Australian Consumer Guarantee and Warranties

thesilverstarman on 18/08/2023 - 10:59

I am amazed at how many people still think that warranties are relevant. The Australian Consumer Guarantee essentially rendered them irrelevant years ago. You have rights that cannot be overridden by warranties, and you do not need extended warranties.
The most relevant part of this is that a product must be durable and continue to operate and provide its intended purpose, for as long as a reasonable consumer would expect it to, having regard to its purchase price, quality and use.
Australian Consumer advocate, Choice, has published a list of expected lifetimes for devices. These are as follows:
Fridges
Budget- 6 years
Mid range - 9 years
High end 13 years

Smartphones
Budget- 3 years
Mid range - 5 years
High end 6 years

Ovens
Budget- 10 years
Mid range - 15 years
High end 20 years

Laptops- 4years
Mid range - 6 years
High end 8 years

Washing Machines
Budget- 5 years
Mid range - 8 years
High end 11

TVs
Budget- 5 years
Mid range - 8 years
High end 11 years

small aplliances
Budget- 2 years
Mid range - 4 years
High end 6 years

So this effectively means that you are covered well after any warranty ends by law. All manufacturers and retailers know are are liable. They do not decide how long something is covered. The legislation states that it is as long as a reasonable consumer would expect. If they try to tell you otherwise, cite the Australian Consumer Guarantee and if they still do not agree to cover you, contact your state consumer affairs, who will assist you. This is federal law and covers everything from toasters to cars.

For further information, go to the ACCC website and you can download consumer guides. All states and territories have the same information on their consumer affairs websites. And Choice as well as consumer law sites are also good sources of information.

Don't be ripped off. You have rights under law that overide all warranties!!

General Discussion

Comments

  • djsweet on 18/08/2023 - 11:06
    +22

    Warranties make it much easier to get service when something breaks. Relying on ACL is great if you have to, but it can be a lot more effort. Also "reasonable" life expectancy is not legislated and is open to interpretation. Just because Choice says its "x" doesn't mean a judge will agree. And if you do need a judge to agree then you will need to go to court. So yeah, warranties are worth something to save you hassle.

    • mbck on 18/08/2023 - 11:09
      +7

      Yeah choice isn't really a government body. They do some jobs well and others are pretty…silly.

      I remember they say cleaning products are not better than just water, because they test by scrubbing an area 20 times and comparing the different brands as well as water.

      Try scrubbing your whole house for 20 times lmao.

    • MercSal on 18/08/2023 - 11:50

      Reasonable is an objective determination and be made in a tribunal. No need for a court, just go through a state based consumer tribunal.

      • djsweet on 18/08/2023 - 11:52

        Sure, a tribunal can make a determination. And if the retailer doesn't agree it will still go to court…
        But either way, its better to avoid. There can be lengthy waits for the state based tribunals. Then potentially court after that. Whole process can be around a year. Who wants to do that?

    • thesilverstarman on 18/08/2023 - 18:50
      -3

      The legislation says according to a "reasonable consumer". As a consumer advocate, Choice provides guidelines that state based gov authorities can use as a guide.

      • djsweet on 18/08/2023 - 19:16
        +4

        Believe it or not, choice’s opinion doesn’t count for much and I doubt any government will be using it as a guide.

        • thesilverstarman on 18/08/2023 - 19:28

          A consumer can use guides from a consumer advocate as well as by doing other research to work out what is reasonable. The legislation says its the consumer who decides what is reasonable having regard to price, quality, time etc. Not choice, not the retailer and not the manufacturer. So the choice guides are an appropriate start for consumers.

          • djsweet on 18/08/2023 - 19:31
            +1

            @thesilverstarman: I don’t think the customer gets to decide what is reasonable. Just think about if for a second. That would make for some rife abuse.

            • thesilverstarman on 20/08/2023 - 14:45
              -2

              @djsweet: Read the legislation. It says the words"reasonable consumer". So, yes, a consumer gets to decide what is reasonable, taking into account the price paid, quality, time elapsed etc. This would need to be backed up by some research of course. Nowhere does it say that the manufacturer or retailer gets to decide? So this legislation changes the power dynamic and yes, there is no doubt will be some people who try to abuse the process, just as retailers and manufacturers have been doing. Do yourself a favour and go and read the ACCC consumer guides.

          • randomusername2017 on 19/08/2023 - 07:32
            +2

            @thesilverstarman: Tell me you've never been through the process without telling me….

    • HeWhoKnows on 21/08/2023 - 20:43

      And reasonable life expectency has nothing to do with a warranty period.

      You dont expect a device to suddently die after the reasonable life expectancy.
      And as for what Choice says - what a load of hogwash!

      How many people have dropped their smart phone and it stops working (properly) regardless of how old it is….
      So irrelevent about the price or the quality.

      Budget, mid range and high end has little to do with quality and life expectancy and more to do with performance, size and features.

    • HeWhoKnows on 21/08/2023 - 20:50

      What OP should be referring to are issues with " Unexpected premature failures" such as those that happen just outside the warranty period.
      In other words: does anyone reasonably expect a smartphone or a fridge to fail after only 18 months if it has been be cared for properly? the answer is NO, regardless of how much was paid.

      Also just because you pay a 1/4 of the price for a prepaid network locked smartphone doesnt mean it will last for a 1/4 of the expected lifetime..right?

      Manufacturers warranties are thier MINIMUM committment to supporting thier product however they make out its the maximum.

  • jv on 18/08/2023 - 11:11
    +4

    So this effectively means that you are covered well after any warranty ends by law.

    Only if you buy from an Australian store.

    • HardQuiz on 18/08/2023 - 11:35

      Store or manufacturer?

      • jv on 18/08/2023 - 11:43
        +1

        Store

  • tsunamisurfer on 18/08/2023 - 11:27
    +3

    Those lifespans seem exceedingly long in the context of warranty.

    6 years for a phone even top of the range iPhone? I doubt any manufacturer would go for that.

    Imagine claiming your iPhone 7 Plus is faulty today because it was top of the line 6 years ago.

    Of course we want our fridges and things to last 13 years but that's a bit of a stretch for warranties.

    • jv on 18/08/2023 - 11:44

      Those lifespans seem exceedingly long in the context of warranty.

      They are just words. Good luck trying to get a phone fixed for free after 6 years.

    • JimmyF on 18/08/2023 - 12:30
      +1

      Those lifespans seem exceedingly long in the context of warranty.

      Agreed, OP seems to have confused expected lifetime, with warranty and consumer rights.

      Just because a device SHOULD work for 10 years, doesn't mean it has warranty or consumer rights for 10 years.

      A car has a expected lifetime usage of 20+ years, but do you have a consumer right to repair after 18 years? No.

      • Chandler on 22/08/2023 - 14:42

        but do you have a consumer right to repair after 18 years? No.

        Well, you do.

        Remember ACL is concerned with manufacturer defects, not expected wear and tear. If you've thrashed your car and never serviced it, then you'll get nothing from the manufacturer and the government. But if you've looked after it well for 15 years and suddenly the chassis breaks? Should be covered by the manufacturer under the Consumer Guarantee.

        • JimmyF on 22/08/2023 - 14:46
          +1

          But if you've looked after it well for 15 years and suddenly the chassis breaks? Should be covered by the manufacturer under the Consumer Guarantee.

          Good luck with that….That example is happening right now for 90k isuzu vechiles with over 100 reported to have failed chassis, oh and they are only 5 years old. Guess what? The manufacturer is saying yeah nah, so good luck on your 15 year old chassis!

          https://www.drive.com.au/news/isuzu-d-max-and-mu-x-structura…

          • randomusername2017 on 22/08/2023 - 17:01

            @JimmyF: Quite simple.. only need to bring class action to assert your consumer rights under the guarantee.. /s

    • thesilverstarman on 18/08/2023 - 18:54

      A phone that exhibits faults not due to the user would be covered taking into account time and usage. You may not get a full refund for example, but a repair or part refund. Condition and use will play a part.
      A fridge should still work as a fridge, but things like handles cracking due to wear would not be covered. The idea is that a product should still perform its main function for a reasonable amount of time.

      • JimmyF on 20/08/2023 - 17:17

        A fridge should still work as a fridge, but things like handles cracking due to wear would not be covered.

        Yet you bang on later to me about "The whole idea is that we are supposed to sell items that are of sufficient quality in comparison to prices paid etc. Do yourself a favour and read the ACCC consumer guides or the legislation."

        But here you claim that a fridge that has handles that cracked shouldn't be covered!? Doesn't sound like sufficient quality product to me.

        • thesilverstarman on 20/08/2023 - 19:04

          If you read the guides you would see that it has to perform its main function. Of course, there are going to be small things due to wear that will not stop it from being used as a fridge. Have some common sense. If the handles have cracks after a couple of years then of course that should be fixed, but 10 years later is a different thing.

          • JimmyF on 20/08/2023 - 19:32

            @thesilverstarman:

            Have some common sense

            LOL but in other comments you said it was black and white. 9 year old washing machine should be covered. No factor for wear and tear in that view but here you're like, meh handles crack.

    • Sinnerator on 19/08/2023 - 08:56
      +1

      which is what they want you to think, because it PROFITS them for consumers to believe they have no rights, and for ALL warranties only to be 12 months

  • spackbace on 18/08/2023 - 11:29
    +11

    "But Choice said so" is not a valid argument, nor will the ACCC step in for the majority of minor cases

    If you argue your point for warranty coverage, and the company says no, you're generally SOOL

    • Savas on 18/08/2023 - 12:43
      -1

      I got officeworks to refund my 4 year old printer by quoting Choice … i printed off the article and showed it to them.

    • thesilverstarman on 18/08/2023 - 18:55
      +1

      The ACCC will not step in at all. That is the role of the state based departments.

  • randomusername2017 on 18/08/2023 - 11:36
    +1

    The Australian Consumer Guarantee essentially rendered them irrelevant

    Fantastic for obvious issue/remedy, but you really need to know your way around the system for grey area/interpretations.

    There are barriers to enforcement and most retailers are aware of this, expect an uphill battle when they have the slightest chance of avoiding responsibility.

    Express warranty is still the most convenient remedy for the wider consumer market.

  • KaTst3R on 18/08/2023 - 11:39
    +5

    I had a budget to mid range TV break down on me just after the 2 year mark (24 month warranty) and i had to activate ACG to force the manufacturer to provide a fix. It was a PITA to get it sorted. The amount of administration man hours i had to go through (communication from all parties, writing statements, consolidating evidence, providing all documentation etc), i would rather buy a new cheapie TV as a replacement at that point.

  • Morien on 18/08/2023 - 11:57
    +3

    Yeah, as others have said, Australian Consumer Law is great, but isn't very precise nor easy.

    My advice, be reasonable, be polite, but be persistent. IF you KNOW you are right, be prepared for a drawn out complaint. But also know that many customers ranting on about consumer law know nothing about it.

  • SBOB on 18/08/2023 - 12:19
    +5

    Choice, has published a list of expected lifetimes for devices

    i was unaware Choice was now a legal government body, responsible for providing detail to the ACCC….

    If you believe that list, well, I would love to hear the response you get when a 'high end' tv dies after a decade you and you expect to get it fixed for $0.

    • Sinnerator on 19/08/2023 - 08:57
      -1

      another person who has fallen for the BS put forward by business

  • JimmyF on 18/08/2023 - 12:26

    I am amazed at how many people still think that warranties are relevant. The Australian Consumer Guarantee essentially rendered them irrelevant years ago

    It's far easier to get a repair/fix when within warranty, no hoops to jump through.

    Australian Consumer advocate, Choice, has published a list of expected lifetimes for devices. These are as follows:

    That is choices opinion on time frames, not the ACCC opinion. So it doesn't really hold any legal weight as such. They also say expected lifetime.

    So this effectively means that you are covered well after any warranty ends by law. All manufacturers and retailers know are are liable

    Only if they want to play ball, otherwise it isn't as straight forward.

    • Savas on 18/08/2023 - 12:51

      It says it’s based on over 1,000 responses from consumers and manufacturers.

      • JimmyF on 18/08/2023 - 13:01

        It says it’s based on over 1,000 responses from consumers and manufacturers.

        and yet still carries no legal weight. The time frames are excess, they are lifetime of the product time frames, not expected warranty time frames. They are two different things.

        I expect to get 10 years out of my washing machine, but that doesn't mean I expect consumer rights for a repair at the 9 year mark.

    • thesilverstarman on 18/08/2023 - 18:57
      +1

      The legislation says it should last as long as a "reasonable consumer" would expect. CHOICE is a consumer advocate, and as such their opinion is valid in helping a consumer determine what is reasonable.

      • JimmyF on 18/08/2023 - 20:58
        +1

        CHOICE is a consumer advocate

        Advocate but not the law.

        As above, I expect to get 10 years out of my washing machine, but that doesn't mean I expect consumer rights for a repair at the 9 year mark.

        • thesilverstarman on 20/08/2023 - 14:50

          That is exactly what the legislation means. You have posted every negative comment possible, yet clearly are not familiar with the legislation. The whole idea is that we are supposed to sell items that are of sufficient quality in comparison to prices paid etc. Do yourself a favour and read the ACCC consumer guides or the legislation.

          • JimmyF on 20/08/2023 - 17:09

            @thesilverstarman:

            You have posted every negative comment possible

            You mean I haven't agreed with you that choice is the oracle of timelines or the timelines are correct.

            yet clearly are not familiar with the legislation

            I'm very familiar with it, I don't agree with choices timelines or the way you interrupted what choice said.

            The whole idea is that we are supposed to sell items that are of sufficient quality in comparison to prices paid etc

            That is does, but it isn't a black and white like you claim that a washing machine must last 10 years and not 1 day less., so at 9 years and 360 days it is covered but at 10 years and 1 day it isn't.

            There is a reason the ACCC doesn't list timeframes around these claims.

            Do yourself a favour and read the ACCC consumer guides or the legislation.

            I have, you might want to have a refresher as I don't see Choice listed anywhere on the pages as an authority to the matter.

  • foxmulder on 18/08/2023 - 12:37

    I have recently sign up to a heat pump with 300ltr tank for around $3k, originally it's valued twice that, government rebate covers half of it.. Seller mentioned 1 year warranty, and the plumber who did the tank also mentioned this 1 year thing. The system is still ok, but I wonder what's the expected life?

    • JimmyF on 18/08/2023 - 13:02

      Hot water services has the WORST warranty, Rheem and any of the companies they own, only offer 1 year parts/labour on most units. Its a joke.

    • SBOB on 18/08/2023 - 13:05

      what brand did you buy thats only one year?
      that should have been something to make you pick a different brand as most decent heatpumps are ~5+ years

      • foxmulder on 19/08/2023 - 08:57

        Sorry, reread it's meant for 5 years.

  • solidussnake on 18/08/2023 - 12:52
    +1

    When did big manufacturers listen to Choices recommendations 😂

  • [Deactivated] on 18/08/2023 - 13:03
    +1

    Choice, the ANCAP of consumer protection. Both are irrelevant when it comes to what they profess to hold knowledge of.

    • DiscountForThee on 18/08/2023 - 14:00

      People talk about ACCC and Choice all the time on these forums, but what is up with ANCAP?

      • [Deactivated] on 18/08/2023 - 14:33
        +1

        psuedo governmental agency purporting to know what they're doing. The amount on new car that have 5 star ratings yet have weak or marginal performance in key areas.

        Take the MG4 which has marginal drivers chest and rear seat occupant head prottection.

        Or the CX-60 which has marginal chest and weak upper leg protection for the driver.

        But if you go to the dealer and you get the bright and sunny "5 star crash safety" faff when in truth a marginal offset crash could result in you having 2 broken legs and ruptured femeral arteries. Though I guess parking sensors and lane keep assist is more important than, I dunno, living?

        • DiscountForThee on 18/08/2023 - 14:48

          Are there more reputable companies which report on the weak safety aspects, such as the ones you mentioned above?

          • [Deactivated] on 18/08/2023 - 15:35
            +1

            @DiscountForThee: ANCAP do report the marginal and weak areas but still give the vehicle a 5 star rating. If they really are 'for the consumer' then anything less than acceptable should get 4 or less stars. But then how would ANCAP get cars to test if they weren't provided voluntarily? Maybe for a 5 star under the table deal?
            MG4
            CX-60
            Just open the PDF links and it's there in black and white (or maybe orange, brown and red).

  • vodamerc on 18/08/2023 - 19:12
    +2

    Everything is 6 years in the UK/EU and is quite well known. Here the 'reasonable' period is much easier for a retailer to shrug off.

    Quoting choice is quite funny though. It's like when people come into my car dealership telling me redbook says their car is worth X. Go sell it to redbook then…

  • TrumpisKing on 19/08/2023 - 07:47
    +1

    Lol. Good luck getting your iPhone that's 5 years and 249 days old replaced under "Australian consumer guarantee". Suuure buddy. Maybe put your tin foil hat back on and close the blinds 🤣🤣.

    What a load of rubbish.

    • Sinnerator on 19/08/2023 - 08:59
      +1

      keep drinking the coolaid that business gives you, your a champ

  • hasher22 on 19/08/2023 - 09:13
    +3

    Buying extended warranty can be smart as it avoids the hassle of arguing and complaining about what's "reasonable" warranty outside the manufacturing warranty.

    Australian Consumer advocate, Choice, is not a government body nor a reliable source to argue for outside manufacturer warranty claims.

    I had a Sony TV from HN die at 4 years, I got 5 years extended warranty. I guarantee you HN and Sony would reject my warranty claim under reasonable clause even it's a high end TV at the time. Then I have to speak to managers, time wasted, ACCC contact…. The extended warranty put my mind at ease, the HN rep processed my warranty on the spot and gave me the same dollar amount credit to purchase towards a new TV. One of the most easiest claims ever.

  • jrvb42 on 19/08/2023 - 09:15

    If the law is ever upgraded from "reasonable consumer" to "karen", retailers will be extinct me thinks.

  • bbinc on 19/08/2023 - 09:33

    ACCC released some guidelines for Fitbit and Apple that were two years from memory.

    • JimmyF on 20/08/2023 - 17:11

      The phone one was related around contracts at the time. So if the contract was 2 years then the phone warranty should match, but it wasn't the case, people locked in to paying for 2 years but phone only had 1 year warranty.

      As a result, the defacto phone warranty become 2 years in most cases.

  • tonester on 11/01/2024 - 04:11

    The most relevant part of this is that a product must be durable and continue to operate and provide its intended purpose, for as long as a reasonable consumer would expect it to, having regard to its purchase price, quality and use.

    The legislation states that it is as long as a reasonable consumer would expect.

    Guidance on the consumer guarantee: Acceptable quality and the meaning of ‘durability’

    Australian Consumer advocate, Choice, has published a list of expected lifetimes for devices.

    How long should your household appliances last?

    this might be helpful/useful:

    Australian Consumer Law: Statutory Warranties & Consumer Guarantees - Returns, Refunds & Replacements

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