Why Is No-One Pushing for ATO Income Threshold Increase?

gfjh567gh3 on 15/09/2023 - 15:28

Posting this as I am unsure why there's no popular pressure to push this policy:

Why has the ATO not increased the individual income tax threshold?

Inflation has raged, and is by no means stopping. We need multiple periods of NEGATIVE inflation to return to a 2020 baseline, and personally I believe that won't happen, these costs are now baked in until we have demand destruction.

For those lucky enough to get a wage increase (which surely hasn't met your true cost of living increases) the taxman eats straight into it. I can assure you that my cost of living has increased MORE than 7% ANNUALLY, and my wage increase YoY is less!

I don't even know why we tolerate paying income tax when the Government prints money, effectively double dipping on our buying power.

Perhaps the number of middle class voters getting bent over by PAYG is insignificant compared to non-taxpayers, be it by evasion or simply not being a productive citizen.

https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/individual-income-tax-rates/

Financial

Comments

    • Protractor on 17/09/2023 - 11:47

      You would need ppl to be able to look up from gadgets or lattes to have a revolution

  • jacross on 16/09/2023 - 09:27
    +5

    The ATO aren't responsible for tax policy (with the exception of administration and enforcement input).

    The Treasury provides the government with tax policy advice, and ultimately tax rates are a matter for the parliament.

    People do argue for fixing bracket creep but politicians tend not to have an incentive to fix it because you don't get credit for fixing the issue but you do get credit for occasionally providing tax cuts. That said Australia's income tax rates have been flattened.

    Various other tax and transfer policies complicate this though and create numerous hidden thresholds.

  • Thundaja on 16/09/2023 - 10:38
    +1

    The brackets should be indexed according to CPI each year. It’s ridiculous that they’re not when the ATO does it for HECS/HELP debts.

    • xyee on 20/09/2023 - 22:44

      And the $300 immediate deduction.

  • mrvaluepack on 16/09/2023 - 10:48

    Op please research more info about this before whining. There were already plans for this a while back. The tax bracket is going to change in a couple of years. Please dont jinx it.

    Tax scale 2024-25

    Taxable Income Tax On This Income
    0 to $18,200 Nil
    $18,201 to $45,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200
    $45,001 to $200,000 $5,092 plus 30% for each $1 over $45,000
    $200,001 and over $51,592 plus 45c for each $1 over $200,000

    vs current

    Resident tax rates 2023–24
    Taxable income

    Tax on this income

    0 – $18,200

    Nil

    $18,201 – $45,000

    19c for each $1 over $18,200

    $45,001 – $120,000

    $5,092 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $45,000

    $120,001 – $180,000

    $29,467 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000

    $180,001 and over

    $51,667 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

    • Hvrd on 16/09/2023 - 12:10
      +1

      why dont they raise the tax free threshold

      • mrvaluepack on 16/09/2023 - 13:05
        -1

        to force people to be more productive

        • Hvrd on 16/09/2023 - 15:00
          +1

          they would if they paid less tax on the money they made

      • CommuterPolluter on 16/09/2023 - 16:47
        +3

        Silent tax increase

  • jaimex2 on 16/09/2023 - 11:30
    +2

    Get better at bringing your taxable income down.

  • lachhelix on 16/09/2023 - 15:56
    +1

    Push away - they couldn't care less, like most (all) government departments

  • Wilson Wallace on 16/09/2023 - 17:49

    You want the economy fixed? Stop tax cuts, handover all monetary powers to the reserve bank.

  • bigbadaboom on 16/09/2023 - 19:17
    +4

    your frustration is valid. unfortunately, this is the way of the land. the average person on PAYG will never 'get ahead' even with the suggested tax brackets for 2024-25. like you said, wage growth doesn't keep up with inflation. even with a puny 2.5% tax rate reduction for most workers, inflation effects nullify that.

    since the 90s or so, this disparity only grows larger. the government doesn't work for you. it works for the big corporations. since the subject is recent, take Qantas as an example - if that cooperation was an individual, that person would be locked up in jail and all their assets liquidated years ago.

    bail outs, tax benefits, concessions, subsidies - it's all for big corporations. not for citizens. if they do give citizens a morsel once in a while, they'll be sure to balance that out in other ways (have a read of RBA's Rob Lowe's comments on wage growth affecting inflation and how it needs to be curtailed - kept a straight face too).

    if you try to read into this the frustration will get the better of you mate. this is the system we have all voted for.

    Gen Zs, despite most of their weird hair and pronouns (jks) - seem to have a voter mindset that may swing the pendulum the other way one day. hard to say yet. give it 20 years maybe. who knows, or maybe they'll overcorrect and turn into a bunch of commies..

  • callum9999 on 16/09/2023 - 19:39
    +1

    Since when has this country had "popular pressure" to do anything?

    While it's my preferred governance system, Australians (and in fairness, it's the same in many/most other countries) seem to have little interest in actually participating in democracy - the overwhelming attitude I encounter is "I vote in the election, I can't be bothered to do anything else". And even then, people often don't even know much about what they voted for.

    That means the people/organisations who do have an interest (largely the ultra rich and major corporations) are left to do their influencing largely unchallenged.

    Take this topic for example. The Green's want to do exactly this - how many people advocating for it even know this, let alone do anything to support them achieve it? (And I include myself, to a degree, in this)

    • brendanm on 16/09/2023 - 20:58
      +2

      The Green's want to do exactly this

      They also want to pay people on jobseeker near the same rate as someone working a minimum wage job. They are generally lunatics.

      • callum9999 on 17/09/2023 - 10:19

        An absolutely perfect illustration of my point.

        They don't want to do that, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

        For those who like facts, they want the minimum wage to be roughly $40/hr and they want job seeker etc to put someone above the poverty line - the equivalent of roughly $16/hr.

        They want work to pay a good living wage and those reliant on government support to be above the poverty line. What crazy lunatics!

        • brendanm on 17/09/2023 - 10:55

          They don't want to do that, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

          They literally do, it's in their policy.

          For those who like facts, they want the minimum wage to be roughly $40/hr

          Hahahahahahaha, as I said, actual lunatics, as they obviously don't understand basic economics.

          • callum9999 on 17/09/2023 - 11:09
            +1

            @brendanm: Aside from my typo (sorry that should say $30, not $40), they literally don't.

            https://greens.org.au/campaigns/increase-jobseeker

            Where is your evidence that this is their policy?

            Given you come across as incredibly ignorant on this topic, your assessment of their ability to understand basic economics doesn't hold much weight I'm afraid.

            • brendanm on 17/09/2023 - 14:42

              @callum9999:

              Where is your evidence that this is their policy?

              https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/268582/106607/screensh…

              You evenly linked to this yourself.

              Given you come across as incredibly ignorant on this topic, your assessment of their ability to understand basic economics doesn't hold much weight I'm afraid

              If you think that you can just magically give everyone on minimum wage $40 an hour, and not cause massive inflation, along with a heap of other issues, it's you who is incredibly ignorant.

              • callum9999 on 17/09/2023 - 18:27

                @brendanm: Surely the fact I provided you with that link should trigger something in your brain to realise "this doesn't say what I think it does"? What is the exact passage on that page that says what you claim it does?

                I've already corrected myself to say it should have been around $30. I missed the bit where this "magically" happens? Are you seriously arguing that governments should not have any policy that can't "magically" appear immediately?

                And although nuance is probably lost on you, increasing wages can, but doesn't automatically, "cause massive inflation". Hence why every country on the planet that has one regularly increases their minimum wage without it all being wiped out by sudden "massive inflation". Including Australia.

                • brendanm on 17/09/2023 - 18:43

                  @callum9999:

                  What is the exact passage on that page that says what you claim it does

                  Using math, $88x7=$616. Why would anyone go and work for 38 hours to make not even a couple hundred bucks more after tax? After fuel and childcare etc, you'd make more money sitting at home on your ass.

                  Hence why every country on the planet that has one regularly increases their minimum wage without it all being wiped out by sudden "massive inflation". Including Australia.

                  Money has to be earnt. Look at what happened when the government just threw money at anyone with a pulse, for no extra work, during covid. Why should people with no qualification, in an unskilled.job, who could be replaced with literally a random person off the street, be getting the same money as skilled workers? $30 minimum wage is a 30% increase. This flows on, and causes everyone else's dollar to buy less.

                  • callum9999 on 17/09/2023 - 22:51
                    +1

                    @brendanm: And the minimum wage they are proposing is around $1100… Almost double…. So not "basically the same" is it…

                    You should just stick with your anger about poor people being too stupid/unskilled/lazy to deserve a good life. It's scummy yes, but at least it makes sense. Arguing against a minimum wage increase by continually repeating right-wing soundbites like "this flows on" is meaningless drivel. A recent study in the UK estimated that increasing the minimum wage there by 20% would result in inflation increasing by….. 0.2%. They did increase it by 10% this year, inflation continued dropping month after month. There are LOTS of things that impact inflation - it's no coincidence that the rich like to focus on the one that means they can pay lower wages…

                    While that doesn't mean exactly the same would happen here, I'm sick of the economically illiterate blindly parroting "economic facts". Be honest - you thought it would have an enormous effect but didn't bother to actually look, didn't you? If you can answer that honestly (or even better - prove me wrong), I'm happy to keep talking. If not, I'll have more fun continuing this conversation with a brick wall. I'm guessing this is goodbye.

                    • brendanm on 18/09/2023 - 07:58

                      @callum9999: So the unskilled deserve to be paid the same as people who put effort in to be skilled?

                      We've already seen the effects of doubling jobseeker and handing out money like it's going out of fashion, over the last three years.

                      • callum9999 on 18/09/2023 - 19:51

                        @brendanm: Nope. Which is exactly why I not only didn't say that - I didn't even come close to hinting it. It doesn't even make sense - are you suggesting that I think everyone in the country should be on the minimum wage? Where on Earth have you heard people suggesting that?

                        It's clear that not only is your ignorance wilful ("you have evidence to prove your point? Well I still prefer to rely on random stuff I just reckon is true without looking into it at all"), you also have no interest in talking to me - instead preferring to talk with the imagined version of me you've incompetently invented inside your head.

                        There's little hope for you, but hopefully this interaction will prompt someone else reading it with a similar mindset to you to re-evaluate how they think about things. Bye!

                        • brendanm on 18/09/2023 - 20:38

                          @callum9999:

                          Nope. Which is exactly why I not only didn't say that - I didn't even come close to hinting it. It doesn't even make sense - are you suggesting that I think everyone in the country should be on the minimum wage? Where on Earth have you heard people suggesting that?

                          So everyone else will get a 30% payrise as well? Superb idea! That won't lead to any problems at all, well done to the greens for solving all out economic issues, just give everyone more money!

                          There's little hope for you, but hopefully this interaction will prompt someone else reading it with a similar mindset to you to re-evaluate how they think about things. Bye!

                          Hopefully the next person who thinks you can get money out of thin air, without affecting the economy, will read this and realise how absurd that sounds.

                          • callum9999 on 18/09/2023 - 22:48

                            @brendanm: I know I'm breaking my word here by responding to your idiocy again, but as it's quick…

                            Nope. Again - LEARN TO READ. It's really not that hard.

                            Perhaps. If they're literate then they will however know that I didn't say that (not everyone struggles to read as much as you do), and they'll see that my statements are backed up with examples and research whereas you just keep yelling "MY STUPID BRAIN THINKS THIS SO IT MUST BE TRUE".

                            • brendanm on 19/09/2023 - 06:23

                              @callum9999:

                              Nope. Again - LEARN TO READ. It's really not that hard.

                              Ok, then what happens to all the other wages when minimum wage goes up 30%? I haven't seen you answer this, but perhaps I've missed it somewhere.

                              • Diji on 20/09/2023 - 00:04

                                @brendanm: What's your favourite kind of truck?

                            • brendanm on 20/09/2023 - 17:49

                              @callum9999: Couldn't answer the question?

                              • callum9999 on 21/09/2023 - 12:23

                                @brendanm: I actually tried to stick to my word about not bothering to respond to you.

                                Lucky(!) for you I forgot and randomly clicked on this. 40% would already be on more than minimum wage, some of those now on minimum wage would get marginal increases to create a difference, many more jobs would now be minimum wage.

    • 2ndeffort on 19/09/2023 - 13:29

      I am one of those people that doesn't get involved in politics until an election ….. right up until the Greens get mentioned. The one thing that would get me off my chair and involved in politics is stopping/curbing the Greens/Communists/Marxists

      I love reading the uninformed commentary from the ex-personal injury lawyer that runs their Defence Policy (Shoebridge) as he analyses global military strategy through the lens of socialist propaganda and anti-american rhetoric. Apparently as the literal political manifestation of 'Slipping Jimmy' he has unpicked the Global Power balance and unsurprisingly it's all a grand conspiracy leaving potential Greens voters as the true victims. If only they give him their vote he, a latter-day Dennis Denuto will find a way to avert WWW3 and send us all into a state of peace, happiness and endless benefits paid for by some rich stereotype somewhere. I wonder how he would have taken my uninformed opinions on personal injury law when i was an Army Officer?

      • Diji on 20/09/2023 - 00:05

        WWW3

        Wait why is crypto involved?

  • xdigger on 16/09/2023 - 20:38
    +1

    Thats how they increase the tax income to pay for billions-dollars toys like AUKUS nuclear subs.

  • Seni0r El Cheapo on 16/09/2023 - 20:57

    Government expenses have gone up with the inflation. They need money as well.

  • TightAl on 16/09/2023 - 21:00

    Australia has alot of submarines and missles to buy from the US, also centerlink/NDIS rorts are ruining it for everyone :(

  • ColonialBoy on 17/09/2023 - 00:18
    +1

    The ATO is not changing it, the government is not changing it.

    In 2024 there will be the Stage 3 tax cuts.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2023 - 01:14
    +1

    OP is 100% right.

    My wage increase was my exact rental raise.

    EVERY single other thing I buy and pay from: Rego, food, haircuts petrol have all come up and these increases come straight from my standard of living in Australia.

    To make matters worse they got rid the middle income tax back thing that was $1500 and would of calmed me down about how much worse life has actively got in Australia.

  • leiiv on 17/09/2023 - 02:00
    +1

    Because I think most people like stabilty and are afraid of revolutionary changes or the unknown. That's why they keep voting for the same group of representatives who don't actually work in the best interest of the majority.

    • 2ndeffort on 24/09/2023 - 14:26

      Probably because most of us like stability and the ability to plan our lives. Radical action is normally favoured by …. radicals who are, by definition extremists. There are folks on the far left and the far right that campaign for a type of Australia that most of us wouldn't want to live in, from repressive communist state on one hand to Germany in the 1930's on the other extreme. As with most things, the middle ground with a sensible compromise is most appealing to most people. When one of the mainstream parties pursues a more radical agenda is normally where it gets us all into a lot of trouble.

  • BluebirdV on 17/09/2023 - 06:33
    +2

    Well, 681,000 new people came to Australia. Source: https://amp.9news.com.au/article/9aefec37-4cfd-4f13-8670-397…

    Isn't that a recipe for less for everyone? Scarcity means people are willing to pay more.

    • Protractor on 17/09/2023 - 09:02
      +5

      No, apparently a dying overpopulated planet needs more humans.There's more money in suffering and misery than there is in balanced Utopia.
      The exponential acceleration to our demise by capitalist stupidity is well and truly earned. Apathy led us to the cliff, greed will push us over

      • Windows7forever on 17/09/2023 - 23:43

        Well said. It's an idiocracy we are living in. Keep herding the sheep in.

      • 2ndeffort on 24/09/2023 - 14:30

        Any simple analysis of history will show that Capitalism has incredibly improved the lives of millions. It may not be perfect but as Churchill I think once said, "Capitalism is the worst form of government … except for all the others." Thank goodness I didn't have to raise my family in a Socialist country.

        • Diji on 25/09/2023 - 12:11

          Churchill didn't say that

    • baldur on 17/09/2023 - 22:03
      -1

      They spend more money then they make.
      They work at the jobs australian citizens don't.

      Maybe have some insight first.

      • Protractor on 18/09/2023 - 08:51
        +1

        Rubbish. eg The public service (state /federal) is filled with new migrants. Plenty of Aussies would love and can easily do those jobs. There's clearly a whole lot of direct job placement importing going on. Probably small print on an FTA.

        • baldur on 18/09/2023 - 12:22

          Why dont they do it then? Who stops them? Those who with temporary visas with limited work permit?

          • Protractor on 18/09/2023 - 12:36

            @baldur: Smells like a back door to me. Or 'conditions' on the job listing.
            You should be asking existing citizens who can't get a foot in the door or those in charge of the policy steeings and migration deals.

            • baldur on 18/09/2023 - 14:48
              +1

              @Protractor: Most significant condition is being a citizen dude in most of those roles.

              Not sure what you are on about.

              • Protractor on 18/09/2023 - 14:54

                @baldur: On about? Look at the basic PS jobs being filled by the massive influx of migrants here on supposed essential jobs. There's thousands of suitable existing residents who could and should do these jobs. Ask the govt why that is. Hint> more fuel for the capitalist boiler room.

                • baldur on 18/09/2023 - 16:38
                  +1

                  @Protractor: Migration is second biggest income source for australia after mines/natural sources.

                  Let's be fair here and stop with the outdated cliche "they steal our jobs"

                  • JohnHowardsEyebrows on 18/09/2023 - 17:36
                    +2

                    @baldur: The economy as it stands wouldn't grow without them. Doesn't change the fact migration is high as a means to inflate asset prices and depress wages. It's an unsustainable/ponzi scheme.

                    • Protractor on 20/09/2023 - 10:08

                      @JohnHowardsEyebrows: More than ponzy.It's a suicide scheme for the planet. More ppl, & larger economies only = less nature, less suitability. Those supporting this madness need to look outside their cosy nests. Summer has not even begun and we already have catastrophic ratings. The other toxic footprints occur on every corner of the planet.

                • larndis on 20/09/2023 - 09:29

                  @Protractor: @Protractor very happy to take a look, where am I looking?

                  • Protractor on 20/09/2023 - 10:09

                    @larndis: In front of your nose? Real world? Not through rose coloured lenses?

                • 2ndeffort on 24/09/2023 - 14:36

                  @Protractor: Spoiler, the Capitalist Boiler Room doesn't want more public servants, it wants small government potentially with government work contracted out to Professional Service companies. It would prefer private industry to be able to compete to provide government services for a profit, it doesn't want a multitude of public servants clogging up an increasingly over-regulated, expensive and difficult to navigate government beurecracy. Socialists prefer large governments, loads of rules, lots of unionized workers marching to the Government's tune, loads of mediocre, average roles toiling minimally but endlessly for eternity. It wants a nationwide self-licking ice-cream, all whilst calling for 'innovation'

                  • Protractor on 24/09/2023 - 14:46

                    @2ndeffort: Too many humans,period.
                    It's coming to an ugly head.
                    Privatisation of self created Armageddon, or aided and abetted by the mundane drones?
                    Makes no difference.

  • Benno007 on 17/09/2023 - 06:51
    +1

    Inflation back home sucks. That’s why I went and spent 30k on a holiday in Europe.

    Big Mac meal cost $25 AUD in Austria and $31 in Switzerland (and where we were that’s some of the cheapest food we could find- they wanted 37$ just for a grilld style burger in some places) It’s like $15 or so atm right back home?

    Changing tax brackets would be nice… it’s like yay I have waited a year and got a pay rise.
    Oops, we’ll now that pay is taxed more, andddd it’s also worth less than what you were on a year ago.

  • Chewy2221 on 17/09/2023 - 07:44
    +4

    A simple idea to combat "bracket creep" is tax indexation. This has been suggested for many years but to no avail. If the CPI rises by say 5%, each of the tax brackets would rise by the same amount . This takes the politics out of it which is exactly what the politicians hate. They all love the idea of campaigning for tax cuts each election.

    • valuer on 17/09/2023 - 12:34
      +2

      Yes, this is precisely what should happen.

  • ColtNoir on 17/09/2023 - 08:24
    +3

    No one’s pushing as there’s already stage 3 coming into effect which will benefit to an extent those om $40k plus.

    Anyone on less than $40k is likely not engaging in politics and is probably worrying about housing and feeding themselves.

  • RefusdClassification on 17/09/2023 - 12:45
    +2

    People complaining about tax need to think of the following: how much free stuff/subsidies have you received from the government in the past; how much are you currently receiving; you much will you likely be siphoning out of the system in the future? 90% off childcare, free K-12 public school education costing $14,000 a year at least, heavily subsized or bulk billed doctor's appointments, heavily subsidized medicines, free vaccinations, Family tax benefit part A + B, unemployment benefits, JobKeeper payments, subsidized public transport, public roads, public libraries, negative gearing, capital gains discounts, superannuation tax deductions, dental medicare for kids, heavily subsidized home loads for indigenous people, public housing, free public hospitals and ambulance, subsidized university degrees, private health insurance rebates, and on and on.

    Australians should be paying more tax, not less. Either that, or massively slash middle class welfare.

  • JohnHowardsEyebrows on 17/09/2023 - 12:56

    Is OP unaware of stage 3 tax cuts?

    • larndis on 17/09/2023 - 16:00
      +4

      It's safe to say that is one of many things OP is unaware of

  • hawkshead on 17/09/2023 - 15:16
    +2

    I don't think the ATO decides this at all? they just administrate the tax system. I think this is a minister issue. Hit up your PM.

  • baldur on 17/09/2023 - 15:22
    +2

    Op is right. Brackets should be changed and adjusted in accordance with the recent high inflation rates.

    For example tax free threshold must be 20k, not 18k and so and on for the other brackets.

    This is fair to ask and not so hard to understand.

  • dylan345 on 17/09/2023 - 15:51
    +1

    Oddly enough a common method to reduce inflation is to increase taxes. Because too much money in circulation causes inflation, taxes remove money from circulation if not spent right away or if put into a surplus which I believe the government did for the first time in 15 years.

    Not adjusting tax brackets in line with inflation helps curve the effects of inflation.

    • gfjh567gh3 on 18/09/2023 - 17:11

      Logically, I agree, but that only applies if wage rises drove inflation in the first place. In this case, it's the Gov injecting vast amounts of 'stimulus' to the economy.
      I bet there's a good chunk of the population who are maxxing out credit, and are only buying staples (fuel, housing, groceries, insurance). They're not flush with cash, chasing something to buy

  • Windows7forever on 17/09/2023 - 23:38
    +1

    They need to increase the tax free threshold in line with inflation!

  • ialam99 on 18/09/2023 - 06:46
    +1

    I didnt realise kids tax rates are so much worse then adults. A $15/week allowance will take you to 66% tax rate.

    https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/Tax-rates-if-you-re-under-18-ye…

  • Oztx on 18/09/2023 - 09:13
    +1

    I don't even know why we tolerate paying income tax when the Government prints money.

    Sorry, but this a dumb take.

    I do think that a dynamic tax threshold based on inflation index would be more fair though.

  • raginggiant on 18/09/2023 - 10:48
    +1

    Tax is actually one of the more effective ways of controlling inflation. Tax cuts have the opposite effect and make inflation worse.

    • gfjh567gh3 on 18/09/2023 - 17:10

      Only if wage rises drove inflation in the first place.
      I bet there's a good chunk of the population who are maxxing out credit, and are only buying staples (fuel, housing, groceries, insurance). They're not flush with cash, chasing something to buy

  • Nost-dc on 18/09/2023 - 13:24
    +1

    Personally I wish they would allow a rebate or charge income tax based on household income. I get they want to promote people returning to work after having kids, but it seems unfair to base benefits eligibility, etc on "household income", but then charge income tax as individuals with no regard on household / spouse

    a single income household where 1 person earns 200k pays almost 61k in tax
    a dual income household where both earn 100k pays almost 46k tax in total

    thats a ~15k difference in take home pay between 2 households that have the same total income

    • Protractor on 18/09/2023 - 14:28
      +1

      I agree. Singles get the rough end of the tax pineapple, pro-rata.
      That discrepancy sounds like an anachronistic, 'housewife' and bread earner relic.
      Personally I think every person should be means tested for taxation purposes, including the value of trust accounts. Personally I also think they should scrap negative gearing after the first investment property and you get one shot or 2 shots at EVER getting it.
      Maybe 100K earners should share-house and split the diff?

  • 3rdStageOfGrief on 18/09/2023 - 15:03

    Taxes are how inflation goes down. You print money (budget spending), inflation goes up. You destroy money (tax), inflation goes down. You should be asking for more tax, not less, if you want to reduce inflation.

    The real answer here is that this inflation has been caused predominantly by increased private profits, and the reason why governments haven't taxed those private profits is because every government is politically allied with the private profiteers.

    • gfjh567gh3 on 18/09/2023 - 17:07

      Taxes only reduce inflation if the demand creation is via wage growth (which, allegedly, can happen!). That's certainly not the case now, it's from massive government spend "stimulus". Mass immigration adds to this inflation, especially for items like rentals, used cars, groceries.

      Totally agree regarding private profits - mind you, that's only really for the big players, small and medium business got the stick as well. Even back in the monarchy, the big players close to the treasury get all the benefits!

      • 3rdStageOfGrief on 18/09/2023 - 17:15

        taxes always deflate prices. destroying money means all surviving money represents a larger proportion of the real, tangible value that money represents. if the government taxed until there was only $1 left, we would all be earning and spending tiny fractions of that dollar. you could buy a skyscraper for a microscopic fraction of a single cent.

        immigration does not increase inflation, because immigrants work to provide supply just as much as they create demand. immigrants build houses, manufacture and maintain cars, and cultivate food at the same rate as born citizens.

        • furyou on 18/09/2023 - 22:48
          +1

          Taxes do not destroy money.
          It's right there in the gov coffers, being spent, being multiplied via the system.

          Sorry this is only based on year 9 commerce classes, others may have more input.

  • R4 on 18/09/2023 - 15:14
    +1

    This is why next year's stage 3 tax cuts are important.

    The government would be mental to scrap then.

  • happydude on 18/09/2023 - 20:56
    -1

    I always enjoy these posts from expert economists.

  • CowFrogHorse on 19/09/2023 - 10:16
    +2

    ITs a very simple answer, over half of all Australians pay less tax than they receive back.

    Where do you think the money is going to come from to pay for all the stuff the GOV gives away ?

    Schools, hospitals, pensions, police, fire service, ambos they are not free ?

    You do realise for example with child care the GOV is losing on basically every single beneficiary. Most families here are clearly getting more from the GOV than the tax they pay.

    • 2ndeffort on 19/09/2023 - 13:44
      +1

      Businesses also pay tax and there are stacks of hidden taxes, stamp duties, levies, GST, rates etc on top of income tax as well.

      • CowFrogHorse on 19/09/2023 - 17:41

        Thats not how tax works.

        Then let the business pay for the childcare that the mum or dad who they employ. THe tax the company pays for is not to enable their employees to get freebies so they get an employee.

        The business still needs to contribute to all the other things the gov takes care for all of us, like roads, fire service, police and countless other things.

        • ssfps on 21/09/2023 - 00:15
          +1

          Yep, as someone with kids who earns well below average - i'd love if they would scrap child care and all the other bullshit they dangle in front of us to validate the unethical taxation. Let people who want it pay what it's worth.

  • AuQld on 19/09/2023 - 13:36
    +3

    I paid 5k tax out of 12k, so by working my ass off Im paying for 10 people to sit at home and do nothing or Ukraine to blow it up. There's a tax on everything, I already pay for the roads in a rego and council rates. Then they go and dilute it by printing billions to give to give to Qantas who won't issue refunds and fired all the staff illegally.

    I honestly am giving up working hard, I'm taking a break for 6 months this year to avoid paying additional tax, and will be moving to a 3 day week in the future. They can really get (profanity)..

    • gfjh567gh3 on 19/09/2023 - 15:03

      Yes, working conditions have gotten so poor (around the world) that people are not getting ahead (after living expenses) from a full weeks work.
      I empathyse for those deciding welfare is a better quality of life option.
      It certainly raises the question if the 'strategy' of the government leading to these sorts of conditions is sustainable.

    • CowFrogHorse on 19/09/2023 - 17:45
      +2

      I feel for you, but you fail to understand all of this happened because the governments of the past 20 years have sold the Australian way of life to FORCE us to compete against the world in their unfair system.

      Housing crisis - caused by rising prices because of foreign ownership. Theres a very simple solution that would have slowed the price rises down, ban foreign buyers.

      University crisis - caused by selling out universities to froeign students. Our parents paid for them universities, they should be made available for Australians first and foremost not opportunities for business types to sell them once the average Australian paid for them in the first place.

      We shouldnt be playing the world game, its got crap rules and everybody loses. Just look at the underclass being created by Gig operators like Uber etc.

  • releasethekr4cken on 19/09/2023 - 14:45
    +1

    If you are suggesting that it should be indexed to inflation, I agree.

    Same as the means testing criteria we apply to certain government benefits.

    • CowFrogHorse on 19/09/2023 - 18:28

      Thats not how the gov balances the books.

      People want more and more goodies from the gov, the money has to come from somewhere.

      Guess where the money for the new sydney airport is coming from ? Guess where the money for the raods and trains for that are coming from.

      Heres a clue, the tourism industry isnt paying for it, the tax payers who get zero financial benefits are paying so a very small minority can make money. THe problem is there are many other examples of the masses paying for something they get no benefit and actually harms and damages their own personal life experience.

  • surg3on on 19/09/2023 - 15:33

    You know more tax (if then unspent) reduces inflation right?

  • Lit Homie on 20/09/2023 - 02:01

    This is such an interesting thread! Amazing how much people think they know

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