The New King of Home Coffee Grinders under $1000?

poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 09:38
Last edited 19/04/2023 - 17:38

Anyone considering the Timemore grinder Kickstarter?

I've backed the 078S, pretty outrageous value considering the feature set - stepless grinding, 78mm flat burrs, variable RPM, brushless 400W motor, fines catcher, magnetic dosing cup. Comes in at about A$750 delivered, retailing for $1200 at coffeeparts.com.au.

For anyone looking at a grinder that's smaller or more affordable, the 064S also seems like great value, comes in at about A$450 delivered. This also opens up the possibility of swapping out burrs with widely available 64mm sets.

Lance Hedrick recently mentioned that he thinks the 078 is the grinder beyond which diminishing returns really start to kick in - and a grinder that he belives will topple the Niche Zero's place as the king of home grinders under US$1000.

Hopefully the last grinder I have to buy for a while! Will be a nice complement to my J-Max (very tired of hand grinding every day in the morning!)

Poll Options

  • 3
    Timemore 078/s is the new king
  • 0
    Timemore 064/s is the new king
  • 6
    Niche Zero will still reign supreme
  • 1
    DF83 is where it’s at
  • 3
    DF64 is where it’s at
  • 14
    I’m sticking with my Breville Smart Grinder
  • 5
    Eureka Mignon Specialita via espresso coffee shop
  • 1
    Who needs a grinder? I’m a Nespresso king
  • 52
    YOU’RE SPENDING HOW MUCH ON A GRINDER???
Food & Grocery Coffee Grinder

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Comments

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 23/03/2023 - 09:45
    +1

    People that are dropping 1k on a grinder, how much coffee are y'all churning through in a day?
    (And just for informal poll, are you also a whirlpool forums user)?

    • pegaxs on 23/03/2023 - 09:54
      +8

      InB4: all the bullshit starts about how taste is related to grind, and a lot of marketing words get regurgitated to support this bullshit.

      It's along the same lines as "audiophiles" who buy $10,000+ speak cable wires.. because "crisper highs, thicker mids and deeper bass" or whatever bullshit those guys go on with…

      • altomic on 23/03/2023 - 10:04
        +1

        but you also need a sine wave power supply to prevent crackling and create a smoother sound

        • pegaxs on 23/03/2023 - 10:18
          +1

          Or a valve amp, to give the sound quality “warmth”…

      • Forfiet on 23/03/2023 - 10:31
        +1

        Sorry guys I own a DAC, but drink instant coffee….I've let all you down!!! :(

      • iamherenow on 23/03/2023 - 11:00
        +3

        Like anything, you can buy the cheap crap that will break. Or buy good quality stuff. Anything breville/sunbeam etc won't last more than a few years. My Mazzer has been going around 15 years, and i have no doubt it will last til i die. At $750 so far it's cost me $50 a year. I'm fine with that.

      • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 11:28
        +3

        I think that's why "the point of diminishing returns" mentioned in the original post is so important.

        I'm also in audiophile circles (surprise!). While it's true that people spend money on snake oil in almost any hobby, including coffee - the point of diminishing returns is always the key to finding the best place to play. For instance, I think that point in headphones is about $3-500 (The Sennheiser HD6XX for example), for IEMS its about $250 (The 7Hz Timeless is the pick for me).

        Grinders absolutely do make a difference in taste, I was surprised just how big of difference it made when I jumped from the built-in grinder on my Breville, to the 1zpresso J-Max. Now, how big of a difference jumping from the J-Max to something like the Timemore or the Niche is something that I don't know the answer to, which is partially why I'm asking the question here.

        Another factor is how much you care about hitting the peak? If we use audiophile analogies again - I think the vast majority of people will be incredibly happy with something even in the $100-200 range, like the Audio-Technica M40x or the many options from Hifiman and even Sennheiser. Similarly, I think you're right in saying that the vast majority of people will be perfectly happy with a Breville built-in grinder in their Barista Express. A $1000 grinder is clearly not for those people - its for enthusiasts who want more control over their coffee.

        Additionally, people do pay money for better user experience and build quality. A Rolls Royce Phantom and a Toyota Camry will both get you from point A to point B, but the experience of one is certainly a lot nicer than the other. Same thing can be said of a Patek Phillipe and a Casio. People like nice things, and are willing to pay for it.

        • ForkSnorter on 23/03/2023 - 15:40
          +4

          I think that's why "the point of diminishing returns" mentioned in the original post is so important.

          Grinders absolutely do make a difference in taste, I was surprised just how big of difference it made when I jumped from the built-in grinder on my Breville, to the 1zpresso J-Max. Now, how big of a difference jumping from the J-Max to something like the Timemore or the Niche is something that I don't know the answer to, which is partially why I'm asking the question here.

          I don't doubt your experiences, but in some cases we have built-in confirmation biases which are constantly trying to prove to ourselves that something we think should be better is better. Just for example, some wine experts and coffee connoisseurs don't pass blind tests comparing cheap/expensive wines, or decaf/normal coffee beans.

          I think I noticed a difference when I switched from my Aldi grinder to my Sunbeam Precision grinder, but I can't be sure. I definitely didn't notice as big a difference as when I switched to nicer coffee beans. Maybe I should do a blind test and see if I can spot which is which.

          • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 17:31
            +1

            @ForkSnorter: In this case it was surprising because I wasn't expecting a difference. The only reason I bought the hand grinder was for portable use, didn't have flavour in mind, just portability. It was so unbelievable that this little hand grinder was outperforming a machine that I did do multiple blind tests and both myself and my partner could pretty easily tell them apart.

            Additionally, if the Aldi grinder you moved on from was their burr grinder - I probably wouldn't expect a big difference in taste compared to that Sunbeam model, they seem very similar on paper - despite the difference in price. It also maybe the reason you aren't really tasting a difference between beans either. Both my partner and I can notice a distinct difference between Aldi beans and some of the "nicer" beans we usually buy via OzB. I see "Aldi beans are just as good as anything" being posted on OzB quite often, which is why I keep giving it another go - but I suspect these users either aren't dialling their espresso shot correctly, or don't have the equipment to fully showcase the difference in flavour.

            If we were to jump back to audiophile analogies again - its like trying to hear the difference between a lossless FLAC track and a lossy 128kbps MP3 through the free earbuds someone got on a Jetstar flight vs through a pair of high quality headphones. They'll both sound the same on the earbuds, but you do notice a difference on the high quality headphones - whether that difference is interesting or important to someone is a different question, and for many people, it just isn't - and that's totally fine. For instance, there's a whole other world of perfecting water chemistry used to make coffee - and that's just a world that isn't interesting or important enough for me to make the additional effort. These are very nerdy, finicky little hobbies and I think everyone has to figure out where they land on the spectrum.

          • rossnroller on 24/03/2023 - 13:33

            @ForkSnorter: Well, TBH they're both crap grinders. Little wonder you didn't notice a difference!

            • ForkSnorter on 24/03/2023 - 17:25

              @rossnroller: sure? The Aldi one was ok, but the sunbeam one seems a bit better. Grinds pretty fine. I have to turn the grind size up, otherwise it's too fine and doesn't extract.

              • poppingtags on 24/03/2023 - 17:42

                @ForkSnorter: I would say the Sunbeam is more of a sidegrade than an upgrade from Aldi's burr grinder. Neither would allow you to dial in to a level that you can get the full flavour out of the beans, which in turn makes different beans taste quite similar, regardless of their quality.

                Ideally a grinder should give you quite a bit of range in grind size before it either chokes up or just floods out, that range is what allows you to extract the flavour profiles described. Are you hitting a 1:2 ratio in ~25-35 seconds of extraction? Here's a good video that goes over the process

                • ForkSnorter on 24/03/2023 - 17:50

                  @poppingtags: Not sure the Aldi one was a burr grinder. It’s a very old model. Its finest grind is roughly equivalent to the largest grind size in the sunbeam.

                  But I definitely notice a different taste from the different beans. I’m grinding at the 12 setting out of 30 grind settings.

      • rumblytangara on 23/03/2023 - 12:48

        As someone who has two cheap, manual grinders, yeah, taste is related to grind. One grinder was absolute garbage, one grinder is miles more consistent. Both were less than $100.

        Sure, loads of other factors as well, but there's a threshold below which the grinder will totally guarantee crap coffee.

        Timemore- they make some really decent, inexpensive stuff. Would I drop a grand on a Kickstarter product from them? No.

      • Drpepper666 on 23/03/2023 - 18:29
        +2

        Says the guy spending thousands of dollars on Lego lol

      • JIMB0 on 23/03/2023 - 21:56

        Don't forget the $600 inter-connects for rich velvety mids.

      • thrillhouse on 24/03/2023 - 08:46
        +2

        What do you use to brew at home?
        Grind absolutely affects the taste. This is not the same as "audiophile cables" - this is a fundamental part of coffee extraction.

      • Keplaffintech on 24/03/2023 - 20:14

        The difference is that there is actually a difference between a $200 grinder and a $1000 grinder. It's a small difference but its there. The audio cable / DAC stuff is total BS, and I have industry experience in audio engineering and am only a coffee amateur.

    • pharkurnell on 23/03/2023 - 09:54

      1 cup

    • Guesty on 23/03/2023 - 10:28

      Usually doing 4 doubles per day, 6-8 on Saturday's and Sunday's.
      Sorry to disappoint, but have been inactive on WP for years

    • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 12:22
      +2

      This is actually a pretty straightforward justification for me.

      Coffee machine: $725 Breville Dual Boiler
      Coffee grinder: $750 Timemore 078s
      Total cost = $1475

      Cost of making a coffee at home = $1.2/cup (About $0.70 for freshly roasted beans via OzB deals + $0.50 for full cream milk)
      Cost of buying a coffee at a speciality cafe = On average $5/cup (forecasted to hit $7 soon)
      Savings per cup = $3.80

      Number of cups drunk a day = Minimum 2
      Total savings per day = $7.60

      Breakeven point = $1475/7.60
      ~6.5 months

      After that, especially with the forecasted price rises, I end up with a cost saving of close to $3000/year.

      I work from home and rarely ever have coffee from a cafe, in fact I prefer the cups I make at home.

      (I have a Whirlpool account, but rarely use it)

      • Ryanek on 23/03/2023 - 13:32
        +2

        You sound just like me when i'm justifying things to the wife

        • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 14:03

          Haha, can't argue with straight math!

      • dasher86 on 23/03/2023 - 16:42

        you're not taking into the account of the additional consumption variable. where you end up consuming more because it is available at home and you don't think of the cost, but you would have never consumed that much in the first place if you didn't have a machine.

        • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 17:01

          Unaccounted for because it isn't a factor for me. I've had a home coffee machine for about 2-3 years now, consumption has remained unchanged.

      • rossnroller on 24/03/2023 - 13:35
        +1

        You've nailed it! So much ignorance out there, but that doesn't stop people having the firmest of opinions.

        • poppingtags on 24/03/2023 - 15:23

          Yeah, if you drink coffee everyday, making coffee at home instead of buying it at cafes is a pretty old tip to save money. If you want good coffee at home, you can spend a bit more on equipment and still end up saving money!

  • beyonddd on 23/03/2023 - 09:54
    +1

    I'll put in a vote for the Breville Smart Grinder here. I've used quite a few grinders in my time with specialty coffee (my most recent being the Niche Zero) and quite frankly, I really can't notice a difference in the overall quality of my coffee (currently using Bezerra BZ10). Sure, my dosage might be more accurate by 0.1/0.2g due to the Breville retaining some grind but I wouldn't say it makes a difference in taste.

    • kiitos on 23/03/2023 - 10:22

      I'm using a handed down sunbeam 0480 with a breville dual boiler, to me the coffee is great, but I have been having FOMO from people saying the grinder is the most important factor, and that going from such a grinder to say a Eureka is a massive improvement, etc.

      • beyonddd on 23/03/2023 - 11:03

        Significant diminishing returns kick in around the $300 mark for a grinder I'd say. Breville Smart Grinder, Baratza Encore ESP, Rancilio Rocky are all great grinders for the price which won't give you FOMO for something more expensive.

    • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 12:29

      That's interesting! I thought all the talk about grinders being important was ridiculous, until I bought the J-Max for portable use and immediately noticed a difference between the shots I was pulling via the built-in grinder of my Barista Express - so it's surprising you didn't notice a difference when you jumped to the Niche!

      As I've mentioned above, I think for the vast majority of people the Breville Smart Grinder is perfectly adequate, very valid argument that its the point of diminishing returns - at least for most people.

      • beyonddd on 23/03/2023 - 13:10

        Yeah. I do enjoy using the Niche for workflow and hobby purposes, it makes it for a nicer experience when single dosing.

  • kiitos on 23/03/2023 - 10:18
    +2

    The Timemore grinders look amazing value, I have been tempted to get it too but I'm hesitant until having concrete real life reviews of the 064s.

    • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 17:45
      +1

      Very keen to see some reviews myself. Lance's set will apparently arrive later this week and Kyle Roswell is going to drop a video sometime today, according to his Discord.

    • poppingtags on 26/03/2023 - 14:46
      +1

      FYI Kyle’s review is out and Timemore just confirmed prices are increasing next week!

      Seems like the 064s is a solid option in its price range, where as the 078s gets close to end game territory! I think I’m leaning towards sticking with the 078s myself. Hopefully Lance Hedrick and James Hoffman get their reviews out soon.

      • Moses on 26/03/2023 - 23:22

        Did they say when the price rise will happen? trying to decide whether to buy and if I do whether 78 or 64 is the way to go (mainly aeropress) and hoping to see James' review before pulling the trigger.

        • poppingtags on 27/03/2023 - 11:29

          They said they're increasing the price within the next week! You can lock in the price now, for whichever model you want (or both) - you then have until the campaign ends to cancel either one or both orders, depending on what the reviews say.

          • Moses on 27/03/2023 - 13:15

            @poppingtags: ok - I've backed the 064 as I only really want it for aeropress/filter… tempted to add the 078 so I have both options at the lower price….

            my problem is space in an apartment meaning 064 probably best bet.

            • poppingtags on 27/03/2023 - 17:47
              +1

              @Moses: The 064 definitely seems like the better option for smaller spaces. If you don't drink really light roasts, it should be fine!

  • GG57 on 23/03/2023 - 10:21

    Is this an ad?
    Word for word post on a FB group page yesterday, promoting the same product.

    • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 10:28

      That was me!! I've never spent anywhere near this much on a grinder and I want to know if I'm making a mistake or not, or if there's something I'm missing here, so I've been asking on a few different forums

      Happy to add other grinders to the list of picks, genuinely interested in understanding if the hype behind these grinders are justified - or if there's something else out there that I should be buying instead!

      • GG57 on 23/03/2023 - 10:39

        Is the 078S for a filter grind only?
        Are they available yet? The latest forums I've seen were only a week ago and some were waiting for the release.

        • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 10:53

          The 064 and the 078 are filter only, the 078 has been released for a while. The 064s and the 078s models can do both filter and espresso.

          The 078 and 078s uses a non-standard burr size so there aren't really any aftermarket burrs to swap it out with, although the 064 and the 064s opens you up to many aftermarket burr options.

          I decided to back the 078s because for the cost of a well regarded burr, I'd be able to jump from the 064 to the 078, and benefit from bigger burrs and a more powerful motor.

          • GG57 on 23/03/2023 - 10:59

            @poppingtags:

            Comes in at about A$750 delivered, retailing for $1200 at coffeeparts.com.au

            That link is for the 078 (filter only), and even that doesn't appear to have any reviews.

            Regardless, I prefer to stay away from kickstarters.

            • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 11:17

              @GG57: That's very fair and one of the biggest concerns with this. That said, the Niche Zero was also a Kickstarter grinder - and unlike Niche, Timemore is an established manufacturer, so that alleviates some (but certainly not all) of the risk.

              The 078 is the one reviewed by Lance Hedrick in the original post - there are a bunch of reviews from China on the unit as well.

  • franco cozzo on 23/03/2023 - 10:47

    lol!

  • nomoneynoproblems on 23/03/2023 - 10:52

    Looks like a massage gun lol.

    • franco cozzo on 23/03/2023 - 11:03

      massaging the beans…..sounds a bit rude

      • Ozpit on 24/03/2023 - 10:45
        +1

        A good grind makes the happiest of endings.

    • Ghost47 on 26/03/2023 - 13:25

      Looks more like a sewing machine to me lol.

  • Switchblade88 on 23/03/2023 - 11:06

    $1k for a commercial grinder wouldn't be unreasonable. But that's on the assumption you're putting 300 shots a day through it, and have ongoing availability of spare parts and a history of a quality product from the manufacturer.

    For a kickstarter? Probably not a great gamble, but I've seen worse. And better than the hand-grinding that the OP is doing.

    • franco cozzo on 23/03/2023 - 11:15

      the hand-grinding that the OP is doing…..also sounds a bit rude

      • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 12:30
        +1

        Its a hard job but someone's gotta do it!!

  • Bunnyburger on 23/03/2023 - 11:16

    I have a DF64. Grind retention is a bitch even with the bellows.

    • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 11:18

      That's the reason I didn't go with the DF64 :(

      The Specialita looks incredible is built like a tank, but makes switching between espresso and filter really finicky. I was looking at the Varia VS3 before this came along - but the Timemore seems like its better value.

    • carlJack on 23/03/2023 - 14:25
      +1

      My grind retention reduced a lot with camperista3d mod from etsy.

      • inconspicuous on 24/03/2023 - 08:41

        Same, it's a fantastic grinder now. Was still good before but it's even better.

  • payless69 on 23/03/2023 - 11:29

    Woolies had them Moccona's again for 35c a capsule
    fixed laziness….

  • kekw on 23/03/2023 - 11:29
    +1

    defo some high yield investment right there bois

  • eek on 23/03/2023 - 14:13

    Hario ceramic hand grinder FTW!

  • carlJack on 23/03/2023 - 14:23
    +1

    DF64 owner here. That Timemore 078S looks great. If I hadnt bought DF64 I would have considered the timemore for sure. I didnt go for specialita because its a nightmare to switch between espresso and pour over ( i drink both). Also with DF64 you can swap to SSP burrs easily. I believe DF64 is the best allround grinder below $1000 for now until Timemore prove otherwise.

    • poppingtags on 23/03/2023 - 14:26

      Only reason I didn't go for the Specialita either - think its great value for the $450-500 via ECS, especially if you only drink Espresso OR Filter.

  • Bomba on 23/03/2023 - 15:46

    Anyone looking to split the cost of 2 pack Timemore 078s? Located Sydney.

    Edit: nvm, works out the same oddly enough.

  • thrillhouse on 24/03/2023 - 09:40
    -1

    Appreciate the share. Lots of naysayers in here of course happy with their pod machines (power to them).

    This is super interesting. I won't back the Kickstarter (have had bad experiences), but I do have a hand grinder and scale by Timemore, and have generally been well pleased with their gear for the money.

    My next Grinder was between the Mazzer Mini or Niche Zero; now it looks like I have something else to consider when that time comes.

    Have been using a Rancilio Rocky for the past 7 years. I like the grind it produces but the retention is truely awful. No rush to upgrade, though.

    • poppingtags on 24/03/2023 - 13:17

      There should be a bunch of reviews released in the next couple of weeks. I'm eagerly waiting to see what the usual suspects have to say!

      I have backed for now, because there's only a few hundred left at the early bird price - I can cancel the order anytime before the campaign ends.

  • Loopholio on 24/03/2023 - 14:16
    +1

    The Kmart anko grinder is missing from your poll. It's fine and the price is below $1,000.

    • poppingtags on 24/03/2023 - 17:29
      +2

      It may get the job done for filter, but definitely wouldn't grind fine enough for a properly dialled in espresso - which is what the rest of the grinders listed are capable of.

  • rossnroller on 24/03/2023 - 18:33
    +1

    Exactly, poppingtags. Also, even for pourover, Aeropress, French Press and moka pot brews, the grind from blade grinders, regardless of price, is uneven. The Anko stuff is sometimes not bad value, but in this case the grinder is more appropriate for spices than coffee. And as you say, will not work at all for espresso.

  • poppingtags on 25/03/2023 - 23:16

    For anyone interested, the first detailed review of the espresso focussed models just came out - and it's very positive!

    Still waiting on James Hoffman's and Lance Hedrick's detailed impressions on the espresso models, Lance was already very impressed by the filter model.

    Feeling more settled about backing the 078s now - but will wait for Lance's and James' reviews too.

  • chew_chew on 10/05/2023 - 01:26
    +1

    https://youtu.be/hRLbBNT1UAI

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