Driving Fine for Illegal U-Turn I Didn't Do - Request for Advice

Lkealii on 08/04/2024 - 13:40
Last edited 19/04/2024 - 10:31 by 1 other user

Hi community, I'm looking for a bit of support on how to go about proving my innocence.

I made a right turn off the main highway at a traffic light, drove down the street about 100 meters, pulled into a drivewayonto the left shoulder near the first dirt driveway (slightly going onto the dirt driveway) and then swung a U-turn to go back in the other direction, coming back to the main intersection so I could turn left back onto the main highway. So in essence, my objective was to turn around and go the opposite direction on the highway, which I accomplished.

However, after coming back onto the highway in the opposite direction, police lights appeared behind me and I was pulled over for an illegal U-turn at the traffic light. I explained to the officer that I think he made a mistake as I had not turned around at the traffic light, but it was his word vs my word. He said he had footage of it, and I asked to see it, but he said he isn't able to show me on the side of the road. I could tell he was making excuses as when I proclaimed I didn't do a U-turn he said I must have ran a red light when I was turning back onto the highway because I did everything so quick. I video recorded the conversation with him.

I've gone back to the site where the incident occurred and record a video of exactly what I did. There is over 40 seconds between the turn at the light, to when I finally make my way back onto the highway. That would have to be the slowest U-turn of all time, so the officer must have seen a similar car to mine or was daydreaming and time-continuum skipped for him.

I've contested via the NSW penalty portal and they have upheld the decision:

"Drivers cannot make a U-turn across single or double continuous dividing lines or at traffic lights unless signs allow. The issuing officer noted you made a U-turn after turning right at traffic lights."

The letter says that if I want the video footage from the officer's car, then I can reach out to the local police station.

Update 8 Apr 2024 on getting the footage

I've contacted the police station to get the footage and they took my details so they could give it to the police officer and he can contact me directly. I told them that he has no incentive to contact me and I'd like to be able to follow him up — and they said I could come down to the police station occasionally but no guarantee he will be there.

I've contacted a solicitor and they said that in order to force the police to handover the footage I'd have to plead Not Guilty. For legal representation at the hearing it will cost me $3,300. The court fees would be ~$65, and the judge has the power to raise the fine if he/she chooses to do so. The risk is I show up on the court date and the officer says the footage is gone, then it's his word against mine, and to me that means I'll lose.

So I think the only options at this point is to either pay the fine and move on, OR self-represent (or use a free on-duty solicitor @
EightImmortals) pleading Not Guilty.

Update 9 Apr 2024 on how I turned around on Crozier Rd
I pulled onto the left shoulder near the first dirt driveway on the left (slightly driving over it but not into it), then swung a U-turn. I didn't actually do a 3-point turn. I did not do a 3-point turn. Apologies if this confused people, I don't think it changes the situation though as I got the violation for doing a U-turn on Forest Way.

Update 18 Apr 2024
I've been a bit lax and never called the Police Station again asking for the footage. I guess I've been avoiding the confrontation. Based one some of the replies I plan to submit a formal letter to the police station tomorrow (thank you Chat GPT). I have to respond back to Revenue NSW by April 25 on whether I will go to court. Once you choose to go to court you can't just pay the fine anymore. I'm leaning towards going to court just to learn how it all works and maybe it will help others in the future. Worst case is I lose and they notch up the fine and fees a bit. If they are unable to provide me the footage I can put that as evidence in court. As soon as I confirm that I want to take it to court, I will issue in writing my plea of not guilty and request the video evidence as well. Hopefully I get a response well before the hearing.

I've returned back to the scene and recorded this video per the request of many. Probably the main difference is my fine was around 7pm when there was much less traffic, so the red light on the way back was much shorter.
<need to reupload the video to a different provider. I was using Veed but seems you need a login to view. >
The Fine Notice states the following:

Offence: Make U-turn at intersection with traffic lights
Location: Forest Way Belrose
Note, it carries 2 demerit points and is $302.

Automotive Traffic Fine

Comments

  • morse on 08/04/2024 - 18:55
    +1

    I think this need to go to court with OzBargain comments provided in the submission of evidence.

  • mskeggs on 08/04/2024 - 21:08
    +19

    If you elect to go to court, you should advise the police in writing you require access to the video evidence.
    It is likely when you turn up to court the officer will be mysteriously unavailable, and the fine will be dropped.
    Annoying and a waste of time, but there is no reason you would have a harsher penalty based on the information you have provided.

    • kealii on 08/04/2024 - 21:33
      +2

      🤞 (fingers crossed)

    • Phattattak on 09/04/2024 - 14:54
      +7

      This. The officer has stated they have footage. You requested footage, he denied access. You have requested footage from the police station (make sure this is in writing and dated), and they have not complied.

      When contesting the fine it doesn't not paint them in a good a light when; the evidence has been stated to exist, has been repeatedly requested, but repeatedly access has been denied or not produced. The typical scenario where this occurs is when….the evidence does not exist.

      Good luck.

  • Master Bates on 08/04/2024 - 21:44
    +7

    I've gone back to the site where the incident occurred and record a video of exactly what I did.

    Imagine if they fined you twice, once for the original offence and again for the recreation.

    In any case, I hope you get to 'stick it to the man'.

    • ak47wong on 09/04/2024 - 21:32
      +1

      And hope you never get that rare blood disease, stickitothemaneosis, cos it's hell.

  • Save 50 Cent on 08/04/2024 - 23:56
    +4

    Please take it to court.. if not for your sake, then for everyone else’s sake. The cop would be more hesitant to falsely accuse drivers in the future (note that I didn’t say it would stop him).

    • us3rnam3tak3n on 09/04/2024 - 16:01

      If only false accusations from the police had consequences for them.

  • chumpychops on 09/04/2024 - 06:33
    +1

    Agree with many sentiments here but wish to further motivate you to fight it.
    Self represent. It’s an easy one to keep succinct.

    Request the evidence in writing in advance of the court date.

    The fact they’ve been withholding the footage will not be looked kindly upon by the magistrate if it gets that far. Have each contact with them documented. Be firm, but polite at all times as previously mentioned

    My guess is that it won’t and whilst it will waste time it’ll feel great knowing you’ve done what’s right

  • trapper on 09/04/2024 - 08:01
    -3

    A 3 point turn absolutely falls under the same rules, and is considered the same legally as a u-turn

    Very surprised to see so many here don't seem to know this, and are even actively downvoting people who have given the correct information… bizarre.

    The question here is was this an illegal u-turn at a traffic light or not?

    That depends on the distance from the traffic light, and unless OP has some kind of other evidence to prove their case police testimony will always be given higher value than OP so unfortunately for OP the fine will stand.

    • chumpychops on 09/04/2024 - 08:35

      The OP turned. Drove 100m down the road (perhaps he had to drop something off at that address) then turned in someones driveway before returning to the main road.

      Very unlikely that qualifies as a U-turn.

      • trapper on 09/04/2024 - 08:56
        -2

        You're describing a scenario that did not happen though.

        If OP had stopped in the driveway and dropped something off then that's completely different, and not what was detailed.

        • smartazz104 on 09/04/2024 - 12:11
          +2

          I made a right turn off the main highway at a traffic light, drove down the street about 100 meters, pulled into a driveway, turned around and came back onto the main highway.

          So somehow the officer was able to see that OP hadn't stopped in the driveway…

          • trapper on 09/04/2024 - 13:14

            @smartazz104:

            So somehow the officer was able to see that OP hadn't stopped in the driveway…

            Wait so what is the argument here, it was actually an illegal u-turn but the cop didn't see it?? lol

    • Kingfield on 09/04/2024 - 10:00
      +2

      Is this true? Source please?

      Separately to this, He apparently got done for a U Turn at the light where he turned, not the street where he did the 3 point turn anyways.

      • trapper on 09/04/2024 - 13:34

        https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/whole/html/2012-03-16/sl…

        U-turn means a turn made by a driver so that the driver’s vehicle faces in approximately the opposite direction from which it was facing immediately before the turn was made, but does not include a turn made at a roundabout.

        • oranglama on 09/04/2024 - 15:07
          +1

          so if I turn left, right, right, right, that's still considered U turn and illegal in this scenario?

          • us3rnam3tak3n on 09/04/2024 - 16:08
            +1

            @oranglama: Or going around the block would constitute two u-turns. That's what happens when you remove context from the definition.

            • trapper on 10/04/2024 - 07:44
              -1

              @us3rnam3tak3n: Going around the block you will end up facing in the same direct you started haha

              • us3rnam3tak3n on 10/04/2024 - 14:19

                @trapper:

                you will end up facing in the same direct you started

                That's why it would constitute two u-turns by your application of the definition. The key term that differentiates them is "immediately". Going around the block or pulling into and out of a driveway are not u-turns because there are intermediate steps between facing one direction and the opposite.

                I think we agree on the 3-point turn though. If you are changing the direction "so that the driver’s vehicle faces in approximately the opposite direction" and at least part of the vehicle remains on the road it would constitute a u-turn.

          • trapper on 10/04/2024 - 07:42

            @oranglama:

            so if I turn left, right, right, right, that's still considered U turn and illegal in this scenario?

            It's considered a u-turn. Illegal or not depends where you did it.

        • Butt Scratcher on 09/04/2024 - 19:34
          -2

          You are kinda proving yourself wrong…

          That definition just proves that a 3 point turn is not the same as a u-turn

    • us3rnam3tak3n on 09/04/2024 - 16:05

      Once you leave the road it is not considered a u-turn. It is now two separate actions and the laws pertaining to entering a roadway from a driveway come into play.

  • Myone888 on 09/04/2024 - 08:25
    +1

    The video shud be given free. Police are heavy handed in this case and loop sided. They forgot it’s tax payer paying their salaries

  • trapper on 09/04/2024 - 09:04

    I've gone back to the site where the incident occurred and record a video of exactly what I did.

    Share this video and it may clear up some confusion in your original post…

    "pulled into a driveway, turned around and came back onto the main highway"

    Did you nose into the driveway, then reverse out again?

    Or did you drive right up into the drive way and turn around there on someone's property, and come back onto the road forwards?

    • kealii on 09/04/2024 - 17:00

      I pulled up to the left shoulder near the first driveway on the left and did a U-turn.

      • trapper on 10/04/2024 - 07:46
        +5

        Your poor initial post derailed this whole discussion really… better not make these kind of errors in court.

      • BartholemewH on 11/04/2024 - 22:23
        -1

        Then you've done a U turn. I and many others were under the impression you nosed into a driveway and reversed out. That would not be a U turn. You can cross solid lines to pull Into a driveway.

  • Alley Cat on 09/04/2024 - 09:07
    +2

    Gotta fight for the evidence. The burden of proof should not be on you, if the police is the one accusing you. Self-represent. The court should rule in your favour. But I’m not a lawyer and we don’t live in a ‘should’ world. I’d take the chance for $65 if I were you though.

  • Fredfloresjr on 09/04/2024 - 09:30
    -8

    F***** dirty pigs. Everyone doing that who visits PAUL's burger at Sylvania heading back to the opposite lane.

    DO NOT PAY THE FINE. GREEDY COP.

    • creesy on 11/04/2024 - 00:30

      Do cops get a commission or something? How is the officer greedy lol

      • Fredfloresjr on 11/04/2024 - 09:29
        -1

        Seriously, just making it hard for OP to get a footage is the very obvious sign of greediness. The particular cop knows very well that OP did not commit any violation and yes, this is GREEDINESS.

        By the end of the day, COPS be like "hey bro I have 7 infringements finishing the day, boss will be very happy".

  • gth on 09/04/2024 - 09:50
    +12

    The obligation to view the footage is on the person wanting to see it. Waiting for a court date then asking the court to 'force' police to hand you the footage isn't how that works, and will be considered wasting the court's time. Not a good way to start your court appearance.

    The officer has an obligation to show you the footage if you ask (i.e. let you view it on their PC in the station). If you don't follow up that's on you. Call the (correct) station a few times and try make an appointment to view the footage. Cops have weird shifts and it can take a few calls to sort out. The footage might reveal to both of you that in between him seeing someone do a u-turn and taking off to follow them, he's pulled you over instead. If it's obvious on the footage, he'll arrange to withdraw the fine.

    If the police play games and won't make an appointment, attend the correct station in person (and get names of who you speak to). Don't kick up a fuss at the station, because that can also backfire at court. Keep a record of all your attempts so that when it goes to court, you can prove you made every reasonable attempt to view the footage. They may dismiss on the spot, they may adjourn and order them to let you view the footage, or order something else. Magistrates can be unpredictable.

    In terms of the offence itself:
    - did the officer write Crozier on the ticket, or Forest Way? (Forest Way isn't a highway by the way)
    - or did he write both roads in there with the word intersection?
    - for the offence, what is the EXACT wording of the offence as written on the ticket? (it can make a difference when proving stuff)
    - You said you pulled into a driveway, but Streetview only shows a single dirt road/driveway on the left - is this the one you pulled into? Mspaint solves these questions. ;)
    - There's only a brief unbroken centre line before the nursery place, so unless Crozier has been improved since Streetview's 2019 images, there's no unbroken line for you to cross along the side street [trying to anticipate them changing their mind on where you did the offending u-turn].

    Lastly, did you see where the police car was located during the (alleged) offence? Was it parked and waiting near the intersection? On Crozier or Forest Way? Curious how they are going to avoid getting costs awarded if they have footage showing the offence didn't happen.

    PS: If you do go to court, bring your re-enactment video with you but be very clear it's not from the incident itself. The magistrate will appreciate the clarification (good), or they will be pissed that you tried to trick them the video was from the actual offence (bad, even if that wasn't your intention).

    • Hangryuman on 09/04/2024 - 12:35

      yep if constables are unhelpful ask to speak to their boss - the station manager/officer in charge

  • Morphio25 on 09/04/2024 - 11:28
    +8

    Elect to be prosecuted and in court plead not guilty. That will send the matter down the path towards trial. At the hearing make sure to mention to the Magistrate you have a video recording of your interaction with the officer where he mentioned that he has dashcam footage of the incident.

    The prosecutor will then be obliged to give you a copy of that footage (this is called disclosure). If they can't, then with any luck they'll withdraw the charge.

  • CuteWittleCorgi on 09/04/2024 - 12:18

    You should have had your own footage.

  • Hangryuman on 09/04/2024 - 12:34
    +1

    unless you got priors and a bad history, I'd self-represent in court and likely get it thrown out

    whether you can request the cop's 'video evidence' in court would be interesting - certainly if you are able to submit evidence beforehand I'd be putting that upfront - you believe you did not commit the offence, and when you asked the cop to show you he claimed it was 'not convenient' - that looks good in your defence.

  • megaclix on 09/04/2024 - 12:58
    +1

    He said he had footage of it, and I asked to see it, but he said he isn't able to show me on the side of the road. I could tell he was making excuses as when I proclaimed I didn't do a U-turn he said I must have ran a red light when I was turning back onto the highway because I did everything so quick. I video recorded the conversation with him.

    Hopefully you got this interaction on your recording. It would be interesting to know the movements or static location of the police car before they pulled you over.

    If the officer said they 'had footage of it', then that to me implies that the officer also had direct/straight line view of the illegal U-Turn. However, the line 'he said I must have ran a red light when I was turning back onto the highway because I did everything so quick' then shows that the officer did NOT actually see the illegal U-Turn, but made an assumption. I think with some basic questioning, you will be able to validate this, which may help if the police video footage does not eventuate. Pay particular attention to the exact words used by the officer.

    I will guess myself that the officer was out of sight, and did make an assumption based on timing of seeing your car travelling in one direction, and then in the opposite direction some time later. The footage may be able to give you the exact timings.

    The mistaken identity of vehicle mentioned above could also be another angle. If you get access to the footage, it is worth checking if similar vehicles passed the police car.

    Good luck.

  • ripesashimi on 09/04/2024 - 14:59
    +30

    First you need to contest it in court. Very simple mention, takes like 5 min.

    Either pay private lawyer or self-represent. Legal Aid deals with 20-50 matters a day, spending maximum 10 minutes speaking to you. They dont know your case, dont do research and wont remember which street, which direction, what was recorded,…. when the magistrate asks questions.

    First day, you have 3 options. Guilty, not guilty or adjournment.

    Police normally dont give anything until you enter a plea of not guilty. After you enter the plea of not guilty, Court will set matter down for hearing. You must seek evidence service order by a deadline (long before hearing). Police must give you proof before the deadline. If they dont or serve too late, raise it in your next date at court.

    Have a look at the police evidence. Dont ask for more evidence. If they dont serve you their video, GOOD. Compare with your research evidence eg google map photos, dash cam, witness in the car, recording, proof that you were going towards a different destination eg appointment…. and estimate your chance.

    Diarise all your court date including hearing date. Depending on what you do, you may have a bunch of client appointments but had to cancel to attend court. Gather evidence for a cost claim cus you took days off work. Get a letter from employer to subtantiate your figure.

    HEARING DATE

    Print out the fact sheet and a copy of police evidence and highlight all questionable parts. Bring a pen and a highlighter.

    Prepare your version of facts. Keep it REALLY short.

    If police evidence is lackluster (meaning they are inherently inconsistent, one piece cotnradicts the other, or they should have something but dont produce to you), raise it in your hearing. Dont ask them for more.

    On court date, they can only use evidence that they have served to you eg replay the video. If they introduce anything new, claim prejudice that you never had the chance to see. Remember what the police tendered in. Match the printed-out evidence that the police served you to only that + the police officier's statement (this is part of the served evidence, not the fact sheet). Ignore everything else.

    You also tender your materials ie your research to the court. Prepare 3 copies, give the prosecutor a copy (dont give before court, dont let them know you have it before court).

    Police will make their case eg if they dont have video, they will put police officer in the box and ask for testimony. Highlight what they said in the fact sheet and police officer's statement. Those highlighted parts now become their new facts. Ignore everything else on the statement or the fact sheet. Take notes and spot anything inconsistent, anything you can prove wrong and put it to them when you cross examine them.

    Raise frank, direct questions. eg you said you saw me doing U turn, what colour was the car, how fast I was going, was there any car coming from the opposite direction, was the road busy, if so, how did I even do the U-turn to begin with, did you activate the camera, why not, wheres the video.

    They then put u in the box, raise questions to you.
    Tell your version. Keep it REALLY short. Only about what you can prove or remember clearly and frequently refer to your tendered evidence. You have the right to talk as long as you are answering the question. Master the art of while answering the questions you also tell your story which may sound like you are going off track but come back to the question in the end. Skip all unnecessary details (ie details that do not dispute the highlighted part).

    Make sure that you dont run your mouth and incriminate yourself in the process. You can fight the prosecution's version but you cannot fight your own words.

    When you win, make a cost application with the magistrate. Tender your diary and figures. Tell the magistrate your hardship eg too many days off work, employer threatening to lay you off, cancelled client appointment, lawyer fees (while you may self-represent, you might have paid for some one-off legal advice from a bunch of places, you may not keep the receipt, cost may be $200 each). If you win and didnt get at least $1k for your time, delete your ozbargain account.

    Plan B for when you lose. Request a copy for your driving record (should be good) + proof of hardship.Law imposes mandatory punishment but magistrate has discretionary power to reduce (they never use). Ask them to use that power. Basis that the punishment will cause you significant hardship, explain what the hardship is.

    • kealii on 09/04/2024 - 21:14
      +1

      Appreciate the detailed advice. Definitely will come prepared now that I know what look out for!

      • ripesashimi on 10/04/2024 - 09:57
        +1

        Do not move on OP. Fight it for the entertainment of it. How does it feel being framed and just stand there and take it?

        For the process, $65 + 2 days max. 1st day is 5 min max.

        Re the result, worst case scenario you got the fine which is automatic.

        Why did you ask them for the footage? Its their evidence against you, why ask for it? 'Hold on, you may need to find your knife before you stab me, so go grab it lets be prepared alright?' ???? So many times these juniors who are ordered to run around doing errands just toss the camera somewhere esp traffic cops, forgot their existence or the footage gets automatically overwritten by some other shit, lazy extracting the thing, mixing up the files,… Anything can happen to a file. I literally repeat " Do not ask for evidence" twice above. Now that they have it ready for filing, no chance they withdraw the thing.

        Just stop doing silly things.

        • CanadaAye on 11/04/2024 - 17:19

          Surely they asked for it so that it could prove the OPs version of events in which they didn'tdo the u-turn they are accused of. Without a video it becomes wholly he said she said which is a much more difficult case to argue.

      • notewar on 11/04/2024 - 15:36

        Are you able to do live streaming on the hearing date?

        Ill cheer for you on the stream!!!

  • mrvaluepack on 09/04/2024 - 18:09

    Based on your second update, you might be in the wrong. Although still seems like a minor incident to pick up on and the copper was being pedantic or needed to meet his kpi. Maybe you should have pulled into Christmas World parking and turned around from there.

    • kealii on 09/04/2024 - 21:17

      Hmm, don't think that would have changed the situation as I was still booked after turning back onto Forest Way.

  • Bignudge on 09/04/2024 - 18:57
    +5

    Too late now… but PSA for anyone coming past this post. All I have to say is:

    VIOFO 4K 60FPS DASH CAM BACK + FRONT WITH CPL Polarizing Filter…. + 512GB SD CARD + external battery system for recording when parked.

    Fcuk that bullshit low bit rate buffered parking mode. 4K 60FPS ALL THE TIME FULL SEND IT.

    (Imagine this scenario if you had dash cam footage. Cop: "I've got footage". You: "So do I")

    • omgilia on 09/04/2024 - 20:22
      +2

      +1 on this but swap the 512gb SD Card and buy specifically those SD endurance cards that are designed for constant rewriting (dashcam in this case)

      For those that want to hardwire their Viofo dashcam. I've paired it with the BlackVue Power Magic Pro so now I have a switch to turn on to keep recording when I'm out and turn it off when I'm home parked in the garage.

    • billy72 on 10/04/2024 - 21:44

      I have the same setup but the external battery can't last overnight for 4k video :(

  • megaclix on 09/04/2024 - 21:00

    OP, I don't know if you remember. Could a similar car have turned right 20 seconds or so after you, and you arrived back at the lights a few seconds after the other person's car turned right. Was it night time, and the officer was judging things by headlight beams?

    I believe your story and it is a shitty situation to be in. I respect cops in general, but the system doesn't allow that they can sometimes make mistakes (confirmation bias), and the cops get the benefit of any doubt.

    • kealii on 09/04/2024 - 21:15

      Yes this is the scenario I imagined, but I have no way to ever know. It was dusk.
      We were pulled over in a parking lot, and the cop still said "I can't show you the footage on the side of the road." Would have been great to have been able to review it right there and then and be done with it.

    • Harold Halfprice on 09/04/2024 - 22:13
      +1

      the cops get the benefit of any doubt.

      There should be no room for doubt here, because the officer said they have the footage.

      The footage will either show:

      1) OP doing an illegal u-turn
      2) OP doing what he says he did
      3) The officer wasn't able to witness what OP did

  • Harold Halfprice on 09/04/2024 - 22:04
    +2

    Go to the police station and keep asking to see the footage. Call them as well.

    And every time you do, keep a record of it. Write down the time and date. This counts as evidence. Let them keep turning you away with crappy excuses, because that will work in your favour.

    You also have evidence of the officer stating he had footage. If they don't show you the footage, make no effort to do so, and are unable to produce it in court because it's suddenly been "lost" - while you've proven with evidence that you've been persistent in following it up I can't see how the judge can side with the officer.

    It's no longer strictly his word against yours. The officer stated he had footage - so he's either lying and never had it OR he's discarded evidence.

    If your account is true - and the officer is able to produce the footage, then it will either prove that what you're saying is true OR it will prove that the officer wasn't able to witness you doing the U-Turn that he claims you did.

  • rehan770 on 10/04/2024 - 02:50

    I have a concern where there is a bus lane in the city with red signs (hardly noticeable)to say it's a bus zone till 7p.m. in Brisbane but has car park slots (offstreet car park ) however I stopped in the car park behind a blue car assuming it's a car park at 6.15p.m., checked the meter which is just next to the car park which said cannot park here till 7. Removed the car straight away and headed towards Apollo Car Park adjacent as it's one way street.The the customer paid for me as I was there to do a job. Now I have a $300 ticket to pay for a bus lane fine & the lady who was in the apartment hotel room who's job I did is not contactable. My GPS Timeline history shows parking at 2.. M Street but this is the same address for the Bus Zone & the car park. Any help would be appreciated.

  • burningrage on 10/04/2024 - 11:04
    +2

    I think OP needs to contest this. Sounds easy to understand.

    1. OP turned right and drive 100m before doing U-turn
    2. Cops think OP did NOT turn right and performed U-turn instead at the traffic light.
    3. When challenged, cops couldn't prove the video saying OP did u-turn at traffic light.
    4. Cops refuse to provide access to video evidence.

    It's similar to my experience but harder to prove innocence. This one seems more black and white. You either have the evidence he did or it did not happen.

    You should contest this.

  • Widget on 10/04/2024 - 12:02
    -1

    OP, is this where you made the u-turn? https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/269099/111770/uturn.jp…

    • jackspratt on 10/04/2024 - 12:30

      Did you read the OP?

      • Widget on 11/04/2024 - 19:08

        Yeh I did, why? OP said he turned right at the intersection, drove roughly 100m then did a u-turn at the dirt road. I was asking if the picture showed where he did the u-turn.

        • megaclix on 11/04/2024 - 23:18

          No. Your pic is on Forest Way, and that is not were the OP did the U-Turn.

          The OP has stated that they were heading south on Forest Way, and turned right into Crozier Rd. Then approx 100m into Crozier Rd (near the dirt track on the left), pulled a U-Turn (the lines in the middle of the road here are broken lines - so legal). The OP then returned to the set of lights, and did a left to be heading north on Forest Way.

          • jackspratt on 11/04/2024 - 23:21

            @megaclix: Yep - it doesn't seem that complicated if you actually read what he wrote.

            Perhaps comprehension is the issue.

            • Widget on 12/04/2024 - 07:33
              -1

              @jackspratt: Not complicated, an honest mistake.

              Go to bed, kid.

          • Widget on 12/04/2024 - 07:31

            @megaclix:

            Your pic is on Forest Way, and that is not were the OP did the U-Turn.

            Ok, I guess that's why I asked the OP if that's where he made the uturn… OP also stated

            I don't think it changes the situation though as I got the violation for doing a U-turn on Forest Way.

            Hence why I thought he made the uturn 100m down the road on Forest way…

  • whitfords on 10/04/2024 - 12:40
    +1

    TL;DR

    Not sure if the same over there but in WA you are able to extend the deadline for fine payments.

    During this time you are also able to make a freedom of information request to get the footage of the alleged incident (at a cost).

    Once you receive the footage and it shows that he has no evidence of you making the illegal u-turn you could then go to court knowing that there is insufficient evidence and be reimbursed the above fee to obtain the footage.

    I think this assumption is wrong: "The risk is I show up on the court date and the officer says the footage is gone, then it's his word against mine, and to me that means I'll lose.", however I haven't actually taken a fine to court before so don't use my OzB comment in your defence.

    I've been in situations before where I received fines and demerits where I believe the police recordings would clear me of wrongdoing, but I (and many others) just don't have the time or patience to go through the whole process so opted to pay the fine. I may have done differently if the fine/demerits was more severe.

    It's a crap system because the reporting officer does not care about the facts. They're probably hoping you pay it, but are just as happy if you challenge it so they can spend taxpayers money to sit in court for a day only to find out they were wrong and have no repercussions for them.

    • megaclix on 10/04/2024 - 12:47

      From reading threads like this in the past, what seems to happen when the odds are not too favourable on the officers side, is that on the day in court, you get an offer to accept guilt but without punishment.

  • kaleidoscope on 10/04/2024 - 13:02

    Sick of hearing these stories where some cops think they own you because it's their word against yours and the magistrate would favour the officers in charge.

    Fight for it OP and hope you win!
    Good luck!

    Also sick of the false positive automated fines for handling of mobile phones while driving where sometimes even the footage shows it's not a mobile phone but the appeals get rejected… This is madness

  • JuryWheel on 10/04/2024 - 15:22

    Have i missed somewhere where it mentions the amount the fine was…?

  • FlyingMiffy on 10/04/2024 - 16:43

    Was the line double or single continuous? If either, the distance from the lights or the highway off ramp is of no significance

  • Tomcruise on 10/04/2024 - 17:56

    What was the date of the offence?
    Were you handed the penalty on the spot or emailed/posted?
    Have you received your penalty Reminder notice yet? If so, whst is the due dste?

    • Fredfloresjr on 11/04/2024 - 09:32

      Looks like Tom Cruise will pay the fine.

  • coolbzk1 on 11/04/2024 - 09:24

    that is why we need dash camera, not only avoiding troubles from other drivers,but also from police now….

  • gth on 11/04/2024 - 09:53
    +1

    Based on your last update, I'm guessing that you may have performed the Crozier Rd u-turn in front of the police car as they approached, and they've booked you for doing a u-turn unsafely or something similar (hence why I asked earlier what the exact wording of the offence was). If they have you on video doing the u-turn in front of them, then it is probably game over. You might get off on a technicality if the offence on the ticket mentions performing a u-turn at traffic lights.

    If they were parked on Forest Way waiting to pounce on someone doing a u-turn, then you're 100% in the clear. There is no aspect of a u-turn in a side street (provided you were not going over double/unbroken line) that forms an offence back at the traffic lights.

  • keejoonc on 11/04/2024 - 10:55
    -1

    Typical cop behaviour on full display.

  • notewar on 11/04/2024 - 15:27
    +1

    Shits like this reminds me why i should invest in getting a dashcam…

    • Widget on 11/04/2024 - 19:12

      True, I too need one. Now considering getting one that shows cabin too (like uber drivers have). Might come a time when a cop says "no seatbelt" or "touching phone". :/

  • alexdagr8 on 11/04/2024 - 22:05
    +1

    Get a dashcam. They continually record, you can then save the recording after getting pulled over and then prove it next time.
    I’ve been in a situation that wasn’t my fault before. Just pay the fine and move on, the system isn’t setup in a fair enough manner for you to contest a fine.
    It’s your word against a cop’s. You’d pay a court fee and lose money from a day’s worth of work and might still lose + alternatively pay for a lawyer. I’m not a gambling man.
    You might rest on your laurels and in principle you may be right, but the system isn’t skewed in your favour and a gamble is a gamble.
    Pay the fine and move on.
    Get a dashcam

  • BartholemewH on 11/04/2024 - 22:26
    +1

    Your update shows that you initially misrepresented what you did. Pulling left onto the shoulder before turning round in one motion is a U turn as the police stated. If you had turned right over solid lines into a driveway, before reversing back out onto the roadway and driving back the way you came, there would be no case imo.

  • The Value on 11/04/2024 - 23:32

    Why are there OZB'ers without dashcams?

    1. You like saving money
    2. Dashcam deals are posted regularly
    3. Justice is sweet
  • holdenmg on 13/04/2024 - 16:06
    +2

    I'm surprised there was footage by Zapruder in 1963, but none for this in 2024.

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