Hybrid Vs Petrol Cost in The Long Run

yummypinacolada on 04/02/2024 - 20:00

Looking for advice as I'm clueless about cars. I don't have a preference in a car; I just need something basic that will get me from point A to point B. So, my ideal car is one that will save me money. I'm considering getting a Toyota hybrid, which has been recommended to me the most. However, the cost of a basic hybrid car compared to other basic petrol cars is about a $10,000 difference. For example, if I'm looking to get a Corolla or Corolla Cross, which costs around $40,000, I could get a Mitsubishi ASX or Hyundai I30 for around $30,000. I know I'm not comparing within the same model, but I've heard all of these cars I mentioned are pretty reliable.

I also think that I won't be driving a lot, probably around 12,000 kilometers a year, and the insurance for hybrid cars is also a little bit more expensive. With that said, am I going to be saving money in the long run (say for the next 7 years) if I buy a hybrid, or would sticking to petrol do better for my scenario?

Automotive

Comments

    • Poor Ass on 06/02/2024 - 01:09

      lol have you ever been in one?

      It's like driving a washing machine

  • loropy9 on 04/02/2024 - 22:50

    Don't forget that around 7-8 years down the road you'll need to replace the hybrid battery if you want to continue to have the same good fuel economy as when new.
    So factor in another ~$4K before the 10year mark for the hybrid. Plus the extra cost for the insurance. I'd say petrol and hybrid would break even over the life of the vehicle. Hybrids drive a bit better though. A bit faster at the traffic lights etc.
    I doubt that Big Oil will push for much higher petrol prices in the long run. They know that this would be an extra incentive for the drivers to switch to EV. If anything, they might keep it reasonable in the coming years to counter the EV growth.

    • spackbace on 05/02/2024 - 01:58
      +8

      Don't forget that around 7-8 years down the road you'll need to replace the hybrid battery if you want to continue to have the same good fuel economy as when new.

      Nope…

      Besides, Toyota warrant the hybrid battery for 10yrs, have done since 2019

      • Antikythera on 05/02/2024 - 23:26

        imagine when battery tech gets good enough that they last 20-30 years.

        you don't buy a whole new car just an upgraded shell, with the new style, updated interior tech and possibly replacement motors, and keep the same battery.

        or you have one chassis with both a SUV shell and a sportscar shell.

      • loropy9 on 06/02/2024 - 18:04
        +3

        This came from an owner of a large taxi fleet. Might be depending on the kms, but he said that after a while his Camry hybrids started running like petrol cars and using fuel similar to petrol cars so he had to start replacing the batteries.
        Toyota warrants the battery against defects. I doubt they'd replace an 8 year old battery because of any age wear related loss of capacity.

  • sammo on 05/02/2024 - 08:43

    Does it need to be a new car? Plenty of runabouts for sale for under 10k. Just pay for an RACV inspection or similar.

    • yummypinacolada on 05/02/2024 - 21:50

      Unfortunately, price of used cars in Sydney are very high now, make it not worth the risk to me. I always buy used cars previously, but at the current market price for used cars I'd rather buy a new ones. FYI, my previous 2009 Honda Jazz I bought for $5k in 2016. Then I recently found an ad of 2008 Honda Jazz (with similar mileage as when I bought my previous car) was currently advertised for $7k in 2023. I would've thought as the car gets olders it should be cheaper, but that was not the case since Covid.

      • Hangryuman on 06/02/2024 - 16:26
        +1

        '2008 Honda Jazz (with similar mileage as when I bought my previous car) was currently advertised for $7k in 2023. I would've thought as the car gets olders it should be cheaper, but that was not the case since Covid'

        a cheap used car like this will still be your best deal for the foreseeable - the Jazz was highly recommended to me by car expert friends as the most adaptable seating/luggage carrying and the best around town (a bit twitchy at highway speeds apparently)

        I sold my 1991 Honda Civic that I bought for $5K in 2003 and sold for $2K in 2022 (prolly coulda got a lot more for rarity value - but it had an oil leak and ugly parking crash damage) - I think I estimated my lifetime costs at $42K (including the $5K purchase) over 19 years or average $2200 per year.

        Most new cars I've seen rated by NRMA and such come in with the cheapest costing $5Kpa and expensive multiples of that.

        So I'm saying the TCO/cost of a new hybrid is likely to be significantly more than a good used small petrol car - especially if you don't drive it much like I didn't - my average over 19 years was 2900km/year costing $43 per week or 75c/km - I probably could have saved money by using carshare like GoGet especially as there are about 5 such within a block or two of my home. And I now rent out my inner city car space for $50pw so that adds to the 'not needing a car' sweetness in my retirement …

  • sprocketoctopus on 05/02/2024 - 09:22
    +3

    My significant other drives a Hybrid Camry for work - exclusively on country trips.

    The fuel economy on the open road is worse than around town, as the ICE is propelling you for the most part.

    So if your 12k mileage is country driving, it may not make sense, but if it's urban, it might well do.

    Just something else to consider.

    • JIMB0 on 05/02/2024 - 17:56

      That's because the power required to push the car through the air increases exponentially with speed. Around town a normal car wastes a lot of energy running the engine in an inefficient manner, while a hybrid doesn't. This advantage diminishes at a constant speed, if the normal car has a CVT or 6+ speed gearbox it may even be more efficient.

      • Euphemistic on 05/02/2024 - 20:01
        +5

        It also due to much less engine braking on the highway so theres less regen to provide forward motion.

      • Hangryuman on 06/02/2024 - 16:31

        'a CVT or 6+ speed gearbox it may even be more efficient.'

        Scotty on YouTube reckons CVTs are a nightmare expense to repair or replace - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSZ5-ifYQho

    • brad1-8tsi on 04/03/2024 - 21:21

      I used to get a Camry Hybrid pool car for country trips.
      A fairly consistent 5.5l/100km which was pretty good considering I wasn't trying to get good economy.

      My 1.8tsi manual Octavia used to get just under 7l/100km in similar conditions.

      I had access to two Camry. One was really nice to drive and the transition from regenerative braking to traditional brakes was seamless. The other was a shocker. There was like a dead zone in the transition It also handled worse. Go figure.

  • hsbc on 05/02/2024 - 09:52
    -3

    Buy a Tesla model Y, you will save a lot and it's best car.

  • dan2k on 05/02/2024 - 11:00

    has anyone here had to replace a battery in a hybrid car? (or know someone who did?) how log does the battery last (ie still effective for capturing braking energy and using it to accelerate again) and what does it cost to replace?

    • rambutann on 05/02/2024 - 11:04
      +1

      I've got a Lexus CT200H, no sign that its even remotely close to needing a new battery. I believe its about $2k.

    • nikey2k27 on 05/02/2024 - 22:56
      +3

      see taxi in Townsville with 600,000km to 1.2million km on same battery start one go before any think else

  • Karfaffel on 05/02/2024 - 12:28
    +1

    I think a second hand hybrid could work out well if you get a good deal. I just bought a 2012 Camry Hybrid. It was only around $2000 more than the same non-hybrid model. It had quite low kms and had the battery replaced 18 months ago. The batteries do seem to last around 10 years, so that's something to keep in mind when purchasing an older model. It drives really nicely and the fuel efficiency is great.
    Total cost (with labour) of replacing the battery (done by previous owner) was $3450
    With Toyota reliability, I feel I'm going to get good value out of this car.

    • Poor Ass on 06/02/2024 - 01:12

      How many KMs when the battery was replaced?

      • Karfaffel on 06/02/2024 - 09:44

        96000kms

        • Poor Ass on 06/02/2024 - 09:56
          +1

          would you happen to know if the battery was like some genuine Toyota branded battery or just generic one?

  • alexwar on 05/02/2024 - 12:36
    +2

    Take into consideration:

    1) Hybrid fuel efficiency is in the city driving, not on open roads. So yes 12K KM per year city driving will take 10 years to repay the $10K Premium.If you are doing Open Road there is no difference in consumption.
    2) There is new legislation that has been announced where we will have a type of carbon tax for car importers, meaning they need to achieve a target CO2 reduction in average if they don't it will cost them more (penalty). One of the considerations will reduce the gap between EV/PHEV and Petrol/Diesel, and companies may shift the price to EV/PHEV/hybrid from diesel/Petrol to avoid paying the carbon offset. In Summary, wait if you can, the $10K Gap you see will decrease.

    You have the info, just make the decision and good luck on your purchase

    • ytthr on 06/02/2024 - 12:21
      -1

      "Hybrid fuel efficiency is in the city driving" - not true, I get under 5.5 l/100 on my rav4 hybrid on the highway doing a bit over 100km/h, on downhills the motor can turn off, and the batteries charge when they can. You should take one for a drive on the highway.

      • Euphemistic on 06/02/2024 - 14:10
        +1

        How does a non hybrid compare on the highway? Wouldnt be surprised if its very close to 5.5 at 100.

        The biggest benefit for hybrids is in stop start traffic. They generate power when slowing, then pump it back in when you take off again. Plus, theyll switch off when you stop and take off on ele tric power to save petrol. When you are on the highway there's less stop start, so they rely on petrol power more.

        • Hangryuman on 06/02/2024 - 16:37

          'The biggest benefit for hybrids is in stop start traffic.'

          yes - for me in taxis (since 99% of Sydney taxis seem to be Toyota Camry Hybrids) the biggest benefit is quiet and still - no vibration - when stopped

          I took an Uber ?Black/?Green to Sydney Airport in a fancy upmarket car (European?) and asked the driver how he felt - he said the diesel engine vibration was tiring sitting in the car all day, and he couldn't wait to get a hybrid.

          that said - the last Uber we got from Sydney Airport turned out to be a Tesla - and the suspension was kinda bumpy - not a luxury feel at all - and I couldn't help noticing the sunroof glass - on a hot day was hot to the touch, and had a cloth screen under it - without which I reckon the interior would have felt like an oven on a hot sunny day. So I'm not planning to get one of those …

        • ytthr on 06/02/2024 - 16:47

          I thought the same until I owned one.

          • cloudy on 06/02/2024 - 23:27
            -1

            @ytthr: Drive 500km straight on highway and trust me your battery is not doing much, coz it is getting almost no recharge. It’ll be nearly all petrol.

  • giveback on 05/02/2024 - 14:46
    +2

    A different perspective from a hybrid car owner:

    I've been driving a Honda Insight Hybrid for close to 13 years now and haven't needed to replace the battery. It all depends on how you drive. Clocked over 250K km as I used to drive over 100km daily for the return trip to work.

    Fuel efficiency is in the open roads especially freeway with auto cruise control. At the start, I was doing 4.5L per 100KM but in the last year or so I've been doing about 7.5L as I don't drive 'properly' like I used to, don't use eco mode, and only drive to the nearest train station. Haven't had any major part replacement to date.

    Admittedly the battery came up with the message 'check IMA light' 3 years ago but only when the engine is hot which means it might be time to replace the battery. Honda quoted $2.5K at that time to replace the battery but I didn't bother and the car is still going strong today. Maybe I'll replace the battery this year and it may last another 10 years!

    • Crossgates on 05/02/2024 - 15:55
      +3

      The older Honda hybrid system used on the Insight and the CR-Z (what I currently drive) is a little different to the Toyotas/others as it doesn't solely run on electric, so the battery doesn't get taxed nearly as hard. Before buying my CR-Z I did a whole heap of research into this and battery replacements on the Hondas is very uncommon for this reason.

  • LFO on 05/02/2024 - 17:33
    +1

    In your "long run" of 7 years today's new hybrids will be probably categorized as junk by then.

    For a few 12,000 kilometers per year a new ICE will be more cost effective. Remember hybrids carry both and ICE and EV. And still use fuel and the petrol station.

    Go for an efficient and modern ICE now and go EV in perhaps 3 or 5 years. We are in a critical transitional times for vehicles.

  • apple2016 on 05/02/2024 - 19:42
    +1

    Hybrid / phev / ev are not really cheaper than comparable ice cars. It’s a cost you pay for being environmentally responsible.
    However if you can take advantage of novated leasing etc , you might have a bit of savings.

    • niknikniknik on 08/02/2024 - 01:53
      -1

      Hmmmm they're hardly more environmentally responsible. There's different ways of accounting for impact but EVs produce significantly more particle pollution than comparable ICE vehicles, in addition to being objectively more inefficient to manufacture, repair and recycle.

      EVs are a choice for people who enjoy the technology or driving characteristics, not for those who are environmentally responsible. Similarly, there's a lot of 'ifs' for EVs to stack up on the operating cost front too.

      • Euphemistic on 08/02/2024 - 07:18

        There's different ways of accounting for impact but EVs produce significantly more particle pollution than comparable ICE vehicles,

        How so? Thats a new one ive not heard before. EVs will never produce tailpipe emisions and the energy can be created a lot cleaner. What pollution is more? Just tyres? They dont create as much brake dust due to regenerative braking.

        in addition to being objectively more inefficient to manufacture, repair and recycle.

        This may be true, but energy costs of manufacture can be made back in as little as a year and batteries are up to 98% recyclable
        this is while petrol can never be recycled and vast quantities of single use materials are also used to refine and transport petrol. Plus under 30% of the energy in petrol in a fuel tank is turned into forward motion while over 90% of electricity to charge an EV is put into moving the car.

        Its true they use more to

        • niknikniknik on 08/02/2024 - 10:39
          -1

          Here's a link to a study done in 2021. Essentially, EVs produce so much tyre particle emissions that it exceeds tyre+tailpipe emissions of a comparable ICE car. Tyres also contain 6PPD, which is a highly toxic and water soluble compound. Significantly increasing this is therefore not great for the environment, particularly when the particles eventually make their way into natural water systems.

          https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030438942…

          • Euphemistic on 08/02/2024 - 12:53

            @niknikniknik: Those comments are a bit alarmist.

            EVs will produce more particle emmisions than an equivalent ICE - if they are heavier, but if the weight is the same then emmisions will be less because they can use regeneration for braking and emit much less brake dust. Then, EV emit zero other pollutants like non particulate gaseous emission. Purely focussing on particulates is disingenuous.

            I hope you dont drive a heavier than necessary car if you are so worried about these particles.

            • niknikniknik on 08/02/2024 - 15:45
              -2

              @Euphemistic: In reality, similar EVs are significantly heavier than ICE cars unless they have very low range - pending a significant shift in battery technology. Yes, particle emissions, as I stated - hence why I said there are various accounting methods. Greenhouse gasses are one of them, particles another. I haven't seen one being touted as significantly more important than the other, however there are various arguments as to how impactful cars will be on reducing greenhouse gases given agriculture and other industries are significant contributors too. As such, I don't think anyone can hand on heart say that either technology is globally more environmentally responsible than the other, with unchallenged scientific evidence. Not to mention EVs rely on critical minerals which are more important for other areas of human development than the comparatively basic ICE car. P.s my daily is a light and economical ICE car and my fun car is used sparingly.

  • Roe Jogan on 05/02/2024 - 20:39

    the price of hybrid and full ice is pretty much the same these days, you would be a fool to not buy a hybrid if you care about fuel saving cost

    • yummypinacolada on 05/02/2024 - 21:37

      If you are comparing within same model(Corolla ICE vs Corolla Hybrid), then yes you are right. But like I mentioned cheapest 2.0l hybrid car out there will cost you a minimum of 40k, where you could get other 2.0l ICE car for 30k as long as you don't have to stick with Toyota.

      • Tleyx on 06/02/2024 - 00:12

        But then less reliable

        • yummypinacolada on 06/02/2024 - 02:51
          +1

          True, but Mitsubishi have 10 years warranty for peace of mind compare to 5 years warranty from Toyota

          • Tleyx on 06/02/2024 - 12:14

            @yummypinacolada: Warranty only pays to fix something you still end up broken down on side of road at most inconvenient time.

          • brad1-8tsi on 04/03/2024 - 21:25

            @yummypinacolada: MMA won't fix problems when the cars a new and are barely able to do a service properly. They'll be such fun to deal with at 10 years.

      • ChickenAdobo on 06/02/2024 - 16:46

        The new mg3 will come in hybrid form. Will be much cheaper than Toyota offering. You may wait it out in your best interest. Otherwise PHEV is the best of both worlds.

    • skillet on 27/02/2024 - 09:21

      I would rather have a pure ICE or BEV. The reason because when you mix ice and ev, these hybrids are more complex and higher chances of failure.

      Plus if it's a PHEV(50km range) I would be on EV mode 100% because of my use pattern. My PHEV engine would be sitting unused throughout the year and I will be wasting money on servicing as my engine oil and oil filter will be expired but barely used. This is harmful to the environment and it's unnecessary. Also I will have sleepless night thinking about the petrol going stale in the tank even if I had added fuel stabilisers.

      So now I am lugging 300-500kg of ICE component plus transmission dead weight while I wheel around town in full EV mode. The poor little battery has to do so much extra work, this increases wear and shorten it's life. It doesn't make sense at all.

      So it's either an ICE perhaps mild hybrid that helps reduce stop start high fuel consumption or pure EV car. Definitely no PHEV for me.

  • nikey2k27 on 05/02/2024 - 22:48
    -5

    Toyota hybrid for last 7 years i can tell own Prius C and now new yaris cross dove for work first 2000s prius as work for Toyota cowboys. got long story. i total my prius c in 2023 in Aug hit stolen car at hight speed luck to be alive if want 7 news clip just ask. got my my 2010 rav4 i do 20000km for work support worker my mum rav 4 was cost 200 plus a week 3 months to fill up my new Yaris Cross is only $48 a week to fill up at moment i am doing same km as before if up to me every Toyota would be hybrid $2000 is like put solar system on roof at home.

    data if need to see as most km are work trip with customer.

  • nikey2k27 on 05/02/2024 - 22:50
    -4

    all Toyota should hybrid give one 76 one should not be but all them should be and will in next few years hybrid is best of broth world

  • Uchuujin on 06/02/2024 - 10:09
    +4

    If you're just looking for a small city runabout then i would certainly consider the BYD Dolphin EV. Base model is a bit over 40k with on roads, might be overall cheaper if you can Novated Lease it through work. I haven't personally driven one, but had my parentals' Atto3 for 6 months and, compared to my base Model3, the BYD had a great amount of tech for the price, tough not a fan of the interior styling. Honestly, if i were looking to replace my car now as opposed to a year ago, the Dolphin would be very high up on my list to check out, especially the middle tier one with the 60kwh battery. As much battery as you can afford IMO, especially if you're like me and just plan to drive it into the ground. With a warranty guarantee of 80% at 8 years, worst case scenario on my existing 60kwh battery, i'll be getting around 280km's instead of 380 on a full charge.. still more than good enough for a daily, though i'd be hesitant to take it for roadtrips.

    I've driven about 14k kms and have "paid" about $80 in electricity including solar feed in losses, i'll admit my costs are super low and probably an outlier as i'm; A) a freaking tightwad so an happy to spend an hour or so playing games or doing work while at a free charger every week or 2 to save a few bucks, and B) fortunate that my local council has a decent amount of free "slow" 22kw chargers for me to leech off. Have found that my insurance is maybe 10-20% higher than a Camry hybrid quote, but with discounts works out to be similar or 5-10% more. Consumables would be around the same, though i dont plan to bother with replacing the stock EV specific tyres with similar EV ones, have found that i'm going through the rears a bit more than my previous car/s, but that's more my driving i reckon. And no service with Tesla, though BYD i tihnk has an annual service, NFI why other than to check lights, tyres, brake pads and top up the washer, all stuff you can DIY (and should routinely check anyway).

    Worth looking into IMO, especially if you can lease it through work and pay it off pretax.

  • Torak on 06/02/2024 - 11:53
    +1

    My wife has a 2023 Kia Sorento Hybrid and only fills up once a month (average cost is about $84). Meanwhile my 2011 Toyota Camry I need to fill up once a week costing $84-95 dollars. Although a much larger car, we do find it more economical to drive compared to my Camry.

    My next car is going to be full EV due to some incentives with work so it will be interesting to see how that compares to the hybrid.

    • jezzwong on 07/02/2024 - 08:32

      If you dont mind me asking @Torak. What is your fuel economy on the freeway compare to say city driving? Im looking at the same model Sorento HEV, but fence sitting the value of the HEV vs Diesel.

      • Torak on 07/02/2024 - 14:45

        5.5L/100km is what we see on the dashboard, sometimes it jumps up to 7.4L/100km but just depends on how we are driving. It's even great in slower traffic as it just uses the battery until we get over 30km/h.

    • brad1-8tsi on 04/03/2024 - 21:29
      -1

      I have a 2016 Pajero Sport and I only fill up every 4 weeks and it's $120. My partner has a 1.8tsi Golf Alltrack and she fills up every 2 weeks and its $90.

      Who would have thought the Golf would have used so much more fuel?

      • Euphemistic on 06/03/2024 - 17:49

        Downvoted but true. Stating you get XXX km per tank or fill up every Y weeks means nothing as theres no indication of how far you've driven. The only figure you can compare between vehicles is l/100km. Torak's first comment is almost pointless.

        My wifes car is filled up about every fortnight. My car every 3-4 weeks. Doesnt mean mine uses less fuel. It actually uses the same amount of fuel, just gets driven less. (Same engine and drivetrain, same size fuel tank).

        • JIMB0 on 07/03/2024 - 07:31

          Out of 2 cars the one that is driven more will generally use more fuel.

        • brad1-8tsi on 19/03/2024 - 09:05

          I was having a subtle dig at some of the folk and the way they measure fuel economy.

  • surg3on on 06/02/2024 - 11:55

    Hi OP. Just something nobody has mentioned. I have a 2018 Ioniq Hybrid, its up to 46,000km and at the last yearly service the brake pads were still in the green. Its not much but its a saving!

    Another point. My wife owns a BYD EV and I only really recommend an EV if you have a place to park it and charge it. You dont need a high speed charger if you dont drive much, the trickle charger that comes with the car will be fine if you use the cars charging timer (set it to charge outside peak). If you meet those requirements you should test drive a BYD doplhin as it is in your price range https://www.drive.com.au/news/2023-byd-dolphin-price-and-spe…

  • JimB on 06/02/2024 - 12:10
    +2

    If you were going to buy a Corolla, then I'd get the Hybrid.

    If you were looking at i30 and don't really car about cars, then save the money and get the i30.

    Regarding the break even calculations above, they look correct but also does not factor in opportunity costs.

    The $10k difference, could be put into your mortgage earning you 6% or $600 tax free p.a. or if you don't have a mortgage, an index fund. In 10 years time, the the index fund could be worth more than the i30.

    I have no issues with Hybrid, they are great (the battery will outlive the car) but if you're only driving 12,000km a year, you may never break even.

  • Darude Sandstorm on 06/02/2024 - 13:15
    -5

    Toyota Crown vs Toyota Crown Hybrid
    Hybrid gets 8L/100KM
    Non-Hybrid gets 10L/100KM
    Battery needs replacing every 100K KM
    At 100K KM, Hybrid has used 8000L of fuel, Non-Hybrid has used 10,000L of fuel meaning a difference of 2000L of fuel.
    Fuel required in both systems is 98 Octane.
    Average cost of 98 being $2.15 means that the hybrid has saved $4,300 in fuel.
    Hybrid battery cost is $4,500 installed meaning that -$200 has been saved.
    Now during that time there’s the downtime of the vehicle (it going into limp mode when the battery dies, towing it to a battery shop for a replacement, waiting 1-3 months for the battery to be replaced etc) it instantly becomes not worth it.

    I have no idea about the Corolla hybrid battery lifespans. Fuel savings and other differences.
    Sorry I couldn’t help.

    • cashews on 06/02/2024 - 21:56

      Why would you have to replace the battery every 100k?

      • Darude Sandstorm on 06/02/2024 - 23:10

        that's typically how long they last in the toyota crown before they die.
        There's a bloke with 330K kms on his 3rd battery (second replacement).

    • fwhite on 09/02/2024 - 12:31
      +1

      Are you talking about the 2.5 4cylinder or 3.5 v6?
      The 2.5 should have similar fuel economy to a camry, both hybrid and non-hybrid. The 3.5 is essentially a Lexus GS350 or 450h. 8L is fine for the hybrid but 10L with the non-hybrid is impossible if you drive in or around the city. I get 13.5L… thats why I’m planning to buy a majesta hybrid or maybe the newer s220.

      • Darude Sandstorm on 09/02/2024 - 13:15

        2GR maaaaaaaate
        Going off my Discord servers statistics and MTCO collated stats

    • JIMB0 on 10/02/2024 - 12:22

      The V6 hybrid was more about performance than fuel economy. It didn't have a proper Atkinson cycle engine until 2012. You have to drive very gently to get good fuel economy in the earlier models. On the other hand you have to be pushing it pretty hard to see over 12L/100km.

      • Darude Sandstorm on 10/02/2024 - 12:24

        How performance?
        It’s literally a super slow car

  • Dinhtran on 06/02/2024 - 15:10

    I owned 2 hybrid cars camry and rav4. I recommend you to go with the biggest hybrid car possible.

    In short, you get better value for bigger hybrid car because there is not much price difference between petrol vs hybrid.

    The fact people tend to buy bigger car nowaday which made the price of bigger car increased. Notwithstanding that the fuel saving from hybrid engine is bigger when compared from 2 difference full size SUV car.

    The article below advised that the average running costs of Kluger is very good!

    https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/most-affordable-large-suv…

  • npnp on 06/02/2024 - 15:14
    +8

    I owe a hybrid (Prius) and a patrol car (Civic) and having owing both these long term, I think I can answer your question.

    Both these cars have 1.8 L engines, but Prius does 5L per 100 km (used to be even better) while Civic does 7L per 100 km (same driving conditions). That difference isn't really a much to be honest, to make a big difference unless you drove over 20-30K per year (in which case the hybrid cost saving would be around $1,000 per year). Which means, you'll be saving about 10K over 10 years and will probably replace the battery close to 10 year mark which will be around 4K mark which means you are not really saving much. (Mine is still running on the original battery after 13 years and 230,000 km - touch wood).

    However I like Prius due to other reasons. It feels a bit quick off the mark due to electric back up. Also I like seemless driving feel (just 1 gear CVT so you never feel any shifting gears) and regenerative braking (some people hate hybrids for the very reasons though). Moreover Prius's fuel economy doesn't seem to fluctuate too much depending on your driving style. For an example, if I drive like a nut head, pushing the gas pedal to the floor etc, Prius still manages to get similar 5L/100 km range whereas Civic can be as high as 9-10L/100 km. (not sure how Toyota managed to achieve that, it's remarkable in that sense). Reliability is also pretty similar (both never gave me any issues, engines are excellent and will last forever). Maintenance cost of civic would be a tad higher (i.e. brake pads for an example, Prius ones I had to chance only once over 13 years lol). Safety wise they both are 5 star and feel solid on the road even after 10 years of driving.

    If I had to pick just one out of the two, it'll be Prius.

    If we take your examples (Mitsubishi ASX and Corolla Cross Hybrid - I've driven both these cars long term so can comment), I'd pick Corolla Cross Hybrid in a heartbeat. My reasons are below;

    ** Real world fuel economy of Corolla cross would be 5L/100 km while ASX can be 8L/100 km best case
    ** Safety equipment of Corolla cross is state of the art (active lane departure, radar cruise in Corolla is amazing - ASX isn't even in the same ball park in this category)
    ** Driving feel and comfort (due to hybrid battery weight at the rear, corolla cross feels solid and stable)
    ** Corolla cross is quicker (0 to 100 is 7.5s vs over 10s of ASX both 2.0L engines but Corolla cross feels stronger due to electric back up)
    ** Long term reliability and resale value (Toyota wins this category as well and I don't have to explain)

    So in my opinion, the 10K you are paying for Toyota hybrid is definitely justified even the fuel saving is not considered as crucial. Just my two cents.

  • vshek on 06/02/2024 - 15:16

    I would say, get a used Swift of equivalent for 10-15 K for now and wait for 2 years for cheap EVs to be flooding our markets.

    • yummypinacolada on 09/02/2024 - 13:52
      -1

      I just looked at FBM, at 10-15k you will be getting Swift with more than 100k mileage in Sydney. I run the risks of having to deal with major services. Trust me I wouldn't mind buying a 2nd hand used cars, but at the current market(since covid) I honestly believe its better to buy new car.

  • mousie on 06/02/2024 - 17:28

    Cars never save you money…

    But it's a question of how much you will spend over the life of the car.

    Mix of driving. Highway, short commutes. Travel, size, number of species of passengers if applicable. What state etc.

    Toyota's get better resale value in the longer term than Hyundai's or Kia's, and at comparable levels of reliability now.

    European cars are horrible ownership experiences outside of warranty here because of high commanding costs of spares and qualified labour.

    Would recommend that you hire the car you are considering for a weekend and make sure you're happy with it. You can then negotiate harder with the dealer because you know what you want. Being flexible in terms of colour and stock and delivery will assist. you can save 5k across dealers with a bit of effort.

  • happyness on 06/02/2024 - 22:21

    Hi OP. You might want to consider potentially getting a novated lease (depending on your work situation) on a PHEV which could save you quite a bit on tax because of the current fbt laws. My brother has a Camry Hybrid and loves it, he mostly city drives and so minimal petrol usage.

  • cenakhoa on 07/02/2024 - 15:19
    +1

    There are some hidden benefits of EV, PHEV or ICE vehicle:
    - smooth acceleration compared to fuel car especially when you start from red light.
    - air conditioning can run from the battery, you don't have to start your car and inhale exhaust fuel in the car park
    - novated lease tax benefit for some models

  • kungfuman on 07/02/2024 - 15:54

    I don't pay for fuel at all been fuel free for a year, I own a Tesla model 3, I have never had to pay for charging either because of so many free chargers in Queensland I also saved over 2k on fuel for the year.

    But what ever floats your boat Hybrids will defiantly lower you fuel cost but end of day yours still paying the crap price for fuel.

    if all you want is speed and I had to choose between a hybrid and a petrol car I would choose a petrol car, Hybrids are no where near as quick as an EV (especially a tesla), so never think they are.

  • dzpliu on 07/02/2024 - 21:55
    -2

    I'm currently looking to buy a hybrid Toyota car for the quiet hybrid engine and fast start-stop in urban areas.

  • tessel on 08/02/2024 - 07:15

    If you are looking to get from a to b then a second hand fuel efficient car will do. Plenty to choose from anywhere from $10k to $15k.

    • yummypinacolada on 17/02/2024 - 16:22

      Where do you see car $10k to $15k? All of them are already 100k+ mileage or 10years old, there's a risk that I'd need to be responsible for major service which gonna cost me another couple of grands.

      • tessel on 17/02/2024 - 18:57

        Same place you would, carsales, FB, Gumtree etc. We bought a used car that was under 70,000km and no issues at all. Car was 8 years old at the time. New vs used it depends. If you are happy to drop $25k to $30k on a new car go for it.

      • Euphemistic on 17/02/2024 - 19:58

        Even if it costs you an extra couple thousand youll still be ahead vs a $40k new car.

  • ForkSnorter on 08/02/2024 - 15:08
    -4

    With all the opinions offered already, I'm here to offer a different one:

    Don't buy a car. Catch the bus or train. Ride a bike. Catch a ferry. Move somewhere that has decent public transport. Or start a campaign to force your local elected politicians to improve the public transport. Sure you will deal with a bit of inconvenience. But you will save tens of thousands of dollars over a decade, possibly even a hundred thousand dollars, and you will end up healthier and happier.

    Cars ruin cities. They turn them into noisy, dangerous cesspits full of foul air that causes cancer and other diseases. They kill people. They make it more difficult for everyone to get anywhere (because the roads are congested and with everyone driving there is less incentive for governments to improve public transport). They reduce the quality of life of about 1/3 of Australians who live on busy roads and have to put up with endless car noises, vibrations and foul air in their homes.

    Australia should have had high speed rail decades ago. Instead, we are a bunch of angry bogans hurtling down the freeway at 105km/h, swearing at each other while risking our lives in a stressful trip wherever we're going. You could not make it up. In a better world, we could be sitting back, enjoying the view out the window or reading a book, getting some work done or having a meal, breathing clean fresh air on the safe, fast trip to our destination.

  • arislan on 16/02/2024 - 21:10
    +1

    Just some other points to consider when buying specifically Toyota hybrids latest models. Toyota uses eCVT on their hybrids, which.. has less moving parts, no clutches, no belts, so less maintainence costs. Similarly on the rest of engine and car, no alternators, near lifetime brakes, no drive belts, etc. There is actually less engine/transmission acessories in toyota hybrid engines.

    The batteries last longer but a little more to replace so about even I'd say compared to petrol where you'd replace more frequent at cheaper cost.

    Any "math" that doesn't include maintenance cost of these is inaccurate "math" - more like fake news.

    Its not just insurance and fuel consumption when owning a car - maintenance cost is quite significant. Also toyota provides first 5 year capped service cost regardless of model anyway. Again all the above, toyota only.

    Other hybrids like Hyundais that uses dual clutch cvts with belts, etc. will kill ya… even bloody Honda is going back into hybrids but with clutch+belt ecvts… here be dragons.

    • yummypinacolada on 17/02/2024 - 16:20

      Thanks for your input, I know Toyota is the most known for reliability and cheap to maintain. And if one is looking for Hybrid then Toyota is the only one to go. But my consideration is the saving between cheap Petrol car(~30k) and Toyota Hybrid car(~40k).

      All of the brand I tested they provide more than 5 year warranty and 5 years capped service, so Toyota is not the only one(actually Toyota provide the shortest warranty and capped service out of the ones I've test drive).

      • arislan on 17/02/2024 - 23:09

        Up to you, I'm not trying to sell a Toyota. For the Hyundais, there's a lot of models for i30, not sure which you're looking at but you might want to check out posts online about the reliability of their dual clutch tranmission which is in some of the i30 models. Personally between mitsu and hyundai, I'd go mitsu. Mitsu's also had issues with their cvt a while back - pre 2020, pretty most brands have even Toyotas, but haven't seen any recent bulletins on them.

  • yummypinacolada on 26/02/2024 - 20:44
    +1

    Just an update, I ended up getting Hyundai i30 Hybrid for $34.5k. My reason for choosing the car because I love the design and the driving experience are actually the smoothest compare to other car I tested(Corolla, Mazda 3, and ASX).

    I got 1.5k discount, but I didn't get the best price. I compare prices between 2 dealers. The other dealer took too long to responds, and a couple of minutes after I pay the deposit the other dealer messaged me they could do it for $33.65k. For those who are looking to get one as well, you can call Hyundai Ryde NSW to get that price for Hyundai I30 Hybrid White color.

    Lesson learned, that you shouldn't be too hasty when buying a car, most of the sales person will try to force you to do a deal on the spot so you can't compare prices with other dealers.

    • kerfuffle on 26/02/2024 - 20:55

      $1500 off a brand new car is pretty good. Barely got $100 off mine

      • yummypinacolada on 26/02/2024 - 21:20

        Are you buying a Toyota? AFAIK if you are buying Toyota, then no hope for bargaining. If you're buying other brand, I could easily get 1k off just by asking. And if you compare price with other dealer, you actually could get way cheaper than that.

        • kerfuffle on 26/02/2024 - 21:21

          I bought a Toyota Corolla ZR hybrid sedan. A year ago.

  • weee on 06/03/2024 - 14:06

    never driven a hybrid, does the electric part hurt it when you resell/trade in because people have to factor in replacing the battery compare to a full petrol car?

    • Euphemistic on 06/03/2024 - 17:50
      +1

      It is more likely to be the opposite. People will pay more because it uses less fuel.

      • weee on 06/03/2024 - 20:12

        right but wouldn't replacing battery be a concern after say 7 years or so?

        • Euphemistic on 07/03/2024 - 19:06

          Only if you believe the anti EV rhetoric getting around. Yes, they might need reolacing but probably not at 7 years unless its very high kms

          FWIW my brother has been driving an import hybrid Estima of 2007. Battery is almost kaput and its still more economical than straight petrol. Just has almost zero pure EV range.

    • yummypinacolada on 07/03/2024 - 18:09

      I think hybrid cars actually holds their value better as long as you don't sell it when there's a problem with the battery which needs to be replaced soon. Its the same logic with petrol cars, if you sell it right when there's a major service coming up then the resell value will drop.

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