My new oil of choice now gets delivered to my door for free.
Not an all time low but very close ($78.26), and much cheaper than competing UHP oils. Superior start-up protection while maintaining higher viscosity at high temperatures for UHP applications.
CamelCamelCamel.
This oil is far superior to 5w-30 in both hot and cold performance, and so carries a premium. It's mainly reserved for high performance engines.
Rightio. Thanks for the explanation.
Why is it superior?
Because Jo Ko owns shares in the company.
It has faster flow at cold temperatures, yet maintains a stronger oil film at higher temperatures.
This is a Group IV synthetic, made from gas base stock, reacted together to increase until the desired oil chain length.
The cheaper Group III 5w-30 synthetic is a mineral oil, but hydrocracked down to the desired chain length.
Essentially, this expensive one is what true synthetics were many years ago and have very good stability. The cheap Group III came about because of a court case where the term "synthetic" was allowed to be used on mineral oils as long as they were processed in a way to make it different from the starting form. Group III still protects very well, but they tend to break down after a long while.
In the end, frequent oil changes with a cheap oil (every 6 months/7,000km) is still better than infrequent changes with an expensive oil (every 12 months/20,000km), unless the driving conditions or engine put such a strain on the oil that you need a Group IV synthetic (like those Ferrari engines that use Shell Helix Ultra X)
Not for Castrol 0w-40 - typically the RRP is closer to $100. Occasionally goes on sale cheaper than this, but not in a while.
This is also the recommended spec oil for my car (XR5 Turbo) and can see some unfortunate outcomes using inferior oils over the long term.
Hey XR5 brother!
I usually use 5W-35 in mine since I bought it 9 years ago and it has never missed a beat, the majority of the XR5 owners also use 5W-35 too.
If the turbo is oil cooled, the 0w-40 is more stable under that heat compared to the 5w-30. Your engine won't miss a beat, but the turbo might after a while, I think more than 12 years.
Most of the people in the enthusiast groups (i.e the old xr5turbo forums, the newer facebook groups) definitely go for 0w-40 - there are a number of experts in there that specialise and/or have workshops dedicated to these cars which have seen issues with big end bearings etc further down the track using oils not up to spec. Has been a really useful place to find all sorts of information, even if the people in there can be a bit snarky sometimes!
@NedStark102: Interesting take, I might have to start using 0W-40 if that is the case. I mean I am planning to sell the car as it's too small for me now and need something bigger but such a nice car.
Regardless of premium, just use the oil specified in your manufacturer manual. The engine would be designed specifically for that.
Some manuals state a range of oils also which implies that there is very little practical difference between them.
Similar to engines that are designed for 'premium' fuel vs E10 etc. Need to go with what the engineers designed the machine to work with.
Not every engine is stock/unmodified. Just bear that in mind. Modifications can change what oil is recommended.
The all time low on Camelx3 is incorrect. I bought twice from Amazon Au in the past 2 years, paid $55.64 Nov 2022 and $61.78 June 2023. The discount price during promotion is increasing but still ~80 is not great. Also I bought from Sparebox eBay for ~$66 after a discount code at the time.
My past post a while ago: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/679363
Yep, i'm pretty sure i've bought it on ebay before too for cheaper, but times have changed. Will update description. Still a good price considering what Automotive SS wants for it right now. $132.95! What a joke. Also great compared to prices of other 0w-40's currently. I'm curious, what car do you run this in?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/152364756177
It’s $77.15 delivered from Sparebox ebay with coupon code FEB15
I use the Penrite 10Tenths and it’s comparable to this price when on special too. Around $70-75 for 5L
Wonder if this one is also e85 compatible.
I've heard mixed reviews about 10Tenths. How has your experience been? and in what car?
Tip from a car nerd with an obsession on oil formulation: Never ask this question.
You'll get hung up on 'feelings' and pseudoscience, and it's all total crap, nobody can tell you whats happening by feel unless its physically broken something, or is making so much noise it's already warning you.
If you're going to ask someone about their use of an oil, always ask if they have a UOA (Used Oil Analysis) you can read.
If they don't, they're truly guessing.
As for 10Tenths itself; There are 2 lines, 'racing' and 'premium'.
Racing is formulated with about 10~20% less Calcium than premium; this is a cleaning agent, and since a typical race oil would be in a vehicle for hours, perhaps days, never weeks, 'cleaning' is much less important (Having some is still helpful, to prevent deposits forming).
You'll also notice the 'Racing' forumula also has a much lower TBN, because once again, It doesn't matter if it gets acidic, it's not going to be in there for long.
The 'Premium' line is still a pure Group IV/V mix (with the calcium added back, and a very high TBN), Plus the advantage of no/few long chain parafins used to make it a multigrade; this means it's nearly impossible (or at least, worlds slower) to shear. If you need that advantage, then go for it.
It's currently still hot enough that I'm more interested in keeping my Cold and Hot API ratings as close to each other as possible, since oil shearing is a much larger concern in Australian climates. You'll actually see this written in most manuals; where the "5w20" recommended on lots of oil caps these days, can be replaced with anything, all the way up to "20w50" in temeratures above 5c. In fact often the 20 weight or 30 weight API recommendations top out at 40c (as a max ambient temperature) and we Aussies sometimes hit that; So your oil cap might be outright wrong in summer anyway.
Always refer to your manual, but don't be shocked if it tells you your expensive thin oils are just as acceptable as the thick stuff you used to put in the falcon. It's not uncommon.
While my cars are rated for a 5W30, and I use that weight in Winter (for the better cold flow rates), my UOA's come back with almost half the wear metals using a 15W40 during our summer months. (both K series, and EJ series engines).
Despite my love of oils, the truth for most people who don't track their car often, if at all (or Tow) is:
cheap oil, changed often, is worlds better than expensive oil changed rarely.
You spend some serious time on bobistheoilguy.com, and it shows!
Hard agree on this one: "cheap oil, changed often, is worlds better than expensive oil changed rarely". It's 5000km for me.
Yeah when I ask for an 'experience' what im really after is comments on cold start smoothness, consumption and post change consistency. I stay well clear of forum arguments from oil fanboys, especially when there are no UOA's to be seen.
Out of interest, are both your K series and EJ's turbocharged? I know NA engines with higher compression ratios prefer an overall heavier weight in the long run, but lower comp turbo engines can benefit more from the improved cold flow of a more dynamic oil.
@Jo Ko: Gotta be careful on BITOG, there's only a handful of members who actually know anything anymore.
Basically trust Molekule, and ignore everyone else :p Just use their lab data and learn learn learn.
That 5000km rule, is actually a 'mistranslation' of a rule of thumb that started in the USA (5000miles), which is 8000kms.
This was the 'middle' interval originally suggested by ford;
"According to the type of oil your car uses, you should change it every 3,000, 5,000, or 6,000 miles"
Thats: Mineral, Semi Syn, Full Syn - Before Group3 was allowed to be called full…
At 5000kms, your UOA's will no doubt be coming back with near zero shearing and high TBN still.
You're VERY likely throwing away oil with safely more than another 50% of it's life to go.
7500kms is perfectly safe; I'm confident your UOA's are saying the same thing unless you're using group2 oil from the 'tools' section of Coles :P
Consumption hardly changes with our temperatures; usually a leak just got worse (or clotted) between oil changes and people try to correlate it.
And I'm in QLD, so we don't really see cold starts. We might get one or two days a year where its below 5c.
Yes, it's a cold start as far as the physical engine is concerned (so no high revvs, because clearances are still 'wrong') but even with the tiiiight factory clerances of an EJ (roughly 1.2~1.7thou rod bearings!) we're talking a MECHANICAL cog based pump, often with a 70psi+ bypass valve, needing less than 20psi idling.
Even a 'heavy' oil isn't going to be able to resist that pumping force at temperatures as warm as 5c.
Yep, it might get there a little quicker if thinner, just in case that bypass valve does crack open, but without perspex blocks to watch, we have to apply some common sense here.
Will I choose to run a 20W50 in a 5W20 engine? (without a UOA) No - But in summer in QLD, I'd not worry for a second putting 10W40 in there.
If you car is old enough to use a rotary pump (Rebuilt a 1967 P76 engine recently) you'll see a difference though!
20W60 down to 15W50 was the difference between beercan-down-steps pushrod noise, and sewingmachine pushrod noise.
The EJ is turbo, the 3x K's are currently not, but one is in the process of becoming so.
It's being built as a response car with a deliberately small turbo, with very low wastegate only boost (GT2876, 5-8psi non-intercooled) so I should see spool somewhere around 2500rpm.
You'd think turbos would love thin oil, with all the restrictors and such going on in there, but even ball bearing turbos with their 0.5mm restrictor is 19thou. If it's reaching the 1.7thou engine bearings, it's certainly reaching the turbo ones. Once again, worry more about stability and TBN, because that boy is hot!
We're tropical. Hot and Humid. We really need to worry about shear and TBN above all else in almost all circumstances.
But, unless you are a car nerd, I'll repeat in TLDR fashion:
Stay within your manuals specs if you HAVE TO wander, don't do it by more than 1 'step'/grade.
Modern VVTI engines use oil pressure to adjust a lot of things, so unless you KNOW your clearances, stay with the manuals recommendations.
However! Don't assume what's "on the cap" is whats correct in our climate, check the manuals table :)
@MasterScythe: Molekule, noted.
5000km has nothing to due with any rule of thumb for me, and everything to do with running 28 psi boost for 560 Nm wheel torque (which also explains my consumption). Tuner recommends 3x manufacturer interval (which is 15,000km). It's pennies for peace of mind.
I have 1 or 2 hyrdo lifters that are a little worn and so back-drain when parked. Dropping from 5w to 0w took a full 30-40 seconds off the adjustment time on a cold start. The whole top end just sounds so much happier.
3x K's! What a garage! I wish you good luck for the build, and may the haltech deities be ever on your side.
@Jo Ko: Its all kpro.
I love haltech, but kpro is just set and forget.
Haltech is now too, but before the 'elite' series… It was not. Lol.
And yeah thats fair, custom builds have custom rules, and you have the measurements to justify it; nobodys gonna argue with that.
Id still get UOAs often though, tuners are usually good math heads, not chemists. He's also guessing (though, educated guessing).
I could easily be wrong since its built. But id still gamble on 'significant oil life left'
Mates ej25 running 25psi on a gt30 (dont ask how many driveshafts we've been through) handles 7500kms fine. But we had to go Nulon, because something in penrite hates e85 contamination. Water thin after a week.
@MasterScythe: There are a few local places that do UOA testing, and some online options as well. Do you have any hard and fast recommendations? Granted you are in a different state, so have you tried any postal services that are worth mentioning? or just find a store?
@Jo Ko: https://www.nulon.com.au/diy-resources/engine-oil-testing
Not cheap, but if there's nobody nearby, they're a reliable option
@Jo Ko: Yeh I have done a 5000kms oil change since I bought my car over 9 years ago. And I use 5W-30 instead of the recommended 0W-40. It's a lot cheaper but I think i might just use the recommended from now on.
@itsmoe: Going to a lighter grade oil like you have in our climate is not usually a wise move.
Try Penrite HPR5.
@MasterScythe: I have a mechanic friend of mine with over 10 years of work experience on Euro cars who told me 0W-40 or 5W-40 are too thick. -____-
@itsmoe: We're typically a hotter climate than Europe.
10 years?
How many years did the engineer who designed the engine tolerances and specified the oils have?
Is it a well documented error? Has the dealership issued any sort of statement to correct their error?
Engineers aren't faultless, the 20weight in BRZ\86 engines being too thin and spinning bearings in bulk is proof anyone can make mistakes; but this 'mechanic' had better have some amazing pedigrees in custom engine work to trust someone recomending a thinner oil when moving a car to a hotter climate than where it was designed… I'd want to see his wear numbers in writing to show it's not guesswork.
BITOG people, check in!
@DV0993: LOL, someone is pretty unhappy that we're here apparently.
Look at the overactive negging of friendly discussion abvove!
@MasterScythe: What madness. Agree with your general premise that thicker is better.
Im moving to 5w50 in my LS430 soon!
@DV0993: I know, it's bizarre. Appreciate you 'fixing' that for me, genuinely :)
Unless you're seeing cold start pressure issues, taking the Winter rating that far away from the Hot API rating means a LOT of long chain polymers (meaning high risk of shearing the oil thinner).
Is that the 3UZ-FE?
If so, considering how broad of a viscoscity selection the manual allows, I'd be looking into something that's at least a 10Winter rating, if not 15W.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachments/ls-3rd-gen-2001…
It's within spec.
Darn long polymers; even when it's 'synthetic' there's a reason that Castrol 10W60 tests at a heavy30/light40 weight after only 2500kms (you'll find UOA's of that everywhere, lol).
But hey, thats why this obsession is fun!
If your UOA ends up showing it's not shearing a 5W50, then we (well, I) learn that it's suitable for that engine :)
@MasterScythe: Theres a huge camp on the forums that swear by 5w30 - I'm mostly running 10w40 in it at the moment - and have some amsoil 5w50 and mobil 5w50 on hand.
Im aware they are probably loaded with VIs and that a 10/15w is probably "better" but it probably won't make a material difference 😅
And yes, its the bulletproof 3uz-fe - it will probably do a million ks on canola oil ;)
10Tenths is the only oil where when I poured out the 5w-40, it felt more like a 10w-60! Was super thick for some reason, I'm hoping I got a bad batch. I ended up mixing it with Edge 5w-30 to thin it back down for my engine which was spec'd for 0w-30 to 5w-40.
I've found it fine but it gets changed every 6-9 months but it travels less than 5000km in that time. I started using it because I knew it was stated to be e85 compatible. I'm driving an 86 with an EFR 6758 on it. Factory asks for 0w20 but I'm running the 5w30 as it get warm even with the oil cooler, especially around this time of the year.
@MasterScythe, where do you get your oil analysis done? Been meaning to get one done but always forget to organise it before the next service and then it because a later job and then the cycle continues.
I know a guy at Lubetech at Coopers Plains.
They normally deal with businesses, but they might do personal ones too; worth a call.
Otherwise all the big oil guys do it, Castrol, Nulton etc all have kits.
It's VW 502 00/ 505 00
But a lot of tuned EA113 engines use a 0w-40 oil to protect lifters and reduce oil consumption.
Free delivery?
Free C&C, $9 Delivery for me. But I have a Supercheap 5 min drive.
If you have a Supercheap trade account, probably get another 10% off.
I don't recall the precise price; but I picked this up a few of these last year during Prime Day for circa high $50s low $60s. Haven't used yet, but understand its neck and neck with Mobil 1 0w40.
This seems expensive for 5L isn't it? I usually buy 5W-30 for $45 on sale unless 0W carries a premium.