EV Charging etc

Captain Hindsight on 10/05/2023 - 08:00
Last edited 10/05/2023 - 08:07

I foolishly took a Tesla model Y for a test drive yesterday now am seriously considering one as my next car - amazing addictive drive. Mainly I’m trying to workout how to charge most economically at home.

I initially thought whenever possible charge in the day while solar is best but a mate who owns a Tesla has suggested at night when electricity tariff is lower if you have time of use as the power drain is so high even a large solar system will only cover part of it and any excess is at the peak or shoulder rate.

I’m in NSW with energy Australia on single tariff plus controlled lead 2 and I believe I can hook it up to my controlled load 2 circuit( from Ausgrid )which would effectively reduce my charge cost by about 60% per kWh. Can anyone confirm having done this? My house is 3 phase power and I’ve been told I can also save money by not using Tesla charging hardware, so I’m interested to hear about this too.

Also looking for any advice in general about evs and tips or things people have learnt.

Thx in advance.

Automotive Electric Vehicle

Comments

  • MS Paint on 10/05/2023 - 08:02

    How many kilometres do you drive a week?

    • Captain Hindsight on 10/05/2023 - 08:07

      20000 py roughly

      • MS Paint on 10/05/2023 - 08:45

        I was thinking if it was lower then just to visit a supercharger once a fortnight.

        • burningrage on 10/05/2023 - 13:44
          +2

          Or use a free charger (Chargefox on free stations, Council chargers, etc) and you'll do right for at least 3-4 days if you only use the car locally.

  • Caped Baldy on 10/05/2023 - 08:23
    +12

    Just do what most Tesla drivers do, hog the free public chargers at shopping centres.

    Depending on your charging rate at home, you could get free charging if it is offset by your solar. Otherwise, charging at home is easiest. You should be able to set it up so the car only charges at certain times.

    • pegaxs on 10/05/2023 - 08:43
      +5

      And then start a fartbook group about how all the non-tesla cars are taking up these spots.

      • Caped Baldy on 10/05/2023 - 08:45
        +2

        I know that they're the most popular EV but it's ridiculous. Every time I go to the shops there's an 80% chance all spots are taken by Teslas. Meanwhile, the paid ones are available.

        • achew on 11/05/2023 - 22:58

          Sometimes they'll have checked-in on Plugshare, so you can ask for someone to move politely.
          Otherwise, yeah… some EV owners will just treat public infrastructure like it's a home charger.

          You're usually better off buying a Type 2 Mennekes cable so that you can target your use on the chargers that require a BYO cable. Easy impediment to hogs.

  • brendanm on 10/05/2023 - 08:34
    +12

    Imagine having the means to drop $80k on a car, but not being able to do a simple electricity price comparison.

    • Montyjpm on 10/05/2023 - 12:09
      +1

      Cmon man, money could be from drugs/bitcoin/rich daddy/mommy/MILF/OnlyFans etc…

    • Nugs on 10/05/2023 - 12:53
      +1

      scratchie winner?
      .

    • pegaxs on 10/05/2023 - 16:34
      +5

      Imagine having the means to buy a $80k EV and then to complain about it costing $23 to fill from empty…

  • InLaymansTerms on 10/05/2023 - 08:39

    Sent you an inbox to a video that will help :)

    • jjjaar on 10/05/2023 - 08:46
      +5

      Why not share it here for everyone? Someone may come across this forum and have the same query.

      • MS Paint on 10/05/2023 - 10:13
        +7

        It's secret EV business. It won't make sense until you test drive a model Y Tesla.

      • InLaymansTerms on 10/05/2023 - 11:51
        +3

        I’ve been banned for posting links to my own YouTube videos. It’s against the OzBargain rules.

        If you search for my name on YouTube, it’s the model Y video. I discuss the solar / charging lessons I learned.

        • MS Paint on 10/05/2023 - 12:04
          +5

          I’ve been banned for posting links

          Well I'll post it then

          • InLaymansTerms on 10/05/2023 - 13:27

            @MS Paint: Cheers man.
            To be honest I think even mentioning it as I have above is also against the rules.
            They are very strict here against self promotion.

            • MS Paint on 10/05/2023 - 13:29
              +1

              @InLaymansTerms: I haven't watched the video but if it's full of information, not monetised and not pushing any product then I don't see why you can't promote it.

              • InLaymansTerms on 10/05/2023 - 13:31
                +2

                @MS Paint: My channel is monetised. I’m definitely not selling anything.

                Yeah I thought so too until I got banned for a few weeks. So now I don’t say much.

        • jjjaar on 10/05/2023 - 17:05
          +3

          Appreciate the response. Hope you don’t get banned for answering my genuine question.

        • idonteven on 17/05/2023 - 09:05

          Awesome YouTube channel. I also make Tesla content but I guess I won't be posting it here lol. Subbed!

    • Captain Hindsight on 10/05/2023 - 09:23

      Thanks just read. Appreciate the advice, will have to read further.

  • seannami on 10/05/2023 - 09:07
    +1

    There are wall chargers that are designed only to pull from excess solar, about $2-3k from memory, but it means your charge is free (especially if you are only topping up).

    TBH, the charge cost at home is probably low enough not to worry about it too much. $12 per "tank" for a ZS EV on my single tariff, probably not much more for a Tesla, and that's granny charging with no solar. Solar would offset that a decent amount depending on your array

    • Captain Hindsight on 10/05/2023 - 09:28
      +1

      Thanks, very true the Tesla Lr y I think is 74kwh, at my day rate that would be about $23 to fill and $11 or so on controlled load. Still pretty good I agree but just keen to get best rate possible otherwise I wouldn’t be true to the spirit of Ozb.

      • pegaxs on 10/05/2023 - 09:47
        +4

        at my rate that would be about $23 to fill.

        If you are waiting until the vehicle is empty, you are doing it wrong. At 20,000km per year, that is about 50~80km per day on average. This is about 1~2 hours on a decent wall charger.

        And really? $23? For a comparable ICE vehicle, to fill up with petrol or diesel would be closer to $100.

        For some reason, one of the biggest comments I get about not wanting to get an EV is people say "Yeah, but it will kill my electricity bill and I can barely afford that now…" but forget that they no longer have this massive petrol bill they dont have to pay any more. You're complaining about a $23 hike in electricity bills but forgetting you dont have to pay $120 in petrol ever again.

        (InB4: "But my 2009 Corolla only takes $58 worth of fuel…" Yeah, well, when it grows up to become a 2.5 tonne SUV, then we will compare it.)

        • seannami on 10/05/2023 - 10:58
          +1

          This. In the Prius atm driving to work most days, I'm filling 1 and a bit times a week, and its something like $60 per 3/4 tank on a good day.

          The top ups for those trips in the EV when it arrives will be around that $12 I mentioned at most. Or I can charge at work and pay just for the parking I had to pay for anyway…

          In the end, EV on a NVL will only add $150 to my outgoings per fortnight, which is actually less than the cost of the car.

        • brendanm on 10/05/2023 - 13:32
          +1

          Just wait until the government mandates ev consumption meters at the wall, so they can ream you on tax with an ev, they same way they do with an ice vehicle 😂. Not like them to miss out on a nice revenue stream. Probably even tax you on your own solar production.

          • pegaxs on 10/05/2023 - 16:44
            +1

            @brendanm: I dont mind contributing my fair share. I think it will just be like Vic (take a photo at yearly rego) or in NSW, it will just get your odometer reading at pink slip time and that will be added on.

            What shits me though is that people in Vicwegia still have to pay the EV tax, even if they do 50% of their travel for that year in states other than Vic. I think it needs to be a federal tax and not a state-by-state tax. If one state doesn't have it, you will find that 90% of EV's will get registered in that state.

            It also seems stupid to make EV's pay a tax, only to give EV buyers $3~$6000 in incentives + no FBT and no stamp duty. At the amount of km I do a year, that $0.025/km is going to take 10~15 years to claw back what I got in the way of incentives to buy the car.

            • seannami on 17/05/2023 - 22:29

              @pegaxs: I do agree it's important we pay our share (that's what we pay rego for after all). The Victax annoys me atm is the narrative around it; "we want you to buy an EV, we really want to encourage it, but PSYCH, extra tax" (even though it'll still be quite a bit cheaper than my ICEbrid, tax included)

      • Seraphin7 on 10/05/2023 - 12:36
        +1

        true to the spirit of Ozb

        Why no Camry hybrid then?

  • Zoop on 10/05/2023 - 09:19
    +1

    You would save so much just driving on electricity versus petrol, that it would be a bit of a moot point.
    In any case, check out Charge HQ, it adjusts your Tesla's charge speed according to your current solar production, if you have a supported inverter.
    Simple comparison, assuming 15 km per litre of petrol on ICE, and 30cent/kw power:
    that 15km will cost you $1.70
    15km in an EV would cost about $0.90 (on average)
    If you're charging from solar and forgoing feed in tarrif as a result, then the power would cost 6.7 cents/kw ~ 11.2 cents/kw depending on what your feed in tarrif is.

  • nedski on 10/05/2023 - 09:37
    +1

    I know a drive of the Y can be addictive, we ended up buying the Atto 3. Highly recommend giving that a test drive as its a little smaller and $20k cheaper.

    Regarding solar, I have a 9kwh solar system which keeps it well charged in the warmer months with a 15amp charger quite nicely siphoning off the excess solar into the car at a rate of 3.1kwh during the day. In the more cooler months, My solar only generates up to 25kwh per day and I have set up a smart plug to turn on the 10amp charger to put the excess solar into the car. Only gives me about 3 or 4kwh per day but its fine. When my car gets down to 30%, I go to a fast public charger which I have free access to until the end of the year (I have a novated lease and Pepper gives me 12 months free charging at Evie).

    But when I charge overnight, its at a rate of 16c per kwh and a full car charge is like $12.

  • Captain Hindsight on 10/05/2023 - 09:41

    Thanks I like the price and look of the BYD however unfortunately a bit small for my families needs. Would save a lot on purchase I agree but I’m hoping I’d recoup that though tax benefits (it will be mixed business/personal) and resale once I move to next vehicle.

    • nedski on 10/05/2023 - 11:11
      +2

      Understandable. We have two young kids and their car seats installed and it works well for us. Getting around from Canberra to Sydney as well as the coast.

      Also keep in mind regarding the resale value of the Y. They are quite high right now but as more competitors are coming into the market and Tesla has increasing inventory due to sales slowing and them also reducing prices, you may pay a high price for a car with a greatly impacted resale value in 5 years time.

  • dtc on 10/05/2023 - 10:32
    +1

    Isnt is a simple calculation - what feed in tariff do you get if you charge at night (thus your otherwise unused solar power goes entirely to generate a feed in payment) vs what does it cost you to charge at night

    So if your feed in tariff nets you $10 and it costs you $5 to charge at night, charge at night. If the reverse, charge during the day.

    The EV people saying 'but its cheaper than ICE so whats the issue' seem to be missing the point…

    • Captain Hindsight on 10/05/2023 - 11:46

      Yes true, my question is more around whether you can actually use the controlled load circuit to charge the ev. There are some restriction on its use and I’ve read differing stories so keen to know if anyone uses CL for ev charging in NSW.

  • freefall101 on 10/05/2023 - 11:09
    +1

    Some power plans have discounted charging times, which you can then set the tesla to charge during those times. For example Simply Energy has a 6c/kw between midnight and 6am. Just set your car to charge then, charge off solar during the day, pretty cheap way to keep it going.

    • pencilman on 10/05/2023 - 12:08
      +2

      For example Simply Energy has a 6c/kw between midnight and 6am.

      If you are referring to the Simply energy EV plan, discount is 6c/kw off the normal off peak rate, not a flat rate of 6c per kW.

      • freefall101 on 10/05/2023 - 12:34

        Whoops, I misread that one completely, thanks.

        • pencilman on 10/05/2023 - 12:55

          No problems. I think it's cryptically written in the advertising to make it sound better. Had to look at the fine print to work it out.

  • Tiredman on 10/05/2023 - 12:10
    +1

    I have a Model Y and a 6.1kw solar system in Melbourne. On a good sunny day i generate about 5kwh and my car takes 4.5kwh charging with a 15A plug so nothing much goes to waste. I'm just using my UMC. 12,000km so far and just spend approx $200 in total for the running of the car. It's a great car. Absolutely love it. Can't wait for the X to come out, might get one of that!

    • MS Paint on 10/05/2023 - 12:24

      Can't wait for the X to come out, might get one of that!

      You haven't heard the news?

      Obviously not a legit fanboi.

      • Tiredman on 10/05/2023 - 12:31

        What has that got to do with being a legit fanboi? It will get here eventually. If it gets here in ten years, i will buy it in ten years. Not hard to understand.

  • Malik Nasser on 10/05/2023 - 12:41

    This may be interesting for you. Flexible EV charging to match your solar input and energy usage (breakdown @ 10:10).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSh6fQ3al2I

    • InLaymansTerms on 10/05/2023 - 19:12
      +1

      That’s cool but it’s $4500USD + tax

      Just get a Zappi v2. It has a ‘solar only’ mode. Approx $1200-1800 depending on what model you purchase.

      I’ll be installing one next week myself.
      My power bill in summer has been around $6-12/month with 100% charging my EV at home. Mind you I work from home and only charge during solar production hours (in most cases)

      During winter it jumps to about $150/month. Same scenario.
      13.3kW solar.

      Previously I typically would be filling up 2 ICE vehicles, twice a month, each. Over $100 each tank.
      Roughly $450+ a month I’m no longer spending on petrol.
      Not including serving, fluids etc.

      That being said, considerable upfront costs for solar. EV chargers etc

      • kipps on 10/05/2023 - 20:57

        Home Assistant and Tesla API can change rate of charge to match PV production/consumption with a bit of effort & can effectively do same job as a Zappi if you’re tech savvy

        • InLaymansTerms on 10/05/2023 - 21:48

          I’ve tried the chargeHQ thing with my Tesla gen 3.
          Horrible experience. Inconsistent. Some days it would work great.
          Others it will just go full speed and use grid.
          Nothing can compete with a smart charger.

  • w3dge on 10/05/2023 - 13:11

    I had a quick read but didn't see anybody note, but don't be an idiot like me, My car is at work pretty much whenever my solar is generating, so solar didn't help except offset the house usage. I then put a cheap battery on the house but the 11Kwh battery drains pretty much instantly when you consider house + car needs and after doing the math i wont reach payback for 9 years, which is pretty much never. its worse in Winter when i barely get enough Solar to even charge the battery and run the house heating.

    The good news is for my power rate, charging via electricity is quite cheap, so it doesn't really matter. Also, if you are just doing a usual commute most days, you'll only be topping up nightly, so you may not even need fast charging hardware, as you can use superchargers. CL charging seemed to be available for me (in ACT), but i'd need new charging hardware and that cost meant a long payback period.

    So, i highly recommend not going too overboard with pre-optimisations until you know your usage of the vehicle.

  • kipps on 10/05/2023 - 20:29

    Model 3 owner here. Solar weekend charging covers my usual needs alone for 10,000 km per year. 8.2kw solar system in Qld. Effective cost of daytime charging is the feed in tariff forgone which is much cheaper than even nighttime off peak rates. Get a proper home charger installed and it’s all easy.

  • Captain Hindsight on 10/05/2023 - 21:20
    +1

    Thanks for all the info so far, great food for thought. I’ve also discovered some providers have ev plans, power shop here seems to have a 7.5c per kWh.

    • Geoffreys on 11/05/2023 - 07:33

      Lots of options. Also you can charge with “solar only” using a free app like ChargeHQ if you have a compatible solar inverter.

      It’s freaking awesome how it keeps the charge rate within the solar curve, just varies the amps up and down automatically.

    • achew on 11/05/2023 - 23:00

      Are there powershop referrals here? should be

  • Thinkscape on 11/05/2023 - 09:28
    +2

    Come join us at "Tesla Model 3 & Y Australia" and "Tesla Model Y Australia" FB groups. Very active, heaps of happy owners, most on solar. We've got everything figured out. There's decent priced smart chargers and free software that works with most inverters to charge with surplus solar. Otherwise look for your local retailer with best off-peak rate and you can charge cheaply overnight.
    Paradoxically Tesla are among the most efficient EVs which means that per km cost can be lower than other brands (lower kWh/km consumption).

    • Captain Hindsight on 11/05/2023 - 10:07

      thanks, I will do that.

      I've just learnt one big unforeseen cost and that is insurance. I've been told model y can cost $3k+ for comprehensive per year which is at least $2k more than my current car, potentiality 10k more if I keep it for 5 years. That really eats into the equation.

      Have you any advice on that?

      thx again

      • seannami on 11/05/2023 - 13:04
        +1

        It may just be a newer pricier car thing- the new for old period and the market value being higher if the insurance needs to pay out. ZSEV was going to cost something like $50/month more to insure than my 13 year old Prius, so it may not be avoidable. I also just checked, a brand new Kia Sorento (same price as the ZSEV- just wanted to see if there was some kind of ev jack up) would be $10 more a month than the ZSEV. I'd say any new car is going to cost you more than your current. Woul you consider a non-Tesla EV?

        • Captain Hindsight on 12/05/2023 - 08:43

          Not sure that’s it, my currently car $65k I’m paying about $1000. I’ve since heard may be due to limited places repair them which makes sense.

    • Captain Hindsight on 13/05/2023 - 12:06

      Btw, Any advice on mobile connectors that are cheaper than teslas now you have to buy them, also any options other than Tesla branded wall chargers? Thx

  • auser on 11/05/2023 - 10:24
    +3

    I’ve had my Model 3 for 6 months and I have managed to charge using a 15amp portable charger controlled by Charge HQ on my iPhone. Up to now apart from an occasional top up at public chargers I have charged 99% of the time using just solar and it’s cost me around $12 for 8000km of driving. I only pay $850 per year for insurance (but I am an old fart with a good record 😀) - the golden rule with charging the LFP battery in the standard Y is to plug in every time you put the car in the garage and Charge HQ will only activate the charge when the Sun is charging up to the maximum 15amp charge rate of 3.5 kWh which means you still have solar for other stuff round the house ( I have a 5.3 kw system)

    Note on wether to buy the car or not is that you are buying a very sophisticated computer with wheels attached - there are no standards cars that are as good as the Teslas from a technology point of view and as an old guy who’s had many many petrol cars of various values I for one will never go back.

  • JownehFixIT on 11/05/2023 - 11:23
    +2

    We've been on a Powershop EV Tariff which is time of use between 12am and 4am weekdays at about 8.7c/kWh, so if we charge over two separate night a week at 7kw for 4 hours each time, we get almost 100% worth of charge for about $5 and about 400km range out of that.

    • pencilman on 11/05/2023 - 11:29
      +1

      That's a great rate between 12am and 4am!
      What about other times? When are the peak and off peak periods?

        • pencilman on 11/05/2023 - 12:19
          +1

          Thanks++

        • Captain Hindsight on 11/05/2023 - 12:58
          +1

          Thanks which state ru in? I’m with Ausgrid in NSW just wondering what ev plans I could get.

  • 2esc on 11/05/2023 - 14:10

    Coming through Cooma (regional NSW) a couple weeks ago i stopped for a break and found 2 non electric cars parked in the 2 charging bays at this location yes its very rare you see a ev actually charging in regional areas.

    They were definitely not ev converted older cars.
    (I like the idea of converting something like a muscle car or a older 4x4).

    Do any ev owners find this happening assh&/#s using these charging bays that shouldnt be?

    I dont own a ev personally but done the track may consider one for running around town.

    • seannami on 11/05/2023 - 14:33
      +1

      My EV hasn't arrived yet, but I see ICEing fairly often. There is a shopping center near me who has an entire 'efficient vehicle' car park (no cars using more than 5l/100) that is constantly full of Isuzu utes and giant SUVs. My Prius doesn't technically qualify for that carpark anymore (she's using more juice in her old age). There were people in front of the chargefox bays as well last time I was there- old Corollas.

      I've also seen some Teslicing- a Tesla parked in the EV spot and not charging.

      • JownehFixIT on 11/05/2023 - 15:46

        The best community service you can offer in the case of Teslas not using their own (or non-Tesla) chargers, is to do them a solid and press open their charge ports, and connect the charge cable so they can pay idle fees to be there :D In retrospect this probably only works at specifically Tesla chargers as the plugheads allow you to open the charge port (I think). I've only used an actual Tesla branded charger maybe once to see how it worked. Twice at most but I forget. Had a Hyundai Ioniq Electric 28kWh variant from 2019 to 2022, Model Y now. Old habits of occasionally charging at generic chargers have remained, and there aren't really any Tesla chargers near me, or on my way to anywhere that often. Need to do more road trips probably.

        • achew on 11/05/2023 - 23:05
          +1

          Only works if the car is unlocked ;(
          But you're right. Teslicing is a problem, but again the fine for wrongly parking in an EV spot is also applicable to EV's that are parked there and not charging, or not plugged in.

          Take a photo of the car there, and take a photo of the charger port light and send it in thru SnapSendSolve to deliver a delicious parking fine.

          • JownehFixIT on 12/05/2023 - 06:18
            +1

            @achew: Oh man, good idea! That's the second time I've heard about that app this week. Thanks.

    • achew on 11/05/2023 - 23:02
      +1

      Yes - you can report them via a photo submission to SnapSendSolve (iPhone or Android) to issue them a parking fine.
      Approx $2,200 for parking in an EV charging bay in NSW, and enforceable.

      • JownehFixIT on 12/05/2023 - 06:18

        Whoooaaaa! That's a lot of coin…

      • coffeeinmyveins on 16/05/2023 - 10:52
        +1

        Even in private carparks? I didn't think council issued parking fines were issuable within a private car park like westfield.

        I know this from experience when I sent a picture via SSS of a motorbike parked in a disabled pay inside a Westfield and the council ranger said they can't do anything because it's private property.

        • achew on 16/05/2023 - 11:12
          +1

          That's a shame. They mustn't be in touch with the center's management. That, or some people just know when they can flout the rules

  • coffeeinmyveins on 16/05/2023 - 10:50

    amazing addictive drive

    have you test driven any other EVs? Curious as to what is so addictive about Tesla in particular or if it's just the instant torque, quietness etc that is common to all EVs.

    • achew on 16/05/2023 - 11:26
      +1

      There are a few things i've liked -

      OTA updates, ie no stoneaging
      Loyalty/Rewards/Referral programme
      Charger availability & compatibility (CCS2 Plug, Evie, Chargefox, Tesla etc)
      Excellent Charging speeds
      Customisability (OBD2 tool integration - see https://enhauto.com/product/the-commander)
      You get a LOT of car for your money - heated steering wheel, front rear seats

      and, like any other good car - wise investment and care will see you being able to sell at, or close to your original purchase price very easily.

      • coffeeinmyveins on 16/05/2023 - 13:40

        heated steering wheel, front rear seats

        Gimmicky features that aren't needed for our climate shouldn't weigh too much on your decision.

        and, like any other good car - wise investment and care will see you being able to sell at, or close to your original purchase price very easily.

        Unless you bought it right as they reduced the price ;)

        sounds like your mind is made up and you'll enjoy the car for years to come.

        • achew on 16/05/2023 - 14:15
          +1

          Yeah, you're right. I moved south from sunny qld, so the gimmicks are real comforts for me. And the missus has endo L4, so the heated seats are also a blessing for her, too.

  • Captain Hindsight on 19/05/2023 - 17:16
    +1

    Thanks again everyone for helpful discussion.

    I ordered a Model Y last week and looks likely to be delivered next week. Hard to believe.

    I have heard comprehensive insurance is pricey, anyone in NSW got a recommendation?

    • burningrage on 22/05/2023 - 11:52
      +2

      Let me know your experience. I am in the market as well.

    • JownehFixIT on 23/05/2023 - 08:51

      Congrats, sir! It's a massive commitment, and there were better things about our older car (Ioniq 28kWh), but overall the Model Y has been pretty solid. Just don't depend too much on Autopilot without paying full attention (as per the instructions), it can royally screw up at slower speeds in suburban driving, but is mega handy on the motorway.

      We're in QLD but have stuck with RACQ to bundle with home and contents. Not sure about NSW-specific insurance, so I'll let someone more knowledgeable contribute to that.

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