Rental Property: Dishwasher Replacement | Who Is Liable to Replace?

Bman17 on 28/11/2023 - 12:17
Last edited 28/11/2023 - 17:58

I received a rental repair request from the tenant to replace the dishwasher as it is not turning ON.
My question is: Do I need to replace this? I mean tenant can get their own dishwasher machine, just like washing machines and fridges.
Note: The property wasn't advertised as a fully furnished one.

Edit: Do I have to replace? - is what I meant to ask instead of "Who is liable"
I take all your feedback positively and also making sure tenant don't suffer for me being nube landlord. #LearningInProcess.

Poll Options expired

  • 21
    Tenant can get their own dishwasher.
  • 996
    Landlord needs to replace the dishwasher.
General Discussion Dishwasher

Comments

        • AustriaBargain on 29/11/2023 - 18:44

          Why would the other owners pay for your dishwasher though? Strata usually only pays for things under the floors or behind walls.

          • imurgod on 29/11/2023 - 18:50

            @AustriaBargain: Believe me, I am aware of how it sounds. I also thought "Well, I paid for the item, therefore I own it and it's my responsibility". I was wrong!

            From what I read, they are responsible for almost anything fixed to the building. I say almost, since they didn't replace my hot water system. I paid for that but they paid for the plumbing part.

            I literally just had them pay for a replacement dishwasher last week.

            I was more surprised about the air-con. Since the motor is external, they paid for the replacement.

            Also, my properties are all with different strata and all of them have paid.

            I know it sounds like it couldn't possibly be right… yet here I am, not out of pocket!!

            • AustriaBargain on 29/11/2023 - 18:52

              @imurgod: What do you pay in strata fees?

              • imurgod on 29/11/2023 - 18:57

                @AustriaBargain: It varies but none of my properties that are strata exceed $1,500 per year in strata fees.

                Oh, and if it makes any difference, the strata ones are all units.

                • trapper on 30/11/2023 - 01:13

                  @imurgod:

                  $1,500 per year in strata fees.

                  And now we know why, they paying for landlords new appliances all year.

                  • imurgod on 30/11/2023 - 19:04

                    @trapper: $1,500 pa is peanuts (and tax deductible) because all the strata properties I own have less than 15 owners in them and you don't replace this stuff "all year" or even every 5 years.

                    Covers insurance, gardening, cleaning, repairs, upgrades, maintenance, pest control, etc.

                    Remember that this stuff is also covered under the strata policy.

                    Either way, I haven't seen any strata properties worth buying (i.e. brick buildings in areas that provide big returns) that have strata fees anywhere near this low.

                    Beats paying $10K+ strata for cardboard construction with a pool and lifts!

  • Repstar on 29/11/2023 - 19:44

    Landlord

  • DealzEddy123 on 29/11/2023 - 20:09
    +2

    if it was rented with a dishwasher, then it is landlords responsibility (Regardless of whether it was in contract or not)

    not even sure how its debatable (im landlord and a tenant)

    • jv on 29/11/2023 - 20:26
      -2

      if it was rented with a dishwasher, then it is landlords responsibility

      Not if it wasn't explicitly stated in the lease and if the dishwasher was not working at the commencement of the lease.

      • Jolakot on 01/12/2023 - 18:38

        Other way around, if there's a dishwasher and it isn't specifically excluded, then it has to be replaced.

        Even if there's an old picture showing a dishwasher in the ad, and it isn't excluded, then you could be on the hook for adding one depending on your state.

        Do you actually expect potential tenants to run a load of dishes through before signing a lease to make sure it works?

  • Daddy Chill on 29/11/2023 - 20:31
    +2

    JV you are a wart

    • jv on 29/11/2023 - 20:36
      -4

      and you are a callus…

  • kiwimex on 29/11/2023 - 21:23
    +2

    Wow who would want this guy as a landlord……….An investment property is not for you Mr Scrooge

  • 1Kenobi on 29/11/2023 - 21:29
    +6

    slumlord

    • Protractor on 30/11/2023 - 12:07
      +1

      dumb lord?
      scum lord?

  • idonotknowwhy on 30/11/2023 - 07:14
    +4

    People like you are the absolute worst, and the reason I ended up buying a place.

  • THICKnSLOW on 30/11/2023 - 09:18
    -1

    Kudos to the OP for not using a real estate agent to manage the property, because we all know THEY ARE THE WORST.

    They take a cut of everything even if they don't do shit.

  • UFO on 30/11/2023 - 10:19
    -1

    How was the property advertised, and is the dishwasher noted in the condition report? If the dishwasher wasn't mentioned in the advertising, and the condition report states 'unknown' condition, the landlord is off the hook.

    I once took a landlord to the Tribunal for this exact thing. They had an "original" dishwasher (ie 1980's absolutely horrendous dishwasher in an original green laminate and fake wood kitchen), that broke down and they wouldn't fix or replace it. It worked for a while, then stopped.

    Tribunal sided with the landlord, because I rented the place knowing the age of both the kitchen and dishwasher- and it was not expected that the dishwasher was functional. They never advertised the dishwasher as usable, even though it was very clear there was one there in pics and inspection and its completely reasonable that I would think this would be included. I was therefore not entitled to an "upgrade" to a functioning or new dishwasher (which is a fitting like a fridge, not a fixture like a hot water system).

    God honest truth. I know there's 700 odd votes saying landlord should be responsible (and I'm one of them!), but the Tribunal don't look at common sense, they look at the original ad, photos, and lease agreement. If there is no mention of a functional dishwasher being made available for use by the tenant, then its presence alone doesn't determine that its in fact a functional item.

    I think it's fair a landlord should repair or replace a faulty dishwasher, but their counter-argument that 'it hasn't worked in years and it was never advertised as working in the clearly very old kitchen" will be backed up in any legal action. They didn't even say 'faulty' in the condition report…. just 'unknown condition'.

    Tribunals can often suck, and suck hard. A faulty dishwasher doesn't have to removed or replaced. They can just leave it in its hole forever.

    • Protractor on 30/11/2023 - 12:34
      +2

      and I'll wager this scenario would have the opposite finding at the same tribunal.

  • johnfuller on 30/11/2023 - 11:20
    +1

    was it included in the rental when you rented it out to the tenant? yes? landlord is liable.

    did the tenant install? tenant is liable.

  • PurchaseAnxiety on 30/11/2023 - 12:17

    Sure, the tenant can get a new one, as long as you're happy for them to take it with them once they move out. But then your new tenants which probably be wondering where their dishwasher is…

  • Cgyun2014 on 30/11/2023 - 12:26

    Mark it

  • MrFunSocks on 30/11/2023 - 12:30

    If the property had a dishwasher when you rented it out then you have to replace it if it breaks.

  • DontNeedThis on 30/11/2023 - 15:01
    +2

    Isn't it enough that the tenant is buying you a house?

  • contuckey on 30/11/2023 - 15:25
    +2

    If your worried about something as simple as a dishwasher maybe you should just sell up and buy some stock.

  • plugmeister on 30/11/2023 - 15:37

    Yes just replace or fix it! Why are Australian landlords tightarses?

  • Dagwood-Dog on 30/11/2023 - 16:49

    Yuck. Scum.

  • intelseb on 30/11/2023 - 17:53

    buy $650 dishwasher & increase rent by $15 bucks a week yields a return of $130 across a year.

  • itsmattaitken on 30/11/2023 - 18:41

    I replaced a dishwasher recently, they're disposable items now. Do the right thing OP.

  • tanguyen on 01/12/2023 - 10:02
    +1

    I remember talking to a property manager (hated this so much) and they proudly stated "the tenant contacted me to tell me that the dishwasher was broken so I told them "you have hands don't you? Then wash your dishes with your hands."

    I see people give away free working Miele dishwashers, let alone any other mid-tier dishwasher. Say in a very conservative situation, if the rent is $400 per week, these tenants are paying $20k a year, and if you want the convenience of replacing it quickly rather than hunting for a free dishwasher, say you pay $100 for a Westinghouse second hand dishwasher.

  • xrayed giraffe on 01/12/2023 - 11:10
    +2

    frick me.
    doesnt understand basic concepts of his investment

    landlords should be licensed, and people like this weeded out.

    • Grok on 01/12/2023 - 17:26

      I agree.

      But Tenants should be licensed or rated as well and people who damage or trash properties and/or don't pay rent weeded out.

      That is a far larger problem.

      Every landlord has horror stories. Not true for tenants.

      • Jolakot on 01/12/2023 - 18:52

        Crap tenants just lower landlord profits, crap landlords ruins a tenants living situation.

        • Grok on 02/12/2023 - 11:20

          There has to be a balance and now there isn’t.

          Crap tenants destroy all profits and eventually cause landlords to exit the industry.

          Tenants advocates seem to want a system where all rental housing is provided by the state. If you can’t see that as a bad idea I can’t help you.

      • ginormousgiraffe on 01/12/2023 - 21:18

        If you made the rules, what would you do with a person that damaged a property or didn't pay rent in the past? Send them to jail or make them homeless? What an awful idea.

        • Grok on 02/12/2023 - 11:17

          Yes let’s make it that the bad tenants can’t be identified by landlords.

          Let’s make so there are no consequences for bad behaviour.

          Let’s make the landlord responsible for everything a tenant does and the tenant responsible for nothing.

          That is why I pulled out of the industry because of attitudes like yours that have bullied legislators to agree.

          • ginormousgiraffe on 02/12/2023 - 16:43

            @Grok: You didn't answer my question, do you want these people you describe to be homeless?

            • Grok on 03/12/2023 - 09:42

              @ginormousgiraffe: Yes if the alternative is that private enterprise has to clean up the mess made by lax government.

              The government can house the people it refuses to police.

              Why should mom and pop landlords have to put up with trashed properties representing their life savings because some tenants just go from one property to another creating havoc and not paying rent?

              Why do we tolerate that? Why is everything in the property sphere ridiculously stacked towards the tenant?

              The problems of the lack of housing is not due to landlords, high rents are not due to landlords. Costs are skyrocketing through regulations, inflation, construction costs and massive population increase.

              As I said, I withdrew my capital from property. I know a few long time landlords who are getting disillusioned as well.

              • ginormousgiraffe on 03/12/2023 - 17:09

                @Grok: Just get insurance for your investment instead of palming off even more responsibility onto the taxpayer.

                • Grok on 04/12/2023 - 19:05

                  @ginormousgiraffe: You have a bad attitude to civil behaviour.

                  The opposite is happening, the taxpayers are palming off responsibility to the Landlords.

                  Law and order enforcement is not the responsibility of investors

                  It’s counterproductive, it reduces trust in the investment, it raises rents for everyone because some people are pigs.

                  Plus as I said, the situation forced me out, better returns elsewhere.

                  And now we have a rental crisis. Not enough investors give a toss about realestate apart from owner occupier. Renting is for mugs in my opinion, its mostly taken up by financially unsophisticated old school investors who don’t know better,

                  It all absolutely the government’s fault, not investors.

  • sauce2k on 01/12/2023 - 11:38
    +2

    Landlord for sure. The oven broke at my place previously and I replaced it for them.

    Tax time :)

  • Grok on 01/12/2023 - 17:17

    Just by asking the question the landlord indicates he doesn't understand property investment in Australia. You are always in the wrong as a landlord. You are a greedy bastard if you are a landlord by default.

    Rental properties are now a dud investment. You no longer have any control over your property. Every disagreement between you and the tenant you will lose. Even if you are right, you will likely lose. Every tribunal and watchdog group has it in for you.

    Any minute additional taxes, rent controls, eviction controls and additional requirements will be mandated like A/C and even solar energy systems.

    Get out and buy an Index Fund.

    Property is for mugs.

    Yes I was a property investor.

  • Adam barro on 01/12/2023 - 23:08

    My Landlord replaced mine when it was broken, it was very old and simply broke while using it.

  • angywoo on 01/12/2023 - 23:19

    Is it documented on the PCR?

    (Property condition report for those playing at home)
    If yes, is it listed under exclusions? If not, then you are responsible. Would you ask this question if it were the oven, aircon or security alarm?

    Did the listing advert mention it?

    • Grok on 02/12/2023 - 11:26

      Go to a furniture rental place and get a quote for a fridge rental, that is what it would add to your rent,

      How about a dining table, lounge and bed? That is called a furnished apartment, they are available but cost more.

      How about a car in the garage? Go ask Hertz,

      Everything has a cost.

        • Grok on 05/12/2023 - 12:34

          Because those properties were constructed for owner occupiers. It makes little or no sense to add mocrowaves and dishwashers, you are increasing your costs for no benefit. You need to factor on replacing those items every five years at a cost of two weeks rent.

          Obviously many bought those properties at the very limit of the financial abilities so decided to rent them out a while and lower the costs of ownership.

          The problem that many real estate investors don’t appreciate is after 10 years (if you are luck) that new property most likely needs a full renovation. Paint, carpet, kitchen and bathroom repairs or replacement is common.

          If you don’t do it you have a daggy run down place when you started with a brand spanking new apartment. Either way you have lost a pile of money,

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