Topping one: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005003797263602.html
Two very similar high performing dac amps one has 3.5mm and the other 1/4 inch and 4.4 inch balanced, will pretty much drive 99% of headphones/iems
Thanks fro sharing. Where did you pick up the DL200 for that price? I guess it wasnt Aoshida as they dont have it in their store.
Thank you, i might pull the plug on it, i just wish it had an xlr output. Wanting to use this for movie warching at night with a paur of senneheiser 6xx. I bought a balanced xlr cable for them and have kind of boxed myself in now with this cable. I may just have to ditch it so that I am not limiting myself.
@ChargerV6: Yes both trs and XLR are balanced, just different connector types.
balanced only matters if you want to run to active monitors or a headphone amp with balanced inputs.
Either amp/DAC combo would be a good upgrade to headphones only (from PC or phone etc).
@giovannip: No need and no difference at all.
Also the "Balanced" outputs for all of these, including the DX7+ which is around $1K are fake balanced outputs. They're not real balanced.
I have Focal Clears and I've used them balanced on $3000+ amplifiers for testing purposes. If there's any differences, they're so small, it's basically not audible.
The DL200 will be more than powerful enough for 6XX considering its twice as powerful as the C200 which I've already tested.
I also have a HD660S on hand and have used it with the CL200, and never needed to even put high gain on.
So with the DL200, I will be setting it to low gain and forgetting about power needs.
@ThatsCheap: I agree with you, i hust wanted the convenience of an xlr out, in saying that, ill just get an adaptor as per Charger's advice.
Btw, I also have clears with a D90/A90 stack and i love those headphones.
the "Balanced" outputs for all of these, including the DX7+ which is around $1K are fake balanced outputs. They're not real balanced.
What do you mean by fake? I got an ifi zen DAC with balanced output via a 4.4 pentaconn to XLRs cable, which I use as a preamp. Also a adi2 fs the has xkr outputs on the back (for monitors).
I would check that. The description on AliExpress says TRS Balanced 4.4mm 6.35mm Output. So Both the headphone and TRS outputs are balanced (unless you don't trust this, possible with Ch-ifi but I doubt it).
https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/799.html
@G-rig: I mean it's fake balanced, the vast majority of amp/dacs output fake balanced via the headphone output. They bridge the output and call it balanced. You know if the output is really balanced or not if the output power is double the non-balanced output.
The true balanced is at the back via XLR or 4.4 and to be used only for non-powered speakers. Not for headphones. That's the TRS Balanced you're referring to.
See if you scroll down to the specs, the RCA at the back is single ended, and it's 2.0Vrms, while the TRS is 4.0Vrms. With the headphones (front outputs), the balanced and unbalanced are both the same output power.
@ThatsCheap: Yeah I was referring to the trs and 4.4 balanced outputs on the back (for connecting to headphone amp and active speakers (both as a pre-out). Passive speakers will never have balanced inputs and need a proper amp.
I know some of these DAC have a balanced headphone output too (which sounds like what you're referring to, but not many people will have balanced headphones anyway).
Ps. Just checked the specs on the iFi Zen Dac
Output Audio RCA (SE) — 2.1V fixed 1V / 3.3V max. (variable) 4.4mm Pentaconn (BAL) — 4.2V fixed 2V / 6.2V max. (variable)
Zout: <= 200 Ohm (BAL) <= 100 Ohm (SE)
With the headphones (front outputs), the balanced and unbalanced are both the same output power.
that isn't correct:
4.4mm (BAL)
330mW@32 Ohm; 6.6V@600 Ohm;
16 Ohm - 600 Ohm Headphone
6.3mm S-BAL (SE)
230mW@32 Ohm; 3.3V@600 Ohm
16 Ohm - 600 Ohm Headphone
it would appear the the ifi zen's 4.4mm output is indeed true balanced.
@harro112: He's wrong indeed, I'm sure manufacturers can't call things as balanced in their specs if it isn't. First I've heard people going around saying fake balanced to be honest.
@G-rig: oh "fake balanced" (connections just for the convenience) is absolutely a real thing, and given the price of the zen i would've put my house on that being the case. cool to see it isn't tho.
@harro112: Oh right good to know.
Can see it in the specs usually as Thatscheap mentioned. You would expect proper ones though over a price point.
Yeah the iFi and brand is pretty solid, the V1 only costs me $200 few years ago (maybe $300 now for v2). People snub them off a bit (maybe the retro styling, or burr brown vs ESS chip) but they are pretty good quality and more of a fun sound over too clinical.
Haven't really felt the need to upgrade anyway, although a neat standard dimension stack would look good on the desk). Stuff like the E10 or E30 would be a side step, and before you know it I'd be spending $700, so this is good enough for PC setup :).
@harro112: Yep, that's the way to tell as I mentioned earlier. Few DAC/AMPs under $1K do have balanced, and the way to tell is to look at their spec sheet and if they mentioned specifically double the power via the balanced headphone output. The ifi's do by the looks of it, I've tested a couple of them before as well. But that's pretty much it really, and most people don't need it. It doesn't change the sound signature of the headphone via balanced or not.
I can see $264 + tax.
So $291.12 for me. Unless you know they way to avoid GST.
I was actually looking at the MX3s since I have some passive speakers and all in one would be nice. Any suggestions in this category or would you still suggest separate units?
mx3s is $280 currently, 300 probably the budget. I don't have amazing headphones or speakers to power but just wanted something semi-decent quality.
Do you need them to be wireless/bluetooth and noise cancelling? Otherwise just get these from the previous post https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/811234
Not looking for headphones. Looking for a dac/amp/preamp stack or combo. Topping mx3s is an all in one.
Is it the amp section though that you say is twice as powerful? Because that's not really a metric for DACs and it seems to me from reading the specs that the amp sections are pretty close in power anyway, nowhere near double. 1.3w x 2 @ 32 ohms vs 1.5w x 2.
What am I missing? cheers!
As you know decibel (dB) values rises exponentially the higher you go. From my understanding the wattage increase on the DL200, as reported by users on forums, pushes double the volume out of the headphones amp (I'm guessing that's also impedance dependent). I will test it myself when I receive it.
Any thoughts on DL200 vs Fiio K7?
As I said I haven't tried the DL200 yet, but if it really is an improved C200, as all user reports seem to suggest. Then imo it's better than the K7.
The FiiO K9 Pro ESS is obviously better, but that's almost $1400 and that actually has real balanced headphones output.
I mean, better how? Both are arguably better than human hearing can detect. It really comes down to which one looks nicer/has outputs you want.
Does the DL come with an AU plug?
It would, I ordered an SMSL-SU9 once from Amazon and it did (but returned it).
Are these good for bluetooth headphones? Was doing some research into DACs for bluetooth headphones recently, sort of came to the conclusion great for music bad for movies, videos, games due to audio delay. Seems like a bit of an arbitrary thing, especially if pairing them with Sony XM4s completely pointless even.
Got an old pair of Audio Technica ATH-AD700s, the originals with the purple open back casing and wondering do I give those a shot but kinda love the wireless nature of the Sonys. Wondering if DACs etc. are even worth it for bluetooth headsets on a PC these days. Thoughts are appreciated!
Completely useless for Bluetooth in the majority of cases. Definitely in your case with the XM4s for example, they do their own DSP inside the headphones, so the source doesn't really matter because the headphones do their own processing inside.
God I miss my AD700s, I had them between 2007 and 2011 or 12. Loved them. Don't think you need any of these DAC/AMPs to drive them though, you won't get much out of them, as they are fairly old and not really up to today's standards. They were also very easy to drive from what I remember, so you can run them through even a simple Apple Dongle for example. And you can get the Apple audio dongle via USB C or Lightning, depending on your phone.
Thanks for the info!
On the other hand, are there any wireless headphones where this all becomes relevant and audio quality leaps forward?
Or does it just go back to the tried and true wired headphones are where it is at, and anything wireless fits in that old gaming headset gimmick which originally drew me to the AD700s in 2008 or whatever it was as a teen for gaming…? I feel like I could easily fall down the audiophile rabbit hole, but I only really use my headset for occasionally music while working or gaming these days and rarely do that anymore.
At this point I have also started started looking at my TV setup again but all of that immediately hits a higher cost. Monitor Audio Bronze 500s, a SVS PB1000 sub (it was way bigger than expected lol) and a Yamaha RX-V6A. Now wondering do I need a centre channel… surround sound with running the cables just seems a pain in the ass, not my place, so doesn't make sense right now sadly.
@Powermaniac: Walk into an Addicted to Audio store, there's a few around Australia and listen to a bunch of stuff.
But if you prefer wireless and want an upgrade, check out the Focal Bathys. And no it does not need a DAC/AMP or anything, as the processing is also done inside of it.
They have it on special:
https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/focal-bathys-wireles…
^ I wouldn't just buy it straight away, you have the XM4, take it with you. Walk into the store and compare them. Listen to the Focal Bathys, same songs you usually listen to, and go back and forth with the XM4 and see if you believe it is a worthy upgrade in your opinion.
stay away from this rabbit hole LOL
@ThatsCheap: Good advice to go and audition some stuff.
To be fair if you have the xm4 getting another Bluetooth set wouldn't be a huge upgrade. Those Bathys may sound slightly better (with possibly some quality of life features not as good.
ANC and Bluetooth headphones/in ears still won't really come close to some good wired headphones/IEMs in terms of detail, instrument separation, layering etc. So I'd try and listen to the 6xx (or similar) with a DAC/amp combo too.
This is assuming you will use them at home/desk setup, not only for portables.
was very close to pulling the trigger on the dl200 last night. thankfully now all the codes are expired 😌.
will need to be content with my O2 for a little bit longer.
If it were a dac/amp that does bluetooth RX and multi-device TX, would have jumped on it.
There's always specials. Black Friday, Christmas period, New years, Chinese new years, etc
Ask me in around a month what I think of the DL200 and how it compares to the CL200
SMSL C200 is the best one and even at a cheaper price. It's crazy. I don't even know why you would pick the topping over the smsl
Balanced outputs
The topping doesn't have balanced, smsl does. I don't understand your message
They're both fake balanced FYI. Even the DX5 and DX7, and all these SMSL sub $1K are fake balanced outputs. They're not "real" balanced. It's just for convenience and what you can plug into, that's it.
@ThatsCheap: The topping doesn't have balanced output. Are you saying its not balanced inside the DAC? Because that could be true but when you look at the measurements it's still better because It will eliminate the noise from the cable.
Sorry i read your message the other way around. Yes i agree with you lol
What would be a good upgrade for some focal clear's where I'd actually hear the difference? Currently using a Schiit Magni/Modi stack
Get a Gustard x16, I noticed a lot of detail in my system with HD800
One step up is R2R
No. Keep what you have.
I figured as much
Get a portable dongle DAC,
and for that R-2R sound,
try the Cayin RU6 or RU7.
( I have the RU6 and the balanced output is pretty good,
but I sold my Focal Clear, as I didn't like that much )
What was the reason? I heard people say that clear sound comes from within your head
I found the Focal Clear
poorly constructed (fragile plastic headband),
pads wear out too easily,
a bit heavy,
open back (lacks privacy),
not as enjoyable as IEM (this is where the sound comes inside your head).
.
I have now settled on a couple of IEMs (Sennheiser IE600 and ThieAudio Monarch II ),
but recently listened to about 10 minutes of a pair of Meze headphones,
and have been smitten by them ever since,….but the price :'-)
@whyisave: Thanks. I think your IEM game is strong. I have simply put a full stop on headphone listening at HD800 :)
I tried IEM but I feel they cause fatigue too early, Mojo plus S12, and a cheap Chifi stuff
@sqheaven: Darko just did a very good video on all those portable options. The IE600 and IE900 seem very good. Shame my ear cana l isn't kind for IEMs, over ears only (and buds).
@G-rig: I might consider buying ie600 during the next sennheiser sales, I couldn't sort out my student edge account in time. Tbh, my ears also don't like IEMs, I sold S12 and now waiting to get something else.
IEM game is strong
…and to think, I only got into this in Lockdown #2,
with a pair of cheap $50+ IEMs (Brand: CCA ),
and 4 or 5 IEMs later, I'm in the kilobuck territory, ha.
It was a blind purchase of the Moondrop Blessing 2, which tipped me over.
Still, I am on the 'lookout' for my endgame IEM,
and scour the net for a cheap 64 Audio , haha
.
IEM but I feel they cause fatigue too early
It all depends on your ears, the tips you have
and most importantly, whether the IEMs have 'vents'.
The Moondrop ones don't vent, but fit the most comfortable for me.
The ThieAudio Monarch is chunky, but they vent well.
(Sony IER-Z1R is the chunkiest IEMs I ever had the pleasure/displeasure of listening to for 10minutes)
.
cheap Chifi stuff
…cheap and gets you 80 - 90% of the way "there".
I recommend the Moondrop Blessing 3,
as the best ChiFi for price and tuning,
but it depends on what sound-signature you like.
Blessing 3 is on sale now on AliExpress.
( I demo'd the Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk,
Variations, Blessing 3 recently in Singapore )
Any amp+dac stack combos on sale worth taking a look at? Alternatively, any DAC/AMPs that take RCA input? I'd grab this deal, but the lack of RCA input means I can't easily hook it up to a turntable.
you might need to get a seprate amp. you dont need a dac for a turntable. just a phono preamp and an amp
To clarify, the DAC part is for connecting to my PC: ideally I'd have both turntable and PC linked to the one amp so I don't have too much clutter
i cant think of any but i know you will find one. many dac amps are made to stack so it wont take up much space
So on the budget end I've found the Fiio K5 Pro ESS at 90 USD before tax and coupons, which features RCA input. For the more traditional amp/dac stack, I've found:
- ifi zen air dac 85.66US + ifi zen can amp 154.37USD
- topping e30ii dac and l30ii amp for 131.12USD each, or both for 262.24USD with RCA cables
- (not ali) JDS Labs Atom Amp+ and DAC+ for 243.72USD shipped
Question is if the separate amp/dacs are worth that much more than the dac/amp combos in this deal, and whether the amp in the K5 Pro is adequate for turntable listening?
Generally speaking seperate components are better, but why not do dac first with a half decent headphone stage, may be good enough (and or add an amp after). Lot of options perhaps someone else can chime in.
Would an an analogue to digital converter work? (I have no idea what these do to the audio quality)
https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005005630269962.html?spm=a2g…
This is now $269 after a $30 coupon (Base: $299). Unless im getting ripped…
Oh they reduced the coupon now. It was $45 before
And…. the $45 coupon is back, so back to $254 on amazon.
Last June I got it for 191aud there.
Any recommendations for an amp with wifi too for streaming Spotify etc? Powering ceiling speakers
have you got equipment now? you can add a wiim mini or pro. that should be on sale now or black friday. they will keep making better updates and hardware.
Been checking out the Acrylic A50 or maybe Fosi T10. Can't justify the price for Yamaha WMA50. I was reading about the new wiim amp, though can't find it on sale anywhere.
thats a prototype i think. i hope its out soon. it will smash all 3 of those. the app is so easy to use and you can bypass it with spotify connect
Staff on forum say it'll be out by Black Friday. Though obviously that may differ for us here.
I got a wiim pro recently and I've been really happy with it. It's paired with a dx3 via optical, driving Yamaha fs160 floor standing speakers. Dx3 is well underpowered in this application but it's doing ok for now.
I don't have a big issue with seperate components especially in these tiny footprints.
@Mentok: Raspberry pi is the other option for a good steamer if you can get one for a decent. Mind you I built that before the wiim was around but more than happy with it and added a 7" touch screen. Cool for now playing and handy for the controls sometimes. Using volumio.
No equipment yet, thinking Yamaha NSIC600 speakers
nice. i dont know much about speakers but i hope they work well
in ceilings
Anyone know if I can somehow get c200 or dl200 to work with my presonus io24?
I use the interface for my xlr mic and monitoring sometimes.
My current headphone audio plug route is
pc > io24 usb c > 2x 1/4” io24 balanced out converted into 2x rca input > atom+ > dt1990
Ideally I keep the io24 in my setup since I really like the xlr mic quality in, but perhaps a meze empyrean is on the horizon so if the dl200 combo works out well with it then I’ll give up the io24 and stick to usb mics
Good on you for posting for a good USB Dac amplifier deal. I currently have a Fiio that I purchased for around $100. The ones you posted are more high end/audiophile compared to mine.
buy it then!
I'm still loving the Loxjie P20 and it's considered "budget"
well dam… I was about to pick up the JBS Atom+ later this week but now this got me thinking lol
For anyone wondering SMSL C200 imo is better than DX3 Pro+, it's also better than DX5 which is twice the price, and while not technically better, I still prefer it to the Topping DX7+ which is around $1000. It's also better than most of the Fiio's that are under $1K
The newly released SMSL DL200 is twice as powerful as the C200, and although I haven't tested it yet. Yesterday with the discounts on AliExpress I purchased it for $264 AUD. So not far off here. If it's just a better C200 with the same sound characteristics, I'd say it's the best bang for buck DAC/AMP combo under $1K
Their own reported measurements seem to suggest it's spectacular, so we'll see. By their own measurements it outperforms the SMSL M500 MKIII, which is $765 on Amazon.
My DL200 is arriving late November, early December. I look forward to listening to it.