Planning to Travel around The World by Train by Independent Travel - Nothing Organised. Am I Crazy?

GOCAT9 on 25/09/2023 - 21:52

Ok, so my wife and I are up for some "soft-adventure" travel, to travel around the world by train! We are in our late 60s and will be travelling on Australian passports. This is our planned route. Starting in Adelaide, Indian Pacific train to PER, cheap flight to Bali (DPS). Cross to east end of Java. Train to Jakarta, flight over to Singapore. Train to Bangkok. Train to Kunming, China. Train to Beijing. Train to western China and into Kyrgyzstan or Tajikistan. Onward through Uzbekistan, then Kazakhstan. Cross the Caspian sea by boat or fly. Cross Azerbaijan/Armenia into eastern Turkey. Train through Europe to Lisbon, Portugal. Fly to east cost of USA or Canada. Cross USA or Canada by train. Fly to SYD. Indian Pacific back to Adelaide!

ok, some background. None of this will be pre-booked as we can't guarantee being able to be in a particular place on any particular date. The only exception is the train to PER from ADL and the flight to DPS. I consider myself to be a problem solver when travelling, as I expect to have plenty of that. I have travelled for 40 years, on and off, and on every continent on earth. I travel light (14kg, all up weight including my roller bag (Osprey)). I will have full travel insurance, including evacuation and satcom connectivity everywhere. Worldwide travel SIM on iPhone15pro. Travel time is open ended and not fixed, but I believe that it can be done in no more than 3 months comfortably. The idea is to stop for a 1-3 days between train journeys to rest up, buy the next train ticket and see and experience a little of the places that we pass through. We certainly don't want to get off one train onto another!

Now, we live in different times! Many journeys (a la internet) like this would take you through Russia. For Australian's this is a DO NOT TRAVEL country at present. (We do not do DO NOT TRAVEL countries - no insurance!), however, I have checked smarttraveller.gov.au and all the countries I suggested above are ok to travel through as of now (things could change of course). So this itinerary can be totally done by avoiding Russia and Iran.

Visas should not be a huge issue I think as those countries where they must be obtained before entry can be obtained before we leave (eg China). The "stan" countries are VOA to Australians, Europe no problem, same with USA/Canada, just ESTA etc.

We would appreciate and advice/tips etc that you may have if you have done something similar or just long distance train journeys. Cheers.

Travel

Comments

  • MS Paint on 25/09/2023 - 21:55
    +15

    Go for it. Sounds awesome.

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 25/09/2023 - 22:04
      +6

      Yeah not for me, but I can get on board with the enthusiasm.

    • GOCAT9 on 25/09/2023 - 22:56

      Thanks for your encouragement Muzeeb!

  • AustriaBargain on 25/09/2023 - 22:03
    +2

    Train is expensive way to travel but I always wanted to do it. Seems romantic, even by yourself. On a train for days, reading a book, drinking some booze. Weed would make it even better but I guess hard to do when travelling the world…

    • s1Lence on 26/09/2023 - 21:13

      sounds fun but i took a train across norway and it gets stale fast
      hate sitting for hours on end with no room to move, whether it's on a train or a plane

  • Downvoter on 25/09/2023 - 22:11
    +1

    Old boy loves the latest massive iPhone

    • GOCAT9 on 25/09/2023 - 22:57
      +1

      No, not the MAX, the smaller one!!

      • bbinc on 26/09/2023 - 08:42

        Have a spare phone just in case!

        • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 09:40

          That will be the wife’s iPhone!

          • bbinc on 26/09/2023 - 09:42

            @GOCAT9: And some AirTags for other stuff! More weight though.

  • sumyungguy on 25/09/2023 - 22:32

    Sad to see you can't use the Silk Route due to the instability in Russia and Ukraine. I've been booking some rail trips in Europe for November/December so have been waiting for various operator timetables to load. If you're planning on using the many sleeper trains throughout Europe/Asia and prefer the ensuite cabins, advance reservation may be needed as they can book out during busy periods. Otherwise I've found the communal showers to be entirely satisfactory. Have you considered the Great Southern from Brisbane to Adelaide?

    • GOCAT9 on 25/09/2023 - 23:02
      +1

      Yes, we will elect to take sleeper trains wherever possible. If, as you say we can't get one we will prefer to just travel as far as we can during daytime, because I would not like to do overnight travel in a seat (I'm not in my twenties anymore unfortunately!!)

  • WreckTangle on 25/09/2023 - 22:42

    Sounds like a great itinerary. I like unusual ways to travel and once considered a cabin on a container ship.

    • GOCAT9 on 25/09/2023 - 23:03
      +1

      I heard that those are becoming quite popular now, so go for it!!

      • Protractor on 26/09/2023 - 09:03

        Even cheaper if you take the ship sponsored boogie board on the S. American to Australia routes

  • Mokr on 25/09/2023 - 23:07

    I'd suggest at least three days at one destination.

  • altomic on 25/09/2023 - 23:16
    +3

    The Man in Seat 61 is a good train and travel resource

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 09:42

      Great tip, thank you!

  • Eeples on 25/09/2023 - 23:26

    It has an interesting itinerary.

    For some years I was planning around the world..

    Sydney->Auckland->Tahiti (Papeete)->Easter Island->Peru->Ecuador(Galápagos)->Brazil->Northern Africa/Southern Europe->Asia (various)->Sydney

    But always found the Easter Island leg non existent or overly expensive.

    General Advice: The higher north (or south) you travel the shorter the distance when traveling east to west (or west to east).

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 09:46

      I have travelled between Easter Island and Papeete many times in the 80s when I was travelling back and forth between Chile and Australia. That leg was flown by LAN (now LATAM). As far as I know, LATAM still fly that leg. Now of course I just take QF27 non-stop to SCL from SYD.

  • Almost Banned on 25/09/2023 - 23:37

    If you are passing through Azerbaijan/Armenia be careful to avoid Nagorno Karabakh

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 09:47

      Yep! Will be keeping up with the latest info along the way!! Thanks.

  • rumblytangara on 26/09/2023 - 00:13

    Sounds roughly doable. I've not tried anything similar- my off the beaten track travel has been more point to point, or cycling, or busses (rather than well known long distance trains).

    Got full insurance- great.

    Visas for China- you can just turn up in Hong Kong and apply there at CTS (China Travel Service) braches. Last I checked pre-Covid this would take 1-5 days depending on how much you paid. Hazy memories of this, you should verify independently.

    Everything I've heard about Iran is that it's fantastic if you're there, but if you get that stamped in your passport, say goodbye to entering the US.

    Bring earplugs in case they blast horrible music on the trains. Don't do long distance bus trips in the US, they are full of crazy people.

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 09:50

      I didn’t know that about trying to enter US with an Iranian stamp/visa-thanks!

      • Eeples on 26/09/2023 - 11:12

        I’m not sure they stamp passports.

        When I went to Cuba in 2010 they didn’t stamp my passport.

        But you may need to lie on your ESTA.

  • May4th on 26/09/2023 - 07:03

    This sounds very exciting and adventurous
    My question is do you like the train environment / sight seeing potential or is it a necessity due to health issues?
    The legs you describe have significant differences in the experience
    in asia you have to be careful with pickpockets and what not with sleeper trains, and definitely a different comfort level to indian pacific
    in China the bullet trains that feel like our metros are shiny, clean and gets to you A to B very quickly, or you can book the cheaper old style seating/sleeper trains which are usually more dated, noisier and dirtier with smokers everywhere, which will slowly grind along if you like the experience

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 09:55
      +1

      All good points. Yes, I’ve already experienced some of those train comfort changes a few times. I’ll always remember the change in train quality/comfort level when I changed trains at the border between Vietnam and China on a trip from Hanoi to Guilin China, night and day difference!

      I could comment on many “first class” (sic) travel on Indian trains also!!

      • May4th on 26/09/2023 - 09:59

        Amazing, would appreciate it if you can share your experiences tips at the end of the trips!

  • 6079 Smith on 26/09/2023 - 07:29

    Crossing the Caspian will be the hardest part of this as the ferries leave on random schedules and can suffer large delays
    Also you can’t get from Azerbaijan to Armenia or Armenia to Turkey, you’ll have to go through Georgia.

    Seat61 should be a be to sort you out for most of this

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 09:58

      You are spot on. I recently read a website describing how to do this by ferry. You are correct, no real schedule, lots of delays etc. If that’s our experience there are frequent flights across to Baku, only 45mins flight time I believe!

      • 6079 Smith on 26/09/2023 - 10:32

        We gave up and flew Ashgabat to Baku, but then there is the issue of the Turkmen visa which is another challenge.
        I believe you can fly Aktau to Baku
        Personally I'd go China > Kazakh > Kyrgyz > Pamir Highway into Tajik > Uzbek (Samarkand) > Tashkent and then fly to Baku.
        Up to you if you detour to Khiva and Bukhara

  • stickingly on 26/09/2023 - 08:06
    +1

    Love it, I'm jealous!

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 09:59

      ….. then join us!!!

      • stickingly on 26/09/2023 - 10:22

        I plan to do something along these lines, but on a bicycle, however have the minor inconvenience of having to wait a couple years for children to finish school etc.
        Did a lot of bicycle touring when I was younger

        To me part of the fun is not planning ahead and just seeing what the next day throws up

        • rumblytangara on 26/09/2023 - 16:34

          Just don't become the next Heinz Stücke :)

      • Sweet3st on 26/09/2023 - 21:25

        Tempting! Hugely jealous…

  • ForkSnorter on 26/09/2023 - 08:14

    I travelled through Europe by train without pre-booking hotels, and without deciding in advance where I would be 2 days later. I sincerely regret it. I wasted so much time deciding where to go next and trying to book hotels, trying to find hotels, plus I made a few silly decisions. And in the end I ran out of time to see some places I really wanted to see. Booking hotels at the last minute also tends to make hotel stays more expensive and less enjoyable, because cheap hotels and good hotels are often booked out.

    After this experience, I plan all my travel well beforehand, choose good hotels, and stay in each place for 2-3 nights. (Except for tiny villages in the country, because you don’t want to be stuck in a tiny village for 3 days while it’s raining).

    • bbinc on 26/09/2023 - 08:52
      +1

      I’ve done it both ways. OP seems to be an experienced and flexible traveller. The unexpected can lead to really satisfying travel experiences, stories, and friends, but can also create difficult moments. I remember taking an unplanned fishing boat trip from Samos in Greece, to Turkey, getting on a crazy bus, meeting some American military types, staying with them and enjoying getting about with them for a few days. Then some problem solving as OP describes, to get out of there. These days I’m more like you.

    • Hansi on 26/09/2023 - 09:06
      +2

      I see your points in peak travel periods, but found it really nice to not know where I would travel in the next week when I travelled myself. Booked hotels online a few days before when I made up the journey and it worked out well (again, not in peak periods), just going with the flow.

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 10:11
      +2

      Totally get your point, we are all different. Most of my travel has been done without pre booking hotels on the day I need them. Obviously, the reason for this is that it was nearly impossible to prebook anyway in pre-internet, pre smartphone /wifi days- yes, I’m that old!!

      I have never ever arrived in a city/town and not found accommodation for that night. The only exception was Lusaka, Zambia in 1996, when the city was “full” since a total eclipse of the sun was passing over the city the next day and it was full of Europeans and American tourists coming to see it. We found a nice hostel in the end and ended up making a bunch of friends and hiring a big van to drive out into the savannah to observe it. What happened next was totally enexpected - we ended up in a Zambian prison complex, because there were no prison walls because it was so far from anywhere for the prisoners to escape!!

  • Sinnerator on 26/09/2023 - 08:17

    You are AWESOME, just do it

  • Hellfire on 26/09/2023 - 08:37

    Double check the visa situation for the former USSR countries. Some have very specific visa requirements (or at least they used to).

  • Hansi on 26/09/2023 - 08:42
    +1

    Awesome trip, though as you said, if insurance covers it go via TRANSSIBERIAN Railway from Beijing - Moscow, then head South to Turkey and you would have a great time. I can only speak for that journey, but it is an experience in itself: drink with friendly locals (they won't speak English, but you will connect over 100ml vodka shots), nice locally made food during stopovers, homemade by the babushkas and amazing sights to see!

    If you are not adamant about taking a train, but possibly a bus instead, you could go Bangkok - Battambang - Phnom Penh - Ho Chi Minh - Da Nang - Nha Trang - Hanoi - China (prob Guangzhou / Shenzhen / Hong Kong - Shanghai - XiAn - Beijing)

    Always look left and right of your stops to see what's on offer, learn little bits of local languages and immerse yourself in their culture.You will meet friendly locals everywhere outside of touristy destinations.

    • bbinc on 26/09/2023 - 08:55

      That’s only 7 shots per bottle! Guy I met travelling once used to open a bottle of vodka and throw the cap away with a flourish!

      • Hansi on 26/09/2023 - 09:19

        Yeah haha 100ml is their double, but often the standard in their "vodka bars"

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 10:14

      All great suggestions, but as noted in my text trans Siberian is currently out of the question since Russia is a DO NOT TRAVEL country!! This also means no insurance!!

      • 6079 Smith on 27/09/2023 - 23:40
        +1

        I’ve been to heaps of do not travel countries, generally it doesn’t mean no insurance at all just not being covered for whatever the reason not to go there is. Eg a reputable insurer will look after you if you break your arm in Moscow but not if you get caught up in war

        Take Iran as an example, it’s on the list but gets many tourists even with organised groups like Intrepid, etc

  • Protractor on 26/09/2023 - 09:01

    Pure madness. You are crazy. May envy pave the way.

    Keep a diary. The book from that will sell like hot cakes, and make a good doco or film

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 26/09/2023 - 09:09
    +3

    Love the idea, go for it. If you have a blog etc would love to follow and be inspired.

    We have been to 60 countries and want to visit more.

    • bbinc on 26/09/2023 - 09:27

      Yes, love to connect to your blog. Even your planning experiences.

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 10:15

      Yes, I’ll give the blog some thought!!

  • bbinc on 26/09/2023 - 09:25

    Crazy would be not doing it! You’ve thought about it, researched it, are used to being flexible, and I suspect you usually have Plan B and Plan C in your mind. You’ll have plenty of unique and unexpected experiences. I look forward to your posts from the tracks! I’m remembering an Amtrak journey from Rochester NY to Chicago when our train broke down and we spent overnite in a crowded waiting room meeting all sorts of interesting people. We’ve done the USA coast to coast both ways (not all at once) by Amtrak sleepers. Loved it for the experiences, even the delays, of which there were plenty. Indonesian trains can be surprisingly good and less scary than the buses. Scams are common around trains - one Indian train scam near the Taj Mahal is to get you off the train at the wrong station. But it’s a great way to travel. Enjoy!

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 10:24

      Interesting! Was that so some scamming rickshaw driver would have to take you the rest of the way? Nowadays, I use my world map on GPS to avoid that type of scam!

      • bbinc on 26/09/2023 - 13:55
        +1

        No GPS in those days. Scammer gets you his mates Taxi to mate’s hotel etc etc. nowhere near Taj but he offers ‘great’ deal to drive you everywhere.

  • mskeggs on 26/09/2023 - 09:40

    We prefer train travel when practical too, but I'll chip in an overnight ferry can be great as well.
    Sleepers in Australia are very costly, as I am sure you are aware, but affordable in Asia and parts of Europe.
    My tips are pack water (once overnight sleeper to Venice with no potable water except the restaurant car, €70 for dinner and we had eaten).
    And pack cup noodles, as boiling water is frequently available.
    In cross border trips, there is often a price difference if you book on the cheaper countries, and that includes things like using the app to order sandwiches to your seat - use the costlier country's app can charge double.
    As mentioned, seat61 is great.
    Also, there are very nice YouTube reviews for most longer train journeys.

  • debb on 26/09/2023 - 10:23
    +2

    Sounds crazy, crazy wonderful! In the early 2000s, we did something similar around China, got visa, booked return fare and a couple of nights hotel at the start, and nothing else. Back then, not much info on internet, no google translate, no wifi, relied on a hardcopy Lonely Planet book, plastic card unheard of. We did this a number of times over a few years, about four weeks each, when we could get time off work.

    My two cents, be humble and travel with a happy heart. Be flexible and keep an open mind. Be sensible and speak the language of friendship. Always trust your inner voice and instinct. Enjoy!

    All the best with your travels, be safe, be well, life is good!

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 14:11
      +1

      Some of the best travel advice I have ever heard, thank you!

  • Sweet3st on 26/09/2023 - 11:34

    As mentioned you may have trouble entering the US after visiting Iran. Can you do the route in reverse? Or can you keep your cool lying to Homeland Security? Amtrak is great but will be more expensive last minute.

    • sumyungguy on 26/09/2023 - 11:42

      I understand worse case is you become ineligible for an ESTA and have to apply for a B1/B2 visitor visa.

    • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 14:13

      Fortunately, the route I described does not go through Iran.

  • ozice on 26/09/2023 - 17:38
    +1

    Absolutely love it. Will be unforgettable.

    I came back last month from doing a similar trip through the Stans and Eastern Europe. Ratcheted up the insanity level by including Ukraine, which you probably should not do for obvious reasons. Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan were fantastic experiences which I totally recommend, although have limited train tracks and to see the best of them you need to travel by car (do not miss one of the great road journeys in the world from Bishkek to Osh, stunning scenery across mountain ranges, and if you have time the crazy but incredible Pamir highway in Tajikistan).

    Uzbekistan has by far the most advanced rail system in Central Asia. Cheap, comfortable and unforgettable. Bookable online with google translate, mastercard worked while my visa card did not. Go first class and get your own compartment in the overnight trains for $20 each. Head to Samarkand, Bukhara and Khiva by rail.

    Maybe consider going to Georgia and catching the Dogu express to Ankara. A wonderful journey by all accounts that I plan to do next year. This you need to book at least a few weeks in advance as it is very popular. Head to Istanbul and then to Sofia on the Night Express Train where you even get a fridge in your compartment to keep your beers cool. Possibly the best train I travelled on.

    Only issue you will have is with zealous border guards demanding upon entry is proof you are leaving again. Make sure you have a booked train ticket out (make it flexible for only a little more) before you enter Central Asia. Although the Kyrgyz border guards were happy with my booking.com hotel reservations in Uzbekistan.

  • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 18:14

    oh WOW, what fantastic up to date information and tips - thank you so much OZICE! I am definitely going to follow up on all of your suggestions. What's so good is that your info is so up to date.

    One issue I have at present is that I understand that the train from Urumqi China to Almaty Kazakhstan has not started up yet due to COVID (from seat61 website). I am hoping that by the time we make this journey in about a year, it will be possible to get into the Stans from China by rail. And yep, we are planning on travelling 1st class when offered.

    • ozice on 26/09/2023 - 19:12

      No worries. Feel free to PM me if you need any specific info as I am sure I can answer quite a few of them. I haven't got round to blog about my latest trip but I will @ my farflungplaces.net site in the not too distant future. Although I have been to the Stan's many times and there is some info in there.

      First class is the best :-) particularly, and this is Ozbargain, as it is incredibly cheap and turns a 12 hour journey into a luxury experience and not a chore.

      I doubt very much that the direct China to KZ train will run. China seems to be doing everything possible to stop visits to Xinjiang (do not put you want to go there in your visa application) particularly by westerners. There is an easy work around though. Domestic train to Alashankou from Urumqi, bus to the border, and then on to Dostyk station in KZ and train to Almaty.

      Very close on the map, takes about an hour, depending on border formalities. Easy 😊

      • GOCAT9 on 26/09/2023 - 21:34

        Many thanks again OZICE. I thought there for a while that the China to KZ part was going to be a roadblock for us if the train doesn't run internationally, but that neat little work around via Alashankou and bus to border looks entirely feasible. The 8km from the border to Dostyk station, is that done on the same bus to the border or another bus that we pick up on the KZ side of the border?

        • ozice on 26/09/2023 - 21:45

          Different transport on either side of the border. A cheap Chinese taxi or bus from the station to the border, border formalities, a short walk, easier border formalities on the KZ side and then a Marshrutka (little mini buses, you'll love em in Central Asia! Leave when full) for a dollar or two or negotiate a taxi for around $20. They are lined up after the border checkpoint. Arrive early as the later in the day it gets the longer the wait.

        • s1Lence on 27/09/2023 - 18:13

          Random note, many of the countries you listed (the turkic ones such as kyrgyzstan, uzbekistan, turkey, kazakhstan & azerbaijan) are part of the same language family and share the same numbers so if you learn the basic numbers it will be the identical in all of those countries (could be useful)
          1-10 for example https://i.pinimg.com/736x/10/7e/85/107e852809cce1d25496a78f8…

  • s1Lence on 26/09/2023 - 21:19
    +1

    sounds fun, i love reading posts like this as they give me ideas for my future travels

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