WD 16TB Elements Desktop External Hard Drive
USB 3.0 External Hard Drive for Plug-and-Play Storage - WDBWLG0160HBK-NESN
Cheapest all time price according to the camels…
CamelCamelCamel.
i think maybe different technology and cost to produce? hence created a different size with different pricing for different needs and different budget?
maybe how many years later in the future, we can have 16tb hdd at a size of 1tb ssd, once the technology evolve with a much cheaper cost to produce?
anyway, i might be wrong overall… feel free to correct me for others. Thanks
SSD technology is completely different from HDD. HDD is cheaper to produce hence why it’s more readily available in higher TBs. The average consumer has no need for large capacity SSDs.
The digital world is moving away from hoarding data and towards streaming and cloud storage. Only those of us who amass collections (of whatever) need 5.25 inch HDDs. People who only need a little extra storage to supplement their SSD will be satisfied by a 4TH 3.5" portable drive.
At the moment I am adding to my collection of Skyrim mods. I've learnt that files stored online are generally not mirrored and can abruptly vanish.
16TB external drives are spinning platters, but more tightly stacked. Hint - there are RPM ratings.
Older technology, but can fit more stuff in, slower than flash storage
1TB SSD cards are flash storage (similar to an SD card), they cost more to produce
Some cut costs by using DRAM less cache
There's different form factors as well now
Or is the simple answer that mounting 20 or so 1TB cards 'in series' into a tiny little unit would be prohibitively expensive to produce, and thus unsalable?
There are 8TB SSDs as well
But look at the cost
They also have 30TB SSDs - and probably beyond. However considering they retail at a little over $100k each (probably more like $30k with enterprise discounts), they are really only intended for enterprise applications.
Let me be your ChatGPT
The main reason why 1TB SSD cards can be small and compact while a 16TB external hard drive is still relatively large is due to the differences in their underlying technology. SSDs (Solid State Drives) use flash memory chips to store data, which are much smaller and more compact than the traditional spinning disk platters used in hard drives.
Furthermore, as technology has advanced, SSDs have become more efficient at storing data in a smaller form factor, while hard drives have remained largely the same. This means that as the capacity of hard drives has increased, so has their physical size.
In terms of mounting multiple 1TB SSD cards in series, while it is technically possible, it would be prohibitively expensive and impractical to produce. It would require complex and expensive engineering to integrate multiple cards into a single unit, and the resulting product would likely be too expensive for most consumers.
In summary, the size difference between 1TB SSD cards and 16TB external hard drives is primarily due to the underlying technology used, with SSDs being smaller and more compact due to their use of flash memory chips. While it is technically possible to mount multiple SSD cards in series, it is currently not a practical or cost-effective solution for high-capacity storage needs.
Because there's a lot more that goes into producing chips than materials. There's the cost of R&D, miniaturisation, etc., to say nothing of overheads like IP, licensing, patents, etc. You think a processor contains $1000 worth of metal? No. But it probably comes from a high tech fab in Taiwan using lithography machines that cost half a billion dollars, the cost of which is amortised over its lifetime.
Chip production is far from completely automated, and I'd recommend you read up on something called 'wafer yield' to learn just how 'wasteful' and complex this process can be. Or go ask these questions in /ELI5.
All the 'R&D' has been done years ago, what I am wondering is why this particular product is proving to be so slow to come down in price over the years, compared to other similar products. Why has China not simply ripped off the R&D, and started flogging a knock-down product at 20% of the price? I take your point about chip production not being completely automated, but it is now very close to that, at least with regard to quality control (i.e., gone are the days of a human 'eyeballing' each chip to make sure the circuits are OK; that's all automated now, as is functional testing of every chip, en masse).
No it hasn't. We're chasing smaller and smaller processes that are now pushing the laws of physics. We're talking 2nm in the near future. Shortly after that will be nanotechnology. That's the cost of miniaturisation and squeezing more on smaller dies. You can't just 'rip off' a chip and make it in your garage. A single lithography machine from ASML costs hundred of millions of dollars, so the fab will recoup that cost over every chip it pumps out. Wafer yields for newer products is also low, meaning you bin huge volumes of unusable product just through manufacturing.
I also don't know where this notion that costs are high because chips are small comes from. You can buy 256GB SD cards for under $25 now. I remember buying 256MB thumb drives not that long ago. Consumers are literally getting 1000x the storage in barely over a decade at the same cost. That progress didn't come for free, it took years and millions of dollars of R&D which you're handwaving away as immaterial.
EDIT: oh great, you took it to forums
@SydStrand: Yo Sydney,
Re:
"You can't just 'rip off' a chip and make it in your garage."
China is not a 'garage', it is the most populous nation on the planet, and it rules its people with an iron fist.
Re:
"you took it to forums"
It was shaping up like that was a more appropriate place to take it. I would very much appreciate your input there in that forum thread.
China is not a 'garage', it is the most populous nation on the planet, and it rules its people with an iron fist.
Yeah. And they still failed. It's kinda why they're trying to beat chip import sanctions, and why Taiwan is looking mighty juicy these days. But sure, China and India can just build make believe world class fabs overnight so GnarlyKnuckles gets cheap storage. It has nothing to do with ASML's years of herculean investment and currently insurmountable technological lead. Because as we all know, the 'R&D has been done years ago.'
China can't simple ripping off the latest R&D at the moment. As the example mention above, the US ban any foreign company sell latest lithography machines to China. Also there's only 1 country on the world produce the latest lithography machines which is Dutch so monopoly factor take place. IP also takes factor on pricing, maybe around 20%. FYI: Seagate got fine $300m this year by the US for selling HDD to Huawei using back channel. Now if US caught the latest lithography machines being sold to China, the fine might goes from $500m to billions which offset the profit and not worth it.
@GnarlyKnuckles: I think we found the reason why GnarlyKnuckles can't wrap his head around tech pricing.
A quick Google search will show that ASML is the only company in the world able to produce the lithography machines capable of manufacturing the latest generation of semiconductors. Semiconductors that are in these SSDs.
@GnarlyKnuckles: So that's how you know R&D is cheap and immediate /s. Of course that's why ASML, TSMC, Samsung, and Intel's competitors can just leapfrog decades of work and billions in investment to jump into the lithography game. After all, it's free real estate.
@GnarlyKnuckles: Yes, lithography machines, those house-sized boxes that cost as much as a warship using technology which no one else can replicate on scale, and China thinks are worth potentially invading another country for. Those things. 'LOL'
@GnarlyKnuckles: You threw "keeping it real" out the window when you became disrespectful with your nicknames.
@GnarlyKnuckles: Was wondering what all the dislikes were about till I saw this thread. Take your autism meds, oof.
"So, what exactly is in that tiny little thing that makes it cost so much to buy?"
It's not the technology of how to make it (which is not a secret anymore) nor the tiny amounts of precious materials in the chips.
Despise the cost to setup production facilities is still prohibitively expensive (and the highly guarded secret manufacturing processes.)
It's a well known fact in human development: GREED and EXPLOITATION
If you missed the Seagate deal a couple days ago then this is a good deal. The last time I got a WD HD for $23.21/TB is in November 2021.
This deal is about $23.89/TB.
The cost of a 1TB SD card is mainly driven by the cost of the underlying flash memory chips used in its construction. The cost of these chips is influenced by several factors, including the cost of raw materials, research and development costs, and supply and demand.
The production of these chips is a highly technical and complex process that involves several intricate steps, such as lithography, etching, and deposition. These steps require specialized equipment and highly skilled operators, which contributes to the cost of production.
In addition, the demand for high-capacity storage devices like 1TB SD cards has been steadily increasing over the years, which has driven up the cost of flash memory chips. As a result, the price of these cards may remain relatively high until production capacity increases and competition drives prices down.
Overall, while production of SD cards may be automated, the cost of the underlying components and the complexity of the production process are significant factors that contribute to their price.
Ten negs for thanking all respondents, and asking a few more questions.
What a crack up! This place has changed a lot over the last few years.
What a crack up! This place has changed a lot over the last few years.
It appears you've provided some interesting replies with attitude to other members' responses
Now I have a new question. Why does a 1TB SD card (or 'micro SD card') cost as much as it does at the moment; i.e., over $100? It's a tiny thing, and it does not contain appreciable amounts of gold/platinum.etc. …
So, what exactly is in that tiny little thing that makes it cost so much to buy?
Surely the answer is not that the 'cost of production' is high, because production would of course be 100% automated in this day and age.
In a nutshell, the price you pay for it, is for not only for the raw materials, but the experience, labour, ancillary costs, infrastructure to produce it, the supply chains to make it happen, to produce that unit to your doorstep.
There must be a logical explanation, because even on the 'free/international market' the prices remain pretty competitive, I'm just trying to understand what that explanation is to satisfy my own curiosity.
Think of it this way.
If I pay you $150, can you produce a 1TB SSD by yourself from just raw materials?
Rules are: You can't just buy one off OzBargain on sale and slap a GnarlyKnuckles label on it.
If you can't produce it for $150, why not?
You weren't negged for asking questions, you were negged for being obstinate and rude. You ignored the many explanations offered despite earlier pleading ignorance, and feigned a willingness to accept new information while simultaneously dismissing it when presented. This was not a good faith discussion, and you know it.
Hey Syd, re:
'you were negged for being obstinate and rude.'
If you can show me where I was rude to anyone, I will be enlightened.
hello Friends,
will this Drive Coupled with a simple small form micro pc, connected using USB be able to work for Plex or Media service ?
NAS devices are clunky and i am thinking this will be a more flexible operation
Yes. You can use a pi or small PC.
I plug the 10TB version of this into my router… then run jellyfin on a separate computer that plays off the network drive.
seems to work quite well atm
Which router do you have @maddoglee ?
Asus RT-AX88U but i think other Asus routers would be fine.
Any chance you could share some information on how this works as it's something I would be interested in and have the same router.
I had one of these drives a few years ago, I left it connected to a linux server for about 6 months and it died. I do wonder if it wasn't set up to park properly and so spun to death.
these are desktop drives not nas rated. Not designed to be permanently running.
But doesn't a USB drive park?
I have a 2tb hooked into my router, was thinking of just throwing a 4tb wd red into it to upgrade instead of buying a new unit like this…
Don't get why people on here down vote legitimate questions
You can tell from the initial question the guy isn't going to be convinced by rational description of business costs. Seems to think R&D costs don't need to be recouped, that smaller things should cost less, etc etc. When they didn't get the answer they wanted then took it to the forums.
Waste of good will and effort.
I reckon he's just trolling for attention.
Subconsciously or not
It's a question that was answered, to which they continued to argue and be obstinate, while simultaneously pleading ignorance. Either you're open minded to new information or you're not, you don't get to pick and choose. You also don't need to conjure up conspiracy theories to explain prices when macroeconomic forces already do. If you think these were 'legitimate questions,' then this isn't the crowd for you.
Well actually I recently bought a 2TB m2 ssd for $119 - in a year or two it's probably cost a lot less.
Are these noisy? I have an older 10TB WD and there's a continuous white noise from the platters spinning, I sit right next to the PC. Not a biggie, but I'd prefer to have a quieter drive.
You have really good hearing. I can only hear them when they start clicking.
Yes, these are noisy, as in they regularly make clicking noise. I have a couple of these, but thankfully housed in a server kept in my garage, so out of sight and hearing.
Any intel if it is a SMR or CMR drive inside?
and whether it will be a 5400rpm vs 7200rpm disk inside?
It's a good price, but the delivery time (June 5-10) kills it.
It’s unlikely WD make a bunch of different 16TB drives, so good chance these will be Helium Filled and CMR, but you aren’t going to get a surprise White Label WD RED PRO in the Elements model. Based on a couple of 12TB and 14TB I have, they are Helium Filled and CMR but most definitely 5400RPM drives.
You are going to have to pay extra for the WD My Book if you want 7200RPM and faster transfer speed. Whether WD use different spindle motors or firmware changes, these are not like those early model EasyStor drives. These are are cheap and you can’t register them locally as the serial number won’t get accepted, but open a case on WD AU Support page and tell WD AU/Asia Pacific you bought these from Amazon Australia - they will give you the same as US warranty and if you ask for AU Plug Packs they will send them out.
There is still very little transparency with HDD manufacturers and it’s been this way for a while. We are still hoping they will put CMR/SMR on the boxes one day.
The higher capacity My Book drives are 7200RPM but not the Elements drives.
Thanks for the comment. They seem excellent for storage drives but I wouldn't want a 5400 Rpm drive in my case since I do a lot of file ops.
The 7200 rpm Seagate Ironwolf's on sale ~10days ago were the best HDD deal I have seen so far.
Price beat with OW?
Or JB Hi-Fi?
try and find out?
JB is price matching
OW is price beating
Also from my experience it's easier to deal with OW.
This is $23.8925/TB, for those that care.
Did anyone else have this get cancelled because of a "potential safety issue"?
Yep, got an email overnight about it
yes, same here.
I received it this morning too. I jumped onto chat and let them know that I was not happy with the outcome.
They wouldn't elaborate on what the safety issue was and said they didn't have additional information.
They were unwilling to provide any type on compensation (even after escalation), and inferred I should be happy that I was given a refund.
It's now with their "specialist team" to get back to me. I doubt they'll offer anything other than what the e-mail stated.
They've also removed the US product (WDBWLG0160HBK-NESN) from their site.
i was thinking of doing the same. just give me the same price on a similar item, i'd prefer that over the refund
The problem is they will come back with the argument that the US verison doesn't match the UK version (different product number).
The only thing different in the box is the power supply; suited to that region.
I ordered one and then after waiting for a week and a half I was told that they had a 'safety issue' (with a WD external hard drive which has been around for how many years?) and were cancelling the order. No offer of equivalent or replacement product or even same product once the issue is corrected- a cynic might think that someone made a faux pas with the pricing and they just don't want to honour it. But what is honour?
Apologies in advance for my total ignorance in this field, but I have a question for all you more learned peeps out there. Why is it that 1TB SSD cards now exist that are about the size of a postage stamp (albeit a bit thicker), but a 16TB external drive is still about the size of half a house brick? It doesn't make logical sense to me, but no doubt there is some sort of logical explanation. Does it pertain to heat generation? Or data transfer speeds maybe?!? Power use?!?!?
Or is the simple answer that mounting 20 or so 1TB cards 'in series' into a tiny little unit would be prohibitively expensive to produce, and thus unsalable?