Help - Any Tips on a Tax Audit? Problems Dealing with The ATO

So Im in the middle of an intimidation process with the ATO. Apparently my earnings: expenses ratio is too high for the ATO's liking, and they want to audit my return from 2017.

I had to scan and send in all my receipts, spreadsheets and log books, which I did.
But a few of the receipts have faded. Originals can be read in the right light, but not the scanned copies. I asked to take them physically in, or post them in…denied!
Found old credit card statements to cross reference the faded receipts "unlikely to accept". But "send them in". A few days later, I get a call. Nah, we won't accept them. Plus where is your vehicle invoice to support your logbook.

My vehicle books were stolen (with the original invoice inside in 2018 - I filed the police report). So have kept my insurance value, plus a red book valuation range which is $1500 higher than what I'm my claiming even at the bottom of the range. I put a post on here the other day for ideas. Denied! But I did find a tax ruling TR 97/24, that shows a substitution can be used if something is stolen (and my claim pattern has been consistent for 10 years). So questioning this "denial".

Now my logs show way more than 5000km a year (they accepted my log book). So can at least use the cents per Km method…so I thought…see later…

Now I had a rental (pulling a peasley $150/ week) in a mining town that collapsed. Cream on top was that it was mismanaged, and didn't have a tenant for the entire year. The ATO wanted proof that it was available for rent. Back then, I asked the state manager of a major national Real Estate company to look at my property, and he fired the agent immediately. He said they stuffed something up, and my property wasnt matching prospective tenants in their system. But I saw it was up for rent on RE.com (and I listed it on socials as well). So it was available. But no tenant cemented. However, with no rent, the agent never gave me a statement. So the State Manager wrote to the ATO confirming they indeed managed my property (before, during and after 2017, and it was indeed available for rent and always has been. Also confirmed they terminated an employee's position. The ATO won't accept this either.
Again, doesn't conform to their own "genuine attempt to rent" resource on their website, which suggests the agents witness statement is enough.

So been given an ultimatum. They remove ALL my work deductions (vehicle, protective clothing, travel etc ) from 2017 to 2024 (even though I have already sent them receipts & logs, and some stuff doesn't even need substantiation!). Plus they remove my property for 2017 and 2020 (as I reduced the rent in 2020 to get a tenant). But they will leave the other years on the property as is.

Alternatively, they want to audit every aspect of all my tax returns every year from 2017 onwards and I have just a few weeks to, and I quote "email them all in".

Basically forgo all my actual substantiated receipts, and they won't bust my balls. It's the EOFY… It's a terrible time of year for this. It's blatant stand over tactics.

So after ideas? Taking this to a chartered accountant is going to cost more than my return. My rents are bugger all, and my bank interest is on $150k. I feel they know this. But I'm not an idiot, and I can read their documents and rulings. I have a subscription to the Independent Taxation Examiner and know 99% of what I have claimed for. The 1% I didn't know, I kept call logs (and recordings) for the 50+ calls I made to the ATO that simply ended in them hanging up after a "too busy message". Or when I did get through (tried outside hours), we don't know the answer to that…all recorded and documented. If these get wiped in the audit, fair enough. As long as it is right, I'm happy.

So I'm m thinking of filing a formal complaint with the Commonwealth Ombudsman, listing all the ATO rulings and URLs I have conformed with, but they are denying or being unecessarily inflexible with.
As for receipts that a scanner can't pick up….come and look at them, or accept the credit card statement. They are legit and visible, just not scanable. If you don't want to send out an actual auditor, then just accept them (and we are talking about $500 total).
I also want to know why they want me to give up on my receipted claims I have already sent in. How is this remotely right?
Lastly, they are saying I can't claim my scanner, computer, power or internet…yet want me to use them for the audit (not a chance)….and even if I did, you can't "email in " several thousand receipts, invoices and logs through an email inbox anyway.

It's so bad, I was convinced I was being scammed at first.

Seems very amateur. Need it to go away, or at least leave it to September when the busy time of year has passed.

Any helpful ideas appreciated.

Cheers

Related Stores

Australian Taxation Office
Australian Taxation Office

Comments

      • +1

        Unless the ATO deems that the lodgements are fraudulent, or trigger the anti-avoidance provisions, in which case there are no limits.

        • True - but that's a high threshold. Which then would lead to more follow up questions for the OP

          • +2

            @bemybubble: From experience, I'd suggest $30k of deductions per year on $120k of income would certainly trigger it

            • +1

              @RMBC: Late lodgement peeps..reasons provided earlier (summary ..ever tried to call the ATO).

              As for the trigger… it's a massive disconnect between people working out of a Sydney office and a person working in rural Australia.

              They can't comprehend it's 1200km to travel for a training program…each way.

              They can't comprehend you could rent a 3 bed home with a pool for $120 per week. Why is my claimed rental income only $8000 a year, then $2500 council rates, $1000 water rates, 20% agent fees (because the rent is low, the % management is high), $1500 insurance. It's reality I'm afraid ATO.

              They can't comprehend fuel is $2.90 a litre.

              They cant comprehend a tradie call and work is 4 x the cost of metro. All those govy rebate schemes end at the city boundaries. Country people miss out on all these things. Not many know this.

              So basically my $30k deductions would be $10k metro…but I don't work in a metro location.

              I'm just following the rules they set for my deductions..but they 'aren't the average' being the reason she gave me.

              I'd hope not….my cost are way more then the 'average'

              • @tunzafun001: Well, then go through the audit and stick to your ground. If any of the aspect in the audit process is unsatisfactory, take them to the court.

                • @leiiv: But there is nothing to compensate your time. Going back 7 years, and not only scanning etc , but justifying each section is a big task. They have only given a short time, which means LWOP from work.
                  The full option (while the most fair all-round) is also the most expensive.

                  I've already experienced their time wasting. Ie. Sent them all the things they wanted, then they decided they won't use them after all. I logged 11 hrs for nothing. Well, they were trying to catch me out. But I produced what they thought I wouldn't be able to produce. Then change their mind once the document was brought to light. Then want something else , that shouldnt be required as I had already met the tax law substantiation requirement.

                  Doing a time: cost analysis. I'm better off giving up a legit claim for a couple of thousand, vs extended time off work.
                  Totally, morally wrong. But numbers don't lie.

                  Im hoping their grounds for the audit (as per above links) is found unfounded. So their ultimatum is invalid. I've sent in the 2017 year. If there is nothing wrong there, then I don't see the justification of going on, especially when the pattern doesn't change 5 years either side.

                  Or I just take a couple thousand hit. Remind myself governments are no better than a mob and move on. But what a great time to be a couple of thousand out of pocket!

                  • @tunzafun001: Yes, you will lose your time. But it is at their discretion whether to audit or not. They will lose time too if you are in the right, arguably more than you. But if you yield now, they win. And they are likely to do it again in the future.
                    I think what you have to do regularly is to scan your physical receipts and invoices every time you receive them, put all of them in one yearly folder, so they are ready to go when needed.

  • +2

    Not sure why everyone seems to be attacking you. But I for one, hope that you get a favourable outcome.

    • +4

      Because they are taking the piss out of that ATO claiming mid $30ks in deductions for years on end and wondering why they are getting audited!

      • +1

        We aren't talking tax fraud/evasion here. OP has explained what his interpretation of the ATO rulings are and provided his evidence to them.

        • +4

          I mean sure, I guess it will really come down to how much the ATO accepts his layman interpretation of their rules are? (Also: if you are "reckless" with what you claim, there's additional penalties. The ATO doesn't encourage "having a go" which it comes to filling out your tax return)

          You can have all the "yeah but my boss and COVID and the dog ate my homework"s lined up but at the end of the day $30K of deductions a year seems like it's time to fill out the F1ND-0UT form and pay the fee

        • +4

          We aren't talking tax fraud/evasion here

          Well hard to say at this point, that is what the audit is all about. If the OP is claiming invalid items, and lets be honest, $30k in deductions for a PAYG employee on $122k/yr is a LOT of deductions, then yes we might be talking tax fraud/evasion.

          OP has explained what his interpretation of the ATO rulings are and provided his evidence to them

          But it isn't the OP interpretations of the ATO rulings that count, it is the ATOs interpretation that matters.

          • @JimmyF: Yes, I understand that it is the ATO ruling that counts at the end of the day and that's all well and fine IF they give OP a fair go with his submission. Obviously only hearing OP's side of the story here but for example, OP said he would hand in the faded receipts which can be read in person, but this was denied. He hasn't forged the receipts (as far as we're led to believe), but that doesn't seem like they are giving OP an opportunity to justify his deductions.

            • @orly:

              Yes, I understand that it is the ATO ruling that counts at the end of the day and that's all well and fine IF they give OP a fair go with his submission

              OP can explain their interpretation of the tax law all they like, but that doesn't mean the ATO will agree with their take and will certainly come down to how many 'wrong' takes of the ATO law the OP has.

              Based on some of the claims by the OP, I think they have a lot of wrong takes.

              OP said he would hand in the faded receipts which can be read in person, but this was denied.

              I'm surprised they can't be sent into the ATO but if the ATO audit is provide a digital copy of everything, then they are the rules the OP must jump through and find a way to scan them. OP believes, which Google backs them up, that heating the receipt a little bit with a hair dryer will make the text readable again. So they have a pathway to try but haven't.

              Obviously only hearing OP's side of the story here

              Bingo!

        • +2

          It's borderline tax evasion looking at his numbers and claims.

      • $30k is bugger all in a rural setting… I'm guessing you are in the city?

        Basically, 400km is a drive to the shop. Fuel can be double the city, trades are 4 x or more. Not many govy incentives make there way into the outback .

        The reality is I do 90% of the maintenance and repairs myself (so not claimable). But I just don't have the funds to pay someone else.

        My bathroom and kitchen was trashed. Insurance charged a $500 excess for each item (as they say each item is a separate incident). So $500 for the door, $500 for each cupboard door, $500 for the benchtop.
        Ended up being $17000 in excesses payable for a mid $20k repair.

        Busted my nut after hours, weekends and did it all myself for around $5000. Only $600 resources claimable (well, none now with the ATO proposal).

        Then only to have it trashed again in a break in. Nothing claimable (painting, rehinging etc etc. I already claimed the paint etc).

        Anyone who thinks a landlord is easy is a muppet. If it was, we would all do it. Well, maybe if you have money, a landlord might be easier. ..but the ATO won't comprehend it.

        $30k is bugger all. Remember I only get 1/3 of that back. If I had the money to appoint labor. It would be double that and more. Shit is expensive!

    • +3

      @orly
      Thanks for this..truely.

      Was wondering if it was just me thinking this. Not sure how the world got itself here..but it did.
      Hope you have a great day and appreciate the sentiment.

  • Man, that sounds brutal. I hope it never happens to me! Especially dating back to 2017! That was another lifetime ago.

    • lol I can track my life through my tax filings.
      No history until 2001 = would have posted paper returns - I probably have boxes with receipts somewhere (I wonder if they're still readable);
      2001-2015 was the Etax20yy.exe program era;
      2016 they must have introduced myTax.
      I have depreciation schedules since 2004, a low value pool spreadsheet since 2015, and a spreadsheet with summary of deductions since 2006.

      • +1

        I think we are the same person. Identical..
        loved Etax.. it actually worked! Auditor also on the same page with that.

  • Just be aware that you're dealing with soulless accountants with no personality or emotions.

    In other words, they don't see you as a person with financial problems etc. They see you as a set of rules that either are or aren't being followed.

    In any correspondence with them, you may as well be talking to a machine.

    • +3

      they don't see you as a person with financial problems etc

      The ATO isn't a source of income if you have financial problems by fudging your 'returns' to get money.

      They see you as a set of rules that either are or aren't being followed.

      That is how the tax laws work….. They are pretty black/white really.

      • +2

        Yep, no question there. Just trying to dissuade the OP of the notion that the ATO are there to help them do their tax correctly or be reasonable.

        So yes, as you say, black and white. Not the slightest shade of grey.

        • For sure. They are also terrible listeners. Always ask a question, but never waits for a reply. Just talks over you. The only good side is I asked her if it's ok that I record the conversation, and she went "uh huh" and kept taking about something I answered 10 mins prior.
          Actual auditor was jaded and over it. He hated his job, and tried to work with me (ie. he said, send me the iffy to read receipts), actually listened and knew Tax law. Gave me options. But he has been turfed, and now have a "case manager" who doesn't know what TS 97/24 means.

          So black and white ..not so much. I'll give you my example.

          Here is the ATOs definition on genuine attempt to rent.

          https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/investments-…

          Now I have the head manager of Century 21 emailing the ATO saying they managed my property and were unable to find a tenant in 2017/18. He explained they don't produce a statement if there is no rental income (as they deduct $25 from rental income for statement generation). He also says they fired the manager for poor performance in managing my property. But, in fairness, core data shows 22% vacancy rates in that year (1 in 5 were empty). He also cited the requirement for a COC (elect connection that has been disabled for 12 months or more) in late July 18… Is also happy to put that in a Stat Dec.

          They won't accept that as evidence for the link above. She said I need the document for when I signed on to Century 21. Nowhere in that document does it say that.

          So I think that's a Inspector General case.

          As for my work deductions. They accepted all my log books match my j&p. Happy with the receipts they could read. But, then decide an ultimatum that they remove all of them to let the property stand?? Based on… nothing!

          I think someone has a KPI to reduce the avg return by 15% ..this is their process.

          • @tunzafun001:

            Core data shows 22% vacancy rates in that year (1 in 5 were empty).

            So lots of empty places in the town, nearly 1 in 4….

            They won't accept that as evidence for the link above. She said I need the document for when I signed on to Century 21. Nowhere in that document does it say that.

            The ATO link you provided does say this

            Things that may show a property isn't genuinely available for rent include:
            the location, condition of the property, or accessibility of the property mean that it's unlikely tenants will seek to rent it

            One could say that with nearly 1 in 4 properties empty, the property was in a location aka town that was unlikely to see tenants wanting to rent it. While not your fault directly, it is the reason the ATO are asking for a signed contract with the REA that they are managing/actively seeking to rent your place out.

            But I agree, if the REA is saying they had been trying etc, then the ATO should accept this.

  • +1

    If you want it to go away, just let them do their thing and object later.

    I'm not sure why you're hung up on claiming stuff (scanner, internet, electricity etc) to complete the audit, that's just… not a thing. Presumably you should've kept records, if you need to send them a thousand emails of receipts, then just send them. Looks like you're claiming a wide range of deductions, then in one document, explain how each deduction relates to your work and itemise with receipts. The back and forth is a waste of time, I don't know how it is at the ATO these days but noone meets at the office anymore. Not even sure if your auditor is at the same city?

    • @countingbeans

      Well, your name suggests I should listen

      Auditor is now gone, I only get a case manager… Sydney based. They have no concept of regional Australia (costs and scale of travel). But they did accept my % log book/s after submitting my j&p.

      Can you give me insight into the object later process? She mentioned this. But gave no details.

      They propose, removing ALL my work based deductions, and my vacant property. Then leave the rest alone.

      Then said submit an objection for the others later. Also said any future successful objection will be paid with positive interest.

      Alternative is a full audit…7 years worth.

      But I don't know how to lodge an objection, is the objection process guaranteed, how long have i got to do it, how many times can I make changes? And most importantly…if I accept the proposal now and do what you say..what is to stop you doing a full audit anyway later? Is your proposal to "leave the rest alone" indefinite and legally binding?

      I have emailed these questions. But would love your take on them. What would you do with this proposal?

      (and I absolutely will be lodging objections, as I have always used the ATO guidelines for all my claims, plus read many case law cases for precedence).

      • Many many many moons ago I worked in the objections area for a short time, so things may have changed by now. But it's just an area where another person looks at your case, and make a decision. They're supposed to be completely separate from the original person who did the audit. You can object by writing a letter or they have a form. (https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/your-tax-ret…) But you can only do it after they've issued the amended assessment - within 60 days after that.

        Not sure about their proposal about leaving the rest, I wouldn't trust them unless it's in writing! But it sounds like they already made their decision, and it's just going around in circles. If it's possible to see their reasons for denying your claims, then you can start preparing your reasons why they're wrong and use that in your objection.

        • @countingbeans

          Thanks, really appreciate this. I asked all these questions, but only got links for answers…that don't answer my questions.
          I do have the proposals in writing, but not the time frames. He said 2 years to lodge an objection on the phone . I was more interested in the minimum time (reasons later).

          The actual proposals are strange. Basically the same, except..

          1) We turf all work claims and "questioned property". Process and release the rest. Object, and submit work stuff / property
          within 2 years. No time given for this objection process. Problem with this is child support. Let's say my return is $80k. They turf claims..and it becomes $110k. Objection sticks and we come back to $80k. Child support will request the $30k difference. There is no process to adjust it the other way if it all goes back to $80k. So I'm going to lose here (to the ex at least..I guess - who never earnt a single cent of income in 18 years…allegedly. So I pay the lot…plus had a non earning property..which actually adds on to CS). Unless the objection is super quick…and lands before CS process it..which will mean a AAT case…and I just had one as my employer got my group certificate wrong by $50k. I was successful..but will need to do all that again…if I can.

          2) Give you 28 days to submit evidence instead of turfing. But I can't upload all my receipts anyway (faded). Might be able to substitute some (ie they gave fuel example, use manufacturer avg litres per hundred instead - no idea at what price per litre though). But my servicing ($750), receipt is half gone. Have the credit card statement name that matches. But it seems this one receipt might be enough to cancel all the others. This audit has to be 100% or nothing?

          No idea what happens after 28 days with option 2 ( if it isn't 100% substantiated)…which sounds like is likely with the receipts and the credit card statements not accepted). Also, reality is I have no chance of getting it ALL done in 28 days with current work load. But at least I have 28 days more to find an accountant and get my objection ready to go?

          Does option 2, then just go to Option 1 then by default anyway?

          Basically I'm thinking option 2. Gather everything..but submit nothing (as it just leads to pointless exercises 'ie Neither a full domain listing history, nor a state manager statement cut it anyway. So I shouldn't have even bothered.
          Then be well prepared to Object as soon as I can past the 28 days. This will put me in mid July, and hoping less of the "we are reducing your laundry claim by $2.40" stuff. Sound logical?

          Really appreciate your insight here to the 4 questions above. As I can't get it from the ATO themselves.

  • The word “scammed” has lost all meaning

    • The meaning has clearly changed to mean anything they don't agree with!

  • So I'm m thinking of filing a formal complaint with the Commonwealth Ombudsman

    Barking up the wrong tree here - Inspector General of Taxation is who you need to reach out to.

    • OP is going to have a fun time if someone picks up their complaint. It would mean a full in depth audit of their returns to work out who is correct.

      So that might not go the way they want it to!

      • +2

        Not necessarily. Inspector general is the watchdog for the ato. Wouldn’t flag anything. Once it’s in audit it’s in there.

        His best bet is to get an accountant on board to go through his mess. Make a voluntary disclosure if need be. And move on

        • Inspector general is the watchdog for the ato

          I never said the Inspector general was doing the audit, but for them to make a ruling on who is right and wrong, the OP books will need to be fully audited to confirm if they are legit, would they not? As that is what the complaint is all about!

          • @JimmyF: Not really - if the OP is complaining about how the audit is being handled, that's all the IGT will look at. Not the actual audit itself…

            If the IGT is happy with how it's being handled then the OP is stuffed :P

            • @bemybubble: Thanks for this. I think I will be lodging about the process.

              This is it ..

              "Please send us your logbooks and receipts".. done.

              "This isn't usual for your job selection"

              I explain the ATO doesn't have a drop box for my job, but had to make a selection, went for best fit. Ok, "Please send us your j&p".

              Absolute nightmare to find (won it in 2014). But do. Send it in. They accept it.
              Says it is consistent with your logs and we are happy with it. But some of your receipts are missing.
              I say, yeah, they don't scan well. The auditor said send them in. where am I sending them? She says "no, we can't accept original receipts". I say, what about taking them somewhere, stat decs etc? She says …I'll get back to you.

              Gets back to me. We can't accept the receipts other than scans.
              Plus we see your property had no rent. Why is that? I explain it. Said the mining town collapsed in 2017. It happens.. regularly. I will ask Century 21 to produce a statement (as they don't send them when vacant). I email them, cc in the ATO. He responds with their process around no statements produced when no tenant in place (as their charges come out of rental income). But verifies my statement is true and correct and they managed my property and were looking for a tenant.

              She gets back to me with the proposal of wiping ALL my work deductions …

              AND … wiping my claim for said property (because I don't have the sign on document when I appointed Century 21 as my agent).

              I sent her the ATO links to what constitutes a genuine attempt to rent.

              https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/investments-…

              Nowhere does it say about this document needing to be retained. For sure its evidence and would comply to the link, but so is a manager stating they managed my property. She says the decision stands (appeal 1).

              As for work based wipe.. she has based that on a handful of missing meal and fuel receipts (which are consistent over my 10 years of claims). I suggest TR 94/27 is innacted, or just get someone to bl00dy eyeball my receipts. Doesn't know what TR94/27 is… you have 48hrs to take the deal.
              (appeal 2).

              Says you can log an objection/ change it all later. But provides no details and doesn't have knowledge of that actual process (appeal 3).

              • +1

                @tunzafun001: Just remember the onus of proof is always on the taxpayer. They can assert all they want and you have to discharge that. Not the other way around…

                If your property wasn’t rented then it needs to be genuinely available for rent. If it was normally they would easily tell by checking realestate.com.au or similar. If it’s not on there then you absolutely would need to prove to them it’s available for rent and, if you can’t, then they have every right to deny the claim.

                Honestly get a tax agent involved. The time and effort you describe would have been solved quite easily by those who know how to handle it

                • @bemybubble:

                  Just remember the onus of proof is always on the taxpayer. They can assert all they want and you have to discharge that. Not the other way around…

                  Correct….. A taxpayer can claim anything they want on tax, but during an audit they have to prove it was a 'valid' claim.

                  It is about how the ATO views the laws/rules, not the taxpayer.

                • @bemybubble: It was up for rent on RE.com

                  Apparently that is not sufficient evidence… though again, my interpretation of the ATOs "genuinely available for rent" suggests it definitely is.

                  But yep, I'm making calls now to find one.

                  • @tunzafun001: Yea that is wrong. If it’s online to the public and so long as you’re not deliberately knocking back applications.

                    • @bemybubble: Definitely wanted a tenant..I had to meet with the bank as I was struggling to make repayments without the rent income…ATO decide a further kick in the nuts is appropriate action.

                      As I said earlier. The only evidence they will accept is my sign on letter to the Real Estate manager.

                      Not historic RE, not my own attempts
                      (I also put it on Gumtree and Facebook), and not a statement from the head manager of the managing agent. Probably something that will get up with AAT in a heart beat….but there appears no penalty to the ATO (other than interest).

                      • @tunzafun001: I suggest you look at s 900-195 ITAA97 too op

                        SECTION 900-195 Commissioner's discretion to review failure to substantiate
                        900-195 Not doing something necessary to follow the rules in this Division does not affect your right to a deduction if the nature and quality of the evidence you have to substantiate your claim satisfies the Commissioner:

                        (a) that you incurred the expense; and

                        (b) that you are entitled to deduct the amount you claim.

              • @tunzafun001:

                based that on a handful of missing meal

                Are you camping away from your home base?

                • +2

                  @JimmyF: Dude…let it go.
                  The ATO have already green lighted my expenses.
                  But for one last examination. Yes my job involves stints several hours away for 3 -6 days, 6 times a year. No meal allowance are provided, as it is "tax deductible". But this means I only get 30 odd % actually back.

                  • @tunzafun001:

                    Dude…let it go

                    Just asking, as your claims are vast and wide!

                    Yes my job involves stints several hours away for 3 -6 days, 6 times a year. No meal allowance are provided, as it is "tax deductible". But this means I only get 30 odd % actually back.

                    Crappy company not to provide meal allowances if requiring you to work away from your home base.

  • +3

    Find a good tax agent and use them. The ATO is much easier to deal with through a tax agent, and the agent will also, hopefully, advise you on whether the claims are legitimate. Assuming you choose not to utilise a tax agent, and the ATO disagrees with your position, the next step, after the amended assessments are issued, would be to request a review from the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, or AAT.

    At the AAT you'll need to present your evidence/information, the ATO will present theirs, and the AAT will decide. If that goes against you and you want to keep pursuing it, the next step is court. From that point on it gets very expensive, and based on the numbers you're discussing, this would not be worthwhile.

    • +1

      Can vouch for this. Go through an agent. Don't try and do it all on your own. They have special portal with the ATO.

    • +1

      I went to a chartered accountant today. He said he hasn't seen this before in all his years and said he can't explain their process and can't help.

      Suggested trying a bigger national accounting firm… if not IGTO.

      Thinking Hood Sweeney ?

      • I have a lawyer who specialises in audits who can help if you need. Feel free to pm if you require

      • Apologies for the late reply. As far as audits go, it doesn't seem that abnormal; it appears there has been a pattern of larger than usual claims over multiple years, so I understand why they are interested.

        I can't comment on Hood Sweeney, however, based one experience, I would expect most city based firms, of any size, should be able to assist.

        At the end of the day, the ATO only administers the tax legislation, and apllying it to determine what is and isn't applicable; they can't tell you how to spend your money. For example, both first class and economy class tickets can be tax deductible, so just because the claim is large does not automatically mean it's not deductible, just that a review is much more likely

        • +1

          @RMBC

          I thought that's how it would work..BUT..

          I think it's now about an executive salary indexed against a KPI (ie get claims down by 10% more each year), you get x bonus for every 1% more. Just my opinion.

          Also, tax law is grey. But they label everything black until you prove it's pure white.

          Case in point my rental. They say it wasn't genuinely available for rent.

          I have a signed statement from Real Estate state manager, saying they managed it, the town collapsed. 1 in 5 vacant. Mine was no exception. They dropped rent by 50% to try and find a tenant. I have the rental history from Domain showing it was available for rent in the dates they have questioned. I also listed it myself on Facebook (but don't know how to find old listings). The Tax Ruling (that they should be working from), says sufficient evidence. They claim the above isn't sufficient evidence!

          I'm working out how to submit a formal complaint around this. It's beyond a joke. Without this, there would be no audit. This is the red flag.

          If any investment class was positive every year…then we would all be doing it. They have to accept up and downs. My property follows Core Data perfectly. It isn't an anomaly if you cross reference the data locally.

          As for the process..It has been anything but professional for me. They are doing everything in their power to derail the evidence. Ie. my faded receipts. Can't post them, can't take them to anyone to view, removed the upload portal (as I spent 2 days printing and highlighting credit card statements to cover those receipts). Says they won't accept credit card statements (I still need to look that up in tax law).

          Now I thought they would just omit the receipts they can't read. Nup, the whole lot gets thrown out! Makes no sense. I need to resubmit the lot..from 2017/18.

          I say there is a heap in the return that don't even need substantiation. Quoted Laundry example at $150, working on 3 loads per week using 4.5kwh per load @ $0.38 per kWh.

          She comes back with no response to the question (re: what about the rest). Instead says the washing claim will be $144 max, as they only allow $1 per load and 3 a week for 48 weeks. Let's put that in context. My tax rate is 37%. So she has gone out of her way for 37% of $6!!

          They quoted tax law on another from the wrong year and said no claim on this, and it will be omitted. I said that rule didn't apply until 2020. Next day, no dialogue about it…but it just dropped off the audit list.

          I picked up lies, so tested the waters. I asked if they made their decision based on the lease I sent in to the other auditor (I hadn't sent it in yet). She said, we looked at it, and won't accept it. So I now know lieing has entered the chat. I didn't call her on it.. yet.

          Lastly time frames. She emailed me Friday at 2pm, saying I only have to the end of the day to make a decision. Dump the aforementioned property, or we dump all your work deductions for all years and you need to reapply for them to be considered.
          Remembering those faded receipts won't be accepted.

          I've been told to lodge a stat Dec saying I have been seeking legal and financial advice (which I have, and will list dates/ call logs) and can't meet that deadline. No idea how that will play out.

          Basically a school bully. Give me your lunch money or I'm punching you in the guts for 7 years…

          If anyone has any tips on the best / correct way to lodge a complaint, id love to know. Ie

          Do I tell her I wish to lodge a formal complaint. Do I just lodge in online (will take months though..she only gives hours). I know I need to do this first before I can escalate it to IGOT.

  • +2

    If a scanner is washing out faded receipts, try using a phone camera with flash turned off

  • +4

    Three words OP. Flee. The. Country.

  • +1

    Things I need to complete the audit are not claimable (ie scanner, home office power, internet, laptop).

    Unfortunately I believe this is correct. You can only claim these things if it is related to your work. Not if you need it to complete a tax return or audit. (Perhaps you can claim some of them for your work?)

    Faded receipts - you can take a photo of them on your phone and change the brightness and contrast settings when you take the photos. Then save them as PDF's and that is the same end result as scanning them.

    I also think you are missing a trick re EOFY. This is the worst time for them to be doing it too. Their work load is about to increase massively. If you are thinking of fighting it then it would probably be in your interest to do it now and not wait. Add to their workload. They may well not check things as thoroughly when you start submitting things in dozens of separate emails with receipts attached to copies of their website/rulings stating that alternative types of evidence can be submitted.

    Seems like they have already decided the outcome before even asking you for the receipts. And likely that they are bullying you in order to reduce their workload before EOFY.

    • Not if you need it to complete a tax return or audit.

      That's not correct. e.g. accountant fees to do your tax return are claimable. The thing is, if OP uses laptop for YouTube every day then on 1st of July for submitting tax return, he can only claim 1/366th of the price.
      If scanner is only used for scanning receipts for tax return, that would be 100% deductable… or he might get asked why he didn't use a $0 app on phone.

      Faded receipts

      Scanning software usually provide a lot of tweaking to maximise readability. You can preview, adjust and repeat until you get it readable.

      • +1

        If scanner is only used for scanning receipts for tax return, that would be 100% deductable… or he might get asked why he didn't use a $0 app on phone.

        It is not the ATOs place to tell you how to spend your money.

      • @SlickMick

        Any advice re scanning software (I've got a Mac), or phone apps (Oppo A72 - Android 11).

        I can't for the life of me work out how to reduce my phone cameras resolution. I've reached that age ….

        Each photo is like 4mb each. She wants stuff emailed. Email clients don't handle 1000 photos at 4mb each !

        Looking for like a 3MP option. All I can find is 48MP on / off???

        • I use camscanner on phone, which is pretty convenient.
          Apps like this are far better than just using the camera app: they get alignment and cropping right, and file it away in your documents rather than mixed up with photos.

          For a PC, I use whatever software comes with the scanner.

    • And likely that they are bullying you in order to reduce their workload before EOFY

      This. I also think that they thought you were lying and it is an easy gain.

  • For the work related deductions, have you thought about ask your employer to issue a letter stating the expenses incurred are necessary for your job?

    For the rental deductions, has the real estate agent issued a letter with letterhead stating they are the agent (i.e. agent from what period, the property was vacant for xxx period due to unable to find a tenant despite their best effort etc.), or just an email reply? You may need to consider make a statutory declaration to confirm the background and facts, and submit to the ATO to prove your ground. Also, will you be able to retrieve a copy of the managing/leasing authority from your real estate agent? Or have you contacted other agent in the area to try to rent out the property, considering the agent was not able to find a tenant for such a long time. This may also support that you always have the intention to rent out the property.

    • First part - Yes, submitted my job J&P to justify claimed items. They accepted it.

      Second Part - It started as an email (with the ATO cc'd in). I then replied and said, the ATO want the actual sign on document. He said he doesn't have it, as the manager in charge was incompetent and they fired her. But sent out a bulk download off their old system showing my property was on their books. They wouldn't accept a Stat Dec.

      Reality -They make it up as they go along. Even though it is clearly a legit claim, I have offered to sacrifice it/ let it go. The time actioning their wild goose chase is costing me more.

  • +1

    The ATO will negotiate generally and for this size of debt, it’s not worth them handing it over to the collection dept due to costs involved to them with no uncertain outcome.

    It is were me, I’d do as you weee doing by swatting up on tax law, tell them you will prefer to settle the matter in court unless they accept your offer (which you should not be too generous about).

    If you took those receipts to court THEY will see them and the ATO will be left holding the wooden spoon.

    All the best and definitely stand up and fight for what is right.

  • +1

    Update

    Got an email today that they won't accept my claim for $150 laundry. She then went on a long story to say they will accept the 3 loads per week, but only an arbitrary $1 per week, and they will exclude the 4 weeks annual leave. So 48x1 = $144.

    She spent all that (paid) time, to audit me ….$6…..pathetic!

    • +1

      *Sorry 48 x 3 = $144 above

      Which is a figure they can use, but I already sent this substantiation earlier in my logs for this (but I only worked it out for just for electricity usage alone - Which is $235) - the commissioner figure of $1 per load is not even close to relevant with today's costs.

      …But I only claimed $150 to avoid 'BS' and doesn't need a diary. But I wash on Tue, Thurs, Sat (easiest diary in the world).

      ..so stuff it…since they are wasting my time. Let's use actual data instead of an $1 per load figure from the "ATO fantasy fairy".

      For those following at home…look at Example 4, from the Tax Ruling here:

      https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?Docid=TXR/TR985/NAT…

      Gov energy site says my washer / dryer uses 1.5 and 3KWh respectively per wash. More for hotwashes on cold days. So this is a minimum/ at least.

      Electricity being $0.33/ Kwh + GST. So 36.3c /Kwh in 2018, (increasing to 42+GST today.) But lets do the 2018 - You can see how a flat $1 can't be used for all of Oz. Power prices here are too variable, and significant.

      So 1.5+3 x 3 per week x 0.363 x 48 = $235.224

      Now washing your clothes with just electricity alone doesn't work well…

      So might need water

      74L X 3 x 48 = 10 656L @ 2.15 per 1000L = $22.91

      But water and electricity alone aren't cutting it…if only there was a machine for it…

      Washer dryer - $998, and the ATO effective life is 7 years. Most work 5 out of 7 days a week of usage (though I work on Sunday, but have bedding - so lets cancel them out)

      So $998 / 7 years / 7 x 5 = $101.83 per year

      So got the electricity (basing on electricity coming out of thin air, but electricity also has a supply charge), got the water (but to conform to Council bylaws, the water needs to go down a drain - called a sewer charge). I'll leave them for later..

      …but my uniforms and protective clothing are still dirty…if only there was something to put in the machine….

      Washing detergent!!

      Omo at $10 /kg suggest 20 wash cycles per kg on the side…

      So 48 x 3 / 20 x $10 = $72

      So my claim is $235.24+$22.91+$101.83+ $72 = $431.98 in 2018.

      We should add - sewer $78 per quarter and grid supply at 88c per day (that's 2018 - now $98 and $1.05)…as they exist in reality and they are used….apportioned appropriately at a couple of hours per load 3 days out of 7 per week (even though you cant buy a couple of hrs worth of either. There's another couple of bucks there. Not sure if 'Home office Deductions' already cover this (I'm sure their values are worked out by the same ATO fantasy fairy).

      Now, to start the complaint process..

    • Thanks for the update. $1 per load I assume (not per week).

      Should add some more claims on at the end to make up for it, lol.

      • Sorry, yes $1 per load.

        This isn't achievable no matter what metric you use. But the case worker is right, in that $1 per load is a referenced metric on the ATO website.

        but the most disappointing bit…$6..which doesn't even apply as I worked through the holidays and logged it all anyway.

        Just looking for the washing machine invoice (ATO Evidence 4 suggests only written evidence is required, but lets remove all doubt) and seek the $431.98.

        or they can leave it as is and leave me the F alone.

  • There is only one solution here - team up with Pam (Screensaver) and fight the ATO as a super crack team of citizens standing up for their rights!

  • david vs goliath
    You are a brave man. Good on ya!
    Check out this movie. Based on a true story…
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/We%27re_Here_to_Help

  • +1

    2 Year period of review, unless they pull you in for fraud and evasion. 4 year doesn't seem applicable to your case.

    • How high is the bar for you to believe it’s fraud?

      • Wow, it took someone so long to call out this. The time is extended to an indefinite period into the past…

        Source: Item 5 in s 170(1) of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936

        The threshold is actually quite low from my experience working with clients in this area.

        By the way generically speaking, no one here ever consented to these laws did they? No one did, but the OP filed a tax return already and submitted to their federal jurisdiction. By the way just roughly a century ago there were no Federal taxes believe it or not. That's always something that raises people's eyebrows when they hear it.

        Do not want to comment too much because the OP's case looks quite complex, but can only offer the advice to the OP to read the legislation and not the ATO website as that is not legally binding. You can also rely on tax rulings, but the legislation can allow you to provide your own interpretation as others in the forum have already discussed.

        I am not aware of how a portable home office would be treated, or what they would deem it as. I haven't seen any case law on it, so if this ever goes to litigation it will be a fun interesting case to watch the outcome of.

        I've been lurking and trying to get more facts, but the case looks quite strong and the ATO might concede.

        EDIT: Came back to add a source.

      • A lot of effort to write up our position for evasion, so it better be a strong case or ain't nobody wasting their time

        • -5

          The fact that the information is not transparent to the public and the fact that the OP doing what would be in the normal course of their dealings gets caught, seems to appear that there is some sort of corrupt dishonest behaviour at play.

          You can't even ignore that. You might state there are internal documents about why you target someone, but it is arbitrary when it comes down to how decisions are made. This is what the government is, people don't understand it. One year something can be acceptable, another decade later it isn't. I've seen so many of these decisions and it is bloody arbitrary, to state the government authorities actually made some considerations is just a barnum statement. They just do the bare minimum to convince the judge or member at the AAT that their position is correct. It's all smoke and mirrors.

          Just stop putting on the facade, it doesn't really matter because everyone sees through the lies. You state that you or your colleague put a lot of time to write up a report, yet you didn't even write what would be a generic response that would be acceptable to be released to the public… A lot of time it's so freaking arbitrary. Nothing that the rest of the general public would agree with.

          That's the sad truth about our society, it's decaying. The government won't even respond to FOI requests, everything gets redacted, it's so bullshit, that's why we need jury nullification.

          The truth is many people can claim and are entitled to claim more than they actually do, but there is some sort of dodginess about how society portrays the behaviour that even myself earn over $150k but I rarely claim over $1000, but that doesn't mean I couldn't have done so. There is a reason for the low figure because I don't have housing investments because I don't trust the illiquid asset, that basically doesn't really leave much, so that's for those trying to figure out why my figure is so low. But surely I could have claimed something that was expensed when I created income, sure, but you don't because there is this societal pressure from all the brainwashing.

          When you see a government worker, you just need to understand they are basically working for a criminal organisation. You never consented to their laws and they just apply it arbitrarily. They will hide and do all sorts of dishonest behaviour just to keep the facade going.

          It's sad, but maybe one day a bold whistleblower at the ATO will dump all the records of why they target certain individuals. Then the whole charade falls apart.

          • @Chiyoko: Ahahah what first of all I didn't downvote you as I believe everyone deserves to speak unless it's irrelevant or misinformation. I am associated as Ozbargain has tagged me automatically, but I have never stated to be an employee, 95%+ of audits created are automated (don't quote me), but a majority of them are automated due to specific risk engines being flagged/triggered. If you are a high wealth individual eg $10m+ assets you will be individually looked at.

            ATO doesn't target anybody at all ahah, it's literally when data doesn't match what we have that it will be flagged. Don't do anything that have complex tax implications or get an accountant to handle your complex tax affairs and you got nothing to stress about.

            Sorry I understand where you are coming but government workers are also affected by the same policies as the rest of the public. If there is an issue I'm sure we can rally around to fix it, everybody plays a part no matter how small you think it is.

            • @Lit Homie: I think my issue is the managing agent that didn't know what they are doing.
              I kind of get it now as the data on when my property was listed for rent on some platforms doesn't match Core Data. No idea how that can even happen, but they achieved it. Not my fault though in fairness…just lucky!
              The bit that annoys me is, if a state manager from a national Real Estate firm says it was on their books, and they fired an agent over it… it should have stopped there. I have since found the management contracts, so hopefully that puts it to bed. If not, should take 15 seconds with the AAT.
              As for the work stuff, I accept mine is different, as the job is different. But I don't like that you aren't sitting in the same room as an auditor (rules out all those iffy receipt issues and provides a platform for future claim input discussion).

          • @Chiyoko:

            even myself earn over $150k but I rarely claim over $1000, but that doesn't mean I couldn't have done so. There is a reason for the low figure because I don't have housing investments

            So you claim you could have claimed more but you didn't because you don't hold a IP property? Interesting view…….

  • Find a good accountant (not a fly by night one), that has experience with ATO audits.
    You'll need them in the future.

    If this is genuine, your best approach is to go through an experienced accountant, and get the payable amount negotiated.

    Don't try to do it on your own. Also try to avoid H&R and large firms with Junior level employee accountants (who don't build a personal relationship). They're scared of ATO, and their personal reputation, not navigating through ATO audits to get a fair outcome.

    In fairness, for a $10k claim by ATO, I'd just pay it and move on. But consult an experienced accountant who has gone through ATO audits.

    • Do you mean avoid H&R in general or specifically for audits?

      • Definitely avoid H&R or similar. They are hopeless. One lady was that confused, she thought I was the ATO. ..

  • I suggest you photocopy in black with the darkness turned up on the faded receipts. And then scan the result.

    • Cheers. Ill give it a try.

      Hairdryer is a fail.

  • OP Any updates??? Did you fold? Did the ATO fold?

    • +2

      After maybe 20 odd chats with accountants, found a good one. So many dodgy accountants out there. If you are going to one, ask them if they will help you with an audit up front (see if they are up to it before doing your tax).
      He isn't phased by any of it. He's happy with everything I have, and gave me alternative options for the faded stuff etc. Also got a new case officer who is working with me, vs against. He actually found some stuff I can add to my claim. Also, found an old contract. So a few things sorted with evidence. Now just working through the pain in the ass of uploading / checking 5 years of ..stuff over the next 2 weeks. Should have never gone to 5 years (it was their process that lead to 5 yrs). But decided not to lodge a complaint. The new case officer thinks I have grounds to, but hopefully we will all just move on. I'll let you know down the track.

      • Thanks for the updates! Glad to hear you have found an accountant to work with. Yes lots don't like audits as it is a lot of work and normally means the ATO picking over their work and telling them they are wrong!

        Best of luck over the next few weeks!

      • +1

        Curious how much is that costing?

Login or Join to leave a comment