Hot Water - Electric Storage Tank or Heat Pump System?

dmb0312 on 25/07/2023 - 09:01

Hi,

We don't have gas at our house so need to decide between conventional electric storage tank unit or the newer heat pump systems. The previous owners had a tiny electric instanteous system which isn't fit for purpose so we're starting from scratch.

We don't have solar yet but planning to later this year

Some quotes I have received

Conventional Hws
Supply and install Rheem 250L Electric HWS 12yr warranty
$2578

Supply and install Rheem 250L Stainless Steel Electric HWS 12 yr warranty
$2788

Heat pump prices after govt rebate
Supply and install Rheem 270L Heat Pump HWS 7 year warranty $3404 ex GST

Supply and install Envirosun 250L Heat Pump HWS 7 year warranty
$2604

Any suggestions on which option we should go with?

Home & Garden Hot Water System

Comments

    • DJR9000 on 25/07/2023 - 09:24
      +1

      That article is so confusing. Only makes sense if you have solar as well

      • saltypete on 25/07/2023 - 09:58

        Pretty sure it is written with solar being considered - it is from Solarquotes.

  • DJR9000 on 25/07/2023 - 09:24
    +2

    Definitely the heat pump. Running costs will be a lot less. Surprised the regular electric is so expensive - we got an instant gas system installed for about that price

    • bargaino on 25/07/2023 - 10:27
      +2

      I think he is getting screwed over. A 250 litre electric is around $1000 retail. $1500 to deliver and plumb it in sounds ridiculous. It is about as complicated as installing a washing machine, though a few parts required.

      And whatever happened to traditional solar water heaters? If you don't have PV solar panels, solar heating could still be an option. Too expensive? … google says $7000 - Ouch!!

      • altomic on 25/07/2023 - 21:08
        +1

        Get a 2nd hand solar water service. I bought a replacement solarhart setup off marketplace for $250 (tank and 2 panels). Installed it myself (replaced an identical leaky solarhart system). I didnt connect the power to it as I live in brisbane and it retains hot water for 3 days.

        • bargaino on 25/07/2023 - 21:17

          Good idea, thanks. Hot water is the only reason I still have gas. It does not cost much (low daily fee in WA) but if it died, that could be the way to go.

    • Dslrfirst on 26/07/2023 - 10:09

      Gas is out.

  • Ryanek on 25/07/2023 - 09:25
    +6

    I see you're in Sydney. Are you aware you can get a new hot water system for about $50 using the Government rebate ? Your existing system just needs to be at least 3 years old and electric.

    • MS Paint on 25/07/2023 - 09:33

      Pretty sure in Vic in needs to be electric and storage (not instantaneous).

      Probably different in NSW.

    • onetwothreefour on 25/07/2023 - 13:26

      I see you're in Sydney

      Is this just for Sydney? I am on the Central Coast and am interested but I couldn't seem to find any info about which areas are eligible.

    • jason101 on 25/07/2023 - 14:18

      Exactly this - there are massive government incentives available to replace older systems with heat pumps - please check your eligibility.

      • [Deactivated] on 25/07/2023 - 15:47

        Felt like a get rich quick scheme for the 22 yr old founder.

        No need to be ageist.

    • SBOB on 25/07/2023 - 18:04
      +2

      Though you'd be wise paying for a better system than the ecogenia.. you only get the rebate once, spending a couple K for a decent mid range heat pump will most likely pay off in the long run

  • ESEMCE on 25/07/2023 - 09:35

    Solar Thermal with Resistance or Heat Pump backup are a third/fourth option if you have the correct roof orientation and the budget to swallow the upfront price premium.

  • saltypete on 25/07/2023 - 10:08
    +3

    Heat pump system is more efficient and will cost you less to run. Given the high percentage of your power cost to heat water you’ll save any extra cost quickly.
    If you add solar later this can work really well with solar if you can organise to heat your water during the day rather than send power back to the grid for a pittance.Sort of operates like a battery….

    • sareth on 26/07/2023 - 09:13

      Resistive heaters also operate like a solar battery, but cost less and last longer.

      • saltypete on 26/07/2023 - 09:37

        Resistive are much less efficient than heat pump, but not sure about reliability…
        Heat pump still seems to win out, but worth playing with the numbers for your particular situation.

        https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/heat-pump-vs-resistive-h…

        • sareth on 27/07/2023 - 11:27

          Efficiency is irrelevant if you have excess solar, which is the context here.

          Yes, resistive heaters are necessarily more reliable than heat pumps. Heat pumps have higher complexity and moving parts.

          • SBOB on 27/07/2023 - 12:08

            @sareth:

            Efficiency is irrelevant if you have excess solar, which is the context here.

            only to a degree.
            Having gone through the process/maths recently.
            - Excess solar isnt excess 365 days a year
            - Additional electrician costs for either basic timer+contactor (least cost option) or smarter relay/variable power relay to limit supply to resistive load HW system whereas many heat pumps have timers in built.

            With the rebates for heat pump systems, the 'cost' difference between the two systems was in the low hundreds of $ (for me replacing a gas hw system), and thats ignoring excess elec costs for days where solar was unable to cover the entire load.

            • lgacb08 on 27/07/2023 - 13:06

              @SBOB: If you have 10kw solar or bigger, resistive wins handout. You can pretty much get resistive hws for give away price given how many are trying to offload them, and with fit heading down to zero you're actually making greater use of your system. For a new home or switching over from gas then heat pump might be better.
              the issue we're having right now with heat pump is novelty premium and too much uncertainty about quality. Sanden or Siddon are just getting the best cream with their $7000 price tag, you'd be foolish to go that path. For that price I'll be ahead with a secondary solar just to supply the resistive tank and 5 year down the path you can find out who's the best price to value ratio, but definitely Sanden is not on the list. Remember so much praise for solarhart with their hefty solar hot water but now no one want to mention it.

          • saltypete on 28/07/2023 - 09:33

            @sareth: Worth reading the Solarquotes analysis. Covers that aspect.
            If you already have capital tied up in a resistive system the costs are different, but OP is a fresh purchase.

  • JimmyF on 25/07/2023 - 10:11
    +1

    warranty

    Yeah you better read the fine print on all these…. Rheem is the worst…. it is generally 12 months for parts and labour, the 12 year is tank only warranty for parts.

    Envirosun seems to claim a 5 yr warranty all parts and labour.

    Any suggestions on which option we should go with?

    For those prices I would go the Envirosun heat pump, but thats just me.

  • Aureus on 25/07/2023 - 10:48

    Heat pump should come out ahead in ROI. I would invest a little more and get a good brand, like Sanden.

    Electric + more solar panels is an alright option if you want a setup that will require less maintenance and less noise (although good heat pumps are usually very quiet).

  • Drakesy on 25/07/2023 - 10:52
    +2

    Heat pump or bust

  • dmb0312 on 25/07/2023 - 15:39

    For those saying heat pump. Any recommendations for companies registered to get the rebates? The ones who are just pushing the rebates all feel dodgey (bad websites, offshore call centres and less than 12 month ABN). The quote above is for a local plumber who specialises in hot water and has been around 20+ years

    thanks!

    • SBOB on 25/07/2023 - 18:06

      You're local plumber is likely applying etc and other rebates, just selling you a decent mid range heat pump and not something built to be able to be sold for effectively $0

      I recently had an iStore installed by a local hot water company to replace a gas system. It was much more than $33 but I expect it will outlast many ecogenia installs.

      • dmb0312 on 25/07/2023 - 19:10

        Thanks. Yeah it did sound like that was the case. Of course happy to pay more than the $33 those companies promote for something different just wasn't sure how much a decent system should cost. If you're in NSW would you mind recommending those who installed for you? We're based in inner west of that's close by

        • SBOB on 25/07/2023 - 20:09

          not in sydney so no point on recommendations

          Same Day Hot Water would be worth getting a quote from. They were cheaper than some local installers for me, including their travel time (but i didnt want the hassle of a plumber being 2 hrs away if there was an issue)

          Brands like iStore (join the MEEH facebook group and quote that group when asking for a quote to get $200 off) and Apricus examples of mid range options (iStore seems better supported)
          Brands like Reclaim and Sanden top of line but harder to justify ROI on the extra capital expense.

          I think you'd be >$2k for the mid range units. Mine was about $3k including needing a dedicated circuit being installed

          • kiitos on 26/07/2023 - 08:42

            @SBOB: What would the top brand give over the others? Is it triangular or performance.

            • SBOB on 26/07/2023 - 09:39
              +1

              @kiitos: Generally CO2 based compressors, high efficiency index, better build quality, quieter operation, expectation of installation likely to higher quality/standard, expectation of longer operational life.

              There's a price premium for them, and I couldn't justify the cost difference from quality mid range to top of the line, but some can

    • Venks79 on 26/07/2023 - 22:19

      It's true almost all of them have bad websites and funny I came across this post just a week after I redesigned one such website for a company doing heat pumps through the govt schemes (ESS in NSW) Learnt a lot about heat pumps in the process. I'm doing more work with them and can get them to give you a call if you like. Guy is in Melbourne and his business partner operates in Sydney. Won't put the link here unless I'm told it's not against the rules.

  • jthurley on 26/07/2023 - 08:49
    +3

    As long as you have space for the heat pump, this is by far the best option. Your usage costs for a heat pump will be up to 5 times lower (check the COP on the units you look at). I got a heat pump a year a go to replace gas and haven't looked back. It doesn't matter if you have solar or not but some you can program to only run during solar producing hours (I do this and with a family of 5 have never run out).

    Check out this page from the MEEH page on Facebook: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1cqLTr3cJ5LD_3wZf…

  • Nic9 on 26/07/2023 - 09:14
    +3

    We’ve had an iStore 170l heat pump for a year now - it’s fantastic. It’s set to heat once per day (from 10am to take advantage of our solar, so effectively free)… that’s enough for 4 showers per day. We could set it to reheat overnight, but it’s not necessary.
    We went with a plumber recommended by iStore and he was great.

  • Dee333 on 26/07/2023 - 10:39

    Definitely the heat pump. We have one installed and it has made a big difference in cost over time.

    • dmb0312 on 26/07/2023 - 15:49

      Thanks! Can i ask what size system you got and how many people in the house? There's only two of us now but planning ahead so thinking a 250 or 270 system to save upgrading in a few years.

  • 2esc on 26/07/2023 - 19:29

    Replaced our electric hot water for a heat pump hot water free through a Vic Gov deal. Made a big difference to power bill.

    • quog on 28/07/2023 - 15:53

      how old was the old dhw?

      insulation likely played the biggest part in energy savings.

  • Rahonui on 27/07/2023 - 17:38

    I would steer clear of Rheem - plumbers i have talked too dont see the value. You're paying for a name essentially.

    We got a sanden 300 heat pump. Family of 4, no issues with it in 12 months. Got it installed as part of a solar install, so couldnt tell you the specifics of how much it has saved us. I can tell you that it is quiet and very efficient, we have it set up so it heats the water off peak so if its not running off our solar, its at least doing it as cheaply as possible

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