Accident with TPP Insurance - Should Own Insurance Pay?

Hansi on 10/12/2023 - 16:31
Last edited 10/12/2023 - 16:32

TLDR:

Family member was in a not-at-fault accident and has TPP with "Uninsured motorist extension benefit of up to $3000". Other party does not engage with family member's insurance and it is unclear if they are insured or not.

Grab your popcorn here we go

Situation:

Family member drives a low value car (appr. value $2000) and has Third Party Property Car insurance (location NSW).

One day when turning right in a roundabout (white car) they got T-Boned into the passenger door when another driver failed to give way (red car) - diagram.

Result:

White car - Passenger door dented in, can't lower window anymore

Red car - front bumper scratched, cracked and not correctly attached anymore

Details exchanged. Red car driver (red P plater) blamed white car driver of causing the crash due to slowing down in the roundabout (in anticipation of the pedestrian crossing). Pedestrians "witnessed" the situation, accusing the white car driver of being at fault too (more on that later). Red car driver and their dad pushed for white car driver to pay cash on the spot, but they refused and suggested to go through insurance. Red car driver's dad called white car driver following day and offered $500 if they don't go through insurance, but simply pay "each others damage". When still pushing for insurance red car driver's dad mentioned that the petestrian witnesses are his relatives and as such they would win any insurance claim.

On a side note, family enough they also mocked the family member for driving such a "shitbox, so damage shouldn't matter" (they red car is a new Sport Hatchback).

White car driver informed their insurance, which told him that they called the red car driver, who doesn't want to provide their insurance details and doesn't engage at all.

Follow up:

Our family members insurance offers an "Uninsured motorist extension benefit of up to $3000" according to their PDS. One of the requirements is that "the other person does not have insurance cover for damage caused to third party property". Since the other person does not engage at all, the family member's own insurance also sees no requirement to offer or provide damage cover to the white car for "Uninsured motorist extension benefit of up to $3000", as they can't establish if the other party have insurance cover at all.

Small claims court in NSW is expensive, so best case scenario would be if the insurance would cover the car repair or a write-off.

Question:
I do not doubt that the other party is at fault, but the question is - should the family member's insurance pay for the damage to their white car?

Poll Options

  • 30
    Insurance should pay based on uninsured motorist extension benefit of up to $3000
  • 3
    Insurance should not have to pay
  • 4
    Take to small claims court
  • 2
    Unlucky, just go on with your life
Automotive Car Insurance Insurance

Comments

  • Drakesy on 10/12/2023 - 16:52
    +3

    White car driver informed their insurance, which told him that they called the red car driver, who doesn't want to provide their insurance details and doesn't engage at all.

    Sounds like the insurance has to try harder and send a letter of demand. You're not with Budget Direct are you by chance?

    • Hansi on 10/12/2023 - 20:25

      Insurance is Woolworths “Everyday Insurance” I think they’re called now

      • DazMon on 11/12/2023 - 10:56
        +1

        Your 'insurance' company does not sound helpful at all.
        They don't seem to have any bite?

    • HeWhoKnows on 12/12/2023 - 14:02
      -2

      And why the story book?
      We are not judge and jury and have no say.
      This could have been summed up in 2 lines.
      OP's family should consult their insurer.
      And suffer the consequences of TPP (LOL)
      End of story

  • Ponsonby on 10/12/2023 - 16:56
    +12

    Don't the road rules require a car entering a roundabout to give way to cars already on the roundabout? If so, what can any witnesses (dodgy or otherwise) add to the argument?

    • AustriaBargain on 10/12/2023 - 18:33
      +5

      That's what I don't get. Why is OP even hearing any of this, isn't the point of insurance that the red car has to try and lie to and stress out the insurer and the white car doesn't need to hear or think about any of it until the dust settles? White car shouldn't even be aware of these "witnesses" until their own insurer has vetted the situation. It should be red car doing all the stressing and jumping through hoops, white car should be sleeping the sleep of the just.

  • mapax on 10/12/2023 - 16:58
    +3

    What’s the excess?

    I’d just go to the wreckers and buy a door for $200 and change it myself if that is the only damage.

    • Hansi on 10/12/2023 - 20:27

      Good idea, didn’t think about that!

      Excess I believe is $500. We’re paying for the insurance for them but set it up years ago, only $200 or so a year, definitely worth it!

  • angywoo on 10/12/2023 - 16:58

    your family member gives the other drivers details to their insurance and then lets them deal with it. That is why you pay them the ig bucks.

    • Hansi on 10/12/2023 - 20:28

      They did, but their own insurance is dragging their feet. All they told them was “can’t get a hold of the details of the other party, unlucky…”

      • angywoo on 11/12/2023 - 03:02
        +3

        Your family member needs to start quoting the pds back to the insurance company. If your family member has provided everything the pds states is required then the insurance company does not have a leg to stand on. I would assume your family member could then say to the insurance company that they are not holding up their end of the contract and then lodge a complaint with the ombudsman. The insurance company has to disclose to the shareholders how many ombudsman complaints they have received and they do not like to do this. So it usually works out in your favour if you are requesting the right thing.

  • Bargainitis on 10/12/2023 - 17:07

    I'm actually liaising with a situation that is TPP and going through the non-insured cover.

    Ping me early next year - I should have an update by then

    • Hansi on 10/12/2023 - 20:28

      Awesome, keen to hear the outcome!

    • Hansi on 27/02/2024 - 21:02

      Hey @Bargainitis what was the outcome?

      • Bargainitis on 27/02/2024 - 22:16

        Hey thanks for the prompt. I completely forgot about this thread.

        The insurer sided with us and cover the repairs up to $3,000.

        • Hansi on 28/02/2024 - 09:05

          Thanks for the feedback!

          • Bargainitis on 28/02/2024 - 09:24

            @Hansi: no prob. Happy to share the journey offline if its helpful.

            Not sure where you got to with your incident.

  • Ocker on 10/12/2023 - 17:09
    +3

    Open and shut case - legally the red car is at fault for not giving way to the car already in the round-about. Lawyer up.

    • AustriaBargain on 10/12/2023 - 18:31

      If you had comprehensive then your insurer's lawyers would handle it yeah? And apparently with TPP the insurer's lawyers don't even want to hear about it?

      • Ughhh on 10/12/2023 - 20:03
        +1

        Op bought TTP, which mainly covers situations where you're at fault, and/or IF other party is at fault AND does not have insurance.

        Op is not able to satisfy the latter.

        You pay for comprehensive if you want your insurance to cover regardless if youre at fault and regardless if other party has insurance or not (provided you meet the terms ie. not dangerous driving etc)

  • DashCam AKA Rolts on 10/12/2023 - 17:42
    +4

    Excellent MS Paint diagram. 5/7

    • MS Paint on 10/12/2023 - 18:34
      +1

      A new minimum standard has been set by OP.

  • GordonD on 10/12/2023 - 17:58
    +2

    What we think the insurer should do is irrelevant.

    What the NSW State Insurance Regulatory Authority thinks does matter.
    Contact them:
    https://www.sira.nsw.gov.au/disputes-and-complaints/complain…
    1300 656 919
    [email protected]

  • AustriaBargain on 10/12/2023 - 18:30
    +2

    Yet another post that is justifying my choice to pay extra for comprehensive insurance for my own shitbox. Apparently when you just have TPP your insurer just shrugs at you and says "I unno".

    • Hansi on 10/12/2023 - 20:31

      Definitely worth it if there’s a marginal difference only. My motorcycle for example is $120 TPP vs $200 comprehensive- that’s a no brainer.

  • tim_geo on 11/12/2023 - 00:54

    I believe SIRA regulates CTP/bodily injury, which does not appear to have occurred here, just property damage.

    Everyday Car Insurance PDS appears to be this, page 19 for the Uninsured motorist extension benefit:
    https://insurance.everyday.com.au/content/dam/Everyday/Insur…

    You appear to have met the requirement for "the other car and/or person can be identified (you should obtain the name and address of the person who caused the accident and the registration number of the other car involved to meet this requirement)."

    I would have thought the process would then be a letter of demand from your insurer regarding the accident, and the other party could then respond with details of their insurer. I wouldn't think the process stops if the other party refuses to confirm (motor property damage) insurance details or lack of insurance. However, if they do provide their insurance details, I believe your insurer will pass you those details and end the claim.

    I guess end of day if you're not happy with your insurer's conduct, you will need to go through the complaints route to see if you can get them to take the next steps. Good luck!

  • ssfps on 11/12/2023 - 02:17
    +1

    I experienced a similar situation (not at fault, other party coy about their insurance). Could not get anywhere with them, so I simply told my insurer that I believed they were uninsured, have not given any indication of being insured. My insurer chased them up and within 2 days I had their insurance details. It was a small time insurer that mostly did commercial insurance, so i'm not sure what was going on with them - maybe something dodgy. Either way, my TPP insurance helped greatly there and their insurance paid out.
    Good luck OP.

  • jacross on 11/12/2023 - 07:45

    The practicalities are one thing but as, someone with a law, degree (but not practising) my view is they are trying to distract you from a very clear truth. Look at the road rules. Look at your diagram. Game over. You win. Family member witness are no match for a dent in the side of the car. What they think of your car is immaterial. What they hry think of your family is immaterial.

    Getting an actionable result though…yeah. Wish you luck with your insurer.

  • jonkvh on 11/12/2023 - 08:41
    +4

    No one's pointed out the weirdness of the witness being a relative & also the threat to give false evidence too. Sounds like something that would happen in a southeast Asian country…

    • Hansi on 11/12/2023 - 09:00
      +2

      Based on their appearance and accents you may be right actually! I’m not 100% sure though.

  • gengi on 11/12/2023 - 08:53
    +1

    Your insurer needs to pull its finger out,

    The insurer needs to send a letter of demand to the other party. If they don’t put in a complaint then escalate it to the ombudsman.

    You maybe able to get their details from the police if they are not forthcoming. Some states require you to exchange insurance details also so maybe worth looking into that.

    Your also likes entitled to a credit car hire till they settle so that’s something you can do to drive up costs for them. You can send a letter of demand for pretty cheap and could look into running a small claim case yourself if they don’t provide their insurance details.

  • The Hawk on 11/12/2023 - 10:58
    +1

    Insurance is the worst wasteland of BS.

    I've seen insurers make people pay an excess for not at fault accidents which they will only refund if they can claim costs from the at fault party, fine if they have comprehensive insurance, but in instances similar to this it seems that the 3rd party can just ignore them (or reject the fault) and it falls into the too hard basket so the insurer doesn't bother and their client cops the excess cost.

    Push them to do what you're paying for and escalate where they are not.

    • Ughhh on 11/12/2023 - 13:55

      I've seen insurers make people pay an excess for not at fault accidents which they will only refund if they can claim costs from the at fault part

      °best thing you can do for yourself is to read the pds and not assume every company and policy is the same

      • The Hawk on 12/12/2023 - 12:45

        While I agree with the principle of reading and understanding the PD, I think when it comes to small claims in particular, the insurer takes an excess from their customer mitigating their total loss and it's just not worth their effort if the at fault party puts up any sort of fight.

        I'd suggest there is a number or formula that says we estimate costs of $XX to recover the loss and if $XX is greater than their out of pocket they don't bother cashing it. Don't get me wrong, that's a practical choice on the insurer's side, but a bit of a raw deal for their customer. More likely to be an issue in cases like the OP where we know it's going to be a small number.

        I'd love to know what sort of $$ an insurance company takes in as "not at fault" excesses that can't be reclaimed.

  • payless69 on 11/12/2023 - 11:22
    -1

    If you claim you have a claim record.
    A non fault claim is still a claim even to a lesser extent.
    All in all for the next 5 years or so your net payout is likely less than half given premiums are claims based.

  • Kremleen on 11/12/2023 - 16:11

    Your family member needs to escalate this with the insurance company. It's their responsibility to chase it up. One can safely assume that by not providing insurance details, the other party is uninsured.

    Call and ask to file a formal complaint. What details from the red P-plater does your family member possess? If they have name, address and rego, it's enough for a letter of demand.

    • Hansi on 11/12/2023 - 23:19

      All those details and a photo of their drivers license. I agree with your points and hope it’s enough!

      • Kremleen on 12/12/2023 - 12:38

        It's more than enough. Just push it up the chain and it'll get sorted.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join