Hey OzBarginers,
If you live on an apartment, do you already have our allowed to install charging requirement for your EV? I'm on our committee, but strata management says it's too expensive to organise and not worth it. I'm planning on getting an EV really soon and don't want to rely solely on public charging
I've created a survey to understand the current and future of electric vehicle use, especially EV charging. Data is for personal use only as I'm trying to convince my strata management to allow install of EV charging equipment. Feel free to fill it in as it's anonymous if you'd like it to be.
If you think I'm missing any questions, let me know.
https://forms.microsoft.com/r/GmCd0gWXcg
Does Your Apartment Strata Allow Installation of Electric Vehicle Charging Equipment
CoatsyJnr on 27/06/2023 - 12:51
Comments
Isn't it largely irrelevant what others are experiencing? Each committee will make their own decisions for that site.
Out of interest, who did you propose would be paying for the charging, or is it a user-pay system?
User installs their own EVSE, just need to get power run to the charging spots
Are you proposing every car park spot be allowed to install their own EV charge?
Why not? If they are paying and it's metered to their apartment. There are chargers that you can install that pull up from the ground rather than taking space.
@seannami: As long as the building's electrical networks is up to the job and does not add new cost (e.g. addl strata insurance) for the non-EV owners, OR if all residents are OK with the new cost, why not indeed? Might even be a standard feature in new constructions in a few years.
@brandt: Coincidentally just learned that as the construction industry is changing towards 7 star energy efficient buildings, part of it includes having pre-installed infrastructure to each parking space. No charger unit, but atleast the cables are already there, and the major infrastructure (substations, switch boards etc) should account for it.
Always wondered who pays for the electricity to charge the vehicles? How do you manage user-pay in an underground car park?
Also how does the building supply manage the additional load? 1-2 cars might not be an issue but when it eventually becomes 100-200+ cars all charging overnight?
And who manages / resolves the disputes when someone leaves their vehicle in that space for an extended period, preventing others from using the charger?
OP is looking to install one at his allocated private carpark spot (on his unit cms title) for own use only. Not on visitor / public / shared carparking.
Perhaps, it isn't clear from OP's post.
Otherwise why would their strata management be concerned about costs (assuming that OP would pay for it to be installed)?@CoatsyJnr: Who is the "we"?
If I was on that committee, and someone wanted to install power and charging installation to their parking spot, I would expect that owner to seek approval to do that work but to cover all costs (direct and indirect).@GG57: I mean, power needs to be run to parking sports. By we I meant the building, but want specifying who posts for it
Unit 1 pays for Unit 1 Charging plugged directly into Unit 1's electricity board. That's the easiest. Given it's only a few thousand to supply and install, doesn't make much sense to make it a shared utility.
If Unit 1 goes on holidays, can he turn off his socket to prevent free rider extension cords plugged into his socket?
The one installed in our building is the Wallbox. You can turn it off, schedule, monitor it via the app.
but when it eventually becomes 100-200+ cars all charging overnight?
that isnt going to happen anytime soon… lol,
Recently been through this discussion for a commercial property. The main issues were
- Distance from switchboard. Costs get significantly higher if additional cabling is required. Secondary issue of whether your allocated space is close/far and how the cost would be shared.
- Existing load capacity (and futureproofing). Can be very expensive if upgrades are needed for projected EV load
- Insurance. Seems to be some reluctancy or punitive pricing from building insurers for EV charging on perceived fire risk
- Metering. Easiest if it can be directly wired to your meter, otherwise may need RFID cards to track usageBut to help your argument, you should raise that it is attractive to investors & tenants plus there are charging installation grants available.
One unit in our block has an ev charger in their allocated parking spot. They paid for install and its on a seperate elec meter so they pay all costs. I doubt a shared one would work without disputes.
Did they pay for the increase in insurance too? or has nobody spoken to insurance company yet?
Honest question
I dont think insurance has been discussed or thought about. I dont think it will arise unless the broker specifically asks next year …
Fire risk?, elevated building insurance? Fire is a real risk, and are vastly more intense than conventional fuels ~ U-Tube has interesting examples!! This is not an easy call, but good luck with it.
A common misnomer. ICE vehicles are anywhere between 20-100x more likely to catch fire than an EV.
https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-ti…
https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasolin…
https://www.familyhandyman.com/article/are-electric-vehicles…While ICE are more commonly catching fire, how are the statistics for parked at home vs parked while charging. I’d imagine crashing and catching fire is far more common that just erupting into flames for an ICE.
EV charging in an apartment block is one of those things that is a great idea in principle, but quickly becomes an expensive nightmare in practice.
EVs use a lot of power when they are charging. There's enough spare capacity in the power supply system for the first one, and the second, but when it gets to more than a few the system that was designed and built to supply relatively small amounts of power to a lot of apartments exceeds its capacity and requires an expensive upgrade that all owners will have to put their hands very deeply into their pockets to pay for, even if they don't see themselves getting any benefit from. Its easy to see why the apartment owners who don't have EVs don't want to give permission.
A whole underground car park full of car spaces all with EV charging outlets is obviously the most flexible arrangement, but it creates the possibility that a large percentage of them could all choose to charge at the same time, which would put a huge load on the building's power supply. And would require a hugely expensive upgrade.
The obvious way to start would be to fit charging to some car spaces, and assign them to residents who have EVs. But in apartment strata plans particular car spaces belong to particular apartments, and they can't be allocated flexibly by the strata on a needs be basis. And if its done that way, rather than wiring chargers to particular apartments meters, how can it be billed? Who pays?
Its a nightmare that no-one I know is planning ahead for.
Its like the problem of what happens if a number of Teslas turn up in any of a lot of small Australian towns and all want to quick charge and be on their way. Where does the power come from? A lot of these small towns have power supplies that just don't have the capacity, let alone the spare capacity. At least in an apartment block you can limit each car space to a single phase slow charger.
As a former apartment resident & committee member for a decently sized set of apartments (~200 apartments?), we never had any requests for EV charging points to be installed. Nor were there shared EV parking bays installed when the apartments first went up. We were also aware of many EV owners in the building, at least one of which was a committee member. Whether or not the committee opts to install EV facilities in the future is unknown, but I highly doubt it will occur.
Personally, I'm all for the usage of EV's assuming the source is also clean(er) or heading that way. And would support the installation of EV charging facilities, or at least provide allowances for future installation where ever possible. Also filled in the questionnaire, good set of all around questions~ Though some may baulk at or change their answer to the 'who pays' answers depending on what they may know about the costs. Even if they were just renting the dwelling.
Now for the slightly more sceptical professional side of me. As an Architect, i'm aware of how various services are integrated into the building fabric and the below is for context and awareness. Not to put down the idea of installing EV facilities which it may seem. breathes in…here we go.
Good news is that new developments, especially larger ones, are required to put in a shared EV bay. But how this then gets managed by the OC is never quite clear. Does the OC provide this service & electricity 'free of charge', but then gets reflected in the OC budget which everyone pays for? Or it is managed via RFID / Apt Fobs / Cards like some public systems? I don't think i've ever seen this get properly addressed.
- Infrastructure i.e. Car -> Meter -> Main Switch Board -> Substation -> Feed in Line
Biggest hurdle is the infrastructure behind getting the charging point to the car, and everyone's circumstances will differ. Smaller units (without substations or shared mains switchboards) may be able to run a short cable from their meter location to their car spot without having any major upgrades.
However larger developments will more than likely hit a cost prohibitive wall if not a literal solid barrier which renders EV charging stations physically impossible.
If a private charging space is required, installation of a new meter in the basement (apartment meters are generally on the level of the apartment), cable runs through common areas to the main switch board all need to be considered. As well as if the switch boards, substations or even the high voltage line coming into the property have sufficient capacity to allow for 1 or more EV's charging simultaneously (Electrical engineering required here). Depending on the number of EV's requesting spaces, eventually something along the chain will need to be upgraded with costs increasing the further down the chain one goes, but also is reliant on having the physical space to install them. Apartment sized mains boards & substations are massive & expensive, and one does not want to change these if possible.
If using a shared facility, all of the above along with management issues as mentioned. Also common visitor / shared parking spaces would have to be surrendered for EV usage.
- Fire
This isn't widely discussed in the industry yet, but its the stuff of Fire Engineer's future nightmares. We're aware of the recent recladding issues, and the level of regulation changes which resulted from it. However, no updates as of yet regarding EV's in basement carparks or the possible effects of having large scale charging facilities in any given location. Hoping information in this field is better understood and updated quickly, and before one vehicle sized Galaxy Note 7 decides to happen. And then who would be liable?
I'm luckily on the strata committee with 1 other. Our building is 8 units
Oh well that should make things easier. Reading through some of your other replies as well about being outside, and just running power to your parking space.
But I guess what we're not 100% clear on is:
- Are you proposing to install a private charger to just your parking space? If so, and you're willing to cover the costs, then I don't see why Strata would raise cost concerns. Costs would include running power from the meter to the charging location.
- or Are you proposing to install a common use charger?
You also mentioned 'spots'…so how many are being installed? for whom?
We have 8 spots, 5 on one side and 3 on the other of a common wall. My spot is round the back. I'm an thinking of proposing that we as strata cover power to the wall and from there it's up to the unit to install either a plug or dedicated charger
Fire
Good point. We had a fire in a space near our meter room in our underground parking. It wasn't an EV, just someone who thought a good place to dump and set fire to a stolen car used in a robbery was in our building's underground car parking. With the difficulty putting lithium battery fires out it would have done a lot of damage.
Our building is also 58yrs old
Is it possible to install a commercial charger in a shared space? Downside is you’ll need to pay for the charge but it’s a potential work around for now and better than having to go find a charger when you need one.
No shared spots in our building just the 8, 1 per unit
I doubt many strata bodies are ahead of the curve in this regard. EVs are still relatively new in Australia.
New builds in Australia might see EV chargers built into the design. No surprise to me it's a PITA to get an EV infrastructure installed into an existing building.
God bless stratas and their inability to innovate.
but yeah unfortunately until more people buy EV's you may be SOOL
It should be fairly easy if the fuse board is close by.mind you, the cost (as the first) wil likely be borne entirely by you.
The other owners shouldn't really have to shoulder a bill that benefits only you.When people think about "charging" an EV, why does it have to be a fast charger. A simple power point or a 15A socket is more than enough.
I know
it seems fairly simple to run 15A power from the switchboard to everybody's car spot and put a physical lock on each outlet.
The weight of the vehicles is also a problem for apartment blocks apparently.
Having recently been through this on the Owners Corporation committee side of such a request in an existing building the issue is largely around the cable run to the parking spot, and installation of the charger 'near' to the parking spot.
In Owners Corporations there are two main divisions of space. Private Lots, and communal space. In your private lot, you can do whatever you want in alignment with the OC rules. In the communal space it is only the OCs that can do stuff, and it must be in the interest of the majority of owners, and not negatively impact certain owners over others.
This becomes the problem with installing EV infrastructure in an already subdivided and sold OC. Installing EV charging cables in the communal space does result in impacts to other members of the OC. They can no longer use that space in the same way that they did before, and they are also impacted by things like insurance premiums increasing..
It's definitely much easier to get it integrated into the initial build / subdivision of the complex.
Where’s Chris Bowen when you need him….
Yes but user cost. Required strata approval as the cables would go via common property / would be classified as a major development given the high voltage. Note l am in WA.
Strata laws in WA have changed so its important to read up on them. For example the strata can not prevent you from building a disable ramp at your own cost no matter how terrible it looks. Or installing solar panels. Really they should have included EV in this point.
I don't own an electric car yet but have been researching it for a while. According to SolarQoutes.com.au currently I could use the regular Australian powerpoint to get about 10 km of range per hour with the provided Level 1 cable. It will take around 4 hours to charge it enough for an average day's commute of 40 km. I would plan to charge it longer for my longer trips on the weekends or leave it charging overnight. This suits me as I work close to home and weekend travel is usually less than 50km.
Level 2 shared charging stations preferably with a solar battery integration is the answer for longer commutes. For it to be installed in established units it will need state/fed incentives to make it safe/equitable.
New builts definitely need mandatory Level 2 charging facilities to future proof our transition to EVs.
EV uptake is increasing daily around the world, especially with lowered manufacturing costs and government incentives before new ICE vehicles are phased out in around 12 years time.
Building owners/BC, town planners and government need to be looking at electricity grids NOW, not in 10 years time when you could potentially have a 300 apartment complex have 60+ EVs wanting to charge off-peak overnight. Either the building needs to be built with future proofing in mind, or everyone wanting the luxury of charging at home get deep pockets to install, upgrade and pay for it to be installed.
Sure there's supercharging and other networks, but people need to look broadly at the network, because that 300 apartment complex will be next to 20-30 other towers also wanting more from a grid that can't supply the added demand.
Remember that brown & blackout warnings are given during hot days with air-conditioning stressing out the grid during heat waves. And with a lot of people WFH, they'll be charging at home also.
It's an issue which isn't being addressed properly with these crammed together sushi boxes going for $800k+…..but if the BC or builder hasn't planned for it, then be prepared to charge elsewhere or pay squillions to have a new-style service station build in your basement.
Thank heavens for self-sufficiency in the country air, solar roof, battery and no power bills.👌😊
Good points. I'm not sure who owns the responsibility of creating the infrastructure though.
If we look at other vehicle types, the user was provided with the refuelling solutions by other parties (i.e. fuel companies). That includes fuel stations, or fuel delivery to depots, farms, etc.
For EVs, we are seeing some of that, but Australia is hampered by the low population density and large geography which doesn't efficiently support some of the solutions in place in some countries such as those in Europe with high population density.
There must be an optimum solution out there, but I can't think of it.
Perhaps self-charging hybrid vehicles are a better option for Australia until the better refuelling option is identified and implemented.There must be an optimum solution out there, but I can't think of it
Petrol and diesel. No other existing products have the energy density (uranium etc excluded)
We asked our strata company for permission to install a power point for our Tesla model 3 at our car bay (which conveniently is next to a wall in the underground carpark). After some to-and-fro, we were approved as long as the point was connect to our power meter. We got a local company to do the installation, which went smoothly. Cost less than $3K. They actually installed a 15A point, which is enough to charge our Tesla overnight.
Suggest you talk to your insurance company first. The fire brigade has a strict policy of not dealing with lithium battery fires as their heat is astronomically high and cant be extinguished easily. All new developments are excluding charging stations in carparking until this gets resolved
We had a request to install in our building (VIC, only a few levels). Car spot was on same level as electricity boards. They just ran the power through the existing cable trays and connected directly to unit's switchboard. Didn't require committee or OC manager to do anything other than approve. Might be a different story for a large building where electricity is very far away.
EV charging is a great promotional/selling point for potential renters/buyers and adds value to the property. Committees & OCs should be doing whatever they need to do to get it done.