Car Buying Scam?

LSingularityOS on 30/05/2024 - 13:38

I am currently selling a car in NSW for on Gumtree and Facebook.

Someone in VIC has called me and is interested in buying sight unseen. They are willing to pay $250 deposit via BSB and account number, then pay the rest before having it picked up by a car carrier. The car is low value around $5k so its not massive money being handled (relatively)

If I go through with this, if I confirm the money is actually in my account before letting the car go, how safe is this? Is this some kind of scam and is there any way the person can pull their money back after?

TIA

Automotive

Comments

  • Sye on 30/05/2024 - 13:42
    +33

    Is this still available?

    • jv on 30/05/2024 - 14:35
      +27

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      • El cheepo on 30/05/2024 - 15:26
        +51

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        Possibly the most relevant thing i have ever seen JV post

      • Murkymerv on 30/05/2024 - 20:58
        +3

        Oh jv , "You've done it again".

      • blitz on 31/05/2024 - 12:37
        +21

        OMG even the white space is in bold

        • jv on 31/05/2024 - 12:43
          +13

          You're the only one that noticed.

        • kaleidoscope on 01/06/2024 - 20:53

          I bet that period on next line guy can’t pull this trick off like ever…

  • grog on 30/05/2024 - 13:42
    +40

    99.9999% scam

    • Sye on 30/05/2024 - 14:25
      +8

      Your comment has an accuracy of ±0.0001%

  • BOGOF on 30/05/2024 - 13:42
    +8

    Its a scam

  • SingularityOS on 30/05/2024 - 13:44
    +1

    Thanks for the comments so far, I won't be proceeding. What is the process of the scam? They somehow get their money back and have the car?

    • BOGOF on 30/05/2024 - 13:47
      +31

      They are not interested in your car. It's usually a fake payment or fake overpayment and get you to refund money they haven't paid.

      • Sinnerator on 31/05/2024 - 08:33
        +4

        just DON'T refund it
        make them buy the car and ensure they have paid in full with no mulligans

        • BOGOF on 31/05/2024 - 08:39
          +25

          They dont pay in the first place. It's a scam, they show a fake payment slip/transaction, then rely on the gullability of the seller to refund a payment that was never made.
          They never pay anything and they dont want the car.

          • Minimum chips on 31/05/2024 - 10:55
            +6

            @BOGOF: This, or they use a bank account they have control of (from another scam) to make the payment. It shows up in the mark's account (usually as pending) so they think it's legit, but after they've "paid back" the overpayment, the original payment gets reversed as a fraudulant transaction.

            It's more involved than showing fake receipts, but the organized crime rings that manage these scammers collect bank accounts and personal details as a resource. They will also send ID documents they've harvested from other scams or from data breaches to "prove" who they are.

          • whyisave on 31/05/2024 - 19:04
            +3

            @BOGOF: So, that means before producing the "fake payslip",
            they procured a piece of information of the seller,
            ie. name, account name, BSB, account number
            (combined with their phone number if it's in the advert listing)

            Another one of the buyer's associate can contact the seller
            and ask for address to come to inspect the car,…but never show up.

            The 1st buyer and the 2nd associate,
            will then have more information of the seller:
            name, address, phone number,
            account name, BSB #, etc. etc.

            Maybe ask for Paypal account details, etc.

            Over time, building a complete profile of the seller

          • Andard on 02/06/2024 - 09:37

            @BOGOF: THIS is what people need to know.

    • Sye on 30/05/2024 - 13:47
      +7

      Probably send you fake receipt for the $250. Then ask you to pay the "car carrier" $250. The car carrier is of course the scammer. They don't want the car.

    • Sterio on 31/05/2024 - 08:18

      And zero communication on the phone?

    • blitz on 31/05/2024 - 12:40
      +2

      They don't want your car. They want you to focus on selling your car - they want you to think about getting $5000. While you're thinking about getting $5000, you're not thinking about the measly $250 that they really are after for scamming you.

      It's an advance fee scam - keep the mark thinking about the millions owned by the dead prince, not the three or four hundred you need to pay to get it. Here, you would say yes to the deal, then they'd keep altering the deal so that you pay more and more bits of money into an account somewhere. When you dry up or get wise, they'll move on to the next person.

  • Wiadro on 30/05/2024 - 13:55
    +5

    lol what, how do you not realise this is a scam

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 30/05/2024 - 19:25
      +32

      But the buyer is a FIFO & in the military.

      • BargainCowboy on 31/05/2024 - 08:06
        +9

        Oil rig no?

        • DashCam AKA Rolts on 31/05/2024 - 08:06
          +1

          That as well.

          • CocaKoala on 31/05/2024 - 20:11
            +6

            @DashCam AKA Rolts: Ah, one of those oil rig military units right in the heart of nigeria. I'm told only royalty could join that brigade.

            • DashCam AKA Rolts on 01/06/2024 - 02:21
              +2

              @CocaKoala: Buyer gets embarrassed when people thank them for their service, so doesn't like to give their rank.
              Likewise the title of prince just attracts the paparazzi. Poor Harry learned this lesson the hard way.

    • Tleyx on 31/05/2024 - 08:52
      +1

      Theres no cars in the whole of Victoria

  • Sye on 30/05/2024 - 13:55
    +24

    If you have the spare time you could string the scammer along and bait them to find out their scam. Just remember any receipts they send will be fake and obviously don't send them or anyone else any money.

  • Euphemistic on 30/05/2024 - 14:07
    +5

    Even if it is legit, ask why someone would want to pick up your car from interstate and pay someone to transport it. Surely its not pruced that cheap that its worth payogn for transport. Secondly, unless its a rare or interesting car noone is going to want it.

    • SingularityOS on 30/05/2024 - 14:56
      -5

      Supposedly he wants it for his wife as it's a rare colour. He gave a whole story about his life, asking if certain places were still open in Sydney where he moved from. Seemed too smart for an average scammer.

      • pinchies on 30/05/2024 - 15:14
        +33

        Giving too much detail / personal info is a common hallmark of liars and scammers.

      • Euphemistic on 30/05/2024 - 15:54
        +3

        Fair enough. Then you revert to scammer detect mode and insist on cash on pick up, no couriers. If they really do want it, theyll drive up.

      • ihbh on 30/05/2024 - 17:13

        Supposedly he wants it for his wife as it's a rare colour

        Would it be cheaper to paint car than transport interstate?

        • MS Paint on 30/05/2024 - 18:31
          +3

          You can get a car from Perth to Melbourne for $1000. To paint a car properly is $10,000

          • ihbh on 30/05/2024 - 18:51

            @MS Paint: Who paints a $5k bomb for $10k?

            • MS Paint on 30/05/2024 - 19:48
              +2

              @ihbh: Exactly. So if the car is semi desirable and a rare colour you would pay to transport it sight unseen rather than repaint another.

              • ihbh on 30/05/2024 - 19:52
                -1

                @MS Paint: But if it's $5k, wouldn't it be scratched/dented to buggery?

                • MS Paint on 30/05/2024 - 20:08
                  +3

                  @ihbh: My daughter has a car worth that and it's in great condition. So no.

      • freefall101 on 30/05/2024 - 17:19
        +2

        Scams are all highly coordinated and well scripted. This attempt on you here is far worse than what the average scammer does these days. Probably worth doing some reading on common scams to keep yourself up to date on what is done these days.

        • Sammy2000 on 30/05/2024 - 19:08
          +2

          The script use to be a strong about someone working on an oil rig.

      • drfuzzy on 01/06/2024 - 20:06

        You seem a bit attached and emotionally invested.
        The scammer has picked a good mark.

  • Mechz on 30/05/2024 - 14:12
    +8

    Why can't they just transfer the whole amount up front?

    See what they say about that.

    • bohn on 31/05/2024 - 23:10
      +1

      Yeah, also maybe he could tell them that his wife really loves the rare colour and now he wants 10k instead of 5k and is that okay….

  • Sye on 30/05/2024 - 14:16
    -1

    The only thing different with this (compared to conventional scams) is that they called you. Did they have an accent? Did they have a caller ID? Normally they just use email to communicate.

  • MS Paint on 30/05/2024 - 14:24

    Is the car a semi desirable model that is has limited numbers on the market at the moment?

    What other questions did they ask during the phone call?

    It's not looking like a scam to me yet.

  • JimmyF on 30/05/2024 - 14:27
    +1

    Car Buying Scam?

    Cars are generally a scam, such money pits…. but that is a different thread! ;)

    Someone in VIC has called me and is interested in buying sight unseen. They are willing to pay $250 deposit via BSB and account number, then pay the rest before having it picked up by a car carrier. The car is low value around $5k so its not massive money being handled (relatively)

    Depends. What sort of car are you selling? If it is something special, then I could see them buying it from a interstate seller. But if it is just a run of the mill car like a 1990s Camry, then sounds like a scam to get the car to part out or get you to pay the car carrier.

    Did they ask any other questions or just straight up offer to buy it no questions asked?

    Being such a low figure, ask them to get a friend to bring the cash around to you instead.

    If I go through with this, if I confirm the money is actually in my account before letting the car go, how safe is this? Is this some kind of scam and is there any way the person can pull their money back after?

    There are some ways for the money to be reversed once sent etc.

    But basically if it sounds too good to be true, then it generally is.

    If they are a honest buyer, they'll find a way to make it happen. If they are a scammer, they'll want to play by their playbook rules.

    • DoctorCalculon on 30/05/2024 - 20:02

      There are some ways for the money to be reversed once sent etc.

      Still possible if the money lands in your account, and you transfer it out with a zero account balance?

      AFAIK, it can happen with bad cheques but not for EFT (without your consent).

      • JimmyF on 30/05/2024 - 22:17

        Still possible if the money lands in your account, and you transfer it out with a zero account balance?

        The bank never loses, they'll just put your account into negative!

        • DoctorCalculon on 30/05/2024 - 23:55
          +1

          True, and interest will accrue until you bring the account balance back to zero or greater.

          I have never heard of this happen with a EFT / bank transfer.
          The receiver needs to provide explicit consent for the funds to be recalled.

          • JimmyF on 31/05/2024 - 08:03
            -2

            @DoctorCalculon:

            True, and interest will accrue until you bring the account balance back to zero or greater.

            Bank always wins!

            The receiver needs to provide explicit consent for the funds to be recalled.

            If they claim 'mistaken internet payment' within 10 business days they don't need consent! Based on afca fact sheet.

            Simply transfer the money with the wrong name to the account holder, then claim mistaken internet payment. Money comes back!

            https://www.afca.org.au/sites/default/files/2020-04/fact-she…

            • DoctorCalculon on 31/05/2024 - 09:51

              @JimmyF:

              Simply transfer the money with the wrong name to the account holder, then claim mistaken internet payment. Money comes back!

              Abraca dabra…

              You do realise the "Account Name" field is completely useless.

              The onus is on the sender to ensure they get the BSB and Account Number 100% correct, or use PayID.

              I have read plenty of stories where folks have sent large sums of money to the wrong account because they mistyped the account number just by one digit. The funds were never recovered from the incorrect recipient.

              • JimmyF on 31/05/2024 - 10:00
                -1

                @DoctorCalculon:

                You do realise the "Account Name" field is completely useless.

                I am aware, but did you read the fact sheet I sent you from the……Australian Financial Complaints Authority? Surely they would know how this all works, considering they are the….Australian Financial Complaints Authority body after all!

                The onus is on the sender to ensure they get the BSB and Account Number 100% correct, or use PayID.

                Unless they claim 'mistaken internet payment' that meets the criteria and yank it back within in 10 days. Hence putting the wrong name in a useless field to paint the picture it was a 'mistaken' transfer.

                I have read plenty of stories where folks have sent large sums of money to the wrong account because they mistyped the account number just by one digit. The funds were never recovered from the incorrect recipient.

                Did they wait over 10 days to recover the funds? If so, then yes you need the receivers permission to get it back as per the fact sheet.

                Anyhow, you asked how they could do it, I advised the criteria as per ACFA. Don't shoot the messenger if you don't agree.

  • altomic on 30/05/2024 - 14:39

    are they buying it for their son as a gift as they just graduated from a top Sydney university?

    this is a scam.

  • onetwothreefour on 30/05/2024 - 14:43
    +4

    Do they work on an oil rig?

  • Brick Tamland on 30/05/2024 - 15:50
    +9

    Good rule of thumb. If the prospective buyer is not interested in inspecting the car then its a scam

  • Cluster on 30/05/2024 - 15:58
    +12

    It's 100% a scam.

    What will happen next:

    They'll pretend to pay you more than asked, usually by a thousand or maybe even two. You'll get a fake receipt, along with a quick plea that you've accidently been sent the money that was meant to go to the carrier. Of course, they've sent you nothing, but want real money from you.

    This scam has been going around for at least a decade. Everyone who sells a car online gets at least one message.

    You can play along if you want and see where the scammer wants the money sent. They may have a local money mule, whose details you can forward to the fraud division of that bank. The scammer is almost certainly not in Australia.

    • DoctorCalculon on 30/05/2024 - 19:58
      +8

      If you have the time, I would say play along.
      When the scammer asks for a refund of the overpaid amount, sent them a fake receipt just for shits and giggles.

    • pegaxs on 30/05/2024 - 23:26

      The other scam it could be is the “fee forward” scam, and that is way more likely considering they have a “car carrier” angle worked out…

      It works similar. They will pretend to forward you more than you asked for and say “I just need you to forward this onto the car carrier for me…”. They will send a fake deposit slip in the hope that you will send the car carrier the fee… trick is, there is no car carrier.

      • DoctorCalculon on 30/05/2024 - 23:56
        +2

        trick is, there is no car carrier.

        The car carrier is also the scammer.

    • rickdwp on 31/05/2024 - 02:25

      Yeah ok but no one gets a phone call from the scammer, the second you ask for one you get the "Sorry im on an army base and have no reception" etc

      • gromit on 31/05/2024 - 08:24

        not true at all, I got phone calls from the scammers when selling my motorbike.

      • Euphemistic on 31/05/2024 - 11:15

        Used to be the case, but theyre learning based on what anti-scam websites point out.

  • localhost on 30/05/2024 - 17:04
    +6

    Or… proceed with the sale, but wait until money are in your account. No screenshots, no calls, no relatives… only money.

    • BigBirdy on 31/05/2024 - 09:18
      +1

      This ^^^.
      Make it clear the car doesn't leave until you have the money in your account. If the buyer 'overpays', tell them you'll transfer back the overpayment after the transaction is completed, ie the car has gone. Scammers don't want your car, which has a traceable VIN, they want your cash.

  • mapax on 30/05/2024 - 17:37
    +3

    What kind of car?

    • MS Paint on 30/05/2024 - 20:13
      +12

      FFS hopefully OP answers this soon. This will be the ultimate giveaway. If it's a gen 1 Hyundai excel then it's a scam. If it's a series 1 VT SS manual commodore in Tiger Mica then I'd also be very interested.

      • DazMon on 31/05/2024 - 21:02
        +1

        Yeah Tiger Mica.

  • Brucet on 30/05/2024 - 19:57

    Ask for Cash payment.

  • rickdwp on 31/05/2024 - 02:24
    +3

    Did you actually talk to them on the phone? Pretty rare for this type of scam to involve a real person talking to you on a phone. I've bought cars interstate before and have paid deposit sight unseen with rest cash on pickup.

    By default I would 100% assume anything on Gumtree/Facebook is a scam, but if you've spoken to them and confirmed they are a real person I see no reason to not proceed. Do a facetime call and get them to send a license and get paid, they can take the car. Obviously be smart and don't refund any money, don't believe any transfer receipts, don't give them an email etc.

    As someone who has bought and sold at least 50 cars, scams are dead obvious 99/100 and the fact they actually called you on a phone makes it pretty unlikely to be a scam.

    • nothommus on 31/05/2024 - 08:15
      +1

      Agree with this entirely, people are so quick to jump on SCAM SCAM SCAM they dont even consider the fact it could be legit. Its the same with people and 'nO pAy iD'. PayID is perfectly safe if you arent a moron. People buy vehicles sight unseen all the time. Everything you said is legit - if it is a scam, you'll weed them out pretty quick.

      • Herbse on 31/05/2024 - 11:48

        "cash is king" - every boomer who doesn't know how to check their bank balance

  • this is us on 31/05/2024 - 04:28
    +13

    Was selling my car worth around 30k a couple months ago. Advertised on carsales and a couple came to check the car. They seemed interested, made an offer (29k) and were happy to pay 1000 deposit. I accepted the offer, they made deposit and the guy agreed to meet me to complete the transaction. On the day before the agreed date for the transaction, I suggested we could meet at the closest bank branch to deposit his bank cheque. He didn't like and started to push for me to accept a bank cheque as "it's as safe as it gets". I don't know you but I can't identify a fake bank cheque. I said I was happy to accept a bank cheque but needed the money to be cleared, and meeting at the branch was the best way to make sure we were both happy. He then didn't want to meet me at the bank and said that I was being difficult, and they decided to cancel the transaction. After he failed to explain why he didn't want to meet me at the bank to deposit the money, I just gave him the deposit back and cancelled the sale. I eventually sold the car to someone who was happy to make the transaction via Osko and everything went well. Everyone was happy.

    I just assume that the other couple was trying to scam me as I can't understand why someone would agree to meet me close to my place but refuse to go to the bank 300m away to make 9 deposit.

    In your case, it looks scammy and it's likely something unexpected would happen on the day to convince you to release the keys before the funds are cleared.

    • Bren20 on 31/05/2024 - 09:24
      +6

      Why'd you give the deposit back?

      • ItsMeAgro on 31/05/2024 - 11:43
        +2

        Why not? Not my money, not my circus, not my monkeys.

        • Bren20 on 31/05/2024 - 15:39
          +2

          2 reasons

          What's the purpose of a deposit if not to compensate the seller if the buyer arbitrarily pulls out

          Also, now you're sending real money to someone you don't know. This feel like a scam to me, buyer wants you to return the $1000 deposit, and all of a sudden their $1000 deposit is also gone…

          • Euphemistic on 31/05/2024 - 16:02

            @Bren20: The deposit is not just to compensate the seller, its a sign of good faith the transaction will be completed. Its a holding fee. Any 'compensation' component needs to be identified up front.

            • Bren20 on 31/05/2024 - 22:00

              @Euphemistic: I view deposits the opposite way, unless you've specifically said it's refundable then I expect it would not be returned for a change of mind.

              In my mind the deposit covers the wasted sellers time, where they've potentially refused other buyers.

              • this is us on 01/06/2024 - 03:06

                @Bren20: That's unlikely to be the view in court… If it's not written, it's not agreed and I have no case.

      • this is us on 01/06/2024 - 03:04
        +3

        Because my time and peace of mind is worth more than $1000.

        If that was a scam (likely), I want nothing to do with these people. When I gave him the receipt, which already had my name, I didn't write anything about deposit being forfeit or something like that. I could say he made me lose my time and potential offers, but this would make me lose more time in court until I can actually prove that he made me lose money and was trying to scam me.

        I honestly don't have the time or patience and just returned his deposit using a bank account that I barely use, same account he transferred the money to.

  • drewbytes on 31/05/2024 - 07:26
    +1

    I've bought several cars interstate before doing exactly what you describe. Pay a deposit to bank account to hold the car, organise car carrier, and pay balance before car is picked by the carrier. it could be legit.

    • gromit on 31/05/2024 - 08:20

      You have done this with cheap junkers? My brother does this for his utes as he can usually get them from WA cheaper, but he uses legitimate means. Not scumtree and certainly not vehicles so cheap that the transport makes the whole thing unviable.

      • drewbytes on 01/06/2024 - 07:23
        +2

        I've bought an $8,000 car, a $2,500 car and an $8,000 motorbike sight unseen by the method I described.

        • gromit on 01/06/2024 - 12:48
          +1

          how the hell do you justify $750-$1500 shipping cost for a $2500 car. I assume it must have been some rare item.

          • mousie on 01/06/2024 - 17:26
            +1

            @gromit: Plot twist. He is the buyer

          • ArjaytheGuy on 01/06/2024 - 18:39
            +1

            @gromit: Or… and hear me out here…. he factors $750 into the price and figures thay paying $3250 is a price hes happy to pay for the vehicle.

            It doesnt make a lot of sense (since you would imagine the local buyers would be looking at a cheaper price all up). But maybe he just really wants that particular vehicle, needs it in a certain time frame (sometimes overpaying does end up saving you when you're in a time crunch).

            • Euphemistic on 01/06/2024 - 18:55
              +1

              @ArjaytheGuy: Most will take into account the cost of delivery for a purchase. Spendkng a few hundred on fuel to go get a car interstate isnt much if the car is over $10k. Its just a different set of sums if the car is $2500 and across the country.

          • drewbytes on 02/06/2024 - 12:27

            @gromit: One was shipped Brisbane to Townsville (many years ago), shipping wasn't that much. It was a Datsun 1600 that had a lot of work done (would be worth a motza now), and the other was about 4 years ago, another Datsun from Queensland to Canberra, that cost about $1000 to ship. But yes you factor the shipping into the price as to whether it's worth it or not.

            • Euphemistic on 03/06/2024 - 20:55

              @drewbytes: Definitely fit into the rare/unusual amd enthusiast category. Not many people shipping a base model yaris across country. Plenty shipping collector cars.

  • TrumpisKing on 31/05/2024 - 07:29
    +3

    Obviously a scam 😂🤦🏼‍♀️. No one in their right mind is buying a car without seeing it in person first. Surely you aren't this gullible? If you are, don't sell online.

    • Euphemistic on 31/05/2024 - 11:18
      +1

      Theres a fee posters i this thread indicating they buy cars sight unseen. Some people will do it, but its not common.

  • gromit on 31/05/2024 - 08:18
    +1

    This scam has been repeated Ad Nauseum over the years, almost word for word what you are describing. The reason it is repeated so often is that people like yourself think "how can this possibly go wrong if I check all the details". site unseen, no haggling is a massive red flag, add in sending a carrier to get it and it goes from 95% likely scammer to basically 100%.

  • silo on 31/05/2024 - 08:28

    I legit once wanted to buy a car from Victoria (I'm from Sydney. The car was in better condition with better specs and still cheaper than what was around in Sydney. So I texted the seller and even said I'd fly over to pick it up myself.. but of course I was treated as a scammer lol

  • Sye on 31/05/2024 - 08:51

    buying sight unseen

    99% chance of being a Scammer and 1% chance of being another OzBargainer as only OzBargainers buy cars sight unseen.

  • 2esc on 31/05/2024 - 09:01
    +6

    Ive sold plenty of things sight unseen.

    You dont release the vehicle until the money is in your account. People saying they can send a fake receipt of payment. You dont rely on a receipt from the buyer that they have paid. YOU look at your account balance and dont release the car until its in your account its when the buyer wants to change the agreed process at the last minute such as a back cheque in person.

    It's either cleared in your account or cash.

    • gromit on 31/05/2024 - 09:42

      and if they are using a stolen account or use one of the various tricks to make it appear an accidental transfer then the money is reversed (even if you move it) and you are left holding the debt and no car. Many variations of this scam and they all start with, no haggling, buying site unseen and arranging someone else to pick it up as they are interstate/overseas/on defence base/oil rig etc. yeah it could be the 1 in a thousand that is legitimate, but all the signs say otherwise.

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