Escooters Still Illegal in NSW after Years and Years

watwatwat on 17/06/2024 - 15:39
Last edited 17/06/2024 - 15:41

It has been over 3 years since the former transport minister said he was '“not in the mood” to have e-scooters on Sydney streets.

It has been over almost 4 years since the "National Transport Commission" published "Its final 73-page report in August 2020 recommend[ing] e-scooters be allowed on footpaths capped at 10km/h and on bicycle paths and residential streets up to 25km/h."

It has been 2 years since the government has been running trials.

And yet escooters are legally sold in NSW in places like JB Hifi and many other stores. Anecdotally I've seen many people riding around on them in NSW.

If you go to a trial area, you can technically stand on the trial scooter and it would be totally legal. If you step off the trial scooter and on to an identical alternative scooter that is personally owned, then suddenly you are liable for fines of up to ~$2500.

If you stand on a trial scooter with a bicycle helmet, that is perfectly legal. If you step off that and back on to the identical model of personal scooter, then you are then liable to be fined for not wearing an approved motorcycle helmet and driving an unregistered and uninsured motor vehicle (even though they cannot be registered or insured).

They are legal in other states in NSW and in many other countries around the world. I just watched the Louis Theroux interview with Chelsea Manning and they are scooting around NYC on escooters.

What is taking the government so long?

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/road-users/e-sco…
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-abandons-electric-sc…

Travel Electric Scooter

Comments

  • hasher22 on 17/06/2024 - 15:43
    +3

    Simple, it doesn't make revenue thus it isn't a priority.

    You can still buy escooters in NSW because you can use them on your own private property.

    NSW is a joke.

  • jv on 17/06/2024 - 15:49
    +3

    Escooters Still Illegal in NSW after Years and Years

    Yes

  • jv on 17/06/2024 - 15:50
    +3

    Anecdotally I've seen many people riding around on them in NSW.

    That would most likely be illegal.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 17/06/2024 - 19:07
      +4

      you know you can reply to multiple quotes in one post jv instead of 3 seperate ones, but then I guess you're trying to get your post count up for some reason?

  • jv on 17/06/2024 - 15:53
    +2

    They are legal in other states in NSW and in many other countries around the world.

    That doesn't mean it is the right decision for NSW.

    Most people I see riding them around Vic, are doing so illegally. Either riding on footpaths, riding tandem, speeding or no helmet.

    • payless69 on 17/06/2024 - 18:09
      -3

      Can you see all of Victoria from your windscreen?
      QLD has rental ones and the creeks and beaches get new ornaments.

  • pharkurnell on 17/06/2024 - 16:12
    +4

    e-scooters be allowed on footpaths capped at 10km/h and on bicycle paths and residential streets up to 25km/h."

    Because those rules would never be stuck to.

    IMEVOWIOOTM - Footpath should be for foot traffic…

  • Seraphin7 on 17/06/2024 - 16:25
    +1

    It seems the problem governments have is whether or not they which to categorise these in the same class as bicycles (presumably that includes other modes as well) or as motor vehicles (including bikes, cars, etc.).

    If you read between the lines, the problem is they can't determine whether or not they want to impose licensing and registration requirements (amongst others) on them.

    You get the feeling that they want to have them classed effectively as motor vehicles, but if they do they will open the door to arguments that bicycles should be subject to the same rules (which opens up a whole heap of other issues covering the gamut from bike lanes, to updated road rules, to kids learning to ride a bike).

  • Caped Baldy on 17/06/2024 - 16:46

    I'm all for greener transport options but there's still a few issues. There'd be an influx of dodgy products and fire risks are very real. Paths will become a lot more hazardous for pedestrians and due to cars coming out of driveways. It's already bad enough with food delivery riders and some riders treating paths as velodromes.

  • richard1912 on 17/06/2024 - 16:51
    +5

    Whenever I see people riding escooters they're always going too fast, so no sympathy from me sadly.

  • JIMB0 on 17/06/2024 - 16:55

    I think you'll find its a health issue. These will just get used as mobility scooters. People are too fat and lazy as it is.

    • Caped Baldy on 17/06/2024 - 18:21
      +1

      Schrodinger's mobility scooter, do they have a mobility scooter because they are fat or are they fat because they have a mobility scooter? /s

    • mskeggs on 17/06/2024 - 18:44
      +1

      The alternative is probably a car, so a scooter might be preferable.
      It's like the posts on here saying "find me an ebike for my 5km commute" and the cyclists chime in with 'just pedal' and the op gets back in their car.

      • JIMB0 on 17/06/2024 - 19:47
        +2

        The alternative is probably a car

        Not if they haven't got a license. A lot of the people using these motorised vehicles are too young for a license. Plenty of people who lost their license also use them for getting around.

        • peteru on 18/06/2024 - 14:45
          +1

          Well, there's another can of worms. People who lost their license because they could not follow road rules and were deemed too dangerous to drive. So now those people get up to the same or worse shenanigans on both footpaths and roads. And there's nothing to stop them because they can not be identified and are very unlikely to be caught.

    • Clear on 17/06/2024 - 20:27

      In my state the rentals have allowed people in lower socio economic areas where buses are less frequent to get more easily into the city, as well as going to jobs and what not. Something a car can't achieve for a lot of them due to either not having a car or being too young to drive (old enough to ride of course).

      Naturally the councils/government are supportive due to the financial impact from both more people being brought into the city and the fees ride operators pay them.

  • joelmuzz on 17/06/2024 - 17:05
    +1

    Bicycles are illegal on footpaths in NSW and VIC, so scooters are in the queue behind them.
    They allow hire scooters in the trial areas since those hire scooters have insurance, GPS tracking (to identify guilty scooter) and tamperproof GPS zoned speed limiters.

  • DingoBilly on 17/06/2024 - 17:42
    +1

    Eh - it's illegal but plenty of people use them, and plenty of people ride on footpaths with bikes. Sometimes you have to use common sense instead of just following the rules in a black and white way.

    If you want to use one just buy one and use it - no-one is going to have issues with it except for Karens or if you're very unlucky a power-hungry cop but my friends have never had issues even after 2-3 years of use and riding regularly around their fairly busy neighbourhoods.

  • Mr Plow on 17/06/2024 - 17:55
    +4

    Welcome to NSW, the nanny state.

  • sectokia on 17/06/2024 - 18:42

    Its all rigged by political interests.

    Take QLD for example: E-bike has to be limited to 200W and 25km/hr. But a scooter has no limits…. it can be 60kg 2,000W and capable of 100km/hr. Does that make any sense at all? Of course it doesn't.

    This isn't about logic. This is about what politicians mates got kick backs from getting the government to 'invest' in setting up scooter share/hire companies.

    In QLD there is no hardware limit on speed required. Just you are meant to do 12km/hr on footpaths and 25km/hr otherwise…. but how is this enforced? How often are police going to set laser speed traps to get scooter riders? Basically never. Thus it is a common site to see people on scooters hooning around at 50-80km/hr.

    There are already 4 pedestrian deaths from scooters in QLD, compared to zero from bicycles in the last 10 years. No one talks about this because scooters are seen as green and therefore good.

    I don't know what the solution is. I think scooters should be limited to 60km/hr and allowed to drive on any road where the speed limit is 60 or under.

    • MS Chris on 17/06/2024 - 19:46

      Accidents between bicycles and pedestrians do happen. From a quick search, I found a story of a person dying after being struck by a cyclist in October 2023 - https://7news.com.au/news/brisbane/pedestrian-in-critical-co… and https://bq.org.au/news/tragedy-on-bicentennial-bikeway-spark…

      Cyclists can get up speeds of 50km/hr or more, and accidents at that speed can cause serious injury to a pedestrian. I often see bicycles travelling faster than electric scooter, often overtaking within centimetres of pedestrians and scooter riders.

      Bicycles are not subject to any restrictions in terms of speed (except on certain sections of bikepaths/bridges), yet the focus is always on the bad electric scooter riders.

    • falcine on 17/06/2024 - 20:05

      Your 'politics is rigged' comment might have merit if police didn't enforce the 25km/hr speed limit. But they have and they do. It took me 30 seconds of googling to find a report where Qld police issued 34 speeding infringement notices to e-scooter riders on a single day. So in practice, there is no difference between having a 25km/hr speed limit on roads and 25km/hr speed limit on the hardware.

      As for "how are they going to enforce it?": not sure if this is trolling, but there's an obvious difference between something travelling at 25km/hr and 50km/hr. Simple tip: if the rider is keeping up with cars on the road, it's speeding.

  • Lord Fart Bucket on 17/06/2024 - 18:42

    Trials are happening…. https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/current-projects/n…
    Wollongong has them.

    • pegaxs on 17/06/2024 - 23:26

      I think Newcastle had or is having the trial as well at some point…

      Nope, turns out they either didn’t get it, or it isn’t there yet.

  • coffeeinmyveins on 17/06/2024 - 19:09

    They are legal in other states in NSW and in many other countries around the world. I just watched the Louis Theroux interview with Chelsea Manning and they are scooting around NYC on escooters.

    I was just in NYC and I can confirm that not a single e-scooter was on a footpath. They were on all either dedicated bike lanes or the road.

    Even with them being illegal there are too many of them on footpaths in NSW.

    Don't blame the gov, blame how stupid we are with motorised transport in NSW.

    • fantombloo on 17/06/2024 - 19:28

      Inadequate riding infrastructure in Sydney. Blame the government, and to a lesser extent our topography.

  • zoombie on 17/06/2024 - 21:44
    +4

    if you live in australia long enough, you will eventually comes to the realisation that this is one giant incompetence country.

    • Intercity trains that goes to blue mountains/newcastle. Minister announced and started the project in 2014. Ten yrs later, not a single train is running.

    • North sydney swimming pool, started in 2021 due to complete 2023, still not complete.

    • Opal card upgrade/replacement tender, announced 2 yrs ago, "spent $41.5 million on research, trials, and preparations for the tender process" tender still not out

    • $24m on a Dr fees comparison site, with a grand total of 20 Dr listed.

    And the list goes on.

    • Ghost47 on 18/06/2024 - 18:21

      And that's only NSW, that crap exists all over the country. When all your leaders cut their teeth in politics during the 90s when times were good, own multiple investment properties ands get fat salaries it's not surprising we are where we are. They're so comfortable with their cushy lives they can go into the office, jerk each other off and then go home without any repercussions because even if the country falls over they'll still own their assets and have their riches. Good times created weak leaders in the 90s and these weak leaders are now creating hard times for everyone else.

      Politicians funnel taxpayer money to their rich business mates who then faff about on projects to extort even more taxpayer money and around and around it goes.

  • pegaxs on 17/06/2024 - 23:29

    Did you even bother to read the latest Road Rules legislation? on what electric scooters can and can’t do?

    I’m too tired and bored to read it right now, but it may shed some light on where electric scooters are up to?

    Or, you know, stay outraged at click bait news articles in shitty newspapers from 2021…

  • shaybisc on 18/06/2024 - 08:28
    +1

    Do you e-scooter advocates want to ride them on footpaths? That's a hard NO from me. As if the drunken hoons getting about on them are going to observe a 10km/h limit.

  • shaybisc on 18/06/2024 - 08:38

    Launched in Singapore in 2016, the global electric scooter market is valued at more than US$33.18 billion (A$49 billion) and is growing each year by around 10%.

    https://www.unsw.edu.au/newsroom/news/2024/02/e-scooters-are…

    As a result, e-scooters have been banned on the footpaths of Singapore since November of last year in Singapore. This measure was taken as the government makes an effort to to address public safety concerns surrounding their use and misuse.28 Apr 2020

    https://zegal.com/en-au/blog/post/singapores-new-e-scooter-l…

    • pegaxs on 18/06/2024 - 08:55

      And by that measure, Singapore is full of reasonably polite and law abiding citizens and they are having issues? Australia is full of bogans and eshays by comparison…

      I think that NSW has it right in restricting them to roads 50km/h and under and to designated cycleways. No riding on footpaths and no one under 16. (But we all know that people will ride them on footpaths and most riders will be 12~15 years old…)

  • athomedad67 on 19/06/2024 - 10:46

    e-scooters might seem convenient, but they’re basically accidents waiting to happen. The government’s dragging its feet, probably because these things are dangerous and they know it. The rules are a joke – you can buy them anywhere but using them could get you fined thousands. That’s a red flag. They’re zipping around at speeds that can seriously injure riders and pedestrians. E-scooters are legal in some places, but just because something is popular doesn’t make it safe. Until they figure out how to keep everyone safe, these scooters should stay off our streets.

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