Another Who Should Give Way Discussion

Euphemistic on 25/05/2023 - 07:16
Last edited 25/05/2023 - 07:18

https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/107873/103905/e971797a…

If I’m in the blue car stopped and waiting to turn right because of the orange cars are going straight. I assume the red car can pull out to turn right behind it which then means I need to wait for the red car. The road where the red car is coming from can have several cars turning right. This could leave the blue car in a vulnerable position to be hit from behind. Both side streets have stop signs.

Note, this doesn’t happen a lot, there aren’t hundreds of cars at the intersections, but I have waited for a red car a couple of times.

Should the red cars not move until the blue car has turned?

What would you do/expect? Thoughts please?

Edit: prepare for edits as I wrap my head around response from the squad.

Poll Options

  • 89
    Blue car is just gonna have to wait for red cars.
  • 5
    Red car could wait a little to allow blue car to turn
  • 3
    Just one of those intersections that doesn’t quite work but it’s not bad.
  • 3
    That really needs a redesign.
Automotive

Comments

  • Nugs on 25/05/2023 - 07:21
    +19

    Blue gives way to red once red is also on the main road, however if blue is paying attention it would likely make it's turn safely if red has any hesitation to pull out
    .

  • Flying Ace on 25/05/2023 - 07:27
    +7

    Those are two seperate intersections, because they are offset by so much. Therefore once the red cars turn out from their road they are on the main road, and you would have to give way. However as Nugs says above, if you're quick you'd have time to turn before the red cars became a factor.

  • Hellfire on 25/05/2023 - 07:41
    +3

    It depends if its safe for blue to turn. Red can move first onto the main road and this might not leave enough time for blue to turn. Or if red is slow then blue might be ok to turn.

    Edit. I guess what I am saying is that you don't technically need to wait for red as they aren't part of your intersection but if they join the main road then you do.

    • jjjaar on 25/05/2023 - 08:32
      +1

      you don't technically need to wait for red

      Exactly. It’s all about timing here. This is the difference between stopping and giving way. (Something a lot of drivers don’t realise, especially at roundabouts, pulling to a complete stop when a vehicle on their right hasn’t even entered the roundabout yet 🙄)

      • dasher86 on 25/05/2023 - 13:22
        +1

        (Something a lot of drivers don’t realise, especially at roundabouts, pulling to a complete stop when a vehicle on their right hasn’t even entered the roundabout yet 🙄)

        sadly many people think give way to right at roundabouts still exist.

        If the vehicle to the right of me doesn't look they are are slowing down to be able to give way to me, I would rather stop then get into a bingle and try explain i was in the roundabout first.

        conversely when people stop and there's heaps of room pisses me off too.

        • jjjaar on 25/05/2023 - 14:01
          +2

          Exactly, you judge the safety of the situation. You shouldn’t just always fly through and you shouldn’t just always stop. But so many people don’t assess the situation until they’ve stopped. Arguably, yes, that’s a safer way to do it, but it’s not the point of a roundabout, which aims to improve vehicle efficiency (not safety of any road user), but not needing a stop.

    • Chandler on 26/05/2023 - 16:36

      you don't technically need to wait for red a

      You're right: the blue car doesn't need to wait for the red car to perform their turn, but once the red car is on Kahibah Road the blue car is obligated to give way.

  • Meho2026 on 25/05/2023 - 07:53
    -8

    Blue car can turn after giving way to straight ahead orange cars.
    Red car is at stop sign. Red car must give way to orange and blue cars.

    • blitz on 25/05/2023 - 09:01
      +2

      Red car is only obliged to give way to blue car if blue is going straight. But if blue is turning as in the picture, then red can depart the holding line as soon as both directions are clear.

    • pegaxs on 25/05/2023 - 09:51
      -1

      Red car must give way to orange and blue cars.

      LOL… Ok, champ. Yes to the red car. But they dont need to give way to the blue car that is turning down the street at the next intersection.

    • turbochris on 26/05/2023 - 08:28

      Hand in your licence

  • lostgoat on 25/05/2023 - 08:37
    +1

    Your a Champ OP this one is a no brainer.

    • Euphemistic on 25/05/2023 - 09:32

      I pretty sure I know what I’m doing. I’m trying to get an idea if others think the same. This helps me drive more defensively. If you can anticipate the clowns, you’re less likely to be involved in a crash.

      • pegaxs on 25/05/2023 - 09:49
        +2

        And I love the people who reply "This is so obvious, hand in your license, OP, So dumb" yet are not willing to offer an actual answer.

  • blitz on 25/05/2023 - 09:03
    +5

    That really needs a redesign.

    Why does it need a redesign? There are thousands and thousands of intersection groups just like this all over the country. It's a part of normal driving.

  • El cheepo on 25/05/2023 - 10:00
    +2

    Its questions like these why i believe that people should be retested every 5-10 years on the road rules.

    (Orange, red then blue)

    Many people are even more clueless as to how roundabouts work though.

    • JimmyF on 25/05/2023 - 10:04
      +5

      Agree…. Plus more 'testing' for drivers relocating here to understand the road rules better.

      • El cheepo on 25/05/2023 - 10:14
        +4

        Yep, if you have come from somewhere where there are no firm rules, you should have to do a full test (theory and driving) in my opinion.

        I’ve driven in many places with lax or non existent road rules (none obeyed anyway)
        It works where they are because everyone drives defensively, only does 50-60ph max on most roads and is use to the chaos.

        That doesn’t work on the roads here.

        • GordonD on 25/05/2023 - 15:13
          +2

          where there are no firm rules

          The "naked roads" concept has actually worked surprisingly well where it has been tried. This is taking away the rules and the signs and leaving it up to drivers courtesy to each other and to pedestrians to prevent crashes. A certain sort of person who needs lots of rules and expects everyone else to know them all and obey them all, or be punished severely, probably wouldn't believe that. But it does. And that's how grown up experienced mature drivers drive. Its only the immature inexperienced who need lots of rules rigidly enforced.

          We saw it when the power went out right across South Australia a few years ago because of weather damaging a critical transmission line. On even the busiest road without any traffic lights operating there wasn't chaos, with huge numbers of crashes. The traffic flowed pretty much normally because drivers drove to the conditions instead of the rules.

          • El cheepo on 25/05/2023 - 15:25
            +1

            @GordonD: Im more confident riding a motorcycle in a third world country with no rules through a four way intersection with no traffic lights then sitting at a red light in Australia.

            People all have a me first attitude and the inattention mixed with our average driving speed is scary.

            It’s just not Australian culture to be yielding on the road and everyone is in a rush.

            Where as in some other countries without the rules, everyone is just cruising At reasonable speeds (except a small minority of people).
            They will almost always yield and not het upset because someone got in front. It just works.

            • andresampras on 25/05/2023 - 18:52
              +1

              @El cheepo: I think you're remembering this through rose-tinted memory lenses.

              The speeds on those asian roads tend to be lower due to the sheer number of vehicles on the roads.

              And the number of casual bingles at low speed is mind boggling.

            • iCandy on 26/05/2023 - 09:13
              +1

              @El cheepo: I absolutely hate the entitled - I will block 2 lanes because I was in the wrong lane, rather than do a blockie or a u turn to get into the right lane.

    • pennypacker42069 on 25/05/2023 - 10:27
      -2

      Looks like you need to be retested lol

      • El cheepo on 25/05/2023 - 10:39
        +1

        I’ve sat and passed the theory test first shot 5 times in the last 15+ years.
        (Car, 3 truck licenses and motorbike)

        Judging by your reply below it seems as if you are the one that needs retesting…

        • pennypacker42069 on 25/05/2023 - 11:32

          I think the problem is the legislation is a bit vague for this situation. It says cars at a stop sign must give way to anybody approaching an intersection. But it doesn't give a clear definition of what it means to be 'approaching an intersection' and whether this would apply to blue.

          The legislation is clear that cars turning right are not required to give way to somebody waiting on a side street on their left, so blue is free to turn right unless red has started moving already.

          So whoever moves first has right of way. Whether red is legally allowed to move first depends on how you want to interpret the word 'approaching'.

          • El cheepo on 25/05/2023 - 13:31
            +4

            @pennypacker42069: I understand your point, but in this exact situation as illustrated, it’s clear.

            There is no reason the red car wouldn’t pull out directly behind the orange, thus the blue must wait.

    • Euphemistic on 25/05/2023 - 15:45
      +2

      Totally agree with regular retesting. It would be very easy to use the infrastructure for learners to test every person at licence renewal. Give them maybe 10 random questions. If they get them wrong, give them the answer but make them answer another different question for every wrong answer.

      • El cheepo on 25/05/2023 - 18:08

        Yep, even making it possible to do at home would surely give more opportunities for people to refresh their road knowledge.
        (Yes, thats open to just anyone doing it for others, but still better then nothing)

  • JimmyF on 25/05/2023 - 10:02
    +1

    Who Should Give Way

    You aka Blue car need to give way to all oncoming traffic in the lanes you are attempting to cross.

    So if the red car can turn right and enter the oncoming lanes you are attempting to cross, now making it not clear, you continue to wait and giveway.

  • pennypacker42069 on 25/05/2023 - 10:06
    -5

    Red is at a stop sign and has to give way to all cars on the main road, including blue. Consider what would happen if blue changed their mind and decided to drive straight.

    However if red pulls out illegally then blue will have to give way to red.

  • iDroid on 25/05/2023 - 10:38
    +1

    Red car could wait a little to allow blue car to turn

    These idiots ruin the whole flow of the road. "Oh, I'm just being courteous to that car." (while holding up 28 cars behind them).

    • Euphemistic on 25/05/2023 - 15:42

      Depends on how much you need to slow/disrupt traffic flow.

      I regularly am in a long line of cars on a single lane road. There is a right turn bay for the other direction. If there are cars waiting to turn right, or cars waiting to turn left out of the side street I’ll slow a little. Just enough to leave a gap for a car to turn right or enter the road. It costs nothing, but helps the overall flow.

  • KaTst3R on 25/05/2023 - 10:53
    +1

    Simplest way to remember is small roads have to give way to big roads. But since Red Car has moved to the big road, it has priority.

  • GordonD on 25/05/2023 - 11:01
    +3

    I have waited for a red car a couple of times

    If they still at the STOP sign you don't have to wait for them. You only have to give way to them if they are on the same road as you in the lane you want to turn right across. At which point it doesn't matter where they've come from to get there, only that you want to cut across in front of them. So its a matter of timing.

  • playerzer2 on 25/05/2023 - 14:18
    +1

    Blue car approaches and DOES NOT ACTIVATE BLINKER.
    This forces the Red car to think they are going straight and give way.
    Blue car then turns safely and activates blinker halfway through the turn, ignoring the screams and gestures from the row of Red cars.

    • pegaxs on 25/05/2023 - 15:42
      -1

      And if my aunty had balls…

      Indicator or not, it doesn't remove the obligation to give way…

  • andresampras on 25/05/2023 - 14:24
    +2

    I think from a defensive driving standpoint, the more interesting question here is - what would you do if you were in the red car?

    Legally there is a straightforward answer, BUT a lot of the time on the roads, being 'in the right' doesn't automatically make you a safe driver.

    FWIW, my answer (to my own question lol) is: it depends.

    • lostgoat on 25/05/2023 - 16:27

      If I never gave way to all directions at a roundabout.
      I'd be spending half of my life at panel beaters.

      • andresampras on 25/05/2023 - 18:47

        ikr

        Wouldn't be surprised if the majority of drivers still believe you need to give way to cars on the right only.

  • Kremleen on 25/05/2023 - 17:03

    Blue car can go when safe, meaning no incoming traffic, aka no more orange cars. As soon as the blue car turn, if red cars turn and hit blue car from behind then red car is at fault.

    Now, if red car can join traffic and become an orange car then blue car has to wait. Red car can not make the turn if not safe and such if multiple red cars attempt to make the turn then the red car that rear ends someone is at fault.

    This is not a blanket statement for every situation that can happen in this scenario but I think I've covered the basic bases.

  • hasher22 on 26/05/2023 - 00:17

    Looking at the pic, it's blue.

    Scenario 1:
    Blue waits for orange and red, then turns right

    Scenario 2:
    Blue waits for orange, red is taking their sweet time and there's plenty of time to go, blue turns right

    Scenario 3:
    Blue waits for orange, red is impatient and is tail gating orange, blue needs to wait (not like they can turn anyways)

  • Mumbles on 26/05/2023 - 13:30

    The crowd is voting same as the law. Red car doesn't have to wait except to giveway to cars going straight.

    If its a real photo of the actual intersection then its not a crazy dangerous residential intersection.
    The cars coming out from the side streets are in a 50km/h zone but aren't capable of surprising the Red car because they have to stop at the stop sign. ie. moving 0-5km/h max.

    There is high visibility around the corner with good line of sight for about 30-50 metres.

    If speed and reaction times were a concern the next road upgrade would probably be installing speed bumps to force cars to stop where they should.

    • Euphemistic on 26/05/2023 - 13:35

      it’s a real intersection.

      If the traffic volumes increase too much it’ll need some help, but for now is OK.

      Just an observation of how residential streets stop working under increased flow.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join