Convince Me NOT to Buy an iPhone 15 Pro/Pro Max

Faro on 04/10/2023 - 14:24
Last edited 04/10/2023 - 14:55 by 1 other user

I've seen a few videos and reviews and specsheets regarding what the iPhone 15 pro/pro Max can do as a video camera and, quite frankly, it's perhaps the only time in my life I've seen mobile phone footage and been convinced it looks close enough TV/cinema quality.

The reason for this post is that I'm looking for a decent camera to mess around with for the purpose of making short films or just general shooting of nature/holidays etc.

I've never owned an iPhone and don't want to switch from android to iPhone IF there's a decent enough 4k24fps video camera for around the same price or cheaper that delivers comparable or better image quality

TLDR;
Want a good film camera with comparable or greater quality, for the price of (or less than) a new iPhone.

Mobile Apple Mobile Phone

Comments

  • dylanando on 04/10/2023 - 14:25
    +44

    can you afford it?
    If yes, buy one
    if not, dont buy one
    x

    • Faro on 04/10/2023 - 14:49
      +1

      I could use that logic on a dedicated camera though

      • HeWhoKnows on 05/10/2023 - 17:45
        +1

        Have you considered the iPhone 14 Pro for alot less money?
        It has an excellent camera setup.

        But what Android phone are you using that would warrant a move to an iPhone?

        • Faro on 05/10/2023 - 18:12
          +2

          A Poco X3.

          Yes, I considered a 14, but they were still very expensive and packing certain camera features present in the 15.

          Anyway I ended up following the recommendation of another comment and talking to JB about a deal for the Panasonic Lumix g9.

          It does everything I'm looking for, so I no longer need to worry about the switch to apple

          • yy89 on 09/10/2023 - 10:28

            @Faro: Hopefully you are getting the G9 II, released Sept 2023, and not the G9 released 2017.

            The amount of R&D and product development that goes into the iPhone is mind boggling, and that's why it gives several dedicated cameras a run for it's money.

            If you are looking for a dedicated camera, there is other alternatives to benchmark against rather than the iPhone.

            If you want a all-in-one, it's hard to go wrong with it.

            • Faro on 09/10/2023 - 10:40

              @yy89: Why would I get the $3000+ mkII that hasn't been released yet?

              And why would you intentionally make this comment, likely knowing that that is not what I have done just to praise the iPhone AFTER it is clear I've already made my decision

              People on the site are f***ing oblivious

  • dcep on 04/10/2023 - 14:27
    +15

    overheating problem ?

    • colossus on 05/10/2023 - 09:31
      +7

      There's been some (usual) alarmist reporting here but the exact cause and fix is yet to be known. I would wait to see the resolution for the issue. If you really want this phone, it MAY be worth waiting for the iPhone 16 when the overheating problem will certainly be resolved.

      ATM I'd have a small concern, Apple could, via software patch, reduce performance of the phone in certain circumstances to address the issue.

      • barcer on 05/10/2023 - 10:30

        As with any new phone, I'd recommend waiting at least until the first couple of OS releases to hit before buying, so you can see what has been fixed/still needs to be fixed, before handing over your hard-earned.

      • digitalbath on 05/10/2023 - 12:11
        +1

        I’ve had a 15pro since launch day and have no overheating issues at all.

        • HeWhoKnows on 05/10/2023 - 17:59

          Maybe a user problem

        • MrBeast on 05/10/2023 - 19:32

          Same here :) no problem at all

        • Korban Dallas on 06/10/2023 - 21:06
          +1

          How ) what do you use your phone mate

          Circumstances differ.

        • daoddv on 08/10/2023 - 09:19

          I dont have overheating problem but my boss does. We both cannot not using ip15pro at least until new update, mine one has typing and copy/paste issues.

          Typing experience on iOS17 is way more than the worst. Delay about 0.5s, missing words, auto correct words, so I have to type again and again, it is more often for FB messenger, I found that part of it because of the messenger theme. I have double checked all settings, the same as my old phone.
          Image copy and paste issues from previous model: took a screenshot > choose copy and delete > paste on the app, the app will freeze (I had this issue half year ago on my old one, fixed after restart the phone, but not this time only fixed temporarily).

      • jerjergege on 05/10/2023 - 12:14

        The exact cause is aparantly using the camera for a period of time, then charging, or both using camera while charging.

        • Hangryuman on 05/10/2023 - 18:01

          as I read - it was 3 apps like Uber, Instagram and something else

    • m44n1 on 07/10/2023 - 15:31
      +1

      This has been confirmed by Apple to be a software problem and was triggered by 3rd party apps like Instagram. iOS 17.0.3 was said to address the problem, don't know for sure yet because my 15 pro hasn't arrived yet lol so I'll see if it's true.

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 04/10/2023 - 14:29
    +7

    15 pro

    The reason for this post is that I'm looking for a decent camera to mess around with for the purpose of making short films

    14 pro?

    New jeans ETA clip was filmed with it

    As for dedicated cameras with video , I vote Panasonic g9 and a lens to suit your style. G9 is discontinued now I believe, so keep an eye out for run out stock or second hand

    • Faro on 04/10/2023 - 14:42

      This is helpful. How old is the G9? And does it shoot 4k? (Also what's its going price if discontinued?)

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 04/10/2023 - 14:55

        2017

        Yes 4K 24fps

        I got mine for a little over 850 a few months ago on amazon au - you ll need a lens too though so that will be another 300 or so minimum

        • Faro on 04/10/2023 - 15:01
          +2

          Just had a look. Amazon have the body only for $1300 currently, but the video quality looks quite good.

          Probably nothing cheap currently, but I'll keep my eye out. This seems a better option over the iPhone currently

        • Faro on 05/10/2023 - 18:13
          +4

          Ended up talking to JB online. Got the G9, a bag and SD card for a little over $1500 delivered. I'm pleased enough with that even if it has been cheaper in the past

          • 2025 on 05/10/2023 - 18:24

            @Faro: Nice! Now time to pick some lenses :)

          • Jimothy Wongingtons on 05/10/2023 - 18:39

            @Faro: Good on ya
            Welcome to g9 gang

            What lens did you get? (You will need a lens…)

            • Faro on 05/10/2023 - 18:41

              @Jimothy Wongingtons: It came with a lens. 12-60mm kit

              I'm sure I have a lot to learn about lenses, but that's part of the fun I suppose.

              What should be some others to keep on my radar?

              • Jimothy Wongingtons on 05/10/2023 - 19:00
                +2

                @Faro: Oh? That’s a decent deal then!

                Olympus 12-40
                Panasonic 14-140
                Panasonic 12-35

                Are on my watch list

                • Faro on 05/10/2023 - 19:08
                  +1

                  @Jimothy Wongingtons: So just double checked and it actually came to $1593 with delivery.

                  This is what JB price matched.

                  Here is their listing.

                  Then they added a lowepro bag for 45ish and 128gb SD card for 38

                  • samyall on 07/10/2023 - 09:52

                    @Faro: Olympus 12-40 f2.8 PRO is the way to go. I have it for stills and it is incredible. Most Youtubes use it for vlogging as it is just so versatile. Unfortunately doesn't come on sale much.

                    • Faro on 07/10/2023 - 09:59

                      @samyall: Obviously this is something I'll have to learn, but which lenses are compatible with the Panasonic cameras? And which ones need adapters?

                      • samyall on 07/10/2023 - 10:37

                        @Faro: The G9 has a Micro Four Thirds mount which started out as a collaboration between Panasonic and Olympus so that means that all modern Olympus lenses will work (side note: Olympus' imaging division has rebranded to OM Systems so new lenses will have that name). Panasonic also has a full frame mount which wont work (without an adapter, but also those are bigger/heavier/pricier so I wouldnt recommend using them).

                        There are also a few other companies that make lenses for MFT but these tend to be for pretty niche applications. Check out Venus Optics for some. I have a Ultrawide manual lens from them.

                        For video though you'll likely want to stay first party (i.e. Olympus/OM Systems/Panasonic) as those lenses will have the best autofocus and image stabilisation.

                        Both manufactures have a PRO range which is better but more expensive.

                • Faro on 09/10/2023 - 12:07

                  @Jimothy Wongingtons: So another update,
                  JB were supposed to include a battery grip free as a bonus when purchasing the g9 (RRP of $599), but when I placed the order there was no nearby stock.

                  Went into my local JB to explain the situation and they've arranged to transfer in a battery grip to add to the order retroactively.

                  So more value 👍

                  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 09/10/2023 - 12:21

                    @Faro: i wouldnt value the grip at 599 but 1593 for the kit with a 12-60, a bag, a sd card and the authentic grip is pretty great.
                    how is the camera so far?

    • Faro on 04/10/2023 - 14:48
      +5

      Also the 14 pro is still pretty damn expensive for a superceded model

      • Kangal on 05/10/2023 - 18:25
        +7

        You shouldn't buy it for this one major reason:
        TSMC 3nm / Same Architecture

        (see bottom of text for TLDR)

        rant:
        Talking about the processors, you need to realise that these are VERY important. Just compare the iPhone 5C versus the iPhone 5S, same release date, massively different support and periods. Apple made a huge upgrade moving from the iPhone Xmas to the iPhone 11 Max. They made an okay upgrade to the 12 Max, and the two architectures are very similar. With the iPhone 13 Max they used a refined architecture and the upgrades are obvious. There was no upgrades to the 14 Max (just overclocking).

        The iPhone has been on the same architecture for too long now, with the 14/13/12 being similar to the 11. A part of that reason is because Apple has been so far beyond Android devices for many years now, that they could afford stagnation, and the other part is covid affecting the lithography manufacturers and the professionals designing the chip hardware. So Apple was SUPPOSED to be introducing a new architecture with the iPhone 15 (A17) chipset. On top of that we were SUPPOSED to see a huge improvement (+30%) to performance at the same (-5%) power envelope.

        This did not happen. The A17 chipset is only 6-9% faster than the A16, and uses a bit more power. That's not an upgrade, it's just an overclock. So if the chipset is a sidegrade, then why did Apple release it anyway? It's because the iPhone 15 Max has many other small/differences to differentiate and justify itself on the market.

        But why was the A17 such a sidegrade?
        I think it's because TSMC is having major issues. We don't know this because it's all covered under trade-secrets and they have their reputation/shareholders to keep happy. Yet they cannot build the chips that they promised (there's leaked builds of the A17 that went unreleased). In a technical sense, the released 3nm is leaking-current, so each 3nm chipset has to have their voltages increased for stability. That means higher power draw negating all the advantages this advanced node was made for.

        Now, TSMC was attempting to release 3nm back a 1.5 years but their covid delays, had it come to this point. But we never assumed their wafers would be this immature. So it's wrong for me to say, like a gambler, but it is almost guaranteed that in the next 12 months they will fix the wafer quality issue. That means we could see the +30% improvement that TSMC promised. If that combines with a new architecture that has been very very delayed….

        (TLDR)
        ….High probability we might see this:
        Late 2024 iPhone 16
        No major changes to anything
        New A18-Pro chipset with big performance/efficiency upgrade compared to the A17/A16/A15.
        In the next 5-Years we will see Apple drop software support for the iPhone 15, but the iPhone 16 will get an additional 3-Years of support. If you value your money/longevity this is a compelling reason, just like it happened with the 5S, then the 6S+, then the 11 Max. It's because the big hardware performance uplift of the chipset is able to handle the newer/heavier builds of Webpages, Apps, and Operating System (yes, software gets LESS efficient over time, thank big corporations).

        • JimB on 06/10/2023 - 13:54

          Interesting read.

          When you say iPhone 11 Max, do you mean 11 Pro/Pro Max?

          I been using a 11 Pro Max for the past 2 years. I got it has a hand me down when it was 2 years ago after my Samsung died. It was suppose to be a short term while I replaced my Samsung, but I never went back to Android. Still rocking the hand me down phone.

          I must admit, the 11 Pro Max still feels snappy and quick with all the apps that I use even though it's 4 years old, battery life is still good. I can see myself using it for another year or two unless Apple releases a new OS that will deliberately slow the phone down.

          I can't however justify the $2k for the latest top model iPhone.

    • Korban Dallas on 06/10/2023 - 21:08

      Didn't they do something like this like 5 years ago but was heavy post processing and didn't tell anyone in their ad?

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 06/10/2023 - 21:20

        This clip had a notice in the clip that says commissioned by Apple and had been post processed, in the bts shows it being used with commercial gimbal too - to be fair there is a lot of action involved.

    • spaceflight on 08/10/2023 - 22:54

      New jeans ETA clip was filmed with it

      This article and video is probably somewhat relevant still

      Those 'Shot on iPhone' ads are not what they seem
      https://m.dpreview.com/videos/7189460551/video-those-shot-on…

  • jugsy on 04/10/2023 - 14:29
    +7

    I'd just buy a gopro rather than migrate. The camera is nice sure, but is it worth finding new versions of your android apps, retraining muscle memory, etc

    • Faro on 04/10/2023 - 14:43
      +2

      Yeah that's the biggest headache for me. I have an iPhone as my work phone and I use it as little as possible because navigating it still doesn't feel natural - even after many months

      • pharkurnell on 04/10/2023 - 18:53
        +1

        I have an iPhone as my work phone

        then why not use that? Why do you need a new one?

        • Faro on 04/10/2023 - 18:59
          +6

          I don't own my work phone. It is for work.

      • 900dollaridoos on 07/10/2023 - 09:43

        If you dont like headaches, dont buy a gopro. Easily the worst consumer experience of my life. Almost 2 years later and its still left a bad taste in my mouth when i think about it.

  • MS Paint on 04/10/2023 - 14:29
    -7

    Are you about to head overseas?
    Do you drive an EV?

  • spackbace on 04/10/2023 - 14:29
    +3

    Buy a GoPro

    • Faro on 04/10/2023 - 14:44
      -2

      I've not seen any GoPro footage that looks cinematic

      • spackbace on 04/10/2023 - 14:52
        +2

        Funny, I've seen lots of environmental shots that look cinematic.

        How good are you at making movies though, that's the question? The camera can only do so much

        • Faro on 04/10/2023 - 15:03

          Probably awful. Hence not looking to spend heaps. I just want something that won't be immediately obsolete. Someone above mentioned the Panasonic g9 and it seems to have everything I'm after and for a cheaper price.

          • spackbace on 04/10/2023 - 15:05
            +1

            @Faro: All depends on use case

            I was very happy with the GoPro on a recent holiday. Even used the star model to capture the night sky, and it did a damn good job. The wider FOV suits environmental shots, but not suited to up close portrait stuff.

            Also, using a small tripod (I used a gorilla tripod), and your phone as a viewfinder, made life a lot easier sometimes.

            But hey, everyone has their own use-case, so just depends

          • dcep on 04/10/2023 - 15:34

            @Faro:

            How good are you at making movies though, that's the question? The camera can only do so much
            Probably awful. Hence not looking to spend heaps.

            If you're wanting to learn by spending the least, then have a look at EOS-M with Magic Lantern.

            Yes, the 1st gen 2012 EOS-M. It can shoot 4k/5k RAW. It has a lot of propriety accessories to setup as filming rig.

            That's only if you're wanting to learn making videos. Not meant for point and shoot.

          • MediocreMichael on 05/10/2023 - 10:56

            @Faro: I’ve had a G9 since they were available, and it has been an insanely good, durable camera. I’ve used it for photo predominantly, but also for video. Such good stabilisation, and with good Olympus or Panasonic glass it’s wonderful. You’d be pretty safe getting one second hand too, if you wanted to save cash

      • aliceisstupid on 05/10/2023 - 00:23

        Pretty confident that there is substantially more GoPro footage in films than iPhone footage lol

        Source: partner works in the film industry

  • bmxr on 04/10/2023 - 14:37

    A Sony Xperia I IV/V will do comparable 4K/24FPS video for half the price of an iPhone 15. Only limitation is that it doesn't work on Telstra and you can't get VoWiFi in Australia.

    • Faro on 04/10/2023 - 14:45
      +4

      Those drawbacks make me want to move towards a standalone camera rather than a comparable phone if it will have limitations as a phone

      • Macgyver on 05/10/2023 - 10:56

        I believe you can get 5G and VoWiFI working on these phones, but it is a lot of messing around/rooting android.

        • bmxr on 05/10/2023 - 18:24

          Correct, you can. It's not for the inexperienced though. In fact it's not for the experienced either. There's only one user I'm aware of on WP that has gone through with the whole rooting and hacking away. The rest of us just use a combination of hacks and apps like Shizuku and PixelIMS. I'm still very happy with the phone as a Vodafone user anyway.

          • Macgyver on 14/10/2023 - 13:13
            +1

            @bmxr: I managed to get them both working on my 1 ii, but the connection is still quite poor.
            Not sure if it's a modem configuration issue or Boost are rubbish.

        • idonotknowwhy on 07/10/2023 - 20:37
          +1

          I've got the Xperia V. Best phone I've had.

          Out of the box, 5G and VoLTE work on voda and optus networks (I switched from Telstra, which only had 4G which dropped to 3G during voice calls).
          No VoWiFI though.

          • bmxr on 14/10/2023 - 22:10

            @idonotknowwhy: Agreed, most underrated phone on the market! Flagship specs, all for under $1,500.

            I've had an Xperia 1i, 1iii, 1iv and just a matter of time until I get a v or wait for the vi.

            And Macgyver, yes your comment about the modem is correct, they do have weak signal compared to other phones regardless of provider.

            • Macgyver on 19/10/2023 - 11:57

              @bmxr: Which is odd because the modem in this phone was used in many phones and they work fine?

  • kerfuffle on 04/10/2023 - 14:38
    +5

    Wait for Pixel 8 Pro to be announced overnight

    • Faro on 04/10/2023 - 14:46

      Pixel 6 and 7 short films on YouTube have looked distinctly worse than comparable iPhone shorts and also have that very obvious "phone" feel. I've had the 8 reveal vaguely on my radar, but won't be holding my breath

    • simplystu on 04/10/2023 - 21:30

      Pixel 8 Pro is also what I'd go with … over an Iphone 15.

      OP … you also talk about shooting short films - ESP of a watchable/good quality.
      IMO - the key to that (even with the older tech) - is to use some sort of stabiliser … rather than a phone held just in your hand.

  • boomramada on 04/10/2023 - 14:43
    -1

    Just buy it. I know you want to.

    • Faro on 04/10/2023 - 14:47
      -2

      Ehhh

      • boomramada on 05/10/2023 - 08:09
        -1

        People who asking, "Convince Me NOT to Buy an iPhone" or "iPhone or Samsung" end up buying iPhone anyway. why suffer? just go buy one.

        • Faro on 05/10/2023 - 13:39
          -2

          Because I don't want an iPhone. I want its camera. I feel like that's been made pretty clear?

          • SpicyStew on 06/10/2023 - 00:24
            -1

            @Faro: Not as clear as what the iphone camera can do, cinamatic clear is what you're missing out on.

          • xsacha on 06/10/2023 - 22:14
            -2

            @Faro: A bit weird because iPhones aren't known for having good cameras. Usually the Chinese brands like Huawei, Oppo, Honor and Xiaomi outperform it.

            They have rankings here: https://www.dxomark.com/smartphones/
            Plenty of comparison shots as well.

            15 Pro Max has performed better than usual. That 7 month old Huawei is apparently still better. There wouldn't be much difference in that top 10 either.
            Probably comes down to them comparing 15 Pro Max on launch day whereas other phones don't appear until months later.

  • shaneb on 04/10/2023 - 14:45
    +12

    I've recently moved to an iPhone 14 Pro Max after running Android phones since Android 2.0. Absolutely not enjoying iOS. The hardware is nice, but so limited in what you can do.

    • Faro on 04/10/2023 - 14:47

      That is also a part of my hesitancy. In saying that, I don't really know if I use my phone for that many different things and I don't think I really use that many apps, but the muscle memory thing is a significant factor

      • shaneb on 04/10/2023 - 14:53
        -1

        The things I have issues with are that you can't adjust volume of the different audio source (ie. calls, browser, apps, etc…). There is only a general volume adjust or a mute switch. Charging the phone at night, there is a big loud docking sound which you can't disable (again need to use the mute switch), so if you go to bed after your partner, you end up waking them. 3rd party apps that use the camera, don't generally work real well for macro focussing, so scanning QR codes from a 3rd party app is impossible. Before having an iPhone I kept hearing that they have much better apps than Android, but really they are pretty much identical. I prefer Google Maps, but it is quite cut down on iOS. There are probably lots more issues that I have, but will leave it there.

        • coxjon on 04/10/2023 - 14:57

          iPhone 15 solves your mute switch woes with the action button. Set up a shortcut to mute it at night then it won’t make a sound when you charge it

          • shaneb on 04/10/2023 - 15:00

            @coxjon: Thanks. That's nice, but how hard would it be to have a software setting so that it's backwards compatible with all phones suitable for that iOS version?

            • coxjon on 04/10/2023 - 15:20
              +1

              @shaneb: Agreed. I’ve always wanted my phone to turn OFF silent when connected to CarPlay

              • jingy on 04/10/2023 - 19:10

                @coxjon: That shouldn’t be hard to set up in the shortcuts app, automation tab

                • coxjon on 04/10/2023 - 19:36

                  @jingy: I don’t have an iPhone 15

        • Randolph Duke on 05/10/2023 - 10:24

          Independent volume across apps is shite, although calls & ring tone volume are independent to media playback.

    • Korban Dallas on 06/10/2023 - 21:11

      That's the apple bubble for you. Jailbreak?

  • Farrba on 04/10/2023 - 15:03
    +3

    even if we can buy this through our business, still think its overpriced.

  • sumyungguy on 04/10/2023 - 15:15
    +1

    As you already have a phone, get decent camera first. Sony ZV series cameras are popular with vloggers, alongside your phone camera where more discretion is needed.

  • WreckTangle on 04/10/2023 - 15:39
    -1

    Android users will hate you.

    • ihfree on 04/10/2023 - 15:51
      +1

      Meh, most won't care. Fanbois might hate you… or imagine others hating you.

  • Fredfloresjr on 04/10/2023 - 15:40
    -5

    NO ANDROID. don't get fooled by their 100000 megapixel 1biiilllion zoom. Have you seen the quality? meh.

    Go get a Gopro.

    • Ruddaga on 04/10/2023 - 17:51
      -4

      I mean my Android phone takes better pics than Apple phones (so much so that my apple friends always get me to be the photographer) but sure, show that brain washed bias.

      I will agree the zoom above 30 is dog poop though.

      • diss on 04/10/2023 - 20:48

        show that brain washed bias

        Could say the same about you. Not everyone who disagrees is “brainwashed”. I’ve observed the opposite from recent side-by-side comparisons, the iPhone looking less processed with better colours. And now Android is adding AI detail that isn’t there (see moon pics). Either way the difference in picture quality between the best couple of phones, iPhone being one of them, is not large enough to worry about IMO…

        • Ruddaga on 04/10/2023 - 21:52

          Except I'd happily get an Iphone….

          When they stop releasing bare minimum incremental upgrades on a yearly basis and I'm not loyal to any particular brand, I just want the actual best I can get. I remember buying a few Iphones in a row and just being like - wtf… this is the same damn phone.

          This years major upgrade: USB C :O

          This clip sums it up best: https://ifunny.co/video/apple-saying-the-same-thing-for-14-y…

          I was playing around with a flip and fold the other day thinking, can't wait for Apple to release their version in 4 years and claim they invented it.

          • diss on 05/10/2023 - 00:54
            +1

            @Ruddaga: Well at this stage it’s a pretty refined product… not sure what people are expecting when they complain about slowed “innovation”, that’s bound to happen until there’s some sort of paradigm shift like touch phones. Pretty easy to complain about but not easy to invent worthwhile substantial change.

            • SpainKing on 05/10/2023 - 14:09

              @diss: It would be pretty innovative if they included a headphone jack and SIM card reader and a decent case in the box. And if they changed that shitty white material they use to coat their charging cords that always breaks

              • diss on 05/10/2023 - 19:47

                @SpainKing: Lol no, get real, if Apple did that and they or anyone called it innovative they would be endlessly mocked. You basically proved my point by missing the point and not naming anything new… you specifically want OLD stuff. A case is a bad idea, not everyone wants a case and those who do want to choose one. Often third party. Why pay for one included? Headphone jack needs to be let go of. Most people have already. They do take SIM cards (though they are also antiquated).

                • SpainKing on 05/10/2023 - 22:25

                  @diss: My view is that refining a product shouldn't make it lose functionality it used to have. That isn't very innovative. They would be mocked for trying to call it innovative by bringing them back but I don't believe that's a reason for them to continue not including them

                  Their newest 'innovations' have been a dynamic island to cover their camera, a better camera/chip, action button and USB C charging. These feel like the most incremental upgrades the company could make to entice customers to buy a new phone. And they do this every year. And the only reason they updated their crappy lightning port is because they had to conform with EU regulations

                  By the same logic you've used for a case not everyone wants a charging cord, but they include one with a shitty white material that degrades and splits quickly. People who buy a new cord often buy a non-Apple branded one because they're less expensive/fragile. Why pay for the one included

                  Just because you don't use headphone jacks doesn't mean they need to be let go of. If they're so useless why do they continue to include them in their Macbooks? It seems they haven't actually let them go (unlike the SIM card reader in most countries)

                  To repeat, the SIM card reader has been removed in the new iPhone model for most countries. I also made a mistake where I meant to say SD card reader (or microSD/NM) instead of SIM, though I suspect you will still consider these antiquated for whatever reason

                  • diss on 06/10/2023 - 01:22

                    @SpainKing: This is simply whinging for the sake of whinging and unrelated to “innovation”. Cutting edge tech shouldn’t be weighed down by hardware support for outdated things, and regardless of the inevitably smaller yearly updates iPhones are at the top of the market. Don’t buy the new thing if you’re attached to the old thing, simple. Tech needs to move on to be innovative by definition. Like it or not, wired headphones are outdated. They are not the future, barely the present. The fact is that a headphone jack is wasted space to the vast majority of people today – a valuable commodity on such a compact device. I’ll tell you why the MacBook has a headphone jack, if you’re actually interested. It’s because a lot of people compose music or work with other audio on Macs and there is a justifiable use case in the form of studio headphones etc. Not true for phones.

                    SIM cards are supported in countries outside the US btw. To repeat, they support a physical SIM in all countries outside the US. eSIM is better though.

                    What I said about a case is perfectly sound and the optional accessory is not comparable to a cheap but vital cord (mine are in perfectly good condition btw). People who want a case want one of varying quality and form that looks how they want it to look, vs… a cord. You’re literally arguing for the OPPOSITE of innovation and complaining about cord quality. The effort some people will go to whinge about Apple lol.

                    • SpainKing on 09/10/2023 - 20:31

                      @diss: Whilst I love a good whinge I disagree

                      Cutting edge tech shouldn’t be weighed down by hardware support for outdated things

                      Why does it have to weigh it down? You could just make the phone bigger as phone companies like to do. Removing components doesn't mean the people at R and D go "Wow, look at all this space we have to stuff full of the newest cloud technology." If they were being truly innovative, moving forward and discarding the old tech that's outdated, you'd think they'd remove all internal storage not needed for the OS. Just give everyone with an iPhone 128GB of cloud storage for the life of the device with an option to pay for increased storage with each new iteration of iPhone

                      Tech needs to move on to be innovative by definition

                      Past innovations can be forgotten over time when new technology makes the old way outdated or seem superfluous. That's why we don't have a solid understanding of blacksmithing any more and I'm sure it applies to other fields too. Innovation in one area can stifle innovation in another

                      Like it or not, wired headphones are outdated. They are not the future, barely the present.

                      This feels like it conflicts with you saying they are currently in use by people working with music on their Macbooks. How can it be barely the present when they will be using them for the foreseeable future? Just because "the vast majority" of people don't use it doesn't make it outdated. It makes it niche. I'm sure if it was an option more people would use them. People that value audio quality would use them, but they get excluded as their devices don't have the internal storage for their music files, and don't have a headphone jack for their audio device

                      As more companies follow Apple's lead musicians will possibly face the problem of being constrained to using legacy hardware because wireless headphones can't produce an output as good as a physical connection. Perhaps they will become as good at that point or maybe they won't. Another benefit is not having to charge your headphone (could be useful for when you need to use them for extended, uninterrupted periods while not near a charger)

                      SIM cards are supported in countries outside the US btw. To repeat, they support a physical SIM in all countries outside the US. eSIM is better though.

                      Sounds like a US only feature. I'm sure it won't be implemented here. eSIM might be better, I've never used one so I don't want to poo-poo it from the get go

                      What I said about a case is perfectly sound and the optional accessory is not comparable to a cheap but vital cord (mine are in perfectly good condition btw).

                      What about for a charging brick? Or a wireless charger? Arguably more vital than the cord that people use. A case can be cheap and I would also consider it vital (especially in your first few days with a phone, before you have a chance to get a case for it with all the features you prefer. I'm glad your cords have never had issues but if you look online you will find many complaints through Apple's history.

                      You’re literally arguing for the OPPOSITE of innovation and complaining about cord quality

                      I'm literally just saying don't remove features we all know and many still use under the guise of "innovation", really it's just to save or make more money, not to benefit the end-user of the device

                      The effort some people will go to whinge about Apple lol.

                      Not everything they do is good you know? cough Obsolescence OS Updates, suicide nets cough

                      • diss on 10/10/2023 - 20:10

                        @SpainKing: You clearly are whinging for the sake of it, these are contrived and out of touch complaints. “Just make it bigger”? I can see why you’re not designing phones. Have you seen the internals of a iPhone Pro Max? It’s incredibly compact. The space is being used extremely efficiently… for a reason. Of course having a headphone jack (which is quite big) weighs it down in that regard. People don’t want a bloated phone. You miss the point.

                        As I pointed out MacBooks are used for different things than iPhones. Plugging wired studio headphones into a phone is a corner case at best, not true for a machine that audio engineers use for work. It doesn’t conflict with what I was saying at all. It’s a completely different platform. Also, space is not such a valuable resource in a MacBook. What does conflict like I said is your complaint that Apple isn’t innovating with your complaint that Apple should accommodate “niche” use cases from the past when we have replacement technology. That’s not innovation, it’s redundancy, and it costs money among other things. Tech has to move on, and people who can’t move on aren’t the ones buying a brand new iPhone for $2k.

                        eSIM is not a US only feature. You can get it here already. Out of touch and yet you’re complaining about the movement towards eSIM as a standard. No need for a bit of plastic or the hardware to accommodate it. We will lose the SIM tray eventually.

                        Complaining about all the things Apple could include in the box is silly. You could go on and on. A wireless charger? You realise you’d still pay for it right? Just buy a wireless charger. The one you want, like a case. Just buy a case. I don’t want to pay for a wireless charger because I already have one. What a waste.

                        You might be pleased to know that with the introduction of USB C Apple have upgraded the cord to some sort of braided material, so that’s one of your main complaints crossed off.

                        I didn’t say everything Apple does is good. I just don’t think you have real complaints here, especially not in regards to the topic of innovation since what you are complaining about is contradictory to the notion of tech moving forwards.

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