My prediction is that current urban rental crisis will soon be over…
Mainstream media is saying we will go to war with China within 3 yrs, and the first thing will be all the Chinese students will be outta here…
So for all those struggling to find a place and being priced out….just hang in there a little longer!!
Yeah all the apartment buildings will be nuked so I predict the rental crisis to be worse.
In Syria, though they did not use nukes - a lot of bombs were dropped. And yes, property has become astronomically expensive for typical Syrians due to a shortage of liveable properties.
The average Syrian civil servent earns $23USD per month - so about $300 a year.
Thanks Pauline.
My prediction -> clocks in Eastern states will mysteriously go backward in April EXCEPT Queensland.
That’s right… mind blown
QLDs clock is already 1hr forward, but 50years backwards at the same time
Queensland is a sh*t hole now with people mostly moving from other estates, so who cares about QLD
Go VIC!!!
Queensland is a sh*t hole now with people mostly moving from other estates
If it's a "sh*t hole", why are they moving there?
because some idiots don't know what's good and bad for them. ask the question like 'why people take drugs' or 'why people do crimes'.
@kiwiyonip: It's also because it has a growing Afrikaner demograph, and the govts easy opt in family reunion migration rules.. QLD,WA and NT regional outback. The new frontier
And what about all the areas outside of big city living? The rental crisis isn’t just localised to Haymarket and Ultimo in Sydney…
Such a dumb post to make. There is little to no chance we will be going to war with China, and even if we did, those students here would become minions for the cause and would not be going home.
At least it didn't have a poll.
Apart from so many other wrong things about OP, migration increases as a result of war.
Ukraine, Afghanistan etc. These folk are on the move because of the terror of war and they are unsafe in the countries that are their homes.
Grow up - you’re not in the least bit funny.
But,The Australian Chinese granted residency after Tiananmen Square
Hawke "made the unilateral decision in 1989 to let the 27,000 Chinese students present in Australia stay"
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/6/3/the-australian-chine…
and even then…
If the Chinese students went back, the vacancies would be filled by those Australians who flee China back to Australia.
zero sum gain
So for all those struggling to find a place and being priced out….just hang in there a little longer!!
Wow… Thanks, OP.
No one asked for your prediction of a societal problem that is more complex than your one sentence analysis.
And you automatically assume the Sydney rental market automatically applies to everyone on OzBargain (it doesn't).
Seriously, who is downvoting me?
Everything I said was entirely accurate.
2 renting downvoters?
My sympathies.
Landlords are downvoting you.
These predictions are bad for their wallets
7 downvoting losers.
The govt is siphoning in as many immigrants as possible to prop up the housing market so it doesn't crash because 'HALF' of Australia's wealth is in property.
If all the Chinese students go home then the govt will just vacuum in from any other country.
Personally, I believe houses should be houses, places for people to live, not an investment vehicle.
Until this changes (unlikely to change, but a crash may happen) Big Australia policy will become BIGGER AUSTRALIA policy.
A property crash, whilst painful, will fix this.
As to a war with China(?) The cold war didn't result in a 'war', so unlikely. Rich countries don't fight rich countries, there is too much to lose. Rich countries fight poor countries so they can take their resources (and the rest).
Yea this
Plus influx of immigrants helps to suppress wages & wages growth
I thought they were bringing the immigrants in because no one here will do the bottom $30 p/h jobs ?
And the governement was rubbing their hands with glee when Canada's foreign investor ban kicked in on the 1st of Jan this year. Since then properties in my area have all been selling 200 to 500k over reserve. Its gone nuts and the governement is cashing in
Australia can siphon Indians in place of Chinese students, just so they can avoid being scammed. If all those indian scammers are already here, what's there to be scared of?
the whole "international people are driving up the property market" is a total crock of shit - since the past 2 years of covid where no one was allowed in and a lot of internationals bailed, the property market skyrocketed
so all the "dem asians and indians are making it more expensive" are shit outa luck now, guess ull have to find someone else to blame
Past 2 years, government/RBA be like, here's free money! That's about $320 billion in covid support plus $230 billion from RBA TFF. That puts 2022 as recorded as the highest ever increase property price increase into perspective!
For comparison, $136.9 billion was invested in "Real estate activities" in 2021 with $149.7 billion unallocated (hmm…). https://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/trade-and-investment-data-info…
Pro tip; if u got any government support money during covid, u werent out buying real estate 💡
How much did Gerry get?
@brendanm: Too much…but we already knew he was a (profanity) before covid (him and his buddy Alan Joyce)
@MrThing: Oh, so there were people getting government support money that could be out buying real estate? This was the case for anyone with a business, pretty easy to get jobkeeper. Plus plenty of other free money thrown about willy nilly.
@brendanm: Heaps of Taxi drivers and other sole traders got almost $30k in grants while working cash in hand. While they throw peanuts at health care workers.
Population growth feeds property prices it's pretty simple. Look at regional areas in Japan or Italy where population has declined and prices mysteriously come down strange how it works right?
The rental crisis exists because investors have exited the market and have not returned.
Rental demand is probably the same, but available stock is lower.
Once interest rates peak, and house values are at their lowest, investors will return to the market because they see value in investing, rental stock will increase slowly. Bobs your uncle.
The rental crisis exists because investors have exited the market and have not returned.
Rental demand is probably the same, but available stock is lower.
So where has the old rental stock gone ? It should be a zero sum game given immi numbers and new housing being constant.
Were the rental stock turned into owner occupied last couple of years ?
And when interest rates peak , those owner occupier will sell their homes back to investor at lowest value only to rent from them in return or move back in living with parents again ?
if you think there is a crisis and only see crisis then crisis is what you get
but if you are resourceful, innovative then there is no crisis.
it an easy choice each person can make, you can either think properties is expensive and there is no way I can save enough to buy blah blah, spend your money on YOLO etc… or you can reframe and think how can I afford a property, what can I do, what are ways I can save money or make more money, a world of opportunities will open up.
But…but…smashed avo…netflix…stan…bi yearly new wardrobe…new phone…new car…eating out…
I should be able to have all these things and afford a house without working hard.
~ some humans
How much is all that? $40,000? Great, if I stop all that, I can afford a house in Sydney in 40 years vs 50? Can cars last that long?
That's just the tip of the iceberg. Smashed avo is a metaphor for the entirety of what humans (particularly the young ones) waste money on.
This is the other problem: "I should be able to live where I want to live (eg. inner city) rather than live somewhere I can actually afford (outer suburbs)."
What really baffles me is when I hear couples who both work decent full time jobs complain about not being able to afford a deposit. I'm like…but there's 2 of you…
@Some Human: It's impressive how someone can be so close to the point of an issue and then somehow completely miss it and come to such a dumb conclusion.
"What really baffles me is when I hear couples who both work decent full time jobs complain about not being able to afford a deposit."
Dude, maybe that's the problem?! Two people not being able to afford a deposit is not because they get a "new phone" it's because houses are INSANELY expensive.
When my parents and my partners parents bought houses they were about 2-3x their annual income (and that was one full time and one part time). Now they are 5-10x TWO FULL TIME SALARIES.
You should seriously do some basic maths on what you are talking about. Netflix + Stan + food + new phone (every two years) is less than $1000 a month. In order to save a 20% deposit for an average priced house in Australia you need to save $140,000. If you stopped spending and saved all that money it would take you 11 years to save enough for a deposit.
Stop blaming young Australian's for issues they didn't create.
@Nereosis: I'm single and managed to save a deposit while renting with my now ex. I work in a factory and don't make good money. Took me 5 years to save 150k and I've paid my house down by 100k since I moved in 3 years ago. Living by myself for the last 2 years, so don't tell me it can't be done. Buy something you can afford. You don't have to live near the city.
@Nereosis: You're telling me it can't be done. I'm telling you it can based on my own experience and that of people I know.
My ex was kicked out at 15 and managed to get his own place on a really really low wage by himself. My brother pretty much bought his house outright, which considering he has always lived alone, is a massive achievement and I'm so proud of him.
Maybe instead of being jealous of everyone, you should ask them how they did it. If I had to guess, I'd say like so many humans, you're trying to live a millionaire lifestyle on a below average wage.
Hard work and sacrifice, mate. Have you ever worked overtime? Worked a saturday? Run a side hustle? If not, you're probably not working hard enough.
If you're not willing to sacrifice your lifestyle to get ahead, well…have fun renting forever.
@Some Human: Jeez, this comment is so freaking embarrassing I am suffering for you.
I own my own home and I have plenty of disposable income - I am very lucky.
Did you even read my comment, like at all? I gave you numbers and you completely ignored them.
"Living like a millionaire" what does that even freaking mean? Buying coffee twice a week and maybe going out for dinner once?
I also love how you try and insult anyone that is struggling financially by saying "Have you ever worked overtime? Worked a saturday? Run a side hustle?" (profanity) off.
I worked 2 jobs while studying at Uni full time, I drove for hours a day commuting because I couldn't afford the rent of the only city I could get a job in at the time. I wasted (profanity) hours of my life everyday for years. I DID work for what I have and I can still tell you ITS BULLSHIT. I was lucky I was even in the position to do any of that - there were times where I literally ran out of money and couldn't afford the petrol to get home from work. I had to get my mother to send me money just so I didn't have to sleep in my car. I skipped breakfast and lunch, I stopped drinking, I never went out with my Uni friends because I was too broke. What does someone do if they don't have that lifeline? "Just be better with money" is what I bet you would say. I shouldn't have to sacrifice the enjoyment of my life just so I can get to a bare minimum standard of living.
The only reason I was able to buy a house with my partner is because she is a teacher and we got lucky with the bank. Less than 12 months after we bought our house the prices literally rose by at least 25% and we would still 4 years later be trying to save for a deposit and we both work full time.
How can you tell people they need to stop enjoying their life so they can appear as if they worked hard in your eyes? How does that not make you absolutely cringe at how disgusting you sound?
EDIT: Just want to add your other comment here because I think it's very fitting "No need to devalue other people's work and abilities just because you're clearly terrible with money."
@Nereosis: I ignored your nunbers because they are ridiculously inaccurate. If you added up ALL the frivolous things people waste money on, it would be much more than $1000 a month. As I said, the things I listed are the tip of the iceberg. I know, I spent stupidly in my early 20s.
You also seem to be focussing on Sydney pricing - nobody is forcing you to live in Sydney. Nobody is forcing you to go to uni.
I only negged in retaliation. I usually don't neg someone just because I disagree with them.
I assumed you didn't own a home judging by the ridiculous level of anger you displayed which is normally exhibited by someone who owns nothing and thinks the world owes them a favour. Also because of the fact you thought it was impossible for 2 people to save 140k in less than 11 years. Come on…it's not that hard unless you are crap with money.
You were working 2 jobs but couldn't afford rent or food??? Were you living in America at the time?
My whole point in the first place is that people could afford housing, but don't want to temporarily give up their luxurious lifestyle to save hard and generally want to live somewhere they can't afford. If you can't see that having food in your belly and a roof over your head makes you luckier than majority of the world, I feel very sorry for you. Watch some documentaries about rural life in a third world country, it may change your perspective on what is really important.
@Some Human: "You were working two jobs and couldn't afford rent or food?" - Again, you see the point I'm making and then just completely ignore the meaning behind it.
What my point was is that I did make the sacrifices, I worked as much as I could, I went to uni to get a better job, I skipped doing the things I loved, and I STILL needed more help to be able to afford a house. Luckily, because my partner was a teacher we were able to buy a house with a 5% deposit, that's the only reason us with full time jobs were able to buy a house before we turned 30.
I did not say that saving 140k is impossible for two people what I said was that simply not paying for Netflix, phones, entertainment, coffee, eating out etc. Does not suddenly let you save 80% of your pay. Of course it let's you save more, but you are still going to be saving for a long time.
My parents bought their house in the same town I live in on one wage while also sending us on holidays and buying me an Xbox when it came out etc. Etc. My dad was not earning 100k+ 15 years ago who was earning 70k. I know this because I had to get their income statements when I attempted to get Centrelink payments so I wasn't living in poverty.
I now earn significantly more than my father ever did and there is no way I would have been able to buy this house on my own in a reasonable amount of time - let alone with 3 kids.
I am not saying woe is me, I am very lucky and I did the work, but that does not mean there is not a problem. I didn't get ahead because I stopped playing games or drinking coffee, I got ahead because I got lucky with the bank.
Also, it is not inconceivable someone would want to live in Sydney. They pay you more when you work there and, likely, your friends and family are there too. That's probably the most significant reason to want to live somewhere. Yes, if you want to buy a house as a young person you should not be buying that newly built 4 bedroom house with a swimming pool but the 2-3 bedroom 50 year old house is still going to cost you 600k+ and that is insane.
My parents bought their house in the same town I live in on one wage while also sending us on holidays and buying me an Xbox when it came out etc. Etc. My dad was not earning 100k+ 15 years ago who was earning 70k. I know this because I had to get their income statements when I attempted to get Centrelink payments so I wasn't living in poverty.
I now earn significantly more than my father ever did and there is no way I would have been able to buy this house on my own in a reasonable amount of time - let alone with 3 kids.
I don't know why these comparisons are brought up. It's such an invalid comparison.
Differences between both periods: the economy was different, the job market was different, you are only using nominal values, lending criteria was different, population was different, etc etc
@pogichinoy: They also neglect to realise that 70k in 2008 was very good money and the equivelent of nearly 100k in today's money.
@Nereosis: So now you're trying to tell me that 2 people with uni degrees, working full time only managed to save up a 5% deposit over the course of several years? Even if that was a 5% deposit on a 2 million dollar property, that is pathetic and is not so much a reflection of the housing market, but of your own spending. Have some accountability.
I wasn't born yesterday and do not buy that your struggle was someone else's fault.
Seems to me like you were spoiled as a child and were drastically underprepared for how expensive a life of privilege is.
I see why you held off on your own anecdotal evidence - it is quite damning. My BS meter went off the charts when you said you "needed" help to buy a house. Was that because the disposable income you speak of was all disposed of before you had a chance to save it?
Like I said earlier, I work in a factory and saved 150k in 5 years while renting. My ex at the time saved 50k. Nothing to do with luck, it was to do with knowing the value of a dollar - something many of my fellow millenials can't seem to comprehend.
So I will ask you, what on earth were you wasting so much money on that 2 people with good jobs couldn't save a decent deposit?
@Some Human: Apparently, I "wasted" money on such priviledges as "eating", "going to work", "bills", and the most priviledged of all "living under a roof".
Sorry, better check my priviledge next time and bow down to my boomer peers who are so much smarter than me that they managed to "save 150k in 5 years" - I am so very proud of you. It does come to make me wonder why every report of house/rent prices + cost of living compared to wage growth shows this is utter shit though? Huh, must just be "dumb" millenials wasting their money on "coffee".
"I wasn't born yesterday" - clearly, Boomer is a mindset not a statement of birth year.
@Nereosis: I had those expenses, too. Still had plenty left over at the end of the week with no family help. You seem to forget you're talking to someone of similar age…
Yes, you should definitely check your privelege. Your level of entitlement is astronomical.
Boomer is a mindset not a statement of birth year.
Would rather have the mindset of a boomer than a 4 year old who cries to mummy because they ate all their candy and now it's gone.
The boomer mindset is working well for me. How is your 4 year old minset working for you?
5% deposit , 2 people
Oh yeah…
Clearly, income isn't everything.
What did you really waste your money on?
@Some Human: Yet again, you ignore the actual facts.
Cost of living has increased dramatically and wages have continued to stagnate. Yet, you sit here and blame small expenses on the problem.
Seriously, you are the problem.
@Nereosis: Mate, you need to be real with yourself.
At 25, what savings did you have? How about at 30? If you have nothing to show for yourself at 30, then you're spending above your means.
"Eating" includes fine dining. Have you eaten fine dining? My boomer parents never had that privilege.
What did you waste your money on?
- From a Gen Y
@Nereosis: Housing is more expensive than in that past but there isn't much you can do about it really, it totally out of most people control.
complains and blaming other is not going to help your situation
working on what you can do to be able to afford it which is something you can control and have a much bigger impact.
My kids may have a hard time getting a property but I don't tell them housing is expensive, I tell them you stacked away as much as you can each pay and make the most out of it while you are still young and has little baggage
so as young as 15 they all got casual jobs and they gave most of the saving for me to invest for them, they spend 20% of their earning and keep 80% for saving and investment. By the time they graduate from Uni and in a full-time job for 1-2 years they have enough deposit for a property at the tender age of 22.
is it that easy? it hard to know, but when you work hard and you save a lot, a lot of things can get easy
@MrMarket: This is the most boomer shit I have ever heard. You think your kids are going to make enough to save almost 140k for a house deposit after Uni and working for 2 years? You are absolutely dreaming.
@Nereosis: No need to devalue other people's work and abilities just because you're clearly terrible with money.
@Nereosis: it actually more than 140K they got by the time they finished Uni working for 2 years and all the money
they saving up working casual during their teen years, save 80% spend 20%
very basic maths, 70K a year after tax 55K
save 80%, spend 20% = 44K a year x2 =88K
7 years of casual job around 9K tax free each year 7K a year saving
7*7 = 49K
88+49 = 137K plus around 20K of investment return so around 155K
nothing is bullshit or impossible you just need to be good with money, have a plan and discipline to take action and action.
and they not buying into expensive place so they have more than 20% deposit, no LMI etc..
@MrMarket: Save 80% of 55k? You're telling me you think an adult can live off $900 a month?! $230 a week? What the (profanity) kind of "simple maths" is that mate?
Groceries for a single person are nearing $100 a week, rent per week even in a share house is going to be over $100 a week.
(profanity) me, you guys downvote me and then this is the argument you have?
11 thousand dollars a year for ALL spending. Just ridiculous.
"But I 'NEED' to live in Sydney/Melbourne."
~ some humans
@[Deactivated]: I used prices for the mean house price of all of Australia. It might surprise you to learn that even the regions are extremely expensive.
@Nereosis: Some are but mostly these are the same places stumbling over themselves to become like Syd/Mel but still enough below Syd/Mel prices to actually qualify for a loan with feasible repayments. But there are more remote places 50% or more below. I wasn't even looking at property the other day when I saw a house in WA, not in but near Perth (not up where it's like living in an air fryer), modern brick construction and a few streets from the beach for $240,000.
Even if they don't want to live in such places themselves they can actually buy a home, collect rent from it to either pay it off faster or add to their savings balance to buy the next one. The now have something indexed to house prices everywhere else and years earlier. So if they get hit by a bus crossing a Syd/Mel street, or some other unexpected health event that puts them on compo or worse, a pension for life, at least they will have somewhere to live (even if it's not where they'd prefer) rather than paying $800+ a week rent. (A disability or old age pension or whatever will be the same amount no matter where they live in Austraila. Point being, the poorest person can live on a low income if there's no rent to pay.)
Instead they wait, waste tens of thousands in rent, try to save, but still too lazy to make their own coffee, go to see every new movie to entertain and distract themselves, cry about prices rising beyond their reach, but the definition of insanity remains doing the same thing and expecting a different result. They don't retrain for another job they can work from home, or one that's going begging in rural areas. Wages will be lower, but property prices are too. So they could build wealth not from their higher paying city job most of which is blown on rent, but by taking a lower paying job and investing in more cheaper property, faster.
People get it stuck in their head they "need" to buy that $4M Syd/Mel property, when they could instead be buying, paying off, and collecting rent from 10x $400K ones… THEN sell them off to buy 1x in RatRaceVille if they really need to, probably in 3/4 to 1/2 the time as staying in Syd/Mel, hitting their head against a wall, 3 steps forward financially but 2 steps back, expecting that different result.
@[Deactivated]: So, the solution is for young people to buy a place in woop woop, where they -
…but at least they have a roof over their head lol?
and good luck if you aren't white… Not everyone in the country is racist, but there is a reason why the Nationals and One Nation do okay out there
People get it stuck in their head they "need" to buy that $4M Syd/Mel property
You are making a strawman argument lol this is not a thing..
Even to get a '$400k house', you would have to save up $80k -
Median Wage after tax = 930 approx a week (and if you are younger, it is less than that)
Rent = $450
Bills = $65
Groceries = $150
Transport = $50 (train to city)
…already only $215 left over in the week, so you are saving 11k a year, which is a lot. Then again, this isn't taking into account general expenses, like owning a car, clothes or buying a laptop (or whatever equipment) for work. You also wouldn't be allowed to have a life, like an occasional coffee and avocado toast, playing video games, no social life. Sacrifices need to be made in order to attain woop woop residency lol
So in 8 years, you will be able to afford that deposit assuming that nothing goes wrong ever and if house prices and inflation don't go crazy…
Realistically, the only way to get a house today is to earn a lot more and be lucky enough to have support from family (free housing, food, finance, education), like @Hearthstone - but most young people are not that lucky, and it sucks to see a lot of older Australians not able to see or understand that.
@Some Human: You're right - privacy is a privilege
They could be saving an extra $100 a week
That's an extra 5k a year..
I'm already being quite generous by not counting clothes, health problems, furniture, appliances, car etc… If you can't see my point, then I suppose we're at an impasse lol
@leelemon: Half of $450 is $225…
A third is $150…
Those savings add up really fast.
Your point is that everyone is so entitled, they want to afford a house while maintaining the same privileged lifestyle in which they were raised. They don't want to put in the hard yards or sacrifice anything.
I have a very entitled friend who is 35 and still living with his mum. He spent 10 years on the dole, got a job like 3 years ago and was surprised his 25k life savings won't buy him a 3 bedroom house in outer melbourne. I told him the secret of saving money and he's just like bUt i NeEDz aLL tHIs tHiNGz
Pretty pathetic that someone living rent free at their parents can't even save 10k a year. Even more pathetic that I point out where they're going wrong and they don't listen. I learned a long time ago that if someone is succeeding where you're failing, best to listen how they got there, rather than argue and devalue their achievements.
Half of $450 is $225…
It sure is. So, two or three housemates sharing a tiny one bedroom unit is what you are suggesting… privacy is not privilege, it actually a luxury lol
And you pointing out random anecdotal friend of a friend evidence and making strawman arguments doesn't prove anything. The fact that you 'know' so much about your "entitled dole bludging" ""friend"", is pretty funny though lol… like forget mental health problems, low self esteem, perhaps a lack of educational opportunities - he just doesn't want to put in the hard yards.
And then stuff him for wanting a space to live. No pain, no 'house in the middle of nowhere' 😂😂
And no, my point wasn't that people are entitled. My point was the only way to get a house in this day and age was to earn significantly more than the median income and have family support.
I bought my house with my partner a few years ago. I was 27. The reason we could was because my partner earns a decent amount of money (because he is skilled) and we lived with family for some years. We could because we were lucky. Not everyone is, which was the crux of my argument.
@leelemon: I’m just a person who can see through BS and has a great appreciation of how good we have it in this country.
$450pw would get you a 3 bed house in my hometown. If someone is paying this much for 1 bedroom instead of moving somewhere affordable, that’s on them. Seems to me like you’re exaggerating the numbers to make your argument sound better.
The friend I mentioned earlier went to uni for 7 years and spent his downtime sitting on his arse playing video games and leeching off others. He could have worked during this time, but is extremely arrogant and thought working at a supermarket was beneath him. Plenty of opportunity for that guy, but he chose to be lazy…
I never had family help. I moved out of home when I was 20, so my new brothers could have a bedroom. I worked a low paying job for a long time and rented with my partner at the time. I spent frivolously in my early 20s. Then one day I woke up and realised I didn’t need a steak dinner twice a week, a cafe coffee everyday, or a new wardrobe every week (because I couldn’t be bothered washing my clothes). In fact, I realised there were so many things I didn’t need, that I stopped wasting money on them. After this wake up call, I started saving…a LOT. You see, all these little things you think don’t cost much add up to a large amount. If you cut out enough of it, you can save a small fortune. Like I said, I managed to save 150k in 5 years while renting with my ex. He only saved about 50k in the same amount of time, because he never stopped spending frivolously, was lazy and only wanted to work a 25 hour week. We never shared money, only expenses. We parted ways, then I bought my house. I assume he is still renting.
I bought my house with my partner a few years ago. I was 27. The reason we could was because my partner earns a decent amount of money (because he is skilled) and we lived with family for some years.
2 of you living with family could barely afford a deposit? WTH were you spending your money on??? Genuinely curious to know.
@Some Human: I think you are seeing what you want to see lol
As for your weird question at the end, we were having a life. I feel for your ex…
@leelemon: So it's not that you couldn't afford a house, you just didn't want to give up your life of privilege to do so.
Why spend all that time whinging just to go and prove my point at the end anyway?
People can afford housing, but don't want to give up their lifestyle to save for it.
I feel for your ex…
I feel for him, too. I should have treated him a lot better.
@leelemon: some people are luckier than other but it doesn't mean the unlucky one can't structure their life
so, they can be more disciplined and also maybe a bit of sacrificed and forgo a few things helps.
I grow up in public housing with no financial help from anyone but I am very disciplined with money, I don't spend on stuff I can't afford and I don't borrow or have credit card to buy stuff that are not essentials.
I Invest almost all my money in the first few years I have a full job and with a bit of luck, I cash out several years later to have 20% deposit but I was broke after I bought my first house, there is no Funiture
I sleep on the floor, cheap TV, no furniture, just an empty house, I sleep near the heater and have one running to keep the cost down.
I don't think my kids will be able to do that, so I structure and discipline them in a different way to achieve similar result
that mean they have to save a lot more; start working earlier, do more hours, you get up early and catch the bus, they don't move out or live on campus and I put my foot down that they don't move out and pay someone $400 a week when they can get free accommodation at home.
A lot of their friends do that and I have to really tell them it is a @$#@$ stupid money ideas
you blowed 20K a year on rental while you can get free equivalent stuff
they know I am very good with money discipline so when I go off about that sort of stuff at least they listen and abandon those stupid ideas.
you just need to work out creative way and be resourceful, it not going to get an easier as food and housing get more expensive.
@MrMarket: Things are different to how things were 20-30 years ago. It's a credit to government policy that was in place during the time you were young and growing up in Australia. A lot of that policy has been watered down and abandoned - it is a different playing field.
Your kids are lucky to have be able to live with you. Not every kid is able to have the opportunities that you have thrown at them. It is a very kind thing you did for them.
Unfortunately for most everyone else, they don't have that. Things are significantly more expensive - the cost of living has gone up and has significantly outpaced that of wage growth.
In 2000, houses on average cost 5 times the median salary. Today it is 15 times more.
My point was never that you couldn't save. Of course, a person can save up for a deposit - but it's only realistically achievable if they are lucky enough to have support from family and/or earn a lot more.
Some part of you must know this, otherwise you wouldn't have helped them with HECs and living expenses and 'such' - otherwise you could have let them free range and 'save it up on their own'.
You have to separate what you have achieved to what is like now. You seem like a good person. Your kids are very lucky.
@leelemon: If you actually bothered to read, I said they don't have to live there themselves. i.e. WHO CARES what an income-producing asset/investment is, or where it's located, as long it produces income/wealth.
They could put 20% deposit down on a much cheaper property (thus easier and faster to reach) to eliminate mortgage insurance. Then get a loan, buy it, and rent it out to someone else whose outgoing rent now pays YOUR loan. At the same time they either pour what they would have saved as a deposit for their own fantasy city property they'll never own into that loan too… OR buy a second, third, etc rural property using each one as its own collateral. They only buy another once they have enough deposit and/or able to do some cheap improvements to each property so they can demand more in rent to make the loan/property cashflow positive.
Do that 10x times on homes that one-tenth the price of just 1x in the city (that will never bring in rent equal to its loan repayments) and not only does each rental income cover each loan, but can go toward paying their own rental in the city, only the difference is they now "own" 1-10 homes… which are increasing in value each year, and once paid off, the incoming rent becomes 100% profit - meaning they can now either use that money to rent a city mansion they could never afford themselves and keep working (yay - everyone's dream)… OR give up their job and travel the world, buy a motorhome to travel Australia, etc on the incoming rent - instead of working the rest of their lives to help their boss buy those 10x properties while they watch city property go up and up, but never owning EVEN ONE - ANYWHERE.
AND even if they spent every cent of that incoming rent, never actually paying any of those rural home loans off, if they get sick/injured they can at least sell off as many as required leaving one to live in, maybe a couple more to rent to add to their pension. i.e. The capital growth on properties they did buy probably means they can pay out the loan on the last home to live in themselves IF they want to.
If you didn't catch it after two explanations, this is the WORST scenario.
Heck, they could even buy one or more, but make the loans interest only investment loans for a few/several years, again use those incoming rents to pay off the loans OR to pay for (or at least reduce) their own rent on a property in the city they could never afford themselves, and still come out ahead thanks to capital growth!
e.g. They put down 20% deposit on a rural property (again this means no mortgage insurance to pay thus reducing costs), apply for an interest only investment loan for a few/several years, over which time those rural properties increase in value TOO thanks to capital growth just like ones in the city do. So after several years a say $200K property is now worth $240K but the loan is still at the original $160K as it was on day 1 several years ago. NOW they could refinance a normal variable rate loan and start using the rent to pay the loan down, OR get a second interest-only investment loan and let capital growth do its magic a second time.
A second block of several years, paying interest only, the principle is still fixed at $160K (if they paid nothing off the principle) while the property has again grown to be worth $280K - and so-on. They could do this their entire lives if they wished, probably equaling their job income at some point. i.e. Doubling their income, using the properties solely as income-producing assets.
But at some say they change the loan over to a normal variable rate loan, only a small part of the rent (because rents have also increased over that time) now easily pays the monthly repayment. Either pour ther est into the loan, spend it, save it for their own home deposit, put it toward the city property they rent themselves, whatever.
Once the rurals are fully repaid the incoming rent AND those properties AND the income they generate is 100% theirs.
But I understand this takes a few minutes more thought and research than some people can bother with, like sheep they'd rather imitate the other sheep around them thinking they'll get a better result. Which is usually only one or no home, or struggling to pay one home, working the rest of their lives, taking two-week holidays once a year to stave off exhaustion, until they finally retire on pension, find they can't afford and are too sick/old to travel, and sit at home eating two-minute noodles and baked beans in the heat/cold because they can't afford the electricity bill and Syd/Mel land rates - until they die because they wasted their income entertaining themselves buying shiny toys to impress other people who didn't notice anyway. Yeah, much better than buying rural properties that could have allowed them to retire at 30, travel, show their wife/kids the world, and once they became sick/old employ a private maid.
So by all means folks, keep saving that ever-shrinking % deposit on an ever-increasing city home most will never afford, work to enrich someone else until you're too old or sick to travel, then sit in a chair where your family never visits because they're following the same example you set chasing that city property, until you die. What a great plan (not).
People who are not afraid or proud to admit what most people do DOESN'T WORK and they're heading down the SAME PATH need to start investing in themselves. Reading some investment/wealth creation books, starting with "The Richest Man in Babylon", "Who Moved My Cheese", and about the first half of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." Then go from there.
They could put 20% deposit down on a much cheaper property
Yes, genius idea.
So as I already pointed out with numbers, it will take 8 years for a very average person to achieve the 20% - assuming you don't need clothes, car, medicine, life and god forbid if you get laid off or have health problems.
If you are younger, you are likely to take even longer as the median wage for younger people is a lot lower.
This figure is also not taking into account price rises, rent rises or inflation.
Say, prices do indeed stay still - you'll be almost 30 and you'll finally have that deposit for a house forever away that you rent out.
It's also not guaranteed to be rented out, and it if it is - there are a whole host of other problems that get piled onto your workload.
And then what? Another 8+ years to get another house in woop woop. That's 2 houses in the middle of nowhere and you'll be touching 40, in massive debt, with no life. What an absolutely miserable existence. At what point is that okay? We only get one life and to waste it slaving away like this just for a roof over one's head is crazy.
If you were born 15+ years earlier, then yes - if you lapped up a bunch of houses then, you'd have made bank - but times have changed. You can't just think that the same strategies that worked years ago will work now.
Instead of reading books by people who want to sell you the idea that you can be rich if you buy their books and tickets to their seminars - maybe you need to try apply math and data to the current situation to be able to see the situation more clearly.
a) Boo hoo. My parents were in their 30s in the 70s when they tried to get a loan for their first home. We'd been living in a wooden and asbestos unlined and uninsulated GARAGE that water flowed through when it rained too hard, a tin roof, and winter cold pouring in every gap and through the wooden barn style doors, no shower and toilet which was in the separate house. The "wall" separating their "bedroom" from mine (which was actually the lounge and dining room) was two old wardrobes side-by-side.
Most banks wouldn't even lend to many people back then, even with good jobs, unless they were already considered wealthy - far fewer people got approved back then than today. Same thing with a lot of their friends buying their first homes. (How on earth did they cope, not just sit rocking back and forth in a puddle of tears, lol?)
b) Few people NEED a 20% deposit. It just eliminates the requirement for mortgage insurance. Most people jump in when they have only 10%. Is 4 years too long too? i.e. There seems to be only two extremes with you… Starting with 20% deposit after only months of saving (which has never happened), or 0%. While 0% would be a bit silly and not what I covered, it's still possible to get a home loan without any deposit. "Oh but some people can't because they have no parents or friends to help by going co-guarantor?" Um, well yeah - so what's any different about that going back decades.
And newsflash, it ALWAYS took "years" to save a deposit. i.e. You're saying city homes are too expensive, but people "should" get to have that $6 coffee etc, that saving a deposit for 8 years is too long, no-one will ever be able to buy… But sorry, none of this is any different to decades gone by when those same city properties WERE selling for $400K, and that was when wages were lower than today, interest rates higher than today, rents much lower than today… yet THEY managed to put the effort in, delay instant gratification, eat porridge for breakfast, take sandwiches and water to work for lunch, and eat liver at night because it was cheap - to save a deposit and/or repay a loan.
Solution? Get frugal like they did, save better/longer, retrain for a better job, move!, or lower expectations or find a different path to the rest that takes 2 or 3 steps to get there instead of expecting 1, because that's never been the case except for the few high income earners.
You are saying because something is not handed to those who think it's hard on a platter socialist style, it must be impossible, there's no other solutions, thinking outside the box and not buying $6 coffee AT ALL is too difficult, that things are much harder today than yesterday (which is a leaky cold garage full of horseshit - I still remember the freezing cold winters, sweltering summers, and water on the floor of that garage), taking 2+ steps that take individual thought instead of 1 step following the same ruts as most others, means it must be time to throw up one's hands, fall in a heap, and cry.
(Or as before, have a solicitor set up a trust, get interest-only investment loans [means lower repayments] to make their incoming rent cashflow positive from day 1, use those as vehicles to increase your income, and either use that extra income to get a city home loan or continue renting there and hold them until capital growth, then resell some to pay off the loans on the rest, which means more of their incoming rent boosts your income for a lender even more, to get that unrealistically priced city home loan.)
You basically say the situation is hopeless, but how is owning one or more rental properties increasing your income a "miserable existence"!? You have more money today than yesterday! If anything, saving a deposit for years longer without that extra rent coming in, or not saving at all because it's hopeless until rents go so high you can only afford a powered tent site in a caravan park, is the real miserable existence.
@[Deactivated]: Dude, you are all over the place lol
Boo hoo. My parents were in their 30s in the 70s when they tried to get a loan for their first home….
Right, but we're not talking about acquiring a home. We were talking about purchasing an investment property in woop woop for $400k.
What a goal post shift… lol
And why the weirdness lol
Few people NEED a 20% deposit.
That's not true, unless you are applying for a government scheme - but then that would mean that you are living in the place, not renting it out which was what we were originally talking about.
And newsflash, it ALWAYS took "years" to save a deposit. i.e. You're saying city homes are too expensive, but people "should" get to have that $6 coffee etc,
Strawman arguments lol who is saying they 'should' have $6 coffees. No one is saying that.
But sorry, none of this is any different to decades gone by when those same city properties WERE selling for $400K
Right, there were $400k houses - but there were also houses you could buy still in the city region for $200k (if you are talking about houses in late 90s, before they changed policy and arguably why we are here today). A different time, a different situation.
Why are you fixated on $400K when you know cheaper properties out of cities was my point PLUS then I gave an example of a $240K one near a capital city anyway?
400k is 3-4+ hour drive outside of a capital city (old plank house that probably needs fixing up) if you live on the East Coast.
If you are saying $240k as an investment:
So, you want young people to save up for 5 years (a very generous estimate, given as I said previously - no furniture, clothes, car, medicine yadda yadda) to then purchase a house in a place they have limited knowledge of - don't know how it does for rent, construction quality, very far from where they live etc
Then - say best case scenario - you manage to rent it out. Now you are $192k in debt, and according to the mortgage calculator - earliest you'll likely pay it off is in 8 years (assuming everything doesn't get more expensive, you are able to rent it out that entire time, and you don't lose your job, no health issues etc AND not including taxes, property problems like broken ovens, fences, maintenance on an older house AND you continue living your no life life)
So, after having no life for 14 years, you are the proud owner of a house in woop woop. Wild lol
You basically say the situation is hopeless, but how is owning one or more rental properties increasing your income a "miserable existence"!?
I'm not saying that lol
I've always said - you can get a house if you are lucky to have support from family and are able to earn more than the median wage.
What is a miserable existence? How is about being almost 40 years old, with no life - no going out, no new clothes, no furniture, no nothing - a machine to churn out the maximum amount of profit - just to buy a house lol
And not even a good one.
And you don't even live in it lol
Most people have never heard or considered these even exist, otherwise half the country would be self-funded, retired, two decades early by now, traveling and sitting on exclusive beaches.
No, that's also not true. If you think that people don't want to better their situations that's insane.
As I've shown you with numbers - owning a house is not feasible unless you have support from family (be it money, living, food) and earning more money (which often entails picking up a trade or going to university - which also requires a lot of support)
You are saying because something is not handed to those who think it's hard on a platter socialist style
Yikes lol
If this was such a socialist place, housing wouldn't be like this lol
The reason why it has gone up is because we have turned shelter into an investment (or 'capitalised' it) through bad government policy that favours the wealthy over the poor.
If you can't see this or accept the evidence, then I don't know what more we have to say lol
Right, but we're not talking about acquiring a home. We were talking about purchasing an investment property in woop woop for $400k.
No, we weren't, only you continue claiming we were. My example has always been the $240k WA example, which you keep claiming I said was a $400K house out woop woop.
If you think that people don't want to better their situations that's insane.
I never said anything remotely close to that, but you certainly have lol. You implied it's impossible for young people to buy a home (when they're in the best position to given they have more time), that they'd need relatives and friends to help or else could never buy a home, and buying cheaper investment properties instead is pointless towards achieving their goal.
Let me guess. You must be a woman. It's my experience mostly women (usually those with multiple divorces) twist clear statements completely inside out and upside down to say something no-one said and no-one else read.
You must be a woman. It's my experience mostly women (usually those with multiple divorces) twist clear statements completely inside out and upside down to say something no-one said and no-one else read.
You must be a woman then. This thread about rental crisis and you come out of nowhere talking about imaginary people buying 10 investment properties at $4m while not even owning a single property yourself
Meanwhile you're a renter LARPer with wizard hat talking about imaginary properties with imaginary numbers. You sure the landlord fixed that gas leak last week?
The women you claim to have experience with are definitely as real as the house you own 😂
and buying cheaper investment properties instead is pointless towards achieving their goal.
This is especially funny. Where TF did you read or get this from. Literally nobody has said this ever in this entire thread. You are ranting about absolutely irrelevant BS noone even mentioned and putting words into other people's mouths noone said. Please get some more reading comprehension and not just rereading rich dad poor dad all day while getting angry about the landlord 😆
@takutox: a) Yeah cause it's so much smarter to pay off someone else's home loan than buying your own, lol.
b) Plenty HAVE been discussing home purchase here. INCLUDING people talking about rent. But by all means do keep those filters on so you have an excuse to bitch and moan.
c) Read the entire thing next time instead of making yourself look foolish by cut & pasting to reverse the context. (Looking up sarcasm/flippant/facetious in a dictionary might raise those IQ points a much needed couple of digits first.)
@[Deactivated]: a) you being a "woman" again? literally nobody ever said this, EVER. The issue is that you talk like an expert on home ownership when it's clear you own zero and know zero making up imaginary and wrong numbers from your wazoo. THAT is the issue, not the twisted point you just said. Stick to discussions about renting because it's clear you know NOTHING as a LARPing permarenter.
b) Yes, home ownership. You have been on a very special rant talking about 10 investment properties with your Harry Potter wizard robe when it has nothing to do with anything. People are literally talking about first home buyers for PPOR/living and you are just playing imaginary shopping cart with 10 "investment properties" like a child.
c) No need for me to respond to this. Just insecure drivel and flailing because facts hurt your feelings.
Let me guess. You must be a woman. It's my experience mostly women (usually those with multiple divorces) twist clear statements completely inside out and upside down to say something no-one said and no-one else read
Christ lol
have fun moving into your car, while I'm young, own my own home and live with my family (no divorces, one partner my whole life and very happy) :L
@[Deactivated]: Sorry, you think it's reasonable to buy a house for 220k in a small remote town in Northern WA where there likely are very very few jobs and that proves your argument that "young people are too lazy to make their own coffee" (Which is such an embarrassing thing to say, honestly.)
Have you considered the fact that maybe having a job is a per-requisite for all of this? Like, you actually need to earn money to be able to afford anything at all?
I live regionally, I got really lucky when I bought my house, I also got really lucky that I got a good paying job in my field in this remote town. This is anecdotal and means absolutely nothing.
You will try ANYTHING to make this the problem of "yOuNg PeOpLe" because you're too jaded to even take 2 seconds to think deeply on a topic and take in evidence. Instead, you will google "cheapest house in australia" and then use that are proof that people are just lazy and you're well off because you picked yourself up by your bootstraps and you're super smart and everyone else is dumb and lazy.
Piss off.
@Nereosis: LOL. Do you need new glasses, or just have a reading comprehension impediment? I literally said…
But I'M the one not thinking deeply!? Hahaha!
Oh and I never "made it the problem of young people" … People of ALL AGES buy homes, and the FACT is something is only worth what someone else will pay for it. It's not greedy owners, it's not greedy real estate agents, it's BUYERS willing to overbid, overpay, where if no-one paid these crazy property prices then property prices wouldn't be so crazy.
@[Deactivated]: Nereosis needs glasses, an attitude adjustment and a serious financial education.
I grew up in significantly less favourable circumstances than them, yet they constantly cry poor, while at the same time stating how rich they are and attack anyone who understands the value of a dollar.
This is the sad result of someone growing up with such privelege, they don't even know how priveleged they are and can't get through life without the same lifestyle in which they were raised.
@Some Human: Yes it reminds me of an old album I own… in the liner notes the band owner talks about one song on the album about being poor… and he said something to the effect, everyone sings this song and thinks of themselves as poor but they'd realise they're quite rich if they looked at some other countries." A case in point came up in my youtube suggestions a few days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_EW-sDW6zA.
@[Deactivated]: It reminds me of the people who constantly shovel junk food into their mouths, don't exercise and wonder why they can't lose weight. Every big mac moves the goalposts further away. Same thing with money. Every dollar wasted moves the goalpost away. Every dollar saved brings it closer.
I have watched many documentaries like the one you linked. They made me realise being born in a western country with so much opportunity is like winning the lottery. This is why I take issue with people complaining about how hard life is in Australia. It's almost insulting. Millions of people would kill to have been born here and would not have squandered the opportunity.
@Nereosis: Just ignore. They're both delusional.
Faulty is a tenant LARPing as investment property buyer after reading rich dad poor dad one too many times. You can also tell by him implying the cost of LMI is nothing (iTs JuSt iNsUrAnCe 😆)
Getting investment property advice or even PPOR advice from him is like asking MJ how to keep your kids safe.
The other one is old bitter person that is dying on the current mortgage interest rate and says YOU are privileged for saying it's HARD to buy house. While she is saying it's EASY to buy house just have to not be lazy and save the $5 daily coffee. Yet you are apparently the privileged one. Brain rotted.
Remember smashed avo joke a few years ago. These people now parroting it unironically and don't realize they are the exact people that millionaire was stepping on 😂 only difference is that millionaire was rich and these guys are only rich in their dream mortgage / renter world.
@takutox: I'm surprised someone would defend a person who resorts to childish name calling, because they have no answers to the challenging questions put before them.
Nereosis has been a working adult for 10+ years. Having a combined life savings with the missus of presumably less than 70k at 30 is pathetic. That's why I want to know where the money went. My guess is drugs, alcohol (as they mentioned earlier), holidays and more drugs (I base this on the way they abuse anyone who dares respond to them in any thread). Rent and bills wouldn't eat up your whole pay. No way, especially not pre covid…
But I guess it's easier for them to just blame someone else for their failures rather than evaluate their own spending.
I know what I'm talking about because I've been on both sides of the fence. When I was in my early 20s, I would pay my rent and bills, buy food, then on the weekend I would go shopping and blow whatever was left. Rinse and repeat the next week. Whenever I got a payrise, it would make me spend more. This is what so many people do. If you have to blame something, blame capitalism.
I was lucky a family member pointed out how stupid I was being with my money and around the same time I also discovered the video "the story of stuff" (life changing stuff). After that, the road to 150k was a piece of piss. Especially when I started my side hustle.
And like I said, I was renting with someone. Cut the cost of living down significantly.
Don't get me wrong, on some level I'm glad that people are crap with money, otherwise they wouldn't be assisting me in paying down my house by buying my stuff on ebay.
You're right about one thing, Nereosis should just ignore me. He should have just kept scrolling instead of carrying on like a spoilt little girl and evading every relevant question about their spending. They know exactly how they disposed of their disposable income and don't want to prove me right by telling the truth that they squandered it all. I was the same. The difference is that I grew up.
I never said I was rich, just better than the average millenial when it comes to money.
Dying on the current interest rate? It would have to get to 10 - 12% before I start struggling. Even then, I can just reset the loan term and or let it chew through my savings. The reason I payed it down so much is so I wouldn't struggle if something like 12% interest rates happened.
Bitter? I'm not the one hurling abuse…that was old mate.
I was just trying to educate a bunch of entitled whingers on where they're going wrong. Don't blame society for your own failings. Simple.
@Some Human: Your entire essay just reeks of privilege and I am guessing you failed math in school and that's why you went to TAFE.
Everyone has diff life circumstances. You yourself are 35+ talking shit and crying about people in better situations than you (they both own houses too including me and are much younger than you, just be quiet trying to act like you're in a much better financial position or a hard working enlightened genius). Luck plays a big role in salary in early career and salary takes time to build. You can't really count the years of low paid jobs people take on while they're studying uni or building career where they're just barely surviving and pretend that's 10 years like they were making the highest year #10 income for that entire 10 years :/ this is why ppl that failed math class and can't grasp basic logic shouldn't talk financial numbers.
I'm guessing you never went to uni if you can't understand basics such as that. I also question your maths skills because they are dogshit and you've never actually provided real examples (because you can't)
Once you graduate uni (if you do, and if you do on time, because you have a harder time getting good marks because you are working full time; which I also don't expect you to understand as someone who probably has never gone to uni). You then have 10% HECS to pay out of your salary. You could be anywhere from 22-27 when graduating depending on how lucky you were in uni to have people supporting you, not having to work, having people to go to for help. It's even harder or impossible if you are uneducated. Your salary tends to get capped.
Even in most good careers the starting salary 5-10 years ago AFTER uni was about 50-60k. Your after tax salary for that is only 42-47k. This was an educated software engineer starting salary back then.
Let's say you have to pay rent, utilities, phone, internet, bills. That leaves you with 20-30k (GENEROUS ESTIMATE). Back in non WFH days you'd need to live in reasonable areas to get to work. I am assuming a low rent sharing with others so a not very great lifestyle with not much space. Also doesn't take into account any furniture or PC or train tickets (this alone is $2k), textbook costs and petrol to get to uni and work. This is not barista coffee, it's the necessities of just making a basic living without buying smashed avo
Now how much food cost? $15 a day at 365 is already $5,475. This is a really conservative estimate, without even taking into account stuff like packet coffee (not barista is even expensive!! and home coffee machines cost money) or snacks or even general ingredients you keep around. Of course you can eat 2 packs instant noodle but you pay for it long term with your health.
Now want a car? That is already 5k+ for a shitbox. Plus 1k a year in rego, plus potentially 500 in insurance even with a decent discount.
This person actually bought their house at a good time and is much younger than you (30 ain't the same as 35) and both look to have successful relationships with their partners. why TF you preaching about how good your financials are when you are 35 with still a mortgage and can't get sick off your job without losing your house and probably had your partner leave you because you had to give up your entire life, youth and free time just to still be poorer than Neoresis 😆
You are delusional and don't understand the mathematics of career progression or the different circumstances people have. Thinking that people are just lazy rather than having bad upbringings, mental health issues or less opportunities while you yourself couldn't achieve much worth shit at 35+ while having the mental health to work for 15 yrs, and still stuck on your mortgage in a low cost area.
Get this in your head. You are 35+ still paying a mortgage. You don't even own the damn house and your house isn't even an expensive one. Please stop giving financial advice when you yourself haven't even achieved what you're preaching is "easy" while you sacrifice your entire life and all discretionary spending.
You are f*** tripping thinking that people just entering the workforce can just save their 20k salary (after tax) to get a 100-200k deposit in any reasonable time. Especially not until they build yoe and up their salary over time.
You've been in the workforce for an equivalent of a couple each working 8 years (16 years if you're 35+ and went to TAFE) and have nothing to show for it but still struggling with mortgage and you are talking big like financial guru of the century 😆
You are crazy saying that the 20-40k (BEFORE TAX) jobs people get when they're uneducated or still studying can still save 20k of it and that's the problem. To save 20k at that point in your career you need to leech 20k off your parents.
Please, please go back and take some basic maths classes and learn what the median salary is, especially of those early in their career. You are seriously comparing your salary 10+ yrs ago to today like a complete clueless mathlet
Read with me
You are only saving 20-30k a year with up to 15 years more experience than someone new in the workforce
You are only saving 20-30k a year with up to 15 years more experience than someone new in the workforce
You are only saving 20-30k a year with up to 15 years more experience than someone new in the workforce
This difference is LITERALLY less than the difference in the salary you have over them. You apparently have almost zero discretionary spending. Have a think about that and your mind will be blown at how bad you are at math
@takutox: I have nothing to show for the first 8 years of working because I squandered it on stupid shit like pub meals, clothes, coffees [insert other wasteful expenses here]. Shouldn't have done that. Set me back years. The subsequent years were when I started saving. I was also really happy renting and wasn't interested in buying a house until I hit 30, by which time I already had the money to do it. I was just having trouble leaving my comfort zone.
In hindsight, I wish I had bought sooner, but I don't blame anyone for that but myself. Certainly not blaming society.
I'm happy I managed to buy a house I can afford in my dream location and only my name is on the title. I love my job and my simple life. If I had my time again, I still wouldn't go to uni.
@Some Human: You completely missed the point, did you even read or do the math?
You're saying you're putting about 20-30% into the mortgage at current interest rate. This is what you claim you are saving with almost no discretionary spending
How much do you reckon you were making over your 15 year younger self? 20-30% less? Or even less than that. Oh yeah, don't even mention HECS either.
In case you didn't realize or work it out, if you were younger self you'd be saving 0 or even losing money. But you're telling people they can save when they're new to the workforce when you can't even do it to any meaningful degree yourself with a significantly higher salary due to your yoe :/
Can't believe you'd blame $4.50 coffee which is f***** $900 (rofl) over a year and has the potential to increase your productivity dramatically leading to better study or job performance. Yeah "it all adds up". Then starts to list random BS stuff like "oh you must have spend it on drugs". Like GTFO outta here. I don't even drink a drop of alcohol and even I know you're full of shit.
You are just blaming others showing your own privilege and making up fake and incorrect assumptions about others all the while you did worse than us for your age and your own math shows you are wrong because you'd be saving ZERO if we were to reduce your salary to someone with 15 less yoe :/
It is easy to blame foreigners for all the problems faced in Australia. In fact, the crazy rise in house prices over the last decade or so has always been mistakenly thought to be driven by foreign investments but in fact it was our boomers hoarding up real estate.
That has lead to unaffordability in purchasing a dwelling which then many locals have to rent for a longer period. This isnt solely driven by overseas students but they are the easiest to point a finger to hey…..
It is easy to blame foreigners…
Sums up the last couple of thousand years of politics.
Just stop being lazy.