20/06/2024 - 11:21
      +3

      I went last month.. paid $9x
      Problem was preparing all the forms and documents needed then half a day at the visa centre wasted to submit the application in person then another visit a few days later to collect the passport.

      • Eeples on 21/06/2024 - 21:46

        I remember mailing mine off.. but that was a few years ago.

        And still very inconvenient.

  • jrvb42 on 19/06/2024 - 08:17
    +16

    All these comments on buying property in China. If AU is stupid and lets foreigners buy property, that's AU's business.
    China is much more sensible, as are most countries of the world. Why would any country allow foreigners to buy their country (real estate) is beyond me.
    For my money, you'd have to have rocks in your head to buy Chinese property. Way over valued.
    Additionally, the rent for a Chinese property is a steal (rental return is why I stand by my over-valued comment).
    In general the cost and standard of living in China is great compared to Australian capital cities these days.

    • techno2000 on 19/06/2024 - 11:32

      Yes, So foolish to let the richest people from any country to just buy property in Australia when the common aussie is strugglling to buy and even rent a roof over their head.

      • whyisave on 19/06/2024 - 12:10

        So foolish to let the richest people from any country to just buy property in Australia when the common aussie is strugglling to buy

        Add to that, a banking system that is not controlled by ANY governments (which may or may not be elected).
        It's the usury that's messing up the balance, ie. the debt-driven model.

        Imagine a bunch of numbers which exist in a computer only, and these numbers are enforced on you (and/or your partner) to work 40+ years of your life, so that you can buy someone else a house (by paying interest), before you get to 'buy' yours.

      • TightAl on 20/06/2024 - 13:13
        +4

        Australia's housing market literally relies on outside interest to keep it afloat.
        All the politicans have multiple properties, they have a vested interest. Why don't you complain to your local MP and his 5 rentals :)

      • zorodluffy on 22/06/2024 - 18:24
        +1

        i got 5 properties, so i say, bring it on, pump up my net worth hahahaha

    • whyisave on 19/06/2024 - 12:01
      +5

      China is much more sensible, as are most countries of the world.

      Let me add to this…

      Most countries of the world have a much longer, or even a deeper history in their consciousness.
      They've suffered tragedies, famines, wars…and invasions.
      So, in their own history (spoken, written), they know the nature of humans and groups of humans.
      They have a view, which spans longer than the "age" of Australia and/or Australian (white) history, of what can happen over time.
      They've watched this movie before.
      Therefore, this experience from their forefathers, shapes their outlook and forms the basis for their constitution, and therefore laws.

      Contemporary Australia, just exchanges land for (quick) money.
      Visas for (quick) money.
      The country is like a shop, and parts of the shop has been for sale,
      where non-Australian customers are buying up the shop,…bit by bit:
      windows, individual bricks, balustrades, electrical wiring,…
      …and the locals are having to rent back, from foreign entities, the use of that land or services back,
      eg. electricity production is controlled by trans-national companies…and we all need electricity more now, but have to pay so much to use it.
      (especially, when Australia is so freakin' resource rich)

      India, as an example, has a form of Permanent Residency [PR] concept called Overseas Citizenship of India[OCI].

      So, children of Indian parents, who are born outside of India, can claim OCI status, via the Indian embassies/consulates.
      OCI does not allow dual-citizenships, eg. Australian-Indian persons with Australian citizenship can apply for OCI only,
      but if they want to return to India to claim Indian citizenship, they would need to renounce the Australian citizenship.

      Part of OCI privileges are getting multiple entry, multi-purpose lifelong visa-free visits to India.
      However, OCI persons cannot invest or acquire in farmland (agricultural property).

      So, India, recognises the importance of food as a source of life for humans, and does not give control of this food source
      to people who would have no connection to the land or the history of the people.

    • JimB on 20/06/2024 - 12:00
      +3

      That's a good point.

      I do agree that only Australians and PR holders should be able to buy property here.

      Stop targeting China when the rest of the world can buy property here.

      • R4 on 20/06/2024 - 16:16

        Agree - and it would be a popular move with voters

    • Poor Ass on 20/06/2024 - 12:24

      weather still not as good as Aus but getting better

    • R4 on 20/06/2024 - 16:14

      Sounds like Chinaland is for you then. When you moving there?

    • rumblytangara on 20/06/2024 - 20:57
      +1

      Thought all those comments were jokes.

      The property market is imploding in China, it's threating to disrupt the entire economy.

      You'd have to be some kind of idiot to want to buy property there now.

      • Michael15286 on 22/06/2024 - 12:16

        It's more about having a reciprocal relationship I think. Not whether it's a good idea but more the ability to do so if you choose.

        The fact that it's not reciprocal rubs a lot of people the wrong way as it's not perceived as fair.

        • rumblytangara on 22/06/2024 - 12:24

          There's absolutely nothing reciprocal in the relationship anyway- Australians don't want to evacuate their wealth to China to avoid it being discovered or confiscated, send their kids there for tertiary education, or apply for permanent residency.

          To want or expect reciprocity in the relationship as it pertains to property acquisition strikes me as extremely knee-jerk and pointless. Surely there are other things that would be much more to worry about.

  • SydneySwan on 19/06/2024 - 11:17
    +3

    Has a start date for visa free travel to China been announced yet? I could not find it anywhere.

    • Ridiculous Panda on 20/06/2024 - 11:23

      I am pretty sure it is effective immediately. Can’t remember where I heard/read that but pretty sure that is the case. Check Smart Traveller.

      • Poor Ass on 20/06/2024 - 17:32

        turns up at the airport and the staff advises I can't board because I don't have a visa

        • Ridiculous Panda on 20/06/2024 - 18:02

          Yeah just looked it up. “The new visa-free travel scheme is due to come in within the next few months”.
          Did you just buy a ticket and packed your bags and headed to the airport without checking?

          • Poor Ass on 20/06/2024 - 20:03
            -1

            @Ridiculous Panda: Hahaha nah it was a joke

          • whyisave on 21/06/2024 - 14:12

            @Ridiculous Panda: Currently, you should be able to get transit visas for: 1-day, 3-days and 7-days,
            for the listed, common International Airports (eg. Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, etc.),
            provided you satisfy the conditions, eg. plane-ticket with confirmed forward destination, etc.

  • AlanJ on 19/06/2024 - 12:00

    I'd like to see Tibet. Do these concessions extend to Lhasa, which has long had special restrictions placed on it for some non-Chinese?

    • whyisave on 19/06/2024 - 12:02
      +1

      If you're going to to Tibet or Xinjiang, you would need extra permits and explanations of why you are going there.

      I don't think this Visa-free travel offering, is going to include those 2 "autonomous" regions.

      Both of those places have needed special, extra permissions, for a long time now.

      • AlanJ on 20/06/2024 - 10:01
        +2

        Thanks for that… I fear you are right, and the simple statement, "I'd like to see it", wouldn't cut much ice with the authorities who have imposed the restrictions. So the special new concession to Australians, to show how much they suddenly care about us, maybe isn't quite so special after all.

        • robertjajajja on 20/06/2024 - 11:00
          +2

          I don't even think you could apply for a permit by yourself, you'll need to be in a "group", whatever that means. Only a registered Tibetan travel agent can apply for it on your behalf and you'll have to physically on that organised tour (which is why I haven't been there yet, hate grouped tours).

          See https://www.tibettour.org/tibet-travel-permit/tibet-permits.… or https://www.tibettravel.org/tibet-travel-permit/tibet-permit…

          Xinjiang is mostly free to go except for a few places requiring a permit, can't remember the reason exactly but something with military or intelligence.

          • whyisave on 21/06/2024 - 14:14

            @robertjajajja:

            I don't even think you could apply for a permit by yourself,

            Then, this would have changed.
            I remember, 20 years ago, Tibet could be traveled solo, but required answering additional questions in the Embassy Visa forms, in the person's home country.

            • salin on 21/06/2024 - 21:32

              @whyisave: Thanks to the BBC and CNN for their fake news.

      • EnALup on 22/06/2024 - 14:17

        aha. autonomous regions… Reminded me of BaSing Se…

    • Poor Ass on 20/06/2024 - 20:04
      +1

      Have you done your breathing training?

      • kl2999 on 21/06/2024 - 12:03

        haha good point

    • salin on 21/06/2024 - 21:30

      You can either join the tourist group or hire a qualified local travel guide.
      I did a road trip via state route 318 from Chengdu to Laksha. It was an amazing ride.

  • whyisave on 20/06/2024 - 10:19
    +3

    to show how much they suddenly care about us, maybe isn't quite so special after all.

    Do you think when you pay money to use some roads, somebody cared about you ?

    Capitalistic models also don't care about people either, unless they can make money out of a "customer".

    I think it's a good thing that if more and more of the world visits each other,
    then, there's extra intra-cultural dialogue between peoples, and people's minds might change about each other.

    It's just that many of these countries do not want western, liberal, LGBT ideas flooding their populations,
    so they are super cautious about that aspect of life.

    I've already spent considerable time, immersing myself in China and trying to learn their language,
    or even in Middle East trying to learn their language,… so, the more we learn about each other on this planet,
    the less afraid we will be of each other,…but change is slow, and 15-day Visa-Free to China is a good thing …

    … for Chinese government to collect all of our fingerprints and facial data !

    • robertjajajja on 20/06/2024 - 11:10

      China collects fingerprints and facial data, BAD!
      Australia collects fingerprints and facial data, GOOD!
      US collects fingerprints and facial data (sometimes have to get you stripped to get that data, "Why do you hide fingerprints under your pants?"), EVER BETTER!

      If it's not obvious enough, I've been satirical.

      • whyisave on 20/06/2024 - 11:24
        +5

        The Five Eyes already have metadata and/or biometric data sharing agreements.

        More people going to China, means they can start linking our fingerprints, with our AliExpress purchases and our TikTok dances.

        • neonlight on 21/06/2024 - 08:08
          +1

          Temu should be on the list heh.

  • Ridiculous Panda on 20/06/2024 - 11:31
    +5

    Just came back from one of those $1000 12-day tours. It was a wonderful holiday for the amount of money! I actually recommended to my friends and now with this visa-free news it just became so much better!

    • whyisave on 20/06/2024 - 11:47

      How was the food on these kind of tours ?

      What about any "upselling", eg. did the tour guide take you to places to buy jade or trinkets ?

      I was wondering to send elderly parents on one of these pre-packaged tours.

      • Ridiculous Panda on 20/06/2024 - 16:25
        +8

        The included breakfast buffets were really good with variety of food. Can get crowded before the buses are meant to leave that day so better go down earlier. But yeah some days, we ate so much we had to skip lunch.

        They’ll take you places and try to sell you overpriced crap. But everything is on the itinerary so there will be no unpleasant surprises.
        Just a firm ‘no thank you’ will be fine. There will always be enough naive people falling for the lies so they won’t waste time on others. We even stayed outside for a couple of those trips to have fresh air and a few drinks. You can buy cheap beer anywhere :)

        There will also be ‘optional’ tours the guide will try to push people to do. If you are adventurous, you can always opt out and take public tranport/Didi to places to do things on your own but those optional tours are generally good and not too pricey.

        It would be perfect for elderly people as most of the people on these tours are above 50. As long as they are fit enough to walk, they will have a great time.

    • neonlight on 21/06/2024 - 08:07

      Which tour is that. Please share link?

      • Ridiculous Panda on 21/06/2024 - 08:15
        +2

        Go on tripadeal.com.au and search for China. There are a few of them. Look at the itineraries and pick what interests you the most.

        • neonlight on 21/06/2024 - 08:23
          +1

          Cheers mate

  • JimB on 20/06/2024 - 11:56
    +2

    I'm looking for some flights to Japan and a Chinese airline has some good deals.

    The transit was fairly long at 8 hours. I may decide a 2-3 days stopover in Shanghai/Beijing now.

    It's a win/win all round.

    • whyisave on 20/06/2024 - 12:22
      +1

      If you have a confirmed plane ticket booking, for onward travel, with no issues in your Australian passport, you will get the 72-hour transit Visa at an international airport like Shanghai or Beijing.

      One thing though, I read that the transit visa assumes you'll stay "within" that city,
      eg. if you are transiting in the Shanghai area, then the authorities won't expect you to take the high-speed rail to go Guangzhou in those 3-days.

      You would need to clarify that, and that's the 'rule' about transiting in the city but I don't know if it's enforced.

      • JimB on 20/06/2024 - 13:32

        Oh ok.. never knew this. My last visit to China was 15 years ago and required a troublesome visa application.

        Anyway with the 15 day visa, the 72 hour visa will be moot.

        I wish Vietnam did the same (even 48 hour visas). We're not bothering with Vietnam airlines. 8 hours transit in Saigon, so will need visa's to exit the airport.

        8 hours would be enough time to go out for a nice dinner and a walk around. All reports indicate that Saigon airport is a shithole.

        • whyisave on 20/06/2024 - 13:41
          +1

          My last visit to China was 15 years ago and required a troublesome visa application.

          I was in the boat too, visiting that long ago, however I didn't find the Visa application troublesome.
          I just had to make 2 trips to the Chinese embassy and the staff were happy to know that I was going there, and they were welcoming.
          The troublesome applications were with "other" countries :-P

          Anyway with the 15 day visa, the 72 hour visa will be moot.

          Yes, in theory.
          We don't know the details of this "15-day Visa-free" yet.

          8 hours transit in Saigon, so will need visa's to exit the airport.

          If the Visas are "cheap", then why not just pay to go out for a wander?
          The next time you would need to pay for a new flights to get out of Australia, so if you're there…you may well as get out, because the transport and food is very cheap.

          • JimB on 20/06/2024 - 13:47
            +1

            @whyisave: "2 trips to the Chinese embassy" + long ass queues, yeah that's troublesome to me… lol

            If the Visas are "cheap", then why not just pay to go out for a wander?
            For a family, it's USD$100 to exit for a couple of hours, probably worth it.

            Ended up flying via Cathay and will stopover for 3 days.

            • whyisave on 21/06/2024 - 14:18

              @JimB:

              For a family, it's USD$100

              I didn't realize VN Visa was that expensive !

              All the "communists" know how to make money :-P

              • JimB on 21/06/2024 - 15:27

                @whyisave: USD$25 for single entry.

                even more if you get your travel agent to process it for you.

    • TightAl on 20/06/2024 - 13:16
      +2

      Stayed in BJ last year, great place, clean, safe, transport is easy.
      Rarity in Asia part from say Singapore/JP

      • whyisave on 20/06/2024 - 13:41

        Did you have problems with digital payments, eg. WeChat or AliPay ?

        • Cookiescream on 20/06/2024 - 13:43
          +1

          I used alipay all the time.

          Used card (amex and visa) at Disney and Uniqlo.

          And used cash twice.

          • TightAl on 20/06/2024 - 20:12

            @Cookiescream: Used Ali for everything,
            Although high end places will let you pay with a mastercard/visa, one place didnt except Ali at all (just one, fancy shop)

  • Cookiescream on 20/06/2024 - 13:31
    +8

    I literally arrived back from China 5 days ago.

    I had a great time and totally recommend people to visit.

    This 15 days tourism free visa day, means I will go again. Saving taking time of work to apply and collect visa and save $100.

    • whyisave on 20/06/2024 - 13:42

      I literally arrived back from China 5 days ago.

      Did you experience any smog in any of the places you went ?

      • Cookiescream on 20/06/2024 - 13:43
        +2

        Beijing mostly.

        The last day in Shanghai was so clear that even the guide seem surprised.

      • Ridiculous Panda on 20/06/2024 - 16:34
        +7

        They have so many EV’s on the road. Plus other restrictions around burning coal, it is actually so clear now even in Beijing. I was pleasantly surprised.

  • hopper on 20/06/2024 - 13:57
    +3

    Let grab popcorn tofu

  • UFO on 20/06/2024 - 14:24
    -4

    Not even if it was free travel there. China is NOT our friend. (cue Chinabots negging me, I don't give a crap)

    • whyisave on 20/06/2024 - 14:45
      +2

      cue Chinabots

      Since the prevalence of smartphone cameras, that's one thing I heard about China which is a bit unnerving.
      There are the "50-cent" army of proud Chinese citizenry, who film and portray foreigners in a negative light,
      intentionally, to stir up nationalist sentiments in their social media.

    • R4 on 20/06/2024 - 16:20
      -5

      'cue Chinabots negging me'

      OzB is teeming with those

      We'll be at war with them in the not too distant future (Winne the Pooh's choice).

      Watch me get negged TF now too.

      • CalmLemons on 20/06/2024 - 20:04
        +10

        You've literally mentioned war with China numerous times on the forum. Are you Peter Dutton? Boom boom beat those drums.

        Please provide an example last time China declared war on another country?

        You and @UFO are the pinnacle of old man senile conspiracy theorists. I'll give you my dads number and you guys can shake your fists at the sky when it rains.

        As always, neg me and accuse me of being a ccp bot.

        You guys gotta really commit to it though and start throwing out all your made in china stuff.

        *Referring to the war with china bit, not the other obvious ccp stuff you can go slag that stuff all you want. Saying war with china denotes the people of china and the ccp, should really highlight the difference.

        • Poor Ass on 20/06/2024 - 20:08

          Nah they are quoting Pauline Hanson's latest interview

          • UFO on 20/06/2024 - 20:27
            +1

            @Poor Ass: @ Poor Ass

            I'd never vote for that idiot.
            I'm all for immigration and understand its importance to our economy and future.

            The anti-China sentiment in this country is far greater than whatever that fool thinks. The fact she hates China (but for entirely the wrong reasons), isn't lost on me.

            • Poor Ass on 20/06/2024 - 21:07
              -1

              @UFO: Double tag me?

              You want some fish and chips too?

          • R4 on 20/06/2024 - 22:04

            @Poor Ass: Not me turbo

            Never done that and never will

        • UFO on 20/06/2024 - 20:25
          -2

          @CalmLemons

          I'm not sure if you're intentionally trying to mislead, or are genuinely unaware of China's aggression in the last 20 years.

          I enjoy reading on historical war strategies and the political intricacies of the time, both before and during conflict.

          And I am very confident that China's posturing is a very clear sign of upcoming offensive conduct. I could see Russia invading Ukraine proper as well… wasn't a surprise to anyone understanding historical context of any invasion in the past.

          China is most certainly preparing for conflict.
          It is prepared to fight off any foe for the resources in the South China Sea (food, oil, gas, and transport corridors are of immense value to them), in the same fashion that Russia was prepared to take the risk on the invasion of Ukraine for its resources (fertile soils, grain production, and transport corridors to Europe).

          You can bait pointless argument with "Made In China" ridicule, but no one's taking it.
          Yes everything cheap is Made in China. What does me owning those items have anything to do it?

          The CCP is most certainly not the elected leadership of China, so to tie off their horrible history they are looking to once and for all take out Taiwan.
          Other than its semiconductors, there is no strategic reason for them to do so. It's all about "saving face".
          They are prepared to go to war to save face. That's a level of stubbornness and megalomania that only a few world leaders have displayed.
          None have succeeded of course… not in the long term, but China thinks its different. Superior.

          Their misconception that the West is 'dying' and that China's ideals are the best ideals for everyone, is exactly how Hitler serenaded Germany's population.
          The difference here, is that the fervour hasn't built up enough yet. Regardless of CCP's attempts to block external news, media, and even history, there's a glimmer of hope that gentrification will catch up with their goals, and they'll get too old to fight. Their population is aging, and aging fast.

          The race is now between time and ambition. If China is going to make a move- it's within 10 years. Any longer and it'll be too late.
          History repeats over and over. Ridicule as much as you like, but war is coming and China will be the start of it. Russia, and to a lesser extent Israel is just a side show. The real threat to the world is China. They aren't playing… and they aren't thinking short term land grabs. The moon is in play as the ultimate high ground and insurance policy, and so is Antarctica… an insurance policy that they will survive when the rest of the world burns.

          • TightAl on 21/06/2024 - 08:49
            +4

            @UFO: LMAO you have zero idea what you're talking about, China has wanted to reunify with Taiwan before they had semis.
            Russia didn't invade Ukraine for resources, that's what NATO does.
            You're worried about all these fictious wars but not the real ones the US/Nato have started lmao. The irony really.

            Keep your tinfoil hat on tight bud, hope it helps you sleep at night. So much megalomania yet China hasn't invaded anyone hahhaha oh god. Can't make this up.

            • greatlamp on 21/06/2024 - 15:16

              @TightAl: It seems like you don't include conflicts that end in complete domination, in Tibet and Xinjiang.
              https://www.amazon.com/Tears-Blood-Tibet-Mary-Craig/dp/B00A1…

              By that metric Hong Kong was freely and generously gifted to the British Monarch.

              • TightAl on 21/06/2024 - 17:35
                +4

                @greatlamp: It's cute that you're going back so many years.
                Tibet? You miss the Tibetan serf slavery society system do you? You enjoyed how every ordinary person were peasants? How about when the old wise man wanted to tongue kiss a young kid infront of the Tv Cameras Lol.

                Oh boy hahaha. Tibet, what a sh*t hole it was.

                • greatlamp on 21/06/2024 - 18:03
                  -5

                  @TightAl:

                  You miss the Tibetan serf slavery society system do you? You enjoyed how every ordinary person were peasants

                  The book I referenced actually describes their previous society honestly, including these details. They were a serf society, so was Europe 100 years ago.

                  It also describes the brutal occupation and cultural genocide that occurred afterwards.

                  Don't swallow the CCP propaganda, it's not a fair justification.

        • R4 on 20/06/2024 - 22:03
          -3

          As I was saying above….

          I am not Peter Dutton. I'm not set in who I vote for but at the next election, I'll vote for the party that will reduce immigration the most

          1950 - Tibet
          1979 - Vietnam

          I do like to shake my fist at clouds

          I rarely neg (and then, never for a comment or reply) - negging is for OzB keyboard cowards and loser/w@nkers

          The only person calling you a CCP bot is you

          I really go out of my way to buy stuff that's not made by the CCP - whatever the cost. If a CCP-made item is $10 and the non-CCP alternative is $50, I'll pay the $50. Of course, it's virtually impossible to buy everything that's not CCP-made, but I'm giving it a red hot crack. I never shop on Temu or Aliexpress and I will never, ever buy an MG or BYD

          Let me rephrase - we'll be at war with the CCP in the not too distant future. My son is in the ADF and what they're being told is not what we're being told in the media. If/when it does happen, it will be Winnie the Pooh's choice, not ours. We're sleepwalking into conflict and our economic and migration policies are not helping.

          • CalmLemons on 21/06/2024 - 00:37
            +3

            @R4: On the train of thought of we are going to have conflict with the CCP, unlikely. Is it up to us? No, I agree. Which means we sort of just play the political game and do what is good for us in the short term/long term if possible.

            Should we be prepared for conflict? 100%. Si vis pacem, para bellum. And same for both sides.

            Are the chinese interested in war? No. Are the chinese soldiers interested in war? No. China doesn't have the american military industrial complex to push it into conflict where it sees fit and profitable. It is pure ideaology in the CCP that is pushing it and the people don't buy it.

            I don't think your views are as skewed as UFO, but you two illustrate the sheer difference in perspective that is unlikely to be understood between your counterparts across the ocean. You've probably travelled through China, eaten the food, but you'll never really understand it.

            Things are much more complex than we will be at war in the future. The notion of war is often or not the best diversionary tactic used by governments to control the masses - find an enemy, and the people shall follow. It is happening on both countries. Soldiers are but pawns of the state. Always sad to see sons and daughters dying because politicians do a lousy job.

            I could explain the perspective from a chinese person; and a chinese soldier and the chinese military complex but I don't think I could do it well unless you live those shoes and you two blokes are from another time. It's hard enough to talk to my dad who is probably your age about anyting without the fist shaking at someone or some abstract entity.

            I can say, there is no appetite for war amongst the chinese soldiers. There is no war culture bred into you as a child in china like in american call of duty. Literally everyone is an unofficial member of the CCP and if you work a government job or have family in the military you are part of the club. They just want a house, food, and a good investment to prop their money. No one is running around with M16's on the street. No one gives two shits about taiwan or hong kong in china. Only for holidays, pineapples, yumcha and that's pretty much it. The only people pushing invasion are the old men in the square. And the people pushing that same rhethoric is the american military industrial complex pushing the leaders towards the Thucydides Trap. It's the old farts who are going to get us all killed.

            What is a guarantee, if there is an unlikely conflict, we are definitely going in first as we will be told.

            • scotty on 21/06/2024 - 11:49
              +4

              @CalmLemons:

              I can say, there is no appetite for war amongst the chinese soldiers… No one gives two shits about taiwan or hong kong in china… The only people pushing invasion are the old men in the square.

              I'll say your view of "China" is very much metropolitan-specific from 10-15 years ago (Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen, etc). However when you browse through the Chinese media landscape these days (Douyin, Little Red Book, Bilibili, etc), you'll see lots of angst amongst younger generation making anti US/Japan speech, talking about occupying Taiwan, etc.

              It could be because of the nationalism brain washing over the past decade, amplified by the economy downturn in China right now . China itself might not have declared war with other countries recently, but there are lots of border disputes (India, Vietnam, Philippines in the South China Sea) that some had led to small conflicts. Not to mention regular harassment in the Taiwanese straits.

              • TightAl on 21/06/2024 - 17:38
                +2

                @scotty: Regular Harassment? Like when the Australia Navy wants to do drills right by in the SCS? Lol

                The irony, you mention the youth making anti US/JP speech, but you don't mention the western pollies all make anti china speeches.

                You glazed over everything as if it's binary.

              • CalmLemons on 21/06/2024 - 17:48

                @scotty: I haven't seen that myself cause my chinese is terrible and chinese social media is just like western social media, for the Fox news followers.

                Are there hillbillies and idiots in America? Yes. Are there hillbillies and idiots in China? 100% x a factor of 5 given the population.

                Toxicity level twitter is the worst, following by facebook and douyin/tiktok with the calibre of comments from people who spend their free time on there.

                I believe though the world has always been this way, only back 200 years the village idiots didn't have the pleasure of hiding behind phone keyboards and often got a beat with sticks and stones by the rest of the village.

                The anti-japan thing has been there since forever.

              • CalmLemons on 23/06/2024 - 13:15

                @scotty: Shiet sorry didn't even realise it was scotty replying the post.

                Yes, the skirmishes all seem like diversionary government tactics to keep the brain washed nationalism alive to divert away from the average level that governments can perform at sometimes. What better to keep the unemployed youth engaged than an enemy they have never met.

                Wealthy employed people never want war. But when people are finding trouble getting a job with low future prospects what better to keep them entertained with than some sabre rattling.

            • greatlamp on 21/06/2024 - 15:29
              -1

              @CalmLemons: The USA will be the one who decides if there is a war, China will be the one that officially declares war.

              China's strategy is obvious, they do not want a war, they will siege Taiwan until it capitulates and rejoins the mainland government.

              In response to China's continued expansion into the surrounding area, buildup of military encampments (fake islands) and navy, the USA must act, or eventually they will be unable to.

              The USA will elevate hostilities which back China into such a corner that they are forced to attack (see example of why Japan declared war on the USA), or they will abandon it. It is unlikely that the USA will abandon Taiwan, for both economic and political reasons.

              Alternatively hostilities do not excalate to that level and the present situation continues indefinitely, until China successfully replaces Taiwan as the global supplier of semiconductor manufacturing and eats their lunch.

              • UFO on 21/06/2024 - 16:52
                -3

                @greatlamp: What hostilities is the USA doing in the South China Sea?

                That's ALL China. They are the ones breaking international law and claiming everything that they have no business claiming.

                THEY are the ones provoking war, not the US.

                • TightAl on 21/06/2024 - 17:39
                  +2

                  @UFO: You better go enlist, you're patriotism is wasted on ozbargain.
                  Better yet, fly out to Ukraine and help the mericans out there.

                • greatlamp on 21/06/2024 - 18:05

                  @UFO: I don't think you understand what I am saying. The USA is responding now, it will escalate.

                  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-64479712

                  Look up the Chips Act and what has happened since.

                  You are blind to the USA's actions because our local media is biased.

                  War starts because both sides provoke it.

                • May4th on 21/06/2024 - 23:35
                  +2

                  @UFO:

                  What hostilities is the USA doing in the South China Sea?

                  ah the skynews is strong in this one

          • Kamsi on 22/06/2024 - 17:53

            @R4: m8 your in wrong forum than, Ozb is not for you :)

  • Sazza1 on 20/06/2024 - 14:39
    +7

    This is great news. I went to China in April this year and was shocked at how much things have improved since the last time I went in 2014. It's very high tech, safe and clean now but the prices are very cheap so I felt like I got good bang for buck. Not having to worry about a visa will surely incentivise me to go again.

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