Help - Any Tips on a Tax Audit? Problems Dealing with The ATO

So Im in the middle of an intimidation process with the ATO. Apparently my earnings: expenses ratio is too high for the ATO's liking, and they want to audit my return from 2017.

I had to scan and send in all my receipts, spreadsheets and log books, which I did.
But a few of the receipts have faded. Originals can be read in the right light, but not the scanned copies. I asked to take them physically in, or post them in…denied!
Found old credit card statements to cross reference the faded receipts "unlikely to accept". But "send them in". A few days later, I get a call. Nah, we won't accept them. Plus where is your vehicle invoice to support your logbook.

My vehicle books were stolen (with the original invoice inside in 2018 - I filed the police report). So have kept my insurance value, plus a red book valuation range which is $1500 higher than what I'm my claiming even at the bottom of the range. I put a post on here the other day for ideas. Denied! But I did find a tax ruling TR 97/24, that shows a substitution can be used if something is stolen (and my claim pattern has been consistent for 10 years). So questioning this "denial".

Now my logs show way more than 5000km a year (they accepted my log book). So can at least use the cents per Km method…so I thought…see later…

Now I had a rental (pulling a peasley $150/ week) in a mining town that collapsed. Cream on top was that it was mismanaged, and didn't have a tenant for the entire year. The ATO wanted proof that it was available for rent. Back then, I asked the state manager of a major national Real Estate company to look at my property, and he fired the agent immediately. He said they stuffed something up, and my property wasnt matching prospective tenants in their system. But I saw it was up for rent on RE.com (and I listed it on socials as well). So it was available. But no tenant cemented. However, with no rent, the agent never gave me a statement. So the State Manager wrote to the ATO confirming they indeed managed my property (before, during and after 2017, and it was indeed available for rent and always has been. Also confirmed they terminated an employee's position. The ATO won't accept this either.
Again, doesn't conform to their own "genuine attempt to rent" resource on their website, which suggests the agents witness statement is enough.

So been given an ultimatum. They remove ALL my work deductions (vehicle, protective clothing, travel etc ) from 2017 to 2024 (even though I have already sent them receipts & logs, and some stuff doesn't even need substantiation!). Plus they remove my property for 2017 and 2020 (as I reduced the rent in 2020 to get a tenant). But they will leave the other years on the property as is.

Alternatively, they want to audit every aspect of all my tax returns every year from 2017 onwards and I have just a few weeks to, and I quote "email them all in".

Basically forgo all my actual substantiated receipts, and they won't bust my balls. It's the EOFY… It's a terrible time of year for this. It's blatant stand over tactics.

So after ideas? Taking this to a chartered accountant is going to cost more than my return. My rents are bugger all, and my bank interest is on $150k. I feel they know this. But I'm not an idiot, and I can read their documents and rulings. I have a subscription to the Independent Taxation Examiner and know 99% of what I have claimed for. The 1% I didn't know, I kept call logs (and recordings) for the 50+ calls I made to the ATO that simply ended in them hanging up after a "too busy message". Or when I did get through (tried outside hours), we don't know the answer to that…all recorded and documented. If these get wiped in the audit, fair enough. As long as it is right, I'm happy.

So I'm m thinking of filing a formal complaint with the Commonwealth Ombudsman, listing all the ATO rulings and URLs I have conformed with, but they are denying or being unecessarily inflexible with.
As for receipts that a scanner can't pick up….come and look at them, or accept the credit card statement. They are legit and visible, just not scanable. If you don't want to send out an actual auditor, then just accept them (and we are talking about $500 total).
I also want to know why they want me to give up on my receipted claims I have already sent in. How is this remotely right?
Lastly, they are saying I can't claim my scanner, computer, power or internet…yet want me to use them for the audit (not a chance)….and even if I did, you can't "email in " several thousand receipts, invoices and logs through an email inbox anyway.

It's so bad, I was convinced I was being scammed at first.

Seems very amateur. Need it to go away, or at least leave it to September when the busy time of year has passed.

Any helpful ideas appreciated.

Cheers

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Comments

  • +11

    I mean,

    If you're claiming deductions you better have the evidence to back it up.
    Personally if your house is vacant for a full year that's on you not the RE.

    But yeah, 7 year old receipts are a bit brutal.

    • I do have everything I could possibly have.
      Almost 30% of the properties in the area were vacant in 2018/19…it was nothing unusual. Ass fell out of commodity prices…it happens.
      Did give the government the opportunity to let the Steel works go to zero (making all shares worthless..that most local employees held. Some people took their lives). Then the govt sold the plant to an overseas buyer for $700 million win fall. Commodities are now booming again, huge profits going offshore.
      But a final kick in the nuts ..bust everyones balls for having a vacant property..because that's what we wanted!!!

    • +4

      " they want to audit my return from 2017"

      Its HIGHLY UNUSUAL for tax office to be auditing returns from 7 years ago.
      In fact, you are only required to keep records for 5 years from date of return.

      Usually the tax office will audit your most recent tax return and if they find significant issues, they might choose to look further.

      See here direct from the ATO web site:

      How long to keep your records
      You must keep your written evidence for 5 years from the date you lodge your tax return.

      In limited circumstances, there are different time periods for keeping records or record keeping exceptions.

      In the following situations the period for keeping records is:

      5 years from the date of your last claim for decline in value, if you claim a deduction for the decline in value of depreciating assets
      5 years after it is certain that no capital gains tax (CGT) event can happen, if you acquire or dispose of a CGT asset
      for the later of following periods if you are in dispute with us, either
      5 years from the date you lodge your tax return
      5 years from the date the dispute is resolved.

      • +2

        Its HIGHLY UNUSUAL for tax office to be auditing returns from 7 years ago.

        Not if he just lodged

        • +1

          I didnt see anywhere that OP has just lodged their 2017 tax return ???

          • +5

            @HeWhoKnows: Reading between the lines I’d say so as the ATO know when they can and can’t audit.

            OP is only telling us one side of the story…

  • Guess you didn't think of asking whoever provided invoices for you for purchases to print or email you replacement invoices?

    • The only missing invoice is my car.
      That is from a car broker that is long gone / re phoenixed as something else.
      The faded receipts are things like fuel, meal allowances etc.

  • -1

    Just pay and move on

    • +6

      It seems that is the norm that they expect. But I need every cent right now, and not giving up a few thousand dollars.. especially when it is unjust. I have receipts and their advice is rediculous. Ie. Take nothing (without a vehicle invoice). But I'm eligible for the 5000km cents per Km method (they accepted my log book). So at least an approx $3000 claim anyway. Not zero!
      But they didn't say this. They tried to convince / trick me I have no claim.
      It's not right, and I'm not putting up with it.

  • To give context, how much money are we talking about here? That is, how much the maximum ATO will get from you by doing the audit?

    • -1

      Could go either way.

      If I accept their ultimatum…my $10.5k claim becomes $1.8k.

      But, during COVID, the CEO sent out an email saying all resources must be carried home every day. Now I have discovered carrying resources means the travel is claimable. So my 70% travel claim may become almost 100%.

      So now we are around $13k.

      But let's face it. They will weasel, make every item difficult, faded receipts non claimabl etc.. So will lose maybe $3k of deductions.
      So a full audit is probably going to take A LONG time to scan it all, and see a $7k return. The extra travel claim above will probably bring me back to the original $10k.

      Net result, waste of time.

      • But, during COVID, the CEO sent out an email saying all resources must be carried home every day. Now I have discovered carrying resources means the travel is claimable. So my 70% travel claim may become almost 100%.

        out of interest what's "resources", unless you're a tradie you likely won't be able to claim it.

        • All sorts. Sporting gear, heart rate monitors, GPS trackers, uniforms, journals, books, fridge, webcam, speakers, water testing equipment, printer/ scanner. Coffee machine. My car was FULL. I also bought a 240v inverter and worked out of my car for 18 months. Basically decked my car out as a home office.
          For comparison. I used to ride my bike to work prior to this (which my 2017 claim is base on..riding to work). I used that log for 5 years. But will reconsider it.

          • +1

            @tunzafun001: That doesn't really compute, so you went from riding a bike to work for many years and could do your job, to somehow needing a coffee machine, fridge, heat monitors, uniforms, etc in your car to do your job?

            Do you work on different sites or just working out of a car park somewhere as you can't go to the office?

            • @JimmyF: Yep. I had a base / office and worked out of there. Left my car parked in a work shed. So all my travel is easy to work out. Ride home to office (600m). Then work based Office to other work sites, then back to office. Then ride home. COVID stuffed that up and I was moved to a different site. They couldn't adhere to the density protocols (10 staff in a tiny box). So I just worked out of my car. Never increased my travel % claim over that time. But will likely do that now.

      • +16

        But, during COVID, the CEO sent out an email saying all resources must be carried home every day. Now I have discovered carrying resources means the travel is claimable. So my 70% travel claim may become almost 100%.

        CEO are not the ATO.

        Travel to and from work is generally not claimable for most people.

        I work in IT and take my laptop home each night, does that mean its a taxable trip now? No it doesn't.

        • -4

          Remembering I havent claimed it. But if I get audited, I will. From the ATO…

          "Transporting bulky tools and equipment.
          You can claim a deduction for the cost of trips between home and work if you need to carry bulky tools or equipment and all the following conditions are met:

          the tools or equipment are essential to perform your work
          the tools or equipment are bulky, meaning that
          they are awkward to transport because of their size and weight
          they can only be transported conveniently using a motor vehicle."

          No possible way a human could carry my daily required resources. I took a trailer some days!

          As for your statement. No I wouldn't accept a laptop as sufficient. But..it still sucks, because if you were an IT contractor, then the travel would be claimable. Same job, different claim.

          • +7

            @tunzafun001:

            because if you were an IT contractor, then the travel would be claimable

            LOL Travel to/from your primary place of work is not claimable even as a contractor, unless you meet the guidelines which carrying a laptop does not.

            No possible way a human could carry my daily required resources. I took a trailer some days!

            and yet you haven't told us what you do or what you are carrying.

            • -4

              @JimmyF: If you are a contractor out of home, then yep you are right.

              As for my employment. Too much identity theft going around to put it on a forum. But my day involves running an Aquaculture facility, liasing with tertiary avenues (Uni/ Tafe) and working with an AFL club! So I've got tools ,sports equipment, documents coming out my ears..listed a few earlier.

              The ATO asked me to submit my job descriptor I successfully applied for (which was a pain in the @ss to find back in 2013), but they were happy it matched my claimed items and travel log.
              But then asked me to let them all go…and suggest it is outside the norm…my job is anything but normal.

              • +3

                @tunzafun001:

                As for my employment. Too much identity theft going around to put it on a forum. But my day involves running an Aquaculture facility, liasing with tertiary avenues (Uni/ Tafe) and working with an AFL club! So I've got tools ,sports equipment, documents coming out my ears..listed a few earlier.

                Then surely you had been carrying these items around before covid and that 'CEO' claim to take it all home with you?

                Why don't you have a work supplied van to carry it all around? As from what you say, it sounds far more than the normal expected load for people to transport.

      • +2

        I still don't understand, too many numbers..
        How much ATO can get from you if they can successfully void all your deductions for the last 7 years (since 2017 until now)?
        $10k feels too small for them to spend their resources auditing you, so it might just be a threat.

        • +8

          Yes so many questions raised, I feel the complete story hasn't been presented based on the vague answers given.

          So 7 years of returns being audited all to get $10k aka ~$1.4k a year. Hardly not worth the effort by the ATO to bother even if they thought they are 100% right.

        • -3

          No, $10k in year 1, others are around $8k per year. Last one was only $2k.

          Best case they wipe $2k off per each year, and pay a few hundred to me in interest penalties. So maybe $9k total.

          Best case for me, I end up with $3k more.

          • +3

            @tunzafun001:

            No, $10k in year 1, others are around $8k per year. Last one was only $2k.

            That isn't what you said at the start of the thread when someone asked how much the maximum ATO will get from you by doing the audit. To which you replied

            If I accept their ultimatum…my $10.5k claim becomes $1.8k.

            • @JimmyF: That is indeed the result if I accept the ultimatum of no audit.

              They reduce my $10k in 2017 to $1.8k.

              But then I don't need to do the rest of the full audit, and they will start including my rental again…but I need to give up my work deductions for all years (it's rediculous).

              As per that post…a full audit could go either way.

              I should mention, they said you can apply for an amendment later on to add work deductions. But haven't been given specifics.
              Ie. Is an application guaranteed? How long have I got? etc

              Basically they want this wiped before July and asking me to take a flaming bag.

            • +6

              @JimmyF: Agreed, OP hasn't really been fully transparent.

  • +12

    Is it a scam for them to request proof of what you claimed?

    No.

    Does it suck?

    Yes.

    • -2

      I have proof. Just not the proof "they want" on two items out of 1000+. But they are big items.
      But the proof I have conforms to the ATO published documentation. If it doesn't, then my claim (ie vehicle) should go from $5k to approx $3k (just the crappy cents per Km method instead). But not zero.

  • +5

    Think I'm Being Scammed

    Play the ATO at their own game then. Pay the ATO your new debt in apple gift cards.

    • -1

      The ATO won't let me claim my phone, internet, computer, travel food or power.

      So I fail to see any way anything can be paid to the ATO.

      *Just reflecting douche bag to a douche bag process.

  • +5

    So you got flagged because your income was too low and expenses claimed too high?

    • -1

      Yeah I guess so. Not the norm apparently. But my job isn't in their drop down menu. So there is no "norm". But you have to chose something to lodge, so they have grouped me with those..which again is wrong…just a limitation of their system.

      Plus a city within 24hrs of total collapse is not normal either.. probably the same for the agent that got fired .but that goes hand in hand with the population collapse. The got an agent who was willing to work with bugger all rented properties. Paid peanuts, got a monkey.

      ATO clearly think investment property = $1 million rental income.

      • What sort of ration are we taking about?

        • Yes, what sort of ratio between your income and deductions?

          • @kiitos: Realise I said ration and not ratio and was half expecting a food pun.

  • +4

    Apparently my earnings: expenses ratio is too high for the ATO's liking

    So what are we talking here? What is your total amount claimed over this period vs your income?

    Lastly, they are saying I can't claim my scanner, computer, power or internet

    So you have been claiming them?

    You seem to be claiming a 'lot', like a house that is empty for over a year. Which is a red flag for the ATO.

    As for receipts that a scanner can't pick up…

    Adjust the scanner settings to be darker and you'll pick it up.

    • Yes, I have claimed as much as I could from the ATOs documentation. I also have a subscription to the Independent Taxation Examiner.

      No doubt the empty house is a red flag. Not that any investor wants no rent..surely? I mean I almost went under. I was hugely depressed..still am…but they keep on kicking. A stat Dec from a national Real estate agency head manager should do it (I have asked him to just create me a zero invoice and put this crap to bed). Which means none of this would have escalated in the first place.

      As for the scanner. I tried a heap of settings, spent ages. But you can only see them when under direct sun light, and at about 45 degrees to the sun. I did read a hair dryer may work. But I asked the ATO to just cross reference it. Ie. Fuel receipts My car used a published 11L/ 100km. Use that…and I do have credit card statements for these payments. But she said I may have bought other items at the fuel station.
      Interesting. My first auditor said to express post in my receipts and he will verify them. Then when my property entered the chat, got a new auditor, and she won't allow that. I even offered to drive in to the city ATO building. But they insist on just saying no.

      • Yes, I have claimed as much as I could from the ATOs documentation. I also have a subscription to the Independent Taxation Examiner.

        So give us some rough figures?

        You earned $100k and claimed $80k?

        What is your line of work?

        I did read a hair dryer may work.

        That would be the answer you get if you google it. So give it a go on a 'test' one and see.

        • Nah, nowhere near that. I earnt $122k, claimed mid $30k. At my tax rate, that means $10k back.

          I'm happy to do the full audit..but it needs to be
          a) not now - EOFY.
          b) With a present human to see all receipts.

          • I should mention they are still withholding my returns. So I will be seeking interest from them for all this time (which the auditor said they will pay), but I'm happy to waive interest for a few months to do this later.
          • -1
          • @tunzafun001: 30 k in work expenses or does that include the loss in rent?

            If it includes the rental loss how much was the work related?

          • +9

            @tunzafun001:

            I earnt $122k, claimed mid $30k.

            Ok, I see the issue now.

            So if you claimed mid $30's in expenses which is equal/more than your tax paid. No wonder they are auditing you after 7 years of this.

            Tax payable on $122k/yr is ~$30k

            You claimed ~$30-35k/yr in expenses.

            So what else are you claiming?

            • +1

              @JimmyF: Actually, it is weird that they want to audit only after 7 years (or more) of this. By now, it should already become a common pattern for OP returns.

              • +4

                @leiiv: 7 years is the legal period you have to keep records for.

                The OP clearly has tipped over the threshold to trigger an audit. On looking at the returns they see lots of excessive deductions. a PAYG employee on ~$122k/yr claiming $30k deductions year after year isn't normal.

                • +2

                  @JimmyF: 30 k might be inclusive of negative gearing

                  Claiming deductions anything in excess of 10% of income screams audit me especially if self lodging

                  • @Gotchas:

                    30 k might be inclusive of negative gearing

                    The OP claimed the rental is only creating $150/wk in rental income. So that is some crazy negative gearing if its the main cause of the claim.

                    Claiming deductions anything in excess of 10% of income screams audit me especially if self lodging

                    Agreed, which is the case here for both. OP is PAYG and claiming around 30% of income as expenses and self lodging. Screams red flags to the ATO.

                  • @Gotchas: Yeah that's right mate. Claimed 70% travel (they accepted my log and how it links to my J&P). Car over 5 years (ATO says 8yrs prime, or 4yrs Accel Dep, or your own). Based on high numbers in a rural setting and need to drive near water/ sand..I went 5 years. Plus fuel/ servicing/rego/insurance/ tyres. Then your usual protective clothing and tech. Some t&D (remembering non metro, so it's 1200 km drive or flights, and some accom/ food), and a Tafe upskill course. A couple of property deductions (remembering no rent for a year) and we have a $10k claim.

                    • @tunzafun001: You're writing a car off in 5 years?
                      Also i hope you're not claiming k's + rego/fuel/deprectiation etc because that would be double dipping.

                      • @Drakesy: No, not km..I used the logbook method for all costs, and they accepted my log.

                        I chose 5 years as it is high km rural, and I have consistently changed car every 5 years.

                        I know these rules well, and everyone (especially those who ride / bus it and only use their car for work reasons, and the occasional holiday trip) should be doing this (so the % is significant). Then I wouldn't be an outlier..

                        https://www.driversnote.com.au/blog/claim-motor-vehicle-depr….

                        I was looking at a novated lease, but they couldn't get close to this method.

                        But even if they rejected this (which they didn't initially), with my log I could still use the km "sheep method aka….everyone choses just under 5000km" method" …for the full 5000km.
                        Which is $3kish alone. But they offered..$0

                • @JimmyF: I wondered what they are. Most of them could be the interests and cost of the investment property, and the travel expenses. But what else?

                  • +1

                    @leiiv:

                    I wondered what they are. Most of them could be the interests and cost of the investment property, and the travel expenses.

                    Not sure. IP is only rented for $150/wk, so hoping that doesn't have a $700k loan attached to it ;)

                    OP could be claiming travel to inspect the IP a couple of times a year.

                    But what else?

                    We all want to know too!

                    • @JimmyF: You can't claim any form of travel any more for any reason (unless you are a multi property mogel, then you can).

                      I don't know why, and makes no sense. If I didn't visit my property I would have never picked up the agent was dodgy, and would still probably be vacant.

                      Also, I had a break in when I couldn't get a tenant. Lost 2 days of work and drove 1200km to let forensics in, and verify damages, stolen items for insurance etc. But nothing to claim as I'm just a pleb.

                      Because I was quick, they got a good DNA sample and the dude went to jail. But yeah, no claim..

                    • @JimmyF: Relax mate. Just an average return once work based deductions/ vehicle expenses thrown in.

                      Life is expensive.

                      https://www.jensenproperty.com.au/negative-gearing-not-mainl….

                • @JimmyF: 5 Years per the ATO

                  • @RMBC: Handy to know. Looks like its 5 years from the date you lodge your tax return for worker bees, companies etc still need to keep records for 7 years.

                    OP might have held out doing returns for a few years, hence the larger audit window which would fall within the 5 years of lodgement.

                    • +2

                      @JimmyF: The ATO's review window for non-business individuals and small business entities, regardless of whether they are an individual or company/trust/partnership is actually two years, and four years for other businesses/entities.

                      The period can be extended indefinitely in instances where the ATO suspects either fraud or tax evasion. Assuming these returns weren't lodged late, OP is unfortunately looking at a situation where the ATO has a suspicion of fraud or tax evasion.

                      • +2

                        @RMBC:

                        OP is unfortunately looking at a situation where the ATO has a suspicion of fraud or tax evasion.

                        Certainly is looking like it!

                        From what the OP has posted, there has been some questionable claims.

                      • @RMBC: They were lodged late / as a group.

                        I had a few issues.
                        1 was around an incorrectly reported group certificate. Had to go via the AAT to sort out.
                        1 was around personal health.
                        Biggest delay was around error messages with MyTax. It just froze and spat errors. Then wiped my dep schedule.

                        I logged over 100 calls attempts to the ATO, and always resulted in the call just hanging. I lodged a complaint..and they didn't know what to do with the errors. Said start again. Did so.. error came back. My return wasn't right, but they said just lodge it anyway. Lodged another complaint. Was told to call a number. I called the number and it was a message saying out of office for 7 months. I left all the error stuff out. I wrote to the Commonwealth Ombudsman (which I now know is not the right place). Got a response from the ATO, an apology about the delay and to call this number. … It was an auditor.

            • @JimmyF: so? still has to pay tax on the remaining 92k of income.

        • +2

          If the receipts are printed on thermal paper, don't go near it with a hair dryer without testing on a throw-away receipt first. You will likely find that it makes the entire receipt go black.

          If you can see it with the naked eye in direct sunlight, take a photo and adjust the brightness/contrast that way.

          • @cimrak: Yep, that's what happened. I'll try a phone photo (as the scanner just thinks its blank and skips it entirely).

      • Try Irfanview pc app. There is a function for you to adjust your pic's contrast, brightness, etc. I got my faded receipts restored.

        • Cheers. So still use the scanner?

      • +1

        I also have a subscription to the Independent Taxation Examiner.

        Might help to read it as well.

  • +5

    this post is a scam

    • Because it stole your time?
      .

    • -1

      I understand!

      Never knew why people get all tax $hitty.

      Thought an audit would be a good thing. Good chance to finally talk with the ATO.

      • Good chance to finally talk with the ATO.

        This is what I was going to say. Having an email address for the ATO is awesome. Consider yourself lucky.
        I had so many missed calls trying to communicate with them.

        If I ever get audited, I'd much rather email reciepts than have a face-to-face.
        Especially if I have someone's direct email so I can send queries ongoing.

        • I don't have the auditors contact any more. Just a case officer..who doesn't know much about tax returns. Which is really frustrating.

          But the original auditor answered a question I had been trying 4 years to get. Even an accountant couldn't give me an answer, as it was a around a private ruling. The actual auditor was a good fella.

  • +1

    Did you use a tax agent at all? Especially useful for non std jobs
    .

    • -1

      I went to H&R block. I had to show them all the tax rulings for my return. Even the $150 laundry..they weren't aware of. Half way through I realalised… what am I paying you for again? Never again.

      Then went to a chartered professional in 2012. Charged me $3500 for a $5k return. Got 1/3 of that back the next year. But the numbers vs what he added (basically nothing more) didn't add up. Still have to sign off on it at the end anyway.

      Then the Depreciation schedules in MyTax don't export. So I can't go elsewhere until they clear out. Was advised by an accountant to convert to a low value pool. Which spits out endless errors and crashes on MyTax. ATO don't know what the errors mean, and said "our low value pool tool is shit" and advised moving stuff back into the dep schedule..sigh!!

      My problem is I have diversified (what you are meant to do right). But I'm not a millionaire.
      So have a cheap investment property, a managed fund with $6k in it, a handful of shares, a $10 bag of crypto (maybe..got hacked in 21). So a tax return costs as much as my return if done by a pro. Plus I don't fit a mold..so the agents are not sure how to assess some stuff. I had an electric PHEV in 2018 that used 20kWh per 100km, with 15% losses at the charging cable. So claimed 23Kwh / 100km at 35c per kWh. Neither an accountant nor the ATO can get their head around that!

      Got pretty good at self filling. But now feel a professional who may say the exact same thing as me..but when they say it, the ATO might listen.

      Happy to take suggestions on someone. Guess it can be Aussie wide.

      • I had the same experience - I think it was H&R Block. I decided that I knew tax law better than them, so decided to do my own tax returns from my 2nd year working. But you have to keep up to speed with tax laws and what bookkeeping requirements, else you need to find the right person who can apply tax law to your situation (good luck with that!)
        (If I ever get around to developing some software for it, I might go into business doing bookkeeping for people.)

        You should by depreciating low value assets in the LVP, and moving your depreciating assets to LVP once the remaining value falls below $1000.
        I keep mine in a spreadsheet. (The tax return tool before myTax sucked too, so I stopped using it and put everything in spreadsheet.)
        You don't have to keep using myTax, but you'll have to retype everything into a spreadsheet.

        Also, tax a copy of receipts as they happen. Phones have good scanner apps these days. When you get the call from the ATO, you have all your receipts, readable, and ready to share. If you don't already have the equipment, there's more deductions for a computer, scanner, backup drives and software…

        Unless you have funds you're willing to burn on a legal case, you need to accept that ATO makes the rules and interprets them thier way.
        e.g. I would never buy an asset that doesn't produce income in first and every year, because I know ATO don't like giving up deductions if it isn't compensated by tax on earnings. So an investment property with no income draws attention. If the deductions weren't substantial, I wouldn't fight it.

        I wouldn't be making a fuss or getting them offside or you can expect scrutiny every year. If they've made you an offer to repay some tax and move on, I'd grab that.

        • Ah, this is refreshing. Someone who knows where I'm at. This is how my returns got delayed. MyTax 'suggest' moving assets into the LVP. But when you say yes…it crashes and spits error messages…and then makes a mess of the remaining schedule. So definitely need a spreadsheet backup.
          Definitely learnt my lesson re receipts. They sit in my vertical cabinet, had no idea.
          As for keeping up. I have a subscription to the Independent Taxation Examiner. The subscription is deductible and brilliant for keeping on top of changes and basics 99% miss. But then you are in the 1%..and stand out.
          Im actually thinking of giving up on my legit property claim (very reluctantly, as it BS). They said I can amend it later…but no details of what that means.

      • +1

        I had to show them all the tax rulings for my return. Even the $150 laundry.

        From the ATO website

        We consider that a reasonable basis for working out your laundry claim is:
        $1 per load if it only contains work clothing from one of the categories above

        So ATO allows $1/load for Occupation-specific clothing, ie must have the company logo attached to it.

        So you're doing 150 loads of work only clothing a year? If you do a 'mixed' personal/work load then you can only claim 50c/load.

        I had an electric PHEV in 2018 that used 20kWh per 100km, with 15% losses at the charging cable. So claimed 23Kwh / 100km at 35c per kWh. Neither an accountant nor the ATO can get their head around that!

        So the outlander PHEV? I think you're figures are off, 15% loss on charging isn't correct. Range on elec is only ~50km on a good day. Regardless they only had a 12kWh battery pack. So you're claiming 13.8kWh each charge?

        35c/kWh would be peak power rates, why are you not charging on off peak rates?

        • +1

          This guy is literally walking with a giant "ATO AUDIT ME" target on his back.

        • I've submitted my laundry log. They accepted it.

          You are correct. Charging losses are between 15 - 21% depending on speed of charge (15% is the lowest). Easily shown with the 2 CTs. Remember the PHEV is a first gen Type 1 port. A 3 phase setup on a type 2 plug would have less losses…but that's not what I have.

          As for the PHEV, I claimed thousands of km at 23kWh/ 100km. Cost is that rate, because that's what the supply rate is to my house (not a TOU meter). Now around 43c.

      • Got pretty good at self filling

        Depends what you mean by "good". You figured out which boxes to put the numbers in, but whether the numbers were correct and matched what the tax laws allowed are additional factors.

        Still, I guess the audit will straighten all this out. Just remember all that money you saved by not wasting your time with a tax professional.

        • In fairness. I went to a professional but they couldn't export/ import my dep schedule out of MyTax After 4 years dealing with complaints to the ATO..I gave up.

          Haven't had any issues with my process so far. Just the evidence in a crap situation.

          But if I receive a 100% audit..then I probably should become an accountant. I'm realistic..it won't be. But it's close. Have used a professional 3 years prior, and he only added stuff.

          I filled it out as honestly and accurately as as I could. So that side I'm at peace with.

          • @tunzafun001: Fair enough, good luck with the process, I hope they engage with you honestly and fairly

  • +3

    No wonder I never get audited when my only claim is $50 to the RCH Good Friday Apeal.

  • What’s the legalities surrounding your recording of phone interactions with the ATO? Methinks this is something you extend into other areas…

    • No idea. My phone auto records, and the recordings that matter are all just auto messages that the "ATO is too busy, call back later". If it is a person, I tell them this call may be recorded when they tell me the same thing about their recording. But have no reason to use anything from the ATO yet.

      My recorded call was crucial with Bupa. They wouldn't let me lodge a complaint without evidence of what someone had told me. I played it back, they refunded me instantly.

      • how do you get your phone to auto record?

        • It's built in to my Oppo.
          But I used some free app on my old phone. Just toggle auto record on/ off. A voice plays saying "this call is being recorded" when it's enabled

  • +4

    ATO is in the middle of a pseudo Robodebt/written off debt/resurrection process. Yours is cheap.

    If you've done everything they've asked, either get a good accountant or, alternatively, lodge a complaint with the Inspector General.

    After that it's the AAT. Be mindful to always put the onus back on them - ok, youve denied this, your information states this, please put in writing precisely what you're looking for. They hate it.

    • Thanks heaps for this.

      Inspector general, not the Commonwealth Ombudsman?

      Been through the AAT before. Was reasonable.

      The phone calls are very vague. Ie. accept this now, apply to change it later. So I asked for all this in writing. But they didn't mention any of the application process. So asked around 20 questions around that..ie how do I apply, how long have I got to apply? Is an application guaranteed? How long does it take? etc.

      Also sent them their own URLs to claims. For example, they asked where is my lease document i signed when I appointed an agent. In 2017 I faxed it and then the machine shreds it (as I used works fax machine). Nowhere in that URL does it say this is a document I need to keep. Just says you need evidence that your property was available for rent. A signed statement and bag of emails throughout the year from a national Real Estate agency sounds like "evidence" to me.

      Sounds like I'm on the right track. I just don't see their effort: return.

      I dumbfounded that they are saying the very things I need to complete the audit are not claimable (ie scanner, home office power, internet, laptop). Surely that is a boot up the date straight up. Clowns!

      Do you know if any of my time is claimable? (Since they haven't simply appointed an auditor and asking me to track down things like a 2013 job application through Freedom of Information)? Spent weeks on this already..and that's just 2017.
      I've already ascertained interest is payable on delaying my return.

      Worth mentioning that I noticed the BSB details on works BAS refunds had been hacked. Someone had entered their own details in a different state. The ATOs response, don't worry about it, tell no one.

      So there is also some $150 million per year in cyber crime they don't have a grip on.

      But my couple of thousand is the go… I always thought it you have dependents and earn $80k they would leave you alone.

      • What % internet, laptop, power etc do you claim?
        I don't know what business you're in, but you seem to have a very broad range of deductions. I don't really find it surprising that you've attracted scrutiny.

        But I do think the outcome of an audit will be good for you. You'll know exactly what deductions ATO will allow, and they will know what to expect from you in future returns, so should never be an issue again.

        • +2

          What % internet, laptop, power etc do you claim?

          Guessing 100% based on some comments :)

          I don't know what business you're in, but you seem to have a very broad range of deductions. I don't really find it surprising that you've attracted scrutiny.

          Line of work seems to be this https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/15370765/redir

          OP pays ~$30k in taxes before their $30k in tax deductions…… https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/15370682/redir

          • @JimmyF: lol are you his auditor? You seem to have him sussed :)

            • @SlickMick: @slickMick Has asked many more questions than the auditor. .but I appreciate the scrutiny practice. No issues so far.

          • @JimmyF: Not quite. Something like 40%. With Factor 2 security, you can't do my job anymore without a phone.. so there's also that.
            As for Tax… that's not how it works. I / we all pay tax on our initial incomes - $110k ish for me, then submit my $30k of deductions. My tax is then recalculated on $80k and I pay tax on the $80k amount. The difference is refunded.

      • +6

        Do you know if any of my time is claimable? (Since they haven't simply appointed an auditor and asking me to track down things like a 2013 job application through Freedom of Information)? Spent weeks on this already..and that's just 2017.

        I have three sets of bad news for you.

        1. It's not.
        2. That fact you're wondering about whether this is an opportunity to ram even more deductions into a tax return is a sign of a bigger problem (hint: a tax audit is not a good time to try to claim additional deductions for spurious things)
        3. This audit is going to be very expensive for you, and I don't mean in regard to your time.
    • +1

      So this is the go for complaints around the process, time frames and acceptance of evidence:

      https://www.igt.gov.au

  • If it helps anyone in the future.

    If some of your stuff is stolen , burnt, destroyed..

    Use this.

    https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?DocID=TXR/TR9724/NA…

  • +6

    Double down and claim extra stuff. That'll show em.

    • I do have a bit I didnt claim…

      But reality is it doesn't matter. I have a legit claim that follows tax law..but they say they don't like it because it's not normal and want me to withdraw it all anyway.

      The concensus is to roll over and take it.

      But I don't roll well…

  • +1

    was your tax return lodged late? because generally, you're only supposed to need to keep returns for 5 years after lodgement date.

    https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/income-deduc…

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