Merchants Not Disclosing EFT Surcharges - What Do Others Think?

Natt on 16/06/2024 - 14:01
Last edited 16/06/2024 - 14:05

Don't really want to be the 'old man that yells at clouds'. I am pretty unfussed with a business deciding how they want to get paid and how much extra it will cost me to do that. If I don't like it then I vote with my feet.

But I want to know and have that choice. Upfront, rather than deciding not to stress out a retail work who has zero ability to change it.

Putting it on a sticker in teeny writing on the EFT machine doesn't do the job either. Especially after I have ordered, have the goodies and you JUST handed the machine to me. Cafes/food business are terrible for this. Is it hard to put it on the menu/website? Just like a public holiday surcharge?

And if I have no choice but to pay that surcharge, stop displaying the 'base price'. Its not $20 if there is no way I can actually just give you $20 and make it mine.

I totally get it, costs for businesses are increasing. 'User pays' is legit. I know the legal framework, I know that business shouldn't be charging the same surcharge for debit vs credit (although that's a more complicated issue).

So I guess, I am asking others to be aware and see what they think?

Is it a case of hey its just a little bit, not worth stressing about. Or do you tackle it? Or do you carry cash more that you did?

If our bosses docked our 'after tax' pay by 1.5% we would be quite upset. And it does add up. Sometimes its more than that too.

Financial

Comments

  • askbargain on 16/06/2024 - 14:04
    +8

    chargeback so they pay $15+

    • Natt on 16/06/2024 - 14:10
      +1

      That's the other thing.

      Although you would need to try and resolve with the merchant first, that's an option.

      It's just confusing to me that a business would risk that cost, why not do it right?

      Also makes other businesses that do 'disclose' look more expensive.

      • askbargain on 16/06/2024 - 14:13
        +2

        how would you resolve it with the merchant? let the minimum wage worker try and handle it?

        hit them where it hurts. the owner will see it in their statement.

        It's just confusing to me that a business would risk that cost, why not do it right?

        how many people would walk out after sitting down and seeing the fee?

        • Natt on 16/06/2024 - 15:02
          +7

          Contact the merchant after the purchase I would guess. They can issue a partial refund.

          Its also a required step you make that attempt etc.

          As for people walking out, maybe not. But it might alert people to having a bit more cash on hand instead?

          If you take a wider view, its actually 'hiding' the true increases in the cost of living in 'policy making'. That 1.5% is more pre-tax.

          I think its becoming endemic, even for things like medical services that are not discretionary.

          • askbargain on 16/06/2024 - 15:32
            +1

            @Natt: i don't think restaurants will entertain you if you're complaining about <$2. just chargeback, get your money back and they learn their lesson.

          • lechuck123 on 18/06/2024 - 09:58
            +3

            @Natt: I got stung at a petrol station the other day!

            Filled up, went inside and there was a 1.5% surcharge to use card. I didn't have cash, so just had to wear it. It's getting out of control.

            The sooner the govt steps in and stops this practice, the better.

            • CurlCurl on 18/06/2024 - 12:08

              @lechuck123:

              Filled up, went inside and there was a 1.5% surcharge to use card. I didn't have cash, so just had to wear it. It's getting out of control.

              Servos I go to have a sign on the pumps with surcharges listed listed.

        • apsilon on 16/06/2024 - 17:54
          +10

          hit them where it hurts. the owner will see it in their statement.

          You do realise the bank contacts the merchant and gives them the chance to respond to the dispute right? In a case like this the merchant would show evidence that they're complying with the law in displaying the surcharge at the POS and dispute would be rejected.

          • askbargain on 16/06/2024 - 19:34
            +7

            @apsilon:

            in a case like this

            If you're referring to this

            Putting it on a sticker in teeny writing on the EFT machine doesn't do the job either.

            Then you might want to see what ACCC has to say

            Consumers should be made aware of any surcharges or fees that may apply before they decide to order or purchase goods or services. Businesses should display any surcharges or fees in a prominent way so that consumers can easily and clearly see whether there are any additional costs that may apply before making a decision.

            There are plenty of other restaurants that tell you to scan the QR code (I didn't know you can pay in cash at the counter) or carparks that don't accept cash and won't display their surcharge on entry. Takes 10 seconds of effort for few days headache for them. If they want to be sneaky about it then they can cry about it.

            I will continue to pay with my Amex, so they can't pay cash in hand and they can deal with Amex with the chargeback.

            • apsilon on 16/06/2024 - 19:49

              @askbargain: They'll show they have a sign at the counter and/or entry etc. OP may have missed them or they may come after the fact but for the dispute they were always there.

              • askbargain on 16/06/2024 - 20:12
                +1

                @apsilon: you don't always order at the counter. and nobody puts card surcharge at entry.

                • apsilon on 16/06/2024 - 20:16
                  -1

                  @askbargain: Yet it complies with the law.

                  • askbargain on 16/06/2024 - 20:17
                    +1

                    @apsilon: according to who? you think they are actively policing it? just wondering, do you own a restaurant?

                    • apsilon on 16/06/2024 - 20:26
                      +4

                      @askbargain: ACCC. What do you think is required? No restaurant, I don't charge surcharge in my business, just build it in to the price so everyone pays it regardless of payment method.

                      • askbargain on 16/06/2024 - 20:45
                        +6

                        @apsilon: In my previous comment, ACCC have said how surcharges need to be displayed. At the counter is not sufficient if it’s table service.

                        • imme1386 on 18/06/2024 - 11:01
                          -1

                          @askbargain: I have discussed this in detail with ACCC regarding the practise, it does not need to be in your face every step you take, as long as its advertised at a main counter(near the eftpos machine), on an entry to the premises its perfectly fine, Every place ive been to has it on the window out front of the store or at the payment counter. In Most cases if its at the entry clearly displayed a business can argue u seen it before entering.

                          • askbargain on 18/06/2024 - 18:06
                            +2

                            @imme1386: I’ve yet to see a sit down restaurant put their card surcharge at the door. If it’s food court, there’s no door and only a counter.

            • Agret on 16/06/2024 - 21:24
              +3

              @askbargain:

              Consumers should be made aware of any surcharges or fees that may apply before they decide to order or purchase goods or services.

              I went to a restaurant in the city and they didn't list any surcharge/fee on the menu. It was one of the ones along a public walkway with outdoor seating, we just arrived and sat at an outdoor table. There was no surcharge listed on the menu at all, went to pay and there was a 15% sunday surcharge and a 3.5% eftpos fee and they wouldn't accept cash. Paid way more than I thought it would cost… the only place this was signed was right at the register on some A5 piece of paper next to the eftpos machine.

              I tried to look up their menu online after I got home but the online menu was like 3yrs out of date and didn't show any surcharges either so couldn't use that as evidence to submit a claim to accc. Had to just eat the costs.

              • cheekymonkey97 on 16/06/2024 - 21:33
                +1

                @Agret: Public holiday surchage wasn't enough we now have Sunday surchages too? Lmao, I hope worse than the covid downturn for all these cafes and restaurants.

              • askbargain on 16/06/2024 - 23:41
                +1

                @Agret: perfect time to chargeback

              • lookingforTV on 19/06/2024 - 11:05
                +2

                @Agret: If they don't accept cash, they can't legally charge eftpos fee.

            • pandadude on 17/06/2024 - 07:37
              +1

              @askbargain: Perth Airport is the best example. For online promotions you must incur a surcharge. I quoted them the above and there response was they comply with the law.

              If surcharge has to be incurred then the price should be inclusive of the lowest surcharge.

              If the ACCC wasn't half a asleep as the wheel these problems would happen.

        • Thinkswithelbow on 17/06/2024 - 09:46
          -1

          Generally banks want written proof that you've attempted to contact the merchant

          • askbargain on 18/06/2024 - 18:04
            +1

            @Thinkswithelbow: Say you were charged wrong amount. Say you were not notified that there will be a card surcharge.

        • arcticmonkey on 20/06/2024 - 05:34
          +1

          Google Reviews are a load of rubbish in my opinion as they hide one star reviews but you could try that.

          • ATTS on 20/06/2024 - 13:27

            @arcticmonkey: Is there a method to decipher fake and legitimate reviews?

      • HeWhoKnows on 17/06/2024 - 17:20
        +1

        Rule of Thumb

        EFTPOS is the cheapest form of electronic payment (often FREE).
        Thats where you insert your card into the machine, select "Savings Account" and plug in the PIN number

        Tap and Go (Contactless) goes via your VISA or Mastercard, regardless if a credit card or debit card.
        This method incurs higher fees.

        But then again, Debit cards have lower charges than credit Cards

        The charges are determined by the merchant, not by your bank.
        But should reflect actual cost.

        Some supermarkets charge no fees - i.e. Coles and Woolworths

        But Aldi does charge 0.5% on all credit cards and contactless payments so the small savings you might make are partially or completely lost in Aldi's card fees. Hence at Aldi pay CASH or insert your card and select savings account (EFTPOS)

        See here what fees Jetstar charges as a guide
        https://www.jetstar.com/au/en/help/articles/fees-and-charges

        • dbun1 on 18/06/2024 - 07:16
          +2

          I try and do this now where I can, however it’s annoying when the fee is already added to the total so you pay it anyway even if inserting the card. It works well for the places that let the terminal calculate and add on the fee based on payment method.

        • canAdeladian on 18/06/2024 - 12:54
          -5

          Holy hell you people have too much time on your hands if half a percent on a grocery shop makes a difference in your lives.

          • askbargain on 18/06/2024 - 18:03
            +1

            @canAdeladian: Do it on company time. Also the principle. Australians don’t have component pricing, and it should stay that way.

        • stewy on 19/06/2024 - 00:15

          At 0.5% CC fee I'm still ahead once factoring interest free period and the FF points….

        • spedohero on 19/06/2024 - 12:24
          -1

          Insert for fpos is chargable now for some places. I will usually just use cash. Cash is king.

    • HardQuiz on 16/06/2024 - 14:21

      chargeback so they pay $15+

      Why?

      • askbargain on 16/06/2024 - 15:33
        +5

        depending on who their bank is, chargeback usually carries a fee for the business. if they have too many chargebacks, they won't be able to accept EFTPOS transactions.

    • SlartiBartFozz on 17/06/2024 - 21:41

      They pay ~$15, how much do you typicaly get refunded in that scenario, just the percentage of sale fee ?

      How long does it take you on the phone with your bank to query it (my bank takes about 30-40min to get through their call centre ?

    • v8bargain on 18/06/2024 - 17:53

      @askbargain, I'm curious how you go about this charge back, especially in relation to getting supporting evidence etc.?

      Hope you don't mind, I'm guessing you might have some success stories you could share?

      • askbargain on 18/06/2024 - 18:02
        -2

        Take a pic of their menu and their counter. Just use those pics as evidence. No evidence required for trying to contact merchant. Just say they were unwilling to cooperate with removing the surcharge.

        No bank wants to pay the difference out of their pocket so they will go through with chargeback. If they don’t, you have you good old friend the ombudsman.

  • grog on 16/06/2024 - 14:10
    +9

    This is a bloody disgusting act committed to sneakily get more money from us

    Only got caught 2 times for a meat pie and a small item from a gift shop

    mongrels bastards they are.

    Now i ask if there is a surcharge before using card

    bastards

    • CurlCurl on 16/06/2024 - 14:54
      +17

      This is a bloody disgusting act committed to sneakily get more money from us

      They are NOT getting more money from us. They are getting back the money it costs to process the payment to maintain their profit margin.

      It is small businesses doing it as the large businesses build it into the price.

      If the pie you purchased cost you $6 plus the 1.2% the total for cost is $6.07. If the pie seller charges $6.15 for the pie with no fee, he makes an extra .0038 cents, and you would be happy as you didn't have to pay an EXTRA fee.

      • Benno007 on 17/06/2024 - 08:39
        +4

        Well actually in most cases they are using it as a revenue line item. I’ve worked on many ecommerce platforms and companies tend to charge a flat percent fee regardless of the card brand/network used.

        They have the fee slightly higher than the actual cost, because there are some cards there can be higher fee than what they charge. But they usually always make money off it. Especially when using EFTPOS rails in australia, the interchange rate is almost half visa/mastercard, and it’s not near 1%

    • Natt on 16/06/2024 - 15:18
      +1

      I think that's my main point. People will know to ask/carry cash. Because it's not being disclosed.

      It must be hard with costs increasing to decide whether to bump up prices, or whack on a payment surcharge.

      I actually think a surcharge is a bit 'fairer'. But not when it's done when you got that meat pie in your hand.

  • b3au on 16/06/2024 - 14:13
    +1

    I know that business shouldn't be charging the same surcharge for debit vs credit (although that's a more complicated issue).

    Where do you get this idea?

    A business can pass on the cost of acceptance - if the business is being charged the same amount to process a transaction, whether it's

    • American Express (though Amex is not included in the ACCC surcharge rules)
    • eftpos cheque/savings
    • Mastercard credit
    • Mastercard debit
    • Mastercard prepaid
    • Visa credit
    • Visa debit
    • Visa prepaid

    then they can pass that cost onto you.

    • Natt on 16/06/2024 - 15:07
      +4

      https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/pricing/card-surcharges

      Average costs for different payment types
      As a guide, the Reserve Bank of Australia has estimated average costs for different payment types:

      Eftpos: less than 0.5%
      Visa and Mastercard debit: between 0.5% and 1%
      Visa and Mastercard credit: between 1% and 1.5%.
      To accept these payment types, most businesses incur costs within these ranges. For some they may fall outside these ranges.

      As previously mentioned, zero issue with a business deciding to 'pass on' the cost rather than increase 'base price'.

      Not that invested in them being unable to be flexible enough and instead going 'flat fee'.

      It's the disclosure and the like

      • b3au on 16/06/2024 - 15:09
        -3

        But those example costs aren't what businesses are being charged though - businesses are (or are required to) only pasz on exactly what they are being charged.

        It also says 'most' and 'some' in your quote.

        Nothing about 'shouldn't'

        • Natt on 16/06/2024 - 16:34

          That's why I said it's a 'whole other issue'. Personally I think getting down that rabbit hole just isn't worth it.

          But what is.. knowing how much something is going to cost upfront regardless if you agree/disagree with how/what surcharges are being applied.

        • Bozman on 17/06/2024 - 07:41
          +1

          In most cases an average will be done, it’s near impossible to pass on exactly what you’re being charged as it depends on the card being used and system processing the charge, which is often unknown at POS (eg domestic card vs international card).

      • CalmLemons on 17/06/2024 - 18:54

        FYI NAB just up'd the credit card fees by 40% for some businesses.

        In one business I saw the visa fee go from 0.4% to 0.7%+the base fee.

        What people need ot understand is this 1-2% basically equates to 10-20% of the businesses net profit.

        Most businesses run a net profit of 5-20% of their TURNOVER.

        If you absorb 2% of your turnover in credit cards fees, this equates to (2/5%=40% of your net profit) to (2%/20%=10% of your net profit)

        TLDNR = Credit card fees can account for 10-40% of the profits of a business.

        • CurlCurl on 17/06/2024 - 20:43
          +4

          What people need ot understand is this 1-2% basically equates to 10-20% of the businesses net profit.

          What people need to understand is, businesses are RECOUPING an extra cost to their business, as they do with every other cost.

          Do you think the sugar, take away cups, paper napkins throw away bamboo cutlery, paper bags etc are free? Of course not.

          A coffee shop I visit does around 800 coffees a day and charges .04 cents for card transactions, that works out to $11,600 per year. That doesn't include the food sales. When you include food sales, bottled drink sales etc, it adds to many 1,000's of $. Do you expect the owner to lose that so you save a lousy 4 cents on a cup of coffee?

          • stewy on 19/06/2024 - 00:21
            +4

            @CurlCurl: You are forgetting that handling cash has costs too for a business (ie. slower transaction speed, time counting tills, maintaing a safe and float, cash in transit costs, etc)…

            I don't see businesses offsetting those costs against card fees, so it's just a blatant hidden cash grab. Plus it seems to be discouraging genuine price competition in the merchant facilities provider space as businesses seem to just pick whatever is most convenient for them.

            • CurlCurl on 19/06/2024 - 12:04

              @stewy:

              You are forgetting that handling cash has costs too for a business (ie. slower transaction speed, time counting tills, maintaing a safe and float, cash in transit costs, etc)…
              I don't see businesses offsetting those costs against card fees, so it's just a blatant hidden cash grab. Plus it seems to be discouraging genuine price competition in the merchant facilities provider space as businesses seem to just pick whatever is most convenient for them.

              Why would they offset it? You are forgetting those costs were already in built when cash was king. It may surprise you that people still pay cash so that still applies.

              • stewy on 19/06/2024 - 12:28
                +2

                @CurlCurl: You've answered your own question. If the cost of handling cash is already built into a product's price, then the business only needs to charge the additional cost of the CC fees to maintain the same margins. As a simplistic explaination, if handling cash costs say 0.5% once you factor the above mentioned costs in and the CC merchant charges 1.5%, then the surcharge for CC should only be ~1% to maintain the same margin. If they are passing on the full cost then its a cash grab to increase margin. This is ofcourse assuming the business is legitimately claiming their income, whereas many small businesses that want cash are probably doing that for tax evasion purposes.

  • holdenmg on 16/06/2024 - 14:17
    +17

    Card surcharges
    Businesses can charge a surcharge for paying by card, but the surcharge must not be more than what it costs the business to use that payment type.
    If a business charges a payment surcharge, it must be able to prove the costs it is based on.
    If there is no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the surcharge in the displayed price.

    https://www.accc.gov.au/business/pricing/card-surcharges

    • Roney on 17/06/2024 - 23:26

      And how can we find out if the business is not double dipping ie card surcharge and that incorporated in the menu price?

  • Subere on 16/06/2024 - 14:29
    +16

    Start using cash again. They want us to go cashless but I've noticed since Covid that a lot of businesses are now passing on the transaction fees instead of absorbing it like they used to. Cash is king.

    I've also noticed by inserting the EFTPOS card at Aldi that I avoid the fees. The paywave triggers the fees

    • b3au on 16/06/2024 - 14:32
      +2

      Generally when you use contactless, it goes via Visa or Mastercard.
      If you have an eftpos only card (eg CommBank call theirs a Keycard - https://www.commbank.com.au/banking/keycard.html) - you can tap this as it can only go via eftpos (so no Visa/Mastercard surcharge).

      Likewise for many cards in Apple Pay or Samsung Pay - for debit cards you can generally change between 'eftpos SAV' (and sometimes 'eftpos CHQ') and Visa/Mastercard before you tap.

      You pay the surcharge for using Visa/Mastercard, not for using contactless.

      (eftpos has other benefits like transactions are processed instantly, no "pending" transactions. Plus you can get cash out at some merchants, etc)

      • Natt on 16/06/2024 - 15:12
        +1

        Hmm that's relevant to the costs the business incurs.

        But most places just go with anything electronic = flat fee added to the cost.

        So if its $100 bill, they process/bill it at $101.50 at 'point of sale'.

        They apply that surcharge to gift cards too for instance.

        • b3au on 16/06/2024 - 15:13

          My comment was specifically in response to

          I've also noticed by inserting the EFTPOS card at Aldi that I avoid the fees. The paywave triggers the fees

          I just forgot to quote it.

          • Natt on 16/06/2024 - 15:20
            -1

            @b3au: I think a most 'bigger businesses' are doing OK with it.

            For instance I got an 'alert' my Amex credit card would attract surcharge at a big petrol station. Mastercard/Visa didn't.

            The medium-small businesses, not so much.

            Thanks for your tip on the Eftpos though, that's really useful.

            • b3au on 16/06/2024 - 15:26
              +1

              @Natt:

              Thanks for your tip on the Eftpos though, that's really useful.

              Obviously this only works if the business isn't being charged the same fee regardless of card type - places like Aldi or businesses who may be on older processing rates where eftpos has a flat cent fee or no fee vs Visa/Mastercard.

              But it is a great feature if your phone supports it (or if you still have an old eftpos only card)

              • Subere on 16/06/2024 - 16:26

                @b3au: It's really strange. I had my commbank contactless working fine for ages set to SAV.
                But couple months ago it suddenly failed to work at Woolies and Aldi. My only guess is because my card was set to SAV/EFTPOS and their POS didn't want to accept it.

                Its a debit MasterCard. Smaller businesses seem to just add the fees immediately even when you say EFTPOS. /Shrug

                • dbun1 on 18/06/2024 - 07:31
                  +1

                  @Subere: I think you have to insert the card to actually get the EFTPOS rate though?

                  I’m trying to test this now as I just got a new EFTPOS card that I’ve added to my digital wallet with the EFTPOS payment method selected rather than Visa.

                  I get what you mean though, some places add the fee automatically as soon as they see a card.

                  • b3au on 18/06/2024 - 16:32
                    +2

                    @dbun1: Visit Aldi, make one purchase using eftpos, and one using Visa.
                    One will have the surcharge and one will not :-)

                    Here's one I prepared earlier… https://imgur.com/a/QT30zVE

        • CurlCurl on 16/06/2024 - 17:16

          Hmm that's relevant to the costs the business incurs.

          You sound like the type of person that would scream 'wage theft' if you were once short changed 13 cents in your pay.

          Business pass on every cost to the customer. Supermarkets pass on, electricity, gas, cleaning, rubbish removal, trolley collections, workers comp, public liability etc.

          There is no free lunch.

        • apsilon on 16/06/2024 - 17:56

          But most places just go with anything electronic = flat fee added to the cost.

          For a lot of places it is a flat fee regardless of debit/cedit, insert, tap or swipe. Square is a common example where this is the case and is very popular with cafes and restaurants.

          • Natt on 16/06/2024 - 23:03

            @apsilon: Ah ha, that explains a lot. Cheers!

          • chrislinke on 17/06/2024 - 08:26
            -1

            @apsilon: yep but the flat fee must be the lowest possible fee available, e.g. less than 1% for Visa debit or eftpos.
            Those with flat fees at 1.5%+ are blatantly breaking ACCC’s laws.

            • apsilon on 17/06/2024 - 10:12
              +2

              @chrislinke: A business can pass on their actual cost and I can tell you that Square at least, no electronic payment method is under 1% as it doesn't differentiate debit from credit. The default rate (you can negotiate better rates if you're doing over $250k pa IIRC) for a card present transaction is 1.6%, even if you insert and select debit.

              The fees you're referring to are what ACCC claims is the average but they also state "Businesses can charge a surcharge for paying by card, but the surcharge must not be more than what it costs the business to use that payment type." so in cases like Square and I'm sure others, their cost is above those listed averages.

      • txb on 17/06/2024 - 13:24

        Would you know off the top of your head if, then, there's difference between paying via your phone vs physical card insertion (same card)?

        • b3au on 17/06/2024 - 13:32
          +1

          At the moment, the phone will only present what you pick; you have the option of Visa/Mastercard, eftpos SAV or eftpos CHQ.
          If you select eftpos SAV and tap your phone, the terminal will only see eftpos SAV.
          This is treated exactly the same as inserting the physical card and pressing eftpos SAV.

          A physical card will generally have multiple contactless 'apps' on there, but Mastercard/Visa will generally be the highest priority when you tap it at a terminal.
          Terminals can actually opt for eftpos - this is called Least Cost Routing https://www.rba.gov.au/payments-and-infrastructure/debit-car… - but there's no guarantee that it's enabled - eg Aldi.

          If you can choose before you tap - which Apple Pay offers with most card issuers, Samsung Pay with some card issuers - then you decide whether it goes via eftpos or Visa/Mastercard.

          (Google Pay doesn't support 'dual network' Mastercard/eftpos or Visa/eftpos cards yet, Google only supports eftpos only cards which are getting more and more rare for banks to issue)

          • txb on 17/06/2024 - 13:39

            @b3au: Aha, reading the first 3 paragraphs had me increasingly confused (I use google pay, so have never had the option to pick which account to pay via - sav, chq, cr) the terminal price will appear, I hover and away it processes.

            So just to be clear, any debit card on my google pay will auto route through EFTPOS? I've never had any issues with the kaleidoscope of cards I've added throughout the years.

            • b3au on 17/06/2024 - 13:42
              +1

              @txb: If you have a debit Mastercard or debit Visa in Google Pay - it will always go via Visa/Mastercard.

              If your bank issues an eftpos only card (eg ANZ used to issue an 'ANZ Access' card which could be added to Google Pay, but they've stopped issuing new ones) in Google Pay, then it will always go via eftpos.

              If you had a debit Mastercard or debit Visa in Apple Pay or Samsung Pay, you would have the choice before tapping which you wanted to use.
              Here's a screenshot of how it looks in Apple Pay

              Hopefully Google is working on adding this.

              (And the reserve bank is also pushing for least cost routing to come to digital wallets too, so eventually it will work like the plastic card - even though you may have Visa selected in your digital wallet, if eftpos is cheaper, the terminal will make the transaction happen via eftpos instead of Visa)

              • txb on 17/06/2024 - 14:03

                @b3au: Ahh I get you. Thank you for explaining this👍

          • dbun1 on 18/06/2024 - 07:33

            @b3au: This is good to know. I’ve read conflicting information on this. Some seem to suggest that the only way to get the EFTPOS rate is by inserting the physical card.

    • cyan00FFFF on 16/06/2024 - 22:26

      Aldi uses least cost routing so even if you use contactless it should go over eftpos if your card supports it.

      • Poor Ass on 17/06/2024 - 11:49
        +1

        no they don't

        you tap it goes to credit VISA / Master (cc surcharge applies but is ok if you have HSBC global)

        you insert it goes ETFPOS

    • gromit on 17/06/2024 - 09:54
      +4

      I would expect cash will start incurring the largest surcharge sooner or later as it is by far the most expensive for most businesses to transact with.

      • steven107 on 17/06/2024 - 13:14
        +3

        This! I don't understand why more businesses don't get this. Or if they do, they choose to ignore it. With cash you have to have it in a cash drawer all day, count it all up at the end of the day, put it somewhere safe over night, and unless you're an idiot you have it insured against loss or theft. Then next business day you have to get that cash to the bank. Again, insured 'til you get it deposited.

        Oh, and you have to send someone to the bank with the cash, so there's a time/wages cost there too.

        With a card payment there's none of that, the $$$ are in your account before the customer has left your shop.

        I'm happy to use a card to save both me and the shop owner a bit of time and money but not if there's a surcharge to do so, I'll hand over some cash instead.

        • Brianqpr on 17/06/2024 - 15:26

          Also the risk of theft, whether by employees or someone else. Plus cash handling errors.

      • grasstown on 17/06/2024 - 17:34

        Until you get rid of cash then they charge what they want

    • Brianqpr on 17/06/2024 - 15:25

      Then watch them add a fee for using cash.

    • nomadspartan on 17/06/2024 - 15:32

      I used to insert all the time as well, but I'm starting to notice that even when you insert and select to pay via eftpos, you still get charged the card fee. It seems like businesses have caught on. Can still avoid the 0.5% transaction fee at Aldi using this method though.

      Another advantage of paying this way is that the transaction shows up immediately in your bank transactions, instead of being "pending", so if you're trying to rack up transactions on the last day of the month to meet your bonus interest requirements, this the way to do it.

  • JimmyF on 16/06/2024 - 15:20

    And if I have no choice but to pay that surcharge, stop displaying the 'base price'. Its not $20 if there is no way I can actually just give you $20 and make it mine.

    If there is no way to pay the price on the menu without a surcharge, this is illegal.

    But basically assume a credit card surcharge these days. If you don't get one, then yay

    • Natt on 16/06/2024 - 15:23
      +1

      That's pretty much how I am looking at it too. So I have a bit more cash kicking around now :)

      Wonder if we will see a shift there?

      I really don't want to become like the US though, where the price advertised = not price paid with all their weird taxes!

      • JimmyF on 16/06/2024 - 15:27

        Wonder if we will see a shift there?

        Not really, these places are not making money out of the credit card fees, it is basically what they are getting charged by the banks etc.

        So a $20 sale + CC fees, is the same to them as you paying $20 cash.

        Some would say the cost of handling cash etc costs businesses, but it will depend on how far the bank etc is away etc.

        The real saving is for you not paying bank fees. Its crazy that the banks are skimming 1.5% of all transactions!

        • askbargain on 16/06/2024 - 15:34

          handling cash allows businesses to pay cash in hand :)

          • JimmyF on 16/06/2024 - 15:38

            @askbargain: Yes I'm aware they like cash that disappears off the books as well!

            But honestly these places are not making money from the CC fees like some people think.

            But if places are mostly getting paid via card, then they should just roll the fees into the prices. The worst thing the ACCC ever did was allow credit card fees to added on and allow tiny writing for the weekend surcharges.

            This broke the Australian way of what you see is what you pay.

          • gromit on 17/06/2024 - 10:36

            @askbargain: handling cash puts insurance rates and cash handling costs through the roof, especially nowadays. Unless you are completely setup for tax evasion I would be surprised if cash was cheaper for the business.

        • Natt on 16/06/2024 - 16:43
          +1

          Ah my bad, I meant people using more cash vs EFT, as they learn to avoid the fees.

          Then we get back to the whole bank branches closing etc. I suspect the cost of handling cash might actually be more if you broke down convenience, risk of having actual cash on-site etc.

          • JimmyF on 16/06/2024 - 17:04
            +1

            @Natt:

            Then we get back to the whole bank branches closing etc. I suspect the cost of handling cash might actually be more if you broke down convenience, risk of having actual cash on-site etc.

            Yep the cost of handling cash can be higher than the CC fees. Someone has to count it, bag it, take it to the bank, wait in line etc.

            But oddly that can't be passed on unlike CC fees.

            • Grunntt on 17/06/2024 - 09:33
              -1

              @JimmyF:

              Yep the cost of handling cash can be higher than the CC fees. Someone has to count it, bag it, take it to the bank, wait in line etc.
              But oddly that can't be passed on unlike CC fees.

              Are you saying that the business just absorbs those costs and doesn't pass them on in the price charged?

              How they get away with these add-on charges rather than just being included in the price comes across to me as devious - especially as you regularly see the push to going cashless.

        • Gareth on 16/06/2024 - 17:06

          So a $20 sale + CC fees, is the same to them as you paying $20 cash

          That is what they claim, however the costs of handling cash are not zero - and is increasing. The cost of staff storing and banking cash (if you can find a branch) may not be as clear as a list of fees on a statement, but it does exist. That is of course before you consider potential of hold-ups and employee theft.

          I feel that in most cases businesses should absorb these costs in their cost structure, but the easy method is pointing to the nasty banks and saying they're the reason the customer is paying more.

          Edit: ninja'd by Natt :-)

          • JimmyF on 16/06/2024 - 17:09

            @Gareth:

            I feel that in most cases businesses should absorb these costs in their cost structure, but the easy method is pointing to the nasty banks and saying they're the reason the customer is paying more.

            Agreed…. They used to just absorb these costs, but then the ACCC got weak and allowed them to pass it on, so guess what they all did!? Instant 1.5% price increase via stealth.

            • Grunntt on 17/06/2024 - 09:35
              -1

              @JimmyF:

              They used to just absorb these costs, but then the ACCC got weak and allowed them to pass it on

              No, they used to include it in the price they charged - listing separately let them raise the prices and blame the banks.

              • JimmyF on 17/06/2024 - 09:43
                -1

                @Grunntt:

                No, they used to include it in the price they charged - listing separately let them raise the prices and blame the banks.

                Reading is hard isn't it…. As that is what I said in the comment above. So thanks for repeating it.

                • Grunntt on 17/06/2024 - 09:46
                  -1

                  @JimmyF:

                  Reading is hard isn't it…. As that is what I said in the comment above.

                  I take 'absorbing the cost' as not passing it on to the customer. Have you ever considered that others may take a different meaning than what you think you wrote clearly?

                  Writing unambiguously is hard isn't it.

                  • JimmyF on 17/06/2024 - 09:53
                    -2

                    @Grunntt:

                    I take 'absorbing the cost' as not passing it on to the customer.

                    Correct, so as you said, "they used to include it in the price" and as I said absorbing the cost of CC fees.

                    Have you ever considered that others may take a different meaning than what you think you wrote clearly?

                    How else do you take "They used to just absorb these costs, but then the ACCC got weak and allowed them to pass it on, so guess what they all did!? Instant 1.5% price increase via stealth."

                    Its pretty clear it was absorb/included by the business but now it is not and passed on

                    • Grunntt on 17/06/2024 - 21:53
                      -1

                      @JimmyF: Absorbing the cost means that they do not pass it on to the customer by including it in the price - you seem to think absorbing the cost means it is included in a higher price so therefore it's not passed on to the customer.
                      Once they were allowed by the ACCC to pass on card fees openly (that they already included in their prices) you seem to think this is how they now recover that specific cost. It's always been recovered in the pricing - ie it's not been absorbed by the business, it's been passed on to the customer.

                      Businesses that choose to absorb a cost tend to try to reduce other inputs rather than charge the customer more. Increasing the price to account for the fee (previous to the ACCC decision) is no different to charging it as a standalone fee - ie it's not absorbed by the business as it's part of the price paid.

                      Anyway - semantics, and understanding correct terminology, are not your strong points so I'll leave this thread at this point.

                      • JimmyF on 17/06/2024 - 22:23
                        -1

                        @Grunntt:

                        Absorbing the cost means that they do not pass it on to the customer by including it in the price - you seem to think absorbing the cost means it is included in a higher price so therefore it's not passed on to the customer.

                        When did I ever say it was absorbed and they had a higher price as a result?

                        Once they were allowed by the ACCC to pass on card fees openly (that they already included in their prices) you seem to think this is how they now recover that specific cost. It's always been recovered in the pricing - ie it's not been absorbed by the business, it's been passed on to the customer.

                        Again not what I said, I said they did a sneaky 1.5% price rise by shifting the CC fee costs to the user when the ACCC changed their minds and allowed them to pass it on.

                        One day it was $4 for a coffee, paid by card or cash. Then ACCC allowed CC fees to be passed on and it becomes $4 for cash, or $4 + 1.5% for CC aka $4.06.

                        So a sneaky 6c price rise for a cost that was ABSORBED before.

                        Anyway - semantics, and understanding correct terminology, are not your strong points so I'll leave this thread at this point.

                        LOL rich coming from you who read it wrong and been doubling down with your mansplaining ever since.

                        But we are done for sure.

    • Brianqpr on 18/06/2024 - 14:48

      If the surcharge is disclosed on the menu then I very much doubt it is illegal.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join