Office Jobs and WFH Policies: Mid Year 2024 Status Check

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            zanzir on 14/06/2024 - 17:25

            @tonka: Are we confusing things here? Are you saying I need to pay tax if I'm working remotely from Bali for 2 weeks? If I go to the UK to see customers, am I paying tax twice for those 2 weeks?

            EDIT: Oh right you're using the 6 month example from the guy above

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              tonka on 14/06/2024 - 18:50

              @zanzir: I'm using 6 years of experience in managing employees working under tax treaties. 'Oh right'. Nobody cares if you're dodging OS tax obligation or deceiving your employer. But no need to try and bs to us it's legit. Or are you now trying to say this special system you have is just two weeks. if so then that's where the LOL belongs.

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                zanzir on 14/06/2024 - 23:49

                @tonka: I don't understand whether you're using 'you' in the literal or figurative sense hence the confusion. You don't need to shell out your credentials bud, congrats on 6 years but I just simply misunderstood the other guy's example. Jesus.

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                  tonka on 15/06/2024 - 19:26

                  @zanzir: I was discussing where you stated "you pay tax wherever you work from' ie you work from Bali you pay tax in Bali. And I'm saying that doesn't work if you are trying to disguise your location from your employer as they have to pay tax for you in Aust. So you would be paying double tax. Also how long you can work in a country but pay tax in Australia, is governed by tax treaties that are different in every country if they exist. Where they exist they are usually limited to 6 months in a year. Perhaps "you pay tax wherever you work from' wasn't what you meant?

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    tonka on 13/06/2024 - 14:27

    Tax treaties generally cover 6 months. So a company classify an employee OS as an Aust employee for 6 months and pay tax etc for them in Aust. After 6 months they are the employee of the country they are in and the company has to become an employer there and pay tax there etc (lots of extra expense and admin overhead).
    The individual is also subject to tax rules, so after 6 months is possibly committing tax evasion in the country they are in if busted.
    Every country has it's own treaties and may vary.

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    gromit on 15/06/2024 - 21:42

    yes working in other countries is a legal and Tax minefield. Presents all sorts of issues from tax and visa status to liability and legal issues with them paying someone in another country without declaring it their. Any method to hide it with VPN's/ESIMS etc is basically opening yourself and the company up to a world of legal pain if caught.

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    geekcohen on 17/06/2024 - 08:51

    Been doing it for the last 12 months in the new role.

    We have daily meetings along with other tools and systems in place. It is a global company and they have an Australian Entity which is who I am paid by. So no issues with tax etc, it is all above board.

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  dealsucker on 13/06/2024 - 07:50

  We have to do 40% of time in office, comes to around 2 days a week which is way worse than 1 day every 2 weeks with my last employer.

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  MessyG on 13/06/2024 - 08:05

  +3

  Healthcare worker. 95% at work in person at the hospital but I really like that meetings are on Zoom now. I could leave and do telehealth I guess but I rely on nonverbal cues a lot. I love that so many people are WFH because it means less people getting sick in poorly fitted out hotboxes of illness. I sometimes wonder if people might return to the office if the offices were nice places to work in, instead of pods of hotdesks but wont hold my breath. I also like that the roads aren't as congested so getting to work is a bit easier for everyone who has to be there in person.

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    ttt888 on 13/06/2024 - 15:59

    +3

    Yup , western govt should enforce minimum 3 days wfh (jobs that can be conducted efficiently from home) for mental benefits, less pollution from traffic, consuming less oil so we don't support that industry ..etc etc etc..

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  Brianqpr on 13/06/2024 - 08:48

  +1

  Official company policy is 2 days a week in the office.

  My team has a special arrangement and we only have to go in once a fortnight.

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  bigbadaboom on 13/06/2024 - 11:03

  +1

  As the poll results suggests, most are working very flexibly now. 3 learnings:

  1) Where there is less flexibility, there's a lot of gaslighting by management to make it seem like 'this WFH thing isn't going to last'.

  2) Job market is crap right now (low consumer spending so hiring is down, the lay-offs from the COVID over hiring still saturating the market, high migration numbers). So 2nd half of 2024 will be when shit employers have the most leverage. So this is the period they can do the worst.

  3) Most of the agendas against it is driven by the desperate commercial real estate sector and employers stressing about the plummeting values of their buildings. This too shall pass.

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  nedski on 13/06/2024 - 12:10

  +2

  Im slightly conflicted here. In my previous role, I hated coming into the office and saw no need for it. Then a year ago, I moved into a management role and was brought on board because the team that did X skill, were pretty poor in this area while I had 10 years of experience. The team had a WFH mentality and only had to come in 1 day a week but even then they would find excuses not to come in.

  The team culture and morale was poor as well. While I didnt want to come into the office more, I have seen the benefits of going to two days a week in the office. Mostly for the purpose of knowledge and upskilling. We are in the process of getting all new people in the team with the last legacy person finishing up in the next two weeks, so hopefully with the two days in the office and no more toxic legacy people, we should be doing better going forward.

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  tonka on 13/06/2024 - 14:34

  -2

  I am curious what the impact on young people will be. You learn so much from the people around you on work ethic and just trips and tricks and professionalism etc. Perhaps WFH needs to be balanced with really solid mentor processes. On the other hand would young people have less exposure to gaslighting and bullying and bad habits, or perhaps even bullying could be less visible and it could be worse.

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  ReaperX22 on 13/06/2024 - 17:24

  Was previously fully remote (office option still available, I went in by choice once a week almost always, sometimes twice)

  Recently 'enforced' 3x a week hybrid in office. But it's more for general purpose blanket rule, my team is a little more flexible though will probably commit to 2x a week (I've been on holidays so it's not been an issue yet regardless)

  (I work in IT. I no longer manage any physical assets, machines, servers etc. It's all cloud based. I have no reason to be in the office. We were recently fully acquired so it's a 'new' office and I don't know 70% of the people, and will never work with them anyway… Ah well)

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  u9tvfr on 13/06/2024 - 17:43

  3 days a week hotdesking with number of desks = 0.6 x number of employees (including managers with assigned stations / offices). Flexible enough to move either way, 90% desk capacity maybe 4 days a week so there's not much room to get more days in the office.

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  grimo82 on 13/06/2024 - 19:06

  Govt gig - post covid was at least half the time in the office (some considered this two days, others three) - nominate days via WFH agreeement with manager.

  Recently changed to 'no expected min number of days' , but please come in for your own mental health and to work with peers.

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  yokel on 13/06/2024 - 19:54

  What’s that smell coming from the microwave?

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    timhn on 14/06/2024 - 04:56

    Fish lunch from the intern.

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    geekcohen on 14/06/2024 - 05:59

    Are you sure it is coming from the microwave and it isn't Barry across from you?

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  narcoleptic-haze on 14/06/2024 - 08:39

  +2

  My work is firmly against any sort of WFH option (even when I was still testing positive for COVID recently). The reason being, during the mandated lockdowns, our productivity went down apparently, and the boss attributes that to everyone slacking off, despite clear effects for almost the entire team.

  In reality, our productivity went down, because during the lockdowns he also mandated that EVERY single little task/email/word doc/breath etc had to go through him to be approved first. So most of the time we were all just waiting for approval to do our usual work.. Most staff had been with the company for 5+ years at that point, so I don't really get the distrust.

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  sandman20104159 on 14/06/2024 - 09:10

  -4

  you working from home people really need to go back to the office 5 days a week. so many people are taking advantage of this and working sweet f all. you can see them away for hours and not answering calls. those days are over. get back to the office.

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    smartazz104 on 14/06/2024 - 12:22

    Spoken like a useless middle manager trying to justify their existence.

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      sandman20104159 on 14/06/2024 - 12:47

      good for you.

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    PeelThis on 14/06/2024 - 18:00

    +1

    In my experience the people that slack off at home do the same in the office. Managers need to focus on output or measurable KPIs regardless of WFH or in office and not rely on bums in seats and how long you're there for.

    It's like the old mentality with some work cultures of staying back late to prove you're hard working, if you are consistently staying back to complete work you're either not productive enough during the day or your workload is too high and you need more people in the team, in both cases a manager needs to step in and manage it.

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      sandman20104159 on 17/06/2024 - 08:43

      yeah but remote support with their shity internet speeds is hard and when we ask them to come in they have a huff and puff that they have to come in.

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  mitt on 14/06/2024 - 09:43

  +1

  100% WFH but the company maintains zero office space beyond one of those shared spaces to maintain an address & have a loaner conference room for occasional in person meetings.

  The money they save on office space far offsets any supposed productivity losses from WFH but tbh I dont think anyone on the team would or could do more.

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  cnrmlj on 14/06/2024 - 11:02

  What's your workplace doing? Mandated 40% in the office over the course of the year. There is tracking and reporting and consequences if under.

  Has it changed recently? No.

  What's the vibe among the staff? Varies. Some (like me) just get on with it. Others are still complaining about it at every opportunity because they worked from home during covid and stuff got done.

  In [present time], would you look to change jobs if required to be in the office full time? Probably not, but i also don't expect that will happen.

  What industry are you in? What's your role? Financial Services, Project Manager.

  What would your ideal scenario be? Like most companies in my industry we have people in multiple locations in some cities, in different cities and different countries. I rarely have meetings with everyone in the same room unless its a 1:1 and even then not all the time. There certainly is benefit in being in the office but i see little point in going into the office and spending the whole day on my own on teams calls. I spent a fair chunk of yesterday and Wednesday working with someone that was easiest done in person. Today is a couple of short meetings, updating some packs for meetings next week and updating logs so easily done at home and saves the 3 hours of travel. I think what we have in my company at the moment works well. We get stuff done and catchup in the office on average a couple of times a week.

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  Maxxjet on 14/06/2024 - 11:15

  Uded to be 5 days WFH (at the peak of covid), then 4+1, 3+2 and starting from middle of 2023, 1+4 (1 WFH _ 4 in the office), strongly enforced.

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    hothed on 14/06/2024 - 13:37

    Vote with your feet. If everyone stays and cops it, it will become the new norm. Flexibility is really important to have a ballanced life.

    My wife was in the same situation. She found a job that can be fully remote with a 30% payrise. She goes in 2 days per week as she is new to build connections, however has spent the last fortnight purely WFH.

    It's a game changer especially when you have kids. I've been so lucky to spend time with my kids in the morning and at night. If i was in the office, i wouldnt be able to do that.

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      PeelThis on 14/06/2024 - 18:16

      +1

      Amen and same here. The commute is my biggest gripe with working in the office as a Dad. I lose 3 hours in commuting a day into the CBD that can be spent with my family, helping with school drop off, dinner, chores, spending quality time with family, a little more sleep. It all adds up and the benefits to me are significant and really the only upside in current times with cost of living and employers not as forthcoming with raises and bonuses.

      2 years ago my employer didn't want to rock the boat and actually valued us as new staff were hard to attract and expensive.
      Now the tides have turned they are becoming more brazen with mandated office days and subtly holding job security over our heads, reminding us we're lucky to have a job in this economy let alone the privilege or WFH and we can kiss raises goodbye.
      I agree with the job security (the reminder is a bit of a power play) but jeez just let me have one good thing to keep me happily working away even if my cost of living is taking a hit.

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  ozbargainerlife1 on 14/06/2024 - 22:39

  5 days WFH but temporarily until next year only. Has impacted promotions

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  Ryk on 19/06/2024 - 17:14

  1 day a week in te office and the hours for that day are very flexible, in at 9-ish, most are heading home by 4 to get ahead of the traffic. likely to login from home for some of the evening.

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