Is there anything specific you would like to know from me?
[AMA] I'm a Tech Government Worker with 10 Years Experience
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@wheresmyglasses: Lmao believing in the social credit system in 2024 congratulations.
It's funny that it's people in western countries making a fuss about it, but you keep believing what you read on wiki.
Brb also linking wiki in 2024 too funny.@TightAl: Judging by the conviction in your answers and your avatar name here I'll assume you are of Asian descent. Most likely a Chinese citizen or 2nd generation. So I might assume you know far more than I do about Chinese society, their government restrictions and its programs of disinformation and media control.
So I might leave it to that, my friend.
Peace!
My wife works data entry for dept of housing the programs(software) is a complete mess. Do you know how they improve/fix problems because it seems problems are not passed along and they just have to deal with it.
Unfortunately, different agencies are at different stages of tech maturity. And if an agency's sole purpose is not tech, like Housing, things may be very archaic.
How messy it is and what are the main issues from her perspective? Maybe I can comment on some of the points.
Principal Solution Architect is a Clerk Grade 11/12 role. Going by your work details it looks like are working for Department of Customer Service who pays $161k for the role at Max 12. If. It not, which agency are you in that pays $200k base for a non-Senior Service role?
Might be a day rate contractor.
Nope, he talked about redundancy which means not day rate contractor.
Ive asked similar as I'm on half of that where I am. (State Gov - WA)
4 vs 25 direct reports
No role can have 25 direct reports in government. He should have atleast 4-5 people under him and they will have reports; or it could be vendors. It doesn’t affect salary as the number of direct reports are always limited.
About 10 under me, 15 under them…2nd level reports.
All part of my overall project team.@wheresmyglasses: Mate, you need to clarify certain things.
- What is your Grade? Are you in Senior Service? Which cluster/agency?
- If you are not, can you clarify which grade you are in?There is no role which pays more than $170k, for example Grade 9 in Transport cluster which pays one of the highest in Grade 9 @ ~165k Vs most of the other agencies which pay ~$160k for Max Grade12.
- If you have made to Senior Service within 10 years, how has your career progression been? Since there is no promotion, you must switched roles/agencies a number of times. How long have you been in Government and what roles across which agencies did you work in?
25 direct reports for a solution architect seems quite a high number unless working for a big project? Perhaps OP includes all the project team members which not necessarily directly reports to him?
Don't think he's they're necessarily lying.
TfNSW actually have a senior manager grade which isn't considered a senior exec grade which would top out at 200k
As an aspiring developer who's been learning it as a hobby on the side for the past 2 years, what advice would you give to break into the Australian market?
My background is a Bachelor's degree in engineering (not tech), and I've done several personal projects (like Ebay, gmail, twitter, API weather apps etc) using Python(Django), JS, Bootstrap, C#(.NET) [learning it now].
Make things that you'd actually use to solve your, friends and/or family members problems instead of clone coding things like eBay. Having something like that in your portfolio is much more impressive than clone coding existing services, which often are direct copy/adaptation of Youtube/Udemy courses.
When you have something built that people use, it's seen as more valuable because it means you can actually bring a solution to the table, instead of being able to just code. Best of luck!
I like that advice.
Look at establishing a couple of end-to-end projects. Maybe think about which businesses you'd like to work for one day and build something that may solve a Known issue or something you think may optimise a flow or solve a problem space.In my view, the secret is the thinking and the rationale behind the solution rather than just the coding itself.
If you can share a narrative (it doesn't need to be anything super fancy) with a future employer, this is who this piece is for, for this reason: to solve these known problems, etc.
That way, you would stand out against other junior developers for sure.Best of luck, mate!
If there's 1 role and 100 applicants, what happens to the other 99 unsuccessful applicants.
It will depend on how many of those 99 have been interviewed.
If you have been part of the process (interviewed) and failed to secure the role but:
• You did well but not as great as the chosen candidate, so you'll go to a recruitment pool and could be considered next time.
• You did poorly against other interviewed candidates, so that's the end of the line entirely.You are most likely out of luck if you haven't scored an interview due to too many candidates. Your CV will probably be lost in the void, and you should keep looking or applying for the next one.
Thanks for doing this.
Do you think now is a good time for young people or career changers to pursue a job in IT, specifically programming, cloud services or cyber security like is being pushed by govt and universities?
I am not sure about universities; I am not really aware of that sector.
Gov's not hiring as profusely as in a couple of years ago.
It's all to do with the economic recovery both state and federal govs are going through to pay the post-COVID bill.Gov is still a fairly secure job sector; in comparison, there have been many IT redundancies in the private sector lately.
Maybe look towards learning generative AI programming; the demand is huge at the moment.
Definitely, I know at least 2 people changed their career. One was a Senior Nurse in her late 30s, did a course online, and joined my last company as a Developer and she never looked back. One was a friend of our family early 40s, she took 7-8 years off to take care of 2 children, did an online course and now she got an offer as an Cyber Security intern.
My advise, Cloud/Devops probably has lower barrier of entry. Back end programming will never run out of jobs. Cyber security is a niche but under severe shortage right now, so maybe you can score some traineeship/internship.
Right now, it can be a bit hard due to a big layoff in tech industry. Hiring is a bit slower, but i still think it's better than most other industries.
I agree with everything you have said @od810 100%!
Do you need a security clearance to land the job?
As in, do you have any non-citizens colleagues (e.g. permanent residents from other nationalities)?To add to this, do you work with contractors who are not Citizens,
eg. Infosys or Tata Consulting or Tech Mahindra workers ?We had many contractors, and the new government reduced funding throughout, so we had to let go of 90% of them.
The focus over the years has been for agencies to build their internal teams, especially IT. Things have accelerated a lot lately.
You must pass a National Criminal History Check when you get the job.
I had to run a few security clearances over the years when you have to work with sensitive data.Many non-AU are working with me, but I believe they are all citizens.
Many non-AU are working with me, but I believe they are all citizens.
What do you mean by non-AU citizens?
I think OP means they are not born here,
ie. they got the "foreign look" but since the
nature of the work is to work with sensitive data,
then by virtue of the role they would be citizens.
What’s the average day rate for the architect contractors in your area?
It could be anything north of $1200, I reckon.
Haven't hired an architect contractor for a few years.
What exactly is your job title and whats your yearly remuneration?
Thank you
What has your skill progression looked like in the past 10 years?
Midweight Engineer —> Senior Engineer —> Principal Engineer —> Tech Manager —> Group Tech Manager —> Senior Solution Architect —> Principal Solution Architect
I'm the Head of Tech in a private company and have similar exp over the last 10 years. Your messaing is disabled I guess, keen to connect over LI if you're okay.
I always wondered why governments had massive IT issues by design…..
OP's job title and salary of $200K plus has answered that question.
By nature, governments always seem to enjoy maintaining vastly bloated, costly and inefficient bureaucracies
Why would Gov not have similar-sized IT departments as banks, telcos or big energy providers?
It has huge challenges, and different from the private sector, the government serves everyone, every age, cohort, natural disaster, etc.Now, I agree with the inefficiencies unique to Gov., But yet, no major data leaks like Optus, Latitude or Medibank.
by and large new projects are designed and implemented by external consultants. EY and Deloitte generally win most of my agencies IT contracts.
they come up with the design and will hand it off as BAU to teams like the one i'm in. We don't have learning and professional development opportunities (unless its free and online/in our location, there isn't the budget for it) so we only know how to do things the way we always have.
Curious how the title and salary correlate to Govt IT issues? They're paid quite well for a government role, but only alright for private. So if I were to take a stab at your reasoning, it's because govt can't compete with private sector salaries.
Anyway. Government typically doesn't have a large standing project development staff to work on projects, since they're expensive, and they don't usually always have work for them. Consulting firms usually come as a package, delivery and development management, ready to start when you are. The consulting team is usually better paid than if you hired them yourself (permanent) or just as expensive (if you contract directly). If you hire yourself, you're on the hook for building the right team, and to find halfway decent people, you need to pay them contract rates.
The problem is that good application development people are so rare, especially in Australia. If you directly contract with someone, you won't be able to pick the actually good people from the people who are best at selling themselves. And big consulting, they give you the song and dance with their top performance, then send out their graduates for the actual build.
Either way, it's not great. And it comes down to luck. Luck that the business side (govt) team know what they want and are good IT product managers and internal politics don't get in the way. And luck that the consulting team given to you is decently competent.
All the best developers are in product companies as internal devs. The rest are in consulting.
For reference, I'm in consulting but not any of the big consulting firms. I'm paid similarly to OP but in a 'senior dev' level.
Some departments probably have the most complex system out there. There's no reason to not have in house team. I hope that the trend of contracting in gov agencies is going down. I have see enough of Deloitte, EY and many other consultancies. They are sh!t, skills wise and execution wise. Contracting is one of the worst thing in Australian Tech culture. In the US, contractors mostly work mundane, braindead stuff. Anything's related to the core IP must be developed in house.
What role do you see consulting firms having in your line of work in government?
Every now and then the government gets criticised for the spend on these firms - it would be interesting to get your take on when (if?) they are valuable.
I think the days of big consulting firms coming in and owning big projects end-to-end are coming to an end…slowly but surely.
The issue with consultants building big pieces - and when executed well - is who takes over next. Maintainance, iterations, updates, and redesigns are needed within a short timeframe. Consulting firms want unlimited government contracts, which is like throwing public money away.I see good consulting firms doing a lot of the pre-work well. By that, I mean big field research pieces to define the problem space and all major opportunities to identify what areas the government should pay attention to and invest in. I've seen some great work from the big four on setting the right scene, and government internal teams pick from there. That way, internal teams build, iterate, own and maintain software.
Why are were things like the census debacle so terrible? Did the government not put enough money in or did they contract to the wrong people?
Because most of the time, contractors don't work on large scale system. You can't name a large scale system that are built by contractors, because by nature, they are only in for short term. Project like the census would require an in house team, test things incrementally and load test days in and days out. That would be too expensive with contractors :)
That was my next question, would it be in house? So the government cheaped out as usual by the sounds of it??
Personally I feel that it should run by in house team. They should stop treating Gov IT systems as project work as in deliver the project, done and dusted. No it doesn't work like that, you will constantly improve, add new features. Just look at Google & and other big techs and see how their project evolve over time. It is especially true with Gov projects because legislation change constantly. The bank system is probably require less change than the ATO or Centrelink.
Funny thing, contracting out is almost always more expensive than running an in house team. Now running an in house team has it challenge, i.e. recruiting is hard especially you have to compete with private sector that can potentially pay higher.
@od810: Sounds like an in-house team would be the way to go, but this is the government we're talking about and I bet they treat all their jobs like high school projects.
I wouldn't be surprised if the political gametes are giving away the contracts to their big business mates and that's why they're not doing it in house.
I have never worked with the census, but I believe projects like that one, which receives a massive influx of traffic in a short period, are very tricky and complex.
So many instances of big web services have gone down over the years, which is not exclusive to the government.
I think Taylor Swift's gigs recently brought Ticketek down in America.But as @od810 said, you must load test these babies daily if you want to play in the big league.
Ok, so basically the government fell down because they didn't load test properly before every man and his dog jumped online to register for the census?
IBM ran that project, probably they sold to the government their IBM cloud as well. I personally find large consultancies are generally weaker than boutique ones, but they are the ones get all the big contracts.
I really hope the Gov start changing and build more inhouse software team.
@od810: Gee that's pretty rough that someone like IBM couldn't manage that particular job. I'm guessing the larger consultancies are cheaper than the boutique ones if that's the case? Not that a boutique company would be suitable for something like the census??
@scooba: Don't work in IT specifically, but have some experience in procuring project teams in roughly similar circumstances. Can be the case that boutiques don't necessarily have the headcount and/or bandwidth/availability for enormous projects - leading them either to self select out of a process, or get ranked down if they do and a bigger firm comes out stronger on a ranked assessment criteria.
Sometimes they can also afford to be a little selective and nope out of anything that looks poorly scoped or a recipe for reputational damage for them. The consequences are different. A bad contract here or there might mean a big firm gets a terrible rap from a specific work area or division, but they have very broad customer bases and it is somewhat easy to dismiss as an issue specific to that project or project team. A lot of the smaller ones work in more defined niches and have far fewer potential customers - this means the consequence of a bad project (or it becoming known in their target sector) is much more harmful.
@scooba: Sometimes, but I've seen a fair few that seem comfortable with quality over quantity and have this work out for them.
It can be a bit easier for smaller ones do this if overheads are lower cf the bigger firms who seem to have more revenue pressure. "swiping right on everything" can lead to practises eg assigning multiple staff to multiple clients at same time.
@timmypete: Considering how many hacks have happened over the last couple of years, especially in the government sector, I’m not surprised at all by your comments.
The whole process seems very disjointed by the sound it.
In your area of government what is the average tenure for contractors?
I've seen it all. Weeks, Months, Years.
It depends on budget first, the quality of the contractor next and the ability for leadership and going above and beyond last.I work directly with one great contractor (software engineer) who leads his projects, takes initiative, and is not shy to challenge things and stakeholders when he sees opportunities. He's been working with us for five or six years now.
Hi boss
Hey son, how are you?
Tech Government Worker with 10 Years Experience
Translation: the private sector would eat me alive.
The amount of what I'll call "no show" jobs in public sector IT in Australia, where you'll literally be chastised for doing things too quickly, generating too much work for colleagues or having any sense of drive/ambition/dedication is just utterly unfathomable.
Most of these jobs are quite literally the textbook definition of a "Bullsh*t Job" as per David Graebar's book.
You could do a mass-culling of public sector IT jobs and replace a good amount of them with some PowerShell scripts and automation tools.
I worked for the private sector for 15 years before my first Gov position. Joining the public sector was a choice, one I don't regret. I work with amazing people (also some not so amazing, but aren't all workplace-like that) and we have done incredible work I'm really proud of.
I do present our work on certain forums every once in a while and I get a great response from large organisations out there.
Your characterisation of the public sector is short-sighted and reflects more on your own insecurities and lack of achievements than on its reality.
I'm sure you pay taxes neatly with the ATO portal and have been paid accordingly when COVID hit either by being a citizen or a business owner.
Gov's not perfect but you benefit from its innovations every single day.
But what do I know right, it's so much easier to be a contrarian troll with a faceless profile.
Keep it up champ!
XD
Lol, did I hit a nerve or are you just particularly sensitive because most of this thread couldn't give a f**k about your completely unremarkable and pointless public sector role?
Yes, I single-handedly invented this perception of public sector workers as being lazy, incompetent, unqualified and overpaid parasites.
It's definitely not an opinion I've formed from over 10 years of working in both private and public sector IT and from every single person I've ever known who's worked in public sector IT and the endless parade of horror stories I've both personally been witness to and heard through industry colleagues.
I'm sure you pay taxes neatly with the ATO portal and have been paid accordingly when COVID hit either by being a citizen or a business owner.
Cute assumption but you're wrong on both fronts. I have an accountant I've used for many years and I didn't take any Jobkeeper/Jobseeker payments during Covid so with regards to those points, I don't actually owe them sh*t.
Gov's not perfect but you benefit from its innovations every single day.
LOL.
The indoctrination is strong with this one. If by "benefit" you mean more taxes, laws and punitive oppression of the working class, then yeah, we all "benefit" from this petty bureaucracy, that's made possible by the worker drones like yourself who keep its machinery running.
How are the interest rates, housing prices and general cost of living doing by the way? Or are you as completely out of touch with reality as the figureheads you work for?
But what do I know right, it's so much easier to be a contrarian troll with a faceless profile.
Contrarian would imply that I'm suggesting something that's not a commonly-held belief, i.e. that public sector/government workers are useless. Which is a well understood concept at every strata of society. But I understand this bullsh*t job forms a deeply-cherished part of your fragile identity that you can't really bare to face with an objective lens so you need to engage in a lot of cognitive dissonance to convince yourself otherwise.
And you're definitely putting it all on the line by making an AMA post on OzBargain with your own faceless profile and refusing to even mention which state government you work for. What a hero.
Do you want your Pulitzer Prize now or later? You really do live up to the public sector stereotype, I must say.
what do you spend your money on?
My 3 biggest expenses are:
1. Mortgage
2. Groceries
3. My many visits to Bunnings to get one little thing but I come back with a boot full of stuff that I really really need!
Which state government do you work for?
Are you complying with your agency's social media policy in posting here? Curious as many are very restrictive and part of the employment contract.
From your responses, I don't doubt your position and experience. That likely means you've taken precautions to protect your identity.
I appreciate your understanding of some of the limitations of my responses. Your comment cuts right through why I keep things fairly de-identified.
The idea here is the support, help and answer our community questions. I feel so privileged I wanted to give some back.
whn CBDC will be released ? Details of it? If it wont land you in hot water.
Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to say.
Doing a really quick research it seems like the RBA is nowhere near a concept at all…it's a real shame because the idea is amazing.Follow-up quiz: Did they do anything to ensure/safeguard ( yes I know there'll be always bugs in app ) what happened in Robodebt scheme won't happen again?
Why are gov websites so confusing? If I search for form xyz123, I'll find a page that tells me how to use form xyz123, where to submit form xyz123, alternatives to form xyz123, but I'll never find the form xyz123. I have to go to a search engine to find the DL page.
2 things, in my view.
1 - too many stakeholders force teams' hands into adding more content, changing a website structure or prioritising their bits. Creating the Frankensteins you described above.
2 - teams not running user validation. User research and concept validation are not as common as they should be in Gov. Verifying a concept, website or flow with users is the only way to understand whether your idea is worth pursuing or if your website/system is user-friendly and truly solves the problems it was meant to.
Why are gov websites so confusing?
To hide the trail of corruption, malfeasance (or incompetence if one is feeling generous), & in order to provide plausible deniability.
That's why they spend millions post elections to rename, combine, close or archive departments.
What are your thoughts on Digital ID ?
In order to implement a global surveillance/monitoring state, this is a necessity. The infrastructure needs to be in place too, which is being rolled out globally at the moment. It will also open up vast financial markets & trading in human behaviour & natural assets. It's all about data.
This is one use of a digital id:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ginaclarke/2018/07/25/world-fir…Hey, @whyisave, good question.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with @mrdean assessment above wholeheartedly.Let me start with the final outcome or dream.
Imagine a digital world where you can create your Digital ID, detached from any org like Meta or Microsoft. You own that data fully and only disclose what you want when you want it. Say an advertiser wants to use your data to sell you a product—they must ask your permission first. You are in complete control and can monetise your own ID or use it for many other purposes if you choose to.The Internet has had many advancements, but one it has never been able to enable is a truly ubiquitous identity layer.
What I mean is that many services and providers online collect and manage your personal data and, by doing that, create a form of digital ID.
The problem is that you can't use one ID across the entire Internet.Google comes probably the closest; you can use your Google account auth details to 'log in' or enable 3rd party services. The issue is that Google still owns and manages your personal data, and you will always be bound by its policies and procedures. What happens the day Google is no more? What happens if Google blocks you from its data? Your Google ID would probably disappear or become inaccessible ultimately.
Only a few countries worldwide have managed to tackle a portion of that problem. A few separate protocols have been created, and a worldwide consortium was established to develop consistency. I understand Australia is now pursuing its second generation of Digital ID. It's not easy for a big country like this one as the issue becomes very political, and a few parts of the community (especially the tin foil hat megaphone warriors) become very vocal about (sometimes justifiably) the erosion of privacy.
Australia is not a dictatorship or an autocratic society. Therefore, I don't fear or subscribe to the theory of mass surveillance, which is most likely a scenario for countries like China, North Korea, Russia or Iran.
What I think the government is ultimately trying to do in AU is reduce the cost of services by allowing more people to access them online, and a vital aspect of that is the introduction of a Digital ID. Web3 and decentralisation of data (everything sits in one's wallet) are the top-tier tech enablers of tamper-proof ID systems, but that seems a bit far off from our current reality.
The way I see it, Digital ID is not a matter of how but when. It's definitely coming!
The problem is that you can't use one ID across the entire Internet.
I don't see that as a problem.
All that description about "identity" being a problem,
sounds like someone selling me the idea of toll roads
or even how PPP (Public-Private Partnerships) is a great model.Australia is not a dictatorship or an autocratic society.
If private companies can bypass a country's sovereignty
and able to influence the citizenry and the parliament,
then, a country which is not a "dictatorship" or "autocratic" is a big bonus.Those "dictatorships" or "autocracies" actually resist parasitic powers that go into a country,
and take all the value out of the land and the people, and then sell it back to them.So, it's a double loss and creates a country in servitude to their demands,
and in tandem, the media (which is privately owned too), shapes the people's minds.PS:
Question: What are your thoughts on Digital ID ?I only saw 10% of your reply, as really "your thoughts"
and 90% were more of a non-reply, but anyway,
I get the context and your sentiments around it.Besides, the reply before yours, already set the tone for your reply.
In my experience @whyisave, when someone wants to use their own biases to see a particular side of an issue, the outcome will always be that.
I try to analyse a topic from a multi-angle perspective and with the data I have available to me.I concluded a while back that it's much easier to look at everything from a negative angle and see what can go wrong than to discuss ideas and find solutions to big problems.
@wheresmyglasses: I don't know who negged you, but it wasn't me.
Check the recent Press Club speech by Varoufakis,
to get further insights about how a country sovereignty
can be and/or being being bypassed.
I can tell you fraudulent activities will be much more colourful, most of organisations cannot deal with digital ID yet. ID verification is outsourced to third parties which specialised in this, but even then fraudsters are very creative. I deal with this on day to day basis so I know fairly well. On the other side it's probably inevitable that Digital ID will be the standard of the future.
@od810: I'd like to have a beer with you @od810.
You seem like a great dude - very knowledgeable and fair with your assessments.@wheresmyglasses: We probably have to do a virtual beer, i'm based in Vic lol. I might DM you my linkedin
What I think the government is ultimately trying to do in AU is reduce the cost of services by allowing more people to access them online,
Governments always need rationalisations & carrots in order to implement anything. In this case, convenience, "access" to services, & reducing costs are touted as reasons why it is necessary. On the other hand, there is much motive which the public is not aware of, one of which is the making of enormous profits for 3rd party providers.
If the cost reduction rationalisations were true, then the citizenry would have access to much cheaper energy, but that is definitely not the case. Privatization across all industries was touted as a way of introducing "competition" & lessening the cost burden on consumers, but the opposite is the reality. Which was by design. Privatization of commonwealth employment services was touted as lessening costs, but all it did was make certain businesspeople even wealthier & fleecing the taxpayer & providing a poorer level of services. Again, by design. All it has done is tightened the grip of corporations & supra-national organizations in all western countries.This digitalid push is similar, but the difference is everyone will be locked into it. They argued in parliament it won't be "mandatory" but that is just rubbish. Like the "jabs" weren't "mandatory". There was a "choice", but you had to bear the consequences of not being a good little citizen. Naughty naughty. Just like that, digitalids will hurt most those who do not conform.
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A guy in state government can also read books and follow the news - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System