New Home Build - Network Connectivity and Equipment

XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 15:09
Last edited 30/08/2023 - 18:53 by 1 other user

Building a new home and wanted some quick advice on what i am planning. Have only found one other forum: https://forum.homeone.com.au/ and will try there as well.

If you could start from scratch what would you do in your house?

Two storey home (just over 500sqm), lights, doors, blinds, cameras are all expected to be 'connected'. I have been looking at Ubiquiti products as they seem like they will do everything in one. Each bedroom and main living areas will have Ethernet ports, i.e. 4 ports behind TV / entertainment area. 2 behind fridge and scullery two in garage for electric vehicles etc.

I started a small list and believe this should cover most things.

Dream Machine Pro
16Port POE+
5x G4 Pro cameras
2x UniFi AP Wifi 6e
G4 Pro Doorbell.

Builder has suggested a company locally but their prices are just insane for the products without install. i.e. Cat 7 100m reel for $900.

Any advice?

Computing Doorbell IP Camera Network Switch Router Security Camera Security Gateway Ubiquiti Wireless Access Point

Comments

  • Gdsamp on 30/08/2023 - 15:23
    +2

    anything electronic that can be replaced easily hwhen it breaks

  • odgregg on 30/08/2023 - 15:24
    -1

    Have you thought of the in wall AP with 4 ports?

    https://www.ubnt.com.au/unifi-in-wall-hd-access-point

    • rumblytangara on 30/08/2023 - 16:22
      +5

      I'd avoid in-wall APs. Several years ago Ubiquiti suddently EoLed a bunch of their in-wall stuff, so people were left with unsupported equipment that was purpose-mounted into drywall.

      All this gear has a finite life shorter than the expected life of a wall at home, so it's better to plan that it will be ripped out at some stage. Better to unscrew a mounting plate off a ceiling than leave a gaping hole in a wall.

      • djsweet on 30/08/2023 - 16:40
        +1

        Isn't it just the same size as a powerpoint? Should be able to be replaced with a new one, or in the worst case a plain old ethernet outlet

        • rumblytangara on 30/08/2023 - 16:50

          Could be… all I remember is that the people on the Unifi forums who had them were really pissed.

          But if there is any standardisation in size, they're going to be US standards.

          I've also not really looked into it in detail (stuff like range/patterns) but the only times I've seen stuff like this deployed is in hotel rooms. Where there is literally one of these style devices per room. So I'm under the impression that they're designed more for very dense deployments rather than absolute range. Could be wrong. But I do know that given the dimensions of those things, they wouldn't be able to fit the radio antennae that are in my APs. And would have a bit of trouble fitting the antennae that I've seen in older gen Unifi APs as well, and certainly not with the same vertical/horizontal orientation.

          • ravennoir on 31/08/2023 - 10:44

            @rumblytangara: I had one of the 2 port ones die on me and completely overload my network.

            It is the same size and mounting as the Australian standard plate, so had no issues putting the original back in place

            OP : I would think maybe about getting more APs depending on the size of each floor. We have a 27sq (builders squares) single story and 2 only just cover it, I had to add a FlexHD near the door got the Doorbell

    • johnwarburton on 30/08/2023 - 18:24

      Yes. These are wife approved as they blend into a white wall with the LED off and as others have said are the size of a power point

    • XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 18:31

      We did look at them, but all bedrooms will have a ethernet port anyway. Not sure its better than the AP?

    • owwreally on 31/08/2023 - 21:53
      +1

      Have put these through my place - they are great and not an eye sore like the larger round dishes.

  • JIMB0 on 30/08/2023 - 15:26
    +1

    Intercom

  • jugsy on 30/08/2023 - 15:28
    +12

    Try to avoid locking yourself in to any specific designs or products - get a central cabinet with plenty of space and ventilation, get blank plates put in areas your unsure of (of course I wouldnt ever recommend anyone do their own uncertified data cabling work, even though its no more complicated than lego and much lower voltage than power cabling…)

    • XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 18:46
      +1

      Thanks the reason we looked at Ubiquiti was it covered nearly all basis, so everything should talk to each other, rather than three different brands for each thing. I dont mind paying a bit extra for that privilege, Any recommendations?

  • Otto-Mann on 30/08/2023 - 15:29
    +3

    4 WAPs see overkill for that space. you'd get away with 1 per floor. you could run the cable and just leave it in the ceiling IF you wanted to add some more.

    You'd basically run cables everywhere during frame up as its way easier to over commit than under. Don't forget to include a cable to run from the NBN NTD to where all of this stuff will terminate. Have cables run and terminated but hidden in the roof for when/if you need them. More security etc.

    Why CAT 7? Cat 6/6a not sufficient?

    "Cat7 can operate at up to 40Gbps at distances up to 50m, and 10Gbps at lengths up to 100m"

    If you went the Dream Machine Pro SE, you can utilise the 8 POE/POE+ ports on it and potentially not need a dedicated POE+ switch. Then get a 48 port non POE switch and workout getting 48 CAT6/6a/7 cables terminated so it all matches up nicely.

    • XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 18:35

      Thanks, we have a small cabinet going in the garage for it. We even looked at the dream wall which looks great.
      Downgrade on the AP - got it!
      Yes cabling everywhere already on the building plans, but probably need to know more than just what id "like" to get. Id prefer to stay with one brand / company as it makes it easier when dealing with suppliers etc. happy to pay a little bit extra for that privilege.

      The DM Pro can handle the cameras direct? and then the 48 non POE switch does the rest i.e. tv, fridge etc?

      • Otto-Mann on 30/08/2023 - 20:57
        +1

        You need to get the SE version as the standard doesn’t have POE. And agreed keeping it all the same and a single pane of glass for management. CAT6 will be plenty to cater for your needs and save you some money. Go 6a if you really want.

        • pangwen on 31/08/2023 - 07:25
          +2

          That’s exactly what I did.

          • 1x UDM SE
          • 1x US-24 (non PoE), bought second hand off eBay
          • 1x U6-LR connected to the UDM SE
          • 1x Unifi G3 flex (2nd hand), and a mix of G4 bullets and G4 pros. All connected into the UDM SE
          • NBN NTD linked to the wan port of the UDM SE
          • Unifi DAC cable between the UDM SE and the US-24 (to avoid clogging up a Poe port for the connection)
          • Everything else connected into the US-24
          • All of the in-wall network cable is cat-6 (not 6A but probably don’t need it for the size of the property) done by the builder
          • XCelR8 on 31/08/2023 - 11:28

            @pangwen: Thanks for the informative post!

          • 91rs on 31/08/2023 - 21:55
            +2

            @pangwen: Similar setup.
            New house had 6 or 6a wired to the points that I wanted it, NTD in the garage with a port to link between the NTD and the small 12U cabinet I installed.
            1 X UDM Pro
            1 X US-24 PoE switch
            1 X SFP fiber link (couldn't get the copper normal link at the time)
            Couple of their flex-mini's (office for machines + printers and other LAN devices, one for media center for TV, Pi, AVR etc)
            6 X G4 Bullets
            1 X G4 Dome
            1 X Ai-360 (G4 dome's were sold out)
            2 X AC-Lite's (couldn't get U6 at the time and these were smaller than AC-Pro at the time)
            Thinking about the doorbell but haven't gotten anywhere with it yet.

            Very happy with it all, all the control you'd want, apps work well if you're away etc.

            • rumblytangara on 01/09/2023 - 09:34
              +1

              @91rs: I'd recommend to anyone not to continue buy the AC-Lites if they are even still available. I've had 2 hard fail and one fail intermittently. When I ended up doing comparative range testing, a home Asus router did slightly better. I ended up opening up the Lites, and when I saw how sparsely populated the PCB was, and that they just used a stamped piece of metal for for their 'fancy' aerial, I wasn't surprised. iirc the Lites also run at a lower TX power than most other APs.

              I gave an AC-Pro to a friend 7-8 years ago, that thing is still going strong. Maybe those were built better.

              • 91rs on 01/09/2023 - 12:05

                @rumblytangara: Not yet had any problems but they were on my list to upgrade to a WiFi 6 AP, this was about 2 years ago peak covid and the only AP's I could buy were the AC-Lite. Those AC-Pro seem to go well, similar story of a mate who's had some for years without issues.

                I have heard similar comments from others though and thats why its on my list to do sooner than later, but yeah anyone buying now should be looking for WiFi6 anyway.

      • gromit on 01/09/2023 - 07:33
        +2

        I made the mistake of putting cabinet in the garage, not something I would ever do again. Maybe where you live is better climate, but here way to hot in summer and dusty. switches and routers etc do not do well in an oven.

  • jv on 30/08/2023 - 15:29
    +8

    Cat 7 100m reel for $900.
    Any advice?

    Cat 6

  • dtc on 30/08/2023 - 15:30
    +2

    500m2?

    • XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 18:30

      Thanks - definitely not a builder :S

    • Odin on 31/08/2023 - 08:31
      +3

      500m2

      Mansion size

      • XCelR8 on 01/09/2023 - 15:18

        Its 503.9 to be exact. Feels like most of its garage haha.

  • yale2016 on 30/08/2023 - 15:30
    +4

    Are they trying to upsell you on CAT 7? I was very recently charged the following rates by an electrician to supply:

    CAT6e (whatever "e" is???): $0.85/m
    CAT6 mechs: $7.50
    Wall plates: $5.85

    • XCelR8 on 31/08/2023 - 11:28

      Possibly, but that was a local installer, probably wont go with them anyway.

  • sumyungguy on 30/08/2023 - 15:31
    +2

    Remember to include GPOs for roller blinds, garage door opener, smart (bathroom) speakers and and smart toilets. I'm putting ethernet ports for a router/switch near my home theatre equipment (TV, home theatre receiver, game console, Foxtel Now, security camera hub, Hue bridge) but don't need them anywhere else - all my newer model whitegoods have Wi-Fi.

  • Twix on 30/08/2023 - 15:33
    +2

    You may not need four APs. Upload your network plans here to get a visual overlay of your wireless coverage.

    Look up the maximum PoE power requirements of the cameras, APs and doorbell. Sometimes the UniFi 16 port PoE switch doesn't have enough PoE power even though it has enough PoE ports.

    The G4 Pro is a good 4K camera but just so you know the new G5 Pro camera and optional G5 Enhancer was recently released. You are missing a hard drive or SSD for UniFi Protect recordings.

    CAT 6 and CAT 6A should be fast enough. What's the reasoning for wanting CAT 7? Why do you want two ethernet ports behind the fridge?

    • XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 18:44
      +1

      Tanks just uploaded them! Looks like we can easily get away with 2 AP.
      Will take the newer model for the G5 Pro! looks like a decent upgrade looking at the youtube reviews. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkyURwCHBrQ

      No reason for the Cat 7, was just advised by the local company. I still think 6a will be enough.

      • bamzero on 31/08/2023 - 10:15
        +2

        Wired my whole house with CAT 6 when I built, two ports to every room. Fast forward nearly 20 years, most of them never used and WiFi has gotten much better since then. (I still like to have them there though, and with the right baluns can use them for pretty much anything)

        Have a centrally mounted AC-PRO which covers the whole 600+ block. Single storey though, but yeh one for each floor should be plenty for you.

        Just try to hardwire your smart gear where you can. Changing/recharging batteries is a PITA.

        • gromit on 01/09/2023 - 16:53

          always depends on your usage scenarios, I cabled my whole house with Cat 6 some 17 years with 2 ports in every room. I regret not getting more ports in living room, office, bedroom etc. Next year will make sure that is corrected on new house, WiFi is great but it is still second rate compared to a wired connection.

          • bamzero on 01/09/2023 - 17:41

            @gromit: Yeh, I used wired for my media players and main PC, and cameras are PoE.
            My switch gear is in the study mind you, so servers, printers etc in there are cabled directly. If my cabling went back to the garage then yeh I definitely would have needed more ports in the study at least.
            The stuff in the rest of the house is mostly mobile, laptops etc so they live on WiFi.

  • DGrayson82 on 30/08/2023 - 15:35
    +3

    You can save some money by only going with 1 data point in the entertainment areas and using an in-wall HD which acts as a switch and access point

    Our builder is charging us an insane amount ($200) for each data point so we tried to cut down as much as we could

    I'm also planning to go with TP-Link's Omada range as i've heard good things about it

    • rumblytangara on 30/08/2023 - 18:04
      +1

      Can you hire a separate electrician to come in during the build to do your runs?

      • DGrayson82 on 30/08/2023 - 19:52

        Nope, they wont allow any third parties on site.

    • exceladdict on 31/08/2023 - 08:32
      +1

      Came here to comment this. I'm leaning towards the omada system as well - One EAP670 per floor plus the cloud controller to start. Cheap er605v2 modem until I know exactly which ISP to go with and whether their service allows 4g backup (will need to integrate the ISP modem somehow if so).

  • ScottyDont on 30/08/2023 - 15:37
    +1

    I recently finished my house build and went with a USW-Enterprise-24-PoE for the 2.5GbE to the server and PCs, and 2x U6 lite to cover 311sqm 2 storey. Cat7 seems excessive, I ran Cat6 which is still overkill and was ~$180 for a 305m drum

    • XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 18:37
      +1

      I thought Cat 6a would be enough, they were suggesting 7 for future proofing. I dont want to be a Tony Abbott though and say 25mbps is enough for anyone….

      • ScottyDont on 31/08/2023 - 09:34

        Yeah good point, I went Cat6 as it can do 10Gbps for shorter runs but Cat6A is recommended for longer runs. I will just pull replacements when I really need more speed (possibly never) and my max run has been 18m so far.
        Will your fridge ever need dual 40Gbps links (Cat7)?
        Cameras are only a few Mbps, will be a while before they need more than Cat6.
        I may as well ask, have you considered fibre if you want it futureproofed? Maybe multiple switch locations connected via fibre then short runs from each or just all out fibre everywhere

      • rumblytangara on 31/08/2023 - 09:43
        +3

        Never believe a sales person if they use the phrase "future proof". They're trying to upsell, and more than half the time the standards or tech or pricing has changed so much by the time the future has arrived, you're better off buying from scratch.

        In the case of cabling, just make sure they install conduit instead of half arsing it by stapling ethernet inside the walls. That way you can have fibre installed easily in the future.

        • XCelR8 on 31/08/2023 - 11:31

          Fibre would be too expensive i think? Didnt even come up as an option.
          6a sounds more than reasonable since we havent saturated a 1gig connection yet. Conduit is your friend when building for sure!

          • rumblytangara on 31/08/2023 - 11:41
            +2

            @XCelR8: Conduit means that if in 10 years time, there is some reason for fibre, you can have fibre installed cheaply and quickly. Conduit is the future proofing, it's not buying some BS spec Cat 7. Don't install fibre now.

            (As a material, it's also not expensive, but it will be a PITA to find switches to support it, and you can't do PoE runs to wireless access points.)

      • gromit on 02/09/2023 - 10:44

        Future proof is salesman speak to say "buy this overpriced item you don't actually need and are unlikely to ever need". 6a goes up to 10GB, You are highly unlikely to ever need more than that in a home for the lifetime of the cable and once(if ever) we do need more in home it is likely to be something other than Cat 7 that we are using.

        but gotta say, you must be spending north of 1.3m on the home build for a house that size, quibbling over $900 seems strange. but yeah that is extremely expensive for cat7, given the poor sales advise they probably bought it when it was a lot more expensive and need to offload it.

  • seanw18 on 30/08/2023 - 15:38
    +1

    I'm very happy with the Unifi management tool for my network (my kit: orig Dream Machine UDM, USW-Lite-16-PoE, + 2APs )

    Unifi have a planning tool, do you really need 4-APs? You can wire for 4 APs and start with fewer if uncertain.

    Confirm the gateway has headroom on throughput for your current (+future?) broadband speed - like most vendors the Unifi throughput quoted will be with most security features disabled. (E.g. my UDM can only do 80mbps with everything on)

    I haven't purchased unify cameras as other POE cameras are such better value and I've integrated mine into home assistant.

    • XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 18:47

      Just loaded up the plans into their Design centre and we can get away with 2!

      • Lichen6420 on 31/08/2023 - 19:29
        +2

        Don't under spec on AP's, just throw in 4 and be safe. Particularly double story you need to get that right up front because it's painful to fix later.

        I wouldn't trust a single AP to do a full 250sqm level properly. I would want 2 on each level for that size. Best case scenario vs actual world scenario can vary a fair bit, lots of variables come into play, wall insulation, plasterboard thickness, steel vs wood frame, building materials etc. Also nice to have wifi in the yard for irrigation control and other odds and ends that may pop up.

        My house if full Unifi setup, we built our house 2 years ago. 270sq/m single story so nothing on the size of yours, ground footprint would be similar though.

        Dream Machine Pro
        US-24G1 Switch
        US-24-250W POE Switch
        2 x UAP-AC-LR Access Point (near front and rear of house)
        1 X UAP-AC-PRO Access Point (center of house)
        6 x G3 Flex Internal Cameras
        5 x G3 Bullet External Cameras

        • Double ethernet points to the rear of all wall mounted TV's in bedrooms, lounge etc
        • Ethernet to projector in theatre.
        • Ethernet for gaming console locations, Apple TV’s etc
        • Small data cabinet in office to store all Unifi gear & patch panels
        • Double ethernet to office behind desk
        • Ethernet point for printer on other side of the office
        • NBN Fiber NTD installed beside rack in internal office, direct run from pit in street straight to NTD skipping garage etc
        • Ethernet from patch panel to all camera locations
        • Ethernet to solar inverter & 2 spare cable runs for future batteries in garage if it eventually makes sense cost wise

        We were lucky in that I had a really good builder that let me drop a whole heap of empty 25mm conduits to my ethernet point locations during framing so I could come in later after hand over was complete and run all the ethernet cables myself. Saved me a SHITLOAD of money. Having conduits in place means if the cable ever needs to be upgraded in future its a super easy job.

        Single story with good roof space so I could get Cat6 easily wherever it needed to go including eaves.

        Be realistic and don't overkill ethernet, but think carefully and don't forget anything that's actually needs it. Hard to run after the fact. Media devices, POE devices & cameras yes, good quality wifi will suffice for everything else where latency doesn't matter that much. Don't skimp on AP's.

        Don't install a single oyster light or fluro ! Make sure ALL lights in the house are installed with a plug base so they can be upgraded and swapped for new smart lights etc as technology allows and evolves. Make sure neutral is run to ALL light switches. Loop at the switch wiring. If it’s all down lights it should be wired this was by default.

        If you went Clipsal iconic for your light switches you can add LED backlighting to all the switches, it’s a nice touch and costs stuff all. About $2.50 per switch supply cost for the LED unit.

        I regret not putting in Ethernet for a doorbell.

        • XCelR8 on 01/09/2023 - 15:21

          The iconic looks great, definitely want LED everywhere in the house!

          What do you mean by neutral run to all light switches?
          Also, where are you putting the ethernet for the door? our builder suggested it goes through the hinge??

          • Lichen6420 on 03/09/2023 - 17:55
            +1

            @XCelR8: Neutral at the switch is the default when using downlights.

            Having a neutral wire gives the advantage of having a permanent power source available for things like smart switches, solid state dimmers, backlit LED when switches are in the off state etc etc Basically you need it for smart technology to work properly.

            I made the mistake of not hard wiring a door bell in my house. I would not suggest running ethernet into the door itself. Mount the doorbell on the door frame next to the door.

  • trankillity on 30/08/2023 - 15:40
    +2

    You've got the PoE cameras planned (including the doorbell), which is usually what trips people up after the fact. I'd also recommend having a bunch of extra cables run to places you think you may potentially need cameras in future. Even if they're not patched in, it's always better to have spare ethernet runs, than not enough. I would recommend using Ubiquiti's WiFi planner tool to work out AP positioning based on your floor plans. A NAS would also be a great investment for your little homelab setup.

    As for the "connected" nature of what you're after, there's a few ways you can achieve that. You can either get in-wall switches/dimmers (usually ZigBee) that can control any old LED bulb, or you can get specific bulbs that have inbuilt ZigBee repeaters such as Hue. The Hue ecosystem is very robust, and the app is easy to use (high partner-acceptance-factor), but you can't add non-Hue products to it and it's quite expensive. I personally have all Hue lights, but only a handful of them are actually connected to my Hue hub. The rest are connected to my ZigBee network controlled by Home Assistant (which also controls all the Hue stuff). Home Assistant isn't super user friendly but it is super powerful and acts as a brilliant way to control all your devices from a single system. It mainly focuses on local control, so everything is instant - as opposed to most other systems which are dependant on the cloud and take 1-3 seconds to respond.

    The final thing you might want to consider is some smart smoke alarms. The 240v wired Google/Nest ones are about the only decent certified ones in Australia that meet the requirements of all the state fire regulations.

    If you have any more specific questions about the "smart" systems, I'll do my best to answer them based on my 10 years or so of experience :)

    • exceladdict on 31/08/2023 - 08:34

      How are you controlling HA? Considering an rpi4 + the new skyconnect to take over current hue stuff and allow more ZigBee non-hue things in the future.

      • trankillity on 31/08/2023 - 11:19
        +1

        HA is running on a Pi4 for responsiveness, but pretty much everything else that the system uses is run on my NAS (MariaDB for history recording, MQTT for messaging, Frigate for NVR/object detection). I have a SkyConnect, but I went back to my Conbee II due to some devices not working very well with the SkyConnect (my Yale lock was the main one - kinda important).

        As I mentioned, some of my stuff is still through Hue, but I moved a bunch of things to ZHA to build the mesh better for my ZHA sensors.

    • muzzamo on 31/08/2023 - 13:45

      The hue app can control non hue zigbee lights.

      I've got it controlling some non hue zigbee batton lights in my garage.

  • garthr on 30/08/2023 - 15:41

    Not sure why you’d look at cat 7. Cat 6 will be fine.

    Run pvc pipe in the walls with draw line so you can replace cables if needed in 15 years time.

    Wifi 6e APs will set you back $600 each. Also you’ll might want to consider one of their enterprise switches with 2.5gbps otherwise might be a little bottlenecked.

    This is quickly adding up.

    Just get u6 lites and call it a day.

    • XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 18:48

      Thanks we allocated just under 20,000 for the Ubiquiti equipment but that seems a little overkill now. We are pretty happy to be able to allocate this elsewhere.

      • rumblytangara on 30/08/2023 - 21:55
        +7

        20K for networking equipment and cameras is… incredible overkill. It's not even a serious business/enterprise brand, this is basically tarted up home gear.

        I probably spent less than 1000 for my main networking gear- router, PoE switch, couple of proper enterprise WAPs. The switch and WAPs were secondhand. I can't remember my camera/DVR costs but it wasn't much- Hikivision IP cameras + a license for BlueIris slapped onto a home server.

        I'd take the rest of the 20K and sink it into double glazing or solar… stuff that's going to save loads of money. Not prettied up consumer networking kit with an uncertain EoL date.

        • XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 23:36

          I guess we arent in the business of IT equipment, so thought that would be suitable based on what we spent on the business outfit. We have a lot of work from home stuff so wanted professional equipment not home based (good for tax???) .

          Thanks for the ideas about the house, i will definitely review it and put the money elsewhere now. Our build already has double glazed, argon filled, low e windows and a 10kw solar system to be installed so we are good to go as per your ideas.

          When putting it all together it came to about 7k, which i thought was great.

          Would you recommend something else????

          • rumblytangara on 31/08/2023 - 09:00
            +1

            @XCelR8: I'd recommend separates and not locking yourself into a company that's previously shafted customers at short notice.

            But if you don't like tinkering, then I guess the Unifi (or Omada) stuff should be okay for networking then going with an actual security camera company.

            I see people recommending the online wifi config tool from Ubiquiti, where you upload a floorplan. If that's still the same tool as a couple years ago that draws circular rings around APs, it's just a marketing gimmick. For AP performance you need to take into account for materials- sheetrock is pretty much transparent to wifi, brick will degreaser signal somewhat, concrete walls, bathrooms and laundries will degrade signal a lot. Off memory that tool doesn't even distinguish between 2.4 and 5GHz ranges (there's a really big difference).

            • Twix on 31/08/2023 - 09:47
              +1

              @rumblytangara: Ubiquiti design centre tool was updated. There are options to add different wall materials and it shows the difference between 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

          • Lichen6420 on 31/08/2023 - 19:56

            @XCelR8: Ubiquiti is easy to use, all integrates well, good apps, UniFI protect runs the cameras, great web interface, great app and it just works. Email and push notifications for movement alerts on cameras with scheduling, motion detection zones, privacy zones etc etc

            I’ve used and installed Dahua and Hikvision gear for other people and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, it’s good stuff, hands down better value for money. But it’s just not sleek in its implementation and interfaces by comparison.

            I would describe Ubiquiti like the Apple of home networking, yes overpriced, not very customisable not open access, it is its own ecosystem, but it doesn’t need a whole lot of messing around with, it’s user friendly but also powerful enough.

            Quality is good and it just works, it’s doesn’t stuff up, it’s stable reliable and user friendly. High partner acceptance rating. Yes some gear has been made obsolete in the past with a change in path by the company but you can always upgrade to newer stuff too. Lots of factors to consider, it’s definitely not a good choice for everyone.

            If you want to tweak and play around with stuff and tinker etc then go with more open source setup.

            It’s like and android vs Apple type deal.

  • ke on 30/08/2023 - 15:56
    +5

    What you have listed is a great set up and i've seen a number of people on youtube who suggest a similar setup. So i went down the rabbit hole recently and spent months on this, these are my 2 cents

    1. If price is a strong consideration then ubiquiti gear then is probably not the best route for you.
    2. the cost to performance for the G4 Pro cameras is not the best when compared to Reolink or Hikvision cameras which can be integrated into a smart home through Home assistant (i'd suggest Home assistant Yellow or HOOBS for someone wanting to get in HA) (there are a number of videos done by "the hookup" and "lifehackster" on youtube that compare the performance of reolink and ubiquiti cameras)
    3. the reolink doorbell has quite decent reviews and integrates quite well into my smart home and since i have reolink cameras and NVR (i didn't use synology surveillance) it all ties in together.
    4. I have multiple tablets wall mounted around my house that have "fully kiosk browser" which show a livefeed of my reolink doorbell as well as my garage camera and the backdoor camera, the tablet screen is activated when someone walks past the tablet camera . The fully kiosk browser also has other lights and sensors displayed on it as well.
    5. it might be a better option to tell your builder to run cat6a for now which is about $320 per 300m roll on ebay. Cat6a and cat7 have the same max bandwidth and i think for your case would be unnoticeable.
    • XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 18:50

      Thanks!!!! I am so far down it theres no light left!

      1. We allocated just under 20k and are sitting about 9k so are pretty happy to allocate this money elsewhere.
      2. We are looking at the G5 now, it does seem pretty good, but as you say expensive. Do you know if these cameras can be integrated into Google Assistant?
      3. Definitely agree! The price for that added up!
    • exceladdict on 31/08/2023 - 08:38

      Love this tablet idea, thanks for sharing. Are you configuring the reolink doorbell to chime on smart speakers via HA? All relatively stable?

    • greater mimic on 31/08/2023 - 16:06

      Which tablets are you using? I want to set one up by my front door and would like to power it through PoE but not sure which one to get

  • rumblytangara on 30/08/2023 - 16:15
    +4

    Ethernet everywhere you might want computers or cameras, central ceiling locations for 2 APs.

    Cat 6 or 6E. Cat 7 is practically nonexistent- requires specific shielding and connectors, so if the company is quoting it, they are really talking about 6 and upselling you on a meaningless number.

    Personally I think Ubiquiti is a crap company that makes mediocre overpriced and poorly supported products, but they're not too expensive for APs, and if you like a pretty UI that controls multiple devices, then I guess that's an option. I would also avoid locking myself into one vendor- Ubquiti in the past has suddenly dropped support for their prior camera line and left people up a creek without a paddle. I avoid them now as a matter of priciple. TP Link Omada is an alternative for the networking component, but check out how big their APs are IRL first (they are big and fugly so you might want to hide them).

    I just mix and match vendors, which is why networking and computing standards exist but I understand that's not for everyone. Fanless multiport PCs for router/firewall, whatever secondhand PoE switch I can find, BlueIris DVR with Hikvision cameras (with the cameras firewalled away from internet access), ex-enterprise WAPs.

    Get the cabling in, that's they key thing. Hardware choices can come way later.

    • XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 18:52
      +1

      Yep im pretty firm on the cabling i suggested 6a, they were like future proof…but it seems the 6a will serve us for quite some time!

      Would you suggest anything else that can mange a household?

  • hoey888 on 30/08/2023 - 17:28

    Something you might not have considered, but you can always repurpose Cat6 cable into alarm cables and AV distribution.

    -I've used them to run magnetic sensors to tell if doors are open/closed. Hooked up to Konnected Alarm Panel Pro integrated to Home Assistant for true hardwired smart home
    -You can buy various adapters (HDMI over Ethernet, PoE to USB, VoIP phones)

    Cat6 is minimum. Cat6A is better with built in shielding (but make sure your keystone jacks and other hardware are 'shielded too') Honestly 100m, is nothing; you should buy a 305m reel/box with the intention of using it all. There's probably at least 400m of Cat6 in my roof space.

  • boomramada on 30/08/2023 - 18:17
    +1

    Builder has suggested a company locally but their prices are just insane for the products without install. i.e. Cat 7 100m reel for $900.

    Damn, my builder changed me like $150 per port lol

  • rocketpoweredmice on 30/08/2023 - 19:06
    +1

    Whilst the single pane etc is cool, the unifi cameras are incredibly overpriced for what they are.
    Locks you further into their walled garden and the unifi integration doesn't add much for a home setup.
    Can get entire reputable NVR/camera systems for the price of 1x unifi camera.
    Also check out their history re: NVRs, they've pulled the pulled the plug on previous current products when they decided to overhaul their NVR system, leaving a lot of people with expensive paperweights.

    Make sense to do the networking stuff in one system, whatever that may be (unifi vs omada) but would cross shop other brands for NVRs/doorbells etc.
    Reolink being one decent alternative

  • jj8aus on 30/08/2023 - 21:35
    +1

    Don't forget to consider adding cables to windows for powering and automating blinds/curtains etc!

    • XCelR8 on 30/08/2023 - 23:39

      Thanks! Probably would have forgotten, need to make sure its added to the plans just incase.

  • apple2016 on 30/08/2023 - 23:38

    Also add an UTM for security if you care about it!

  • jj8aus on 30/08/2023 - 23:44
    +2

    Where is the house and when will the home open be for all us home lab/automation/security etc etc nerds? 🤓🤣

    • XCelR8 on 31/08/2023 - 11:33
      +1

      Haha based in WA. With our archaic NBN might be able to get 2 extra people on :S

  • Thinkscape on 31/08/2023 - 08:56
    +3

    Conduits are the single best future-proofing methods for future cabling standards, mediums (i.e. fiber) etc. Consider good quality conduits and access panels for all your cabling, just like they do in office buildings. Make sure they are insulated and not thermally bridging anywhere.

    Keep in mind that security system external cabling (for PoE cameras) needs to be of the shielded variety (T/UTP or better F/FTP, S/FTP, SF/FTP) pre-installed, then exposed (coming out of wall, insulated, weather-proofed).

    If you're into LED lighting (which can lift even the dullest of spaces), research or get a consultant to pre-wire LEDs and have spaces/cavities for the LED power supplies/controllers.

    If you're building home cinema/media room, that's a whole different can of worms. Larger conduits, ceiling conduits, pre-wiring all speakers, power supply to subwoofers etc.

    Out of many home creature comforts, I'd vote for floor heating high. Many do proper liquid-based+heat pump floor heating of all floors, but the cheapest and noticeable will be floor-heating your bathrooms. If it's electrical, that requires pre-wiring and special matts that go under the tiles + power delivery, control panel on wall etc.

    Bonus: if you're not from/born in Europe, then do take a look at basics of home energy management. If your builder advertises "oh duh double glazed windows and solar" or quotes BASIX at you, then they're basic. I wouldn't build below CERTIFIED NatHERS 7 stars (which depending on state will be the law). That means proper insulation, no bridging. The best triple-glazed Swedish windows mean absolutely nothing if everything around them transfers or releases heat outside. Same applies to slab insulation, proper roof and under-roof insulation, and a million other small details where heat escapes, draught comes, or hot transfers inside.

    • AustriaBargain on 31/08/2023 - 14:57
      +1

      Double glazing is half energy saving and half something to show off to the neighbours and visitors in England. Like building a sunroom, it's keeping up with the Joneses just as much as it is about paying for itself in energy savings. Australians are a bit more about bare minimum utility I think, so our houses aren't insulated to shit because we don't care so much what people think about our homes. We just want the homes big and our gardens big.

  • backpaqer on 31/08/2023 - 10:17
    +1

    The Angry Dad's Guide to Awesome Home WiFi

    But read lots of ubiquiti forums if you're DIYing, there are lots of traps for the unwary.

    and up to 10GB and 25GB here

  • pencilhead on 31/08/2023 - 12:26
    +2

    I did mine a 3 years ago.
    Security system?
    Cables for door/window sensors.
    Speaker cables behind walls.
    Door bell/camera + internal monitors.

    data and power cable to front gates / cameras etc.

    Cat7 is overkill.
    Cat6 is fine.
    Even 6a is too much. It isn't needed in a home environment with short cable runs.

    Make sure sparky adds a Neutral to EVERY light switch so you can use smart switches.

    Put conduit (100mm pvc waste pipe) under driveway so you can run cables if needed.

  • Gary Felcher on 31/08/2023 - 13:41
    +1

    I went 24 Port POE+ in my house , I would also cable in data points for your Mesh Wifi satellite network if you get one for better speed. If you run security cameras over POE which is ideal you will fill up at least 10 or so for inside/outside the hours

  • wau2 on 31/08/2023 - 15:08

    If you’re going with Ethernet in each room, decide where the ‘central’ hub will be. Do you have nbn? What type? Where will nbn install their modem, in garage or somewhere else?

    • knk on 31/08/2023 - 18:40
      -1

      Worst case you can run ethernet to the nbn modem though

    • XCelR8 on 01/09/2023 - 15:24

      We have a central WIR where everything will be housed its pretty much right in the centre of the house - we have two voids so should give us enough space to work with. I think this seems better than the garage as we previously thought.

  • kaleidoscope on 31/08/2023 - 15:20

    i did mine with synology nas, unify (usg/ poe switch / 24 port switch / 3 aps), hikvision cameras managed by nas and bosch alarm system with ethernet unit. most regrettable purchase was ring doorbell but i havent found anything worthy switching over. cabling was cat6 and 4 years ago it cost me about $70 per cable run. all terminate at central place where i fixed a 9ru unit with all the network gear mounted with 1ru ups

  • Phattattak on 31/08/2023 - 22:15
    +1

    +Cabling
    I've worked with a lot of cablers and best quote I heard was 'better to be looking at it than looking for it'. Cable is (relatively) cheap, and if they're running cable, it takes the same effort to run 2 as it does 1. Work out where you need them and in most situations run 2. Run everything back to a central location. This could be a dedicated cabinet in a closet (I've got a small 19" rack in the garage on the wall). Land everything on a proper patch panel to enable patching.

    If you plan to have a shed, run it there too.

    CAT6 will do fine. Anyone trying to sell you CAT7 can be shown the door, you're not running a data centre. If you want that speed, might as well run MM fibre.

    Everything should be POE where possible.

    Me:
    - CAT6, 2 points to every bedroom room, 4 points to media areas, 2 in the ceiling for APs. Hindsight should have run 4 to our study for more options. CAT 6 to camera locations.
    - Run back to garge on 2x 24 port patch panels
    - Ubiquiti Nano on wall to a Nano on the shed giving a near 1Gb link

    +Centralisation
    Everything should come back to a central point for connection to your switch, including NBN termination. This should contain your router, switch, NVR (if needed) and small UPS to ride out small power outages and keep security cameras up.

    Me:
    - Custom 19" rack in garage (despite concerns about the heat, nothing has failed)
    - Patch panels
    - Router
    - Switch
    - Will add gateways for Zigbee, thread/matter etc as well as wireless blind controller (Anything that needs to be physical to control something will go here)
    - NBN Fibre being installed, NBN NTD will be placed next to the rack

    +Wifi
    1 AP per floor will likely do.

    Me:
    - Ubiquiti UAP AC Lite w/ Active-Passive POE convertor

    +Equipment
    I used to be a Ubiquiti fan, but I feel they've gone down a path of over simplification with less product diversity and a business model of locking you into an ecosystem. Use them for APs, but for me that would be it, a switch at most.

    Me:
    - Generic router running OpenWrt (the key part)
    - Cisco SG300 POE switch
    - Mini Server running NVR and container host for home assistant etc

    +Home Automation
    A segment all on its own.

    +Cameras
    I can't find the sensor size for the G5 which is concerning. I'd have Dahua/Hikvision cameras with decent sensor sizes for night vision out front, less critical elsewhere. Also you can get differnet lenses for different FOVs. There is no point having a 90deg FOV with half of it looking at a wall…..or you might want further reach down a side. Particuarlly if you're 2 storey up high and further away from a target, you might want something with a narrower FOV

    Me:
    - Dahua T5442TM-AS 4MP x2 front
    - Dahua other crappy ones covering shed and areas that aren't a point of entry

    +Logical Network
    Spend some time think about how you will separate the network and apply an addressing schema. You will get lost if everything is DHCP. Define ranges for your fixed infrastructure (routers, swtiches, APs etc), security (cameras, panel interface), home automation (lighting controllers etc). If its too hard to set a static address, reserve the address so that device keeps the same IP. Then you can have the range where devices can come and go (tablets/phones etc) as they please.

    Consider separate VLANs to provide security and segmentation. Do you want your dubious weather station connecting to the same network as your NAS or security cameras?

    • XCelR8 on 01/09/2023 - 15:26

      Thanks this is some good advice, we have two cameras for our the back - we live on a canal site so cant really access out the back unless you are on a boat or swimming :D

  • akashra on 31/08/2023 - 22:46
    +1

    A couple of things to consider. I'm running mostly UniFi gear here - but their product offerings are starting to go downhill and getting expensive.

    1. Run fibre to places that might have a lot of devices like the study or entertainment unit - then put a switch with SFP ports/switches at that location. Fibre is actually a lot cheaper than CAT7 to run.
    2. I'd suggest for a house that large you might want more than 2 APs. I have a 21sq house with 2 APs and the front one has a pretty serious load on it, so am gonna put a third one in.
    3. Create a separate location for the DVR to go. The reason being that often thieves will locate that first if they know there's cameras - the garage being the most common place - and just dump a bucket of bleach on to it to kill the video footage. If you make that device harder to find, you won't regret it. Alternatively, you could still run the PoE switch back to a main distribution area, but just run 10GbE or Fibre to that DVR. This could be a challenge if you use a UDM.
  • sajidmib on 01/09/2023 - 10:54
    -2

    Just live a normal life end of the day they will be meaning less. IMO

  • Domingo on 01/09/2023 - 12:27

    I moved into a new build 3 story townhouse recently.

    I have a cabinet in the garage for the NBN FTTP NTD, which includes a double power point and 4 LAN ports that go around the house. I wish I'd specified the cabinet - it is an nbn compliant one that isn't a standard rack size, but currently making it work.

    In the cabinet I have:

    • Ubiquiti Edgerouter X
    • TP-Link TL-SG108pe 8 Port switch with 4x PoE+ ports
    • 4 way surge protected powerboard
    • Philips Hue Gateway (to be removed once I finish setting up Sonoff Zigbee bridge)
    • Ubiquiti Unifi UAP-AC-M access point

    Inside the house in the top of the linen cupboard on the top story I have:

    • Single LAN wall socket connecting to garage cabinet
    • Ubiquiti AC6 Unifi U6 Pro
    • Tenda TEG1105PD 5 port PoE switch (PoE+ in for power)
    • Optiplex 7050 running Proxmox VE for unifi controller, homeassistant, docker and NAS

    Inside on the middle level I have

    • Single LAN wall socket connecting to garage cabinet
    • Ubiquiti AC6 Unifi U6 Pro

    Inside on the ground level in the office, I have

    • Single LAN wall socket connecting to garage cabinet
    • my desktop wired directly to the wall socket.

    I've been running for a month or so now and am happy with the setup. I've done a fair bit of custom config like creating a secondary IoT WiFi on a separate VLAN, playing around with Unifi settings to optimise WiFi etc. It was a decent amount of work getting it running smoothly but is nice now that it is all done. The PoE elements are nice as there's nothing plugged in inside other than the server and my desktop, everything else comes from the PoE switch in the garage. The Tenda PoE switch was a nice find, ideally I would have had 2 wall sockets installed up there but given I only have 1 the PoE powered switch makes it easy. I could put another server or device up there easily enough with the saved power socket.

    For cameras I'm using battery/solar powered Eufy WiFi ones. If I was going to be here for the long haul I'd get PoE cameras, but didn't do the wiring during the build and it feels like too much investment at this point.

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