I Saved a Lot of Money Owning a PHEV. Here Are My Figures

Switchblade88 on 10/03/2023 - 22:27
Last edited 11/03/2023 - 10:24 by 1 other user

Do you like saving money?

Do you like to be ridiculed by EV owners, ICE vehicle owners and car brand snobs alike?

Do you have less than $80k to invest??

If you said 'yes' out loud to any of the above, see a psychologist - this is a forum post, nobody can hear you. But keep reading!

TL;DR

PHEVs are great, you should seriously consider buying one.
Electricity costs me one fifth of the cost of buying petrol, but I can still drive from Melbourne to Sydney in a blackout.

The vehicle in question

As I live in a rural area, I need the ability to drive long distances at short notice, into areas that aren't sufficiently serviced by EV charging points. BUT I also wanted the advantages of an EV in terms of significantly lower running costs. a PHEV - Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle - was the best choice for me; not only because of the above points but also because of the lower upfront costs compared to a pure EV, but also because I needed a towball and most EVs don't have this capability.

I bought a 2021 MG HS PHEV for $46k, about 18 months ago. It has:

  • a 16.6kWh battery
  • a 37L fuel tank
  • Luxury features like a powered tailgate, 10" display, TPMS, moon roof, heated seats
  • Safety features like adaptive cruise control, 360° camera, collision warnings etc.

I have it setup to charge between 9pm to 3pm (18hrs offpeak) via the included 10a charger, running through a smart switch with power monitoring. My daily commute is a 26km round trip to drop the kids to school, at highway speeds with minimal traffic. I can do this trip twice a day without having to recharge, and this consistency means I've been able to draw some interesting datapoints.

Data summary

After 18 months, I have:

  • Driven almost 30,000km
  • Filled up with 1200L of U95 petrol, over 39 fills, spending $2150
  • Charged with 3306kWh of electricity, costing $650 (at 20c/kWh offpeak)
  • Longest drive between fills: 1793km, with 278kWh charged during this period

Measured from the smart plug (Not the car dashboard, which is a bit less accurate), I am averaging 19.1 kWh per 100km. This is marginally higher than an average EV, but since I'm doing this trip at 100km/h for the most part, that makes sense - if I was city cruising, then the air resistance at 50km/h is only 1/4, which makes a massive difference to economy. I can gain a solid 5% battery range on a 50% battery trip just by following the schoolbus!

Now is where I need my detailed spreadsheet figures for calculations… My average fuel economy is 4.0L per 100km. This is GREAT, but it's also combining in the range when running on battery, which skews the figures. By splitting out the fuel range versus the battery (i.e. kWh input) range every time I filled up the tank, I was able to get a much more accurate figure of 9.5L/100km, which makes a lot more sense for a 1.5L turbo engine.

Now because it's a hybrid, I can directly compare the electric-only economy of my PHEV with it in fuel economy in the same vehicle, which removes variables like weight, driving style, tyres, aerodynamics etc. I have an average fuel cost of $18.81 per 100km, as compared to an average electric cost of $3.77 per 100km.

Plugging in costs me ONE FIFTH of the price of petrol.

If I had solar, or my offpeak was less than 20c per kWh, then there would be even greater benefits. The 17,468km I've driven as 'EV only' would have cost me $3290 in petrol - which means I've saved $2630 over the life of the vehicle so far.

Conclusion

Now while EVs are excellent, and make a heap of sense in urban areas with ubiquitous access to charging points and nearby services (like medical specialists), we simply don't have that luxury in regional areas. And ICE vehicles still have a long age ahead before they are successfully phased out - You won't be towing your boat to Bonnie Doon without a heavy-duty towing vehicle, or getting your groceries delivered in an electric B-double anytime soon. In the interim, I think a PHEV is an excellent alternative for many car buyers who can't afford $80k upfront for Tesla Model 3, or those with range anxiety especially in regional areas.

Automotive

Comments

  • Muzeeb on 10/03/2023 - 22:39
    +11

    Great title. I know you were stressed about it. 😉

    Thanks for taking the time to present this info.

    • Switchblade88 on 10/03/2023 - 22:58
      +5

      Thanks heaps!!

    • AustriaBargain on 10/03/2023 - 23:19
      +1

      Has the savings been worth the stress tho? I guess OP went through the stress so we don't have to.

      • Muzeeb on 11/03/2023 - 00:26
        +7

        Thanks Mervyn. I'm far from in love with EV's. Quite the opposite in fact. I'm not even convinced EV's are the solution.

        I am interested in learning new stuff and appreciate when people make an effort to educate others.

      • Euphemistic on 11/03/2023 - 06:34
        +4

        That’s nice. Are you trying to point out how environmentally bad EVs are while ignoring the ongoing use of pollutants in an ICE?

      • SBOB on 11/03/2023 - 06:58
        +11

        you might want to know what it takes to make them

        Excellent point.
        I'll continue to drive my ice car, that we all know grow on trees, and buying fuel, that we all know is environmentally friendly and no one ever starts wars over oil.

        Thanks for making such a compelling argument against ev vehicles.

        • ThithLord on 11/03/2023 - 12:13

          MATE UNLESS THE NEXT EV IS 100% ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY, THEY ARE POINTLESS!@

          • seannami on 14/03/2023 - 14:25
            +2

            @ThithLord: Erm, not sure I call saving oodles on running costs and coming out environmentally better in the long run (you know, accounting for life of vehicle not just until it hits showroom) is pointless? Yes the batteries take more to make in the moment, but the benefits outstrip pure ICE and even plugless Hybrid in around 32000kms even where electricity is generated largely by non-renewable fuels, around 3-4 years for a normal use (or even shorter according to come articles). Unless you are a car-a-year kind of person and just dump cars without selling on or recycling (in which case I doubt the environment is even on your radar), its still a solidly viable option. If you look at a lifespan of closer to 10-15 years (whether with the same owner or not), EVs come out far better.

            It's not an all or nothing scenario- just cause it's not perfect doesn't mean its not better. Will they fix climate change on their own? No. Do they contribute to lowering our overall outputs? yes

            https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myt…

            https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-d…

            https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-…

            • ThithLord on 14/03/2023 - 15:33
              +1

              @seannami: Sorry m8. My comment was tongue-in-cheek

              • seannami on 14/03/2023 - 15:59
                +1

                @ThithLord: Ha, sorry, I should have realised :p I hear so many similar statements said seriously I can't tell anymore!

  • JimmyF on 10/03/2023 - 22:51

    Electricity costs me one fifth of the cost of buying petrol, but I can still drive from Melbourne to Sydney in a blackout.

    Sounds like you might be in VIC? If so, you forgot to factor in the road tax per km for PHEVs to your calcs.

    I was able to get a much more accurate figure of 9.5L/100km, which makes a lot more sense for a 1.5L turbo engine.
    I have an average fuel cost of $18.81 per 100km, as compared to an average electric cost of $3.77 per 100km.

    Have you compared your running costs to a true hybrid? A camry/RAV4 hybrid gets less than 7l/100km and no PHEV road tax either.

    I love EVs but I find the PHEV figures don't seem to stack up for me.

    • Switchblade88 on 10/03/2023 - 23:07
      -1

      Sounds like you might be in VIC?

      Nah, just an example. The double taxation means it actually doesn't make much sense to get a PHEV down there for sure. I think there's more EV charging points available, which swings the balance well in favour of a pure EV instead.

      Have you compared your running costs to a true hybrid?

      You mean a 'mild' hybrid (that's the common term when drawing a distinction with a plugin hybrid). Not particularly, but even at 7L/100km that's still roughly 4x the running costs of electric. Having said that, my old Sorento would get 7.5L/100km, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay a premium for (say) a Rav4 Hybrid with such a minimal reduction in running costs.

      Toyota would make a killing with the Rav4 Prime (their PHEV) but not available outside the USA sadly.

  • Stopback on 10/03/2023 - 23:00
    -5

    Drive at 95km and watch the savings

    The question is how long can your car last.

    Or resale value after five years.

    Ergo get a Toyota etc

  • cloudy on 10/03/2023 - 23:09
    +1

    I can gain a solid 5% battery range on a 50% battery trip just by following the schoolbus!

    what kinda distance behind the bus to obtain teh slip?

    • Switchblade88 on 10/03/2023 - 23:13
      +2

      Usual cruising distance (100m??), I'm certainly not tailgating. Bus leisurely cruises to town at 90km/h so the reduced speed would also be helping a bit as well.

      • cloudy on 10/03/2023 - 23:16
        +2

        100m is very far, no way you're getting any benefit from that distance lol.

        I think I remember myths busters used 3 car lengths or something to get around 15% benefit…its easiest to guess distance based on car lengths (how many cars can fit between u and bus)

        • Switchblade88 on 11/03/2023 - 00:00
          +2

          3-4 car lengths seems much more accurate, yeah.

          One or two full bus lengths, I suppose? I've never really thought about it since the adaptive cruise control does all the work!

      • AustriaBargain on 10/03/2023 - 23:25
        -1

        What's the calculation on how much extra time you're spending in your car in your pursuit of savings? And the mental energy of constantly thinking about it, what's the total amount of hours this has all been on your mind?

        • Switchblade88 on 10/03/2023 - 23:57
          +6

          As a bookkeeper by trade, I do indeed put a lot of mental energy into figures :)

          10 mins each direction x4 trips a day x 5 days a week is over 3 hours leisurely cruising through the countryside. I don't have to worry about traffic congestion so most of the trip is idly watching the battery gauge drain, so it's very easy for me to extrapolate the data from there in my head before I get to my spreadsheets.

          For the primary datapoints, I take a photo of my dash and fuel receipt every time I fill up which gives me accurate & dated interval figures. The smart energy meter data is copied into the spreadsheet at the same time as the photo data, which is only like once a month when I fill up.

          how much extra time you're spending in your car in your pursuit of savings?

          I'm going to be driving these distances regardless of the vehicle, so I might as well be saving money at the same time! I'm certainly not cruising around town just to bump up my odometer haha

            • Switchblade88 on 11/03/2023 - 00:17
              +8

              @AustriaBargain: In terms of billable hours, I've spent maybe 4 hours cumulative in actual spreadsheet work and data entry, plus the hour it took me to write up this post. Idle time behind the wheel clearly doesn't count.

              At work I've spent more time on bigger projects to show less savings - but one thing I've learned is you can't get good decisions from management without good data. Most importantly, a penny saved is a penny earned.

              Make no mistake, this has not been stressful concentration on my part to massage out some figures - I thoroughly enjoy this kind of stuff, and since I already had the figures for my own benefit I thought I'd share. Consider this a downtime project equal to woodworking or the like.

              Heck, if someone considers getting an EV or PHEV in the future because of this post, then I consider it an absolute win - even if I don't personally benefit.

              • Croshema on 11/03/2023 - 14:59
                +2

                @Switchblade88: Sounds like you enjoyed presenting this data, I spend many 100s of hours of time and energy on my Hobbies a year, and I love it.

                I imagine people on this very forum spend 4+ hours worrying about low dollar purchased all the time.

                However did someone comment the fuel usage is 9.5L per 100km with no electric assist, seems a lot?

                • Switchblade88 on 11/03/2023 - 15:28

                  @Croshema:

                  Sounds like you enjoyed presenting this data

                  I absolutely did! Glad you found it interesting

                  9.5L per 100km with no electric assist, seems a lot?

                  It's not an exact figure, more a 'guestimated' average.

                  I have two operating modes - EV and Auto. Auto will use the battery alongside the petrol motor for additional torque, so trying to split out 'petrol only' when the battery is getting used regardless is a lot of massaging the spreadsheet to see where exactly the balance lies.

                  I've had several trips where the tank would likely be an average of 7-8L/100km, like long highway drives, but I've also pushed it north of 20L/100km when towing a very full trailer :) . Since I only have roughly 11,000km of petrol driving in total, the (rough guess) of 2000km driving with a trailer on means the excess fuel consumption has pushed my average a lot higher. Most people don't have their fuel consumption averages with a trailer being towed 20% of the time!

                  • Croshema on 11/03/2023 - 16:56

                    @Switchblade88: Interesting, I do hope PHEV development continues and leads to cars that while maybe comprised in some areas at least offer great flexibility of use.

                • md333 on 11/03/2023 - 18:01
                  +1

                  @Croshema: I've got a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, that does consistently around 7L/100km when not able to charge. (Drove it from Melbourne to Perth immediately after buying it so had a good chance to see how it goes without electricity). The Mitsubishi has quite a different drivetrain to the MG though, no gearbox. A fair bit more expensive though, I paid $40k for a 2 year old one.

        • cloudy on 11/03/2023 - 20:27
          +1

          What's the calculation on how much extra time you're spending in your car in your pursuit of savings? And the mental energy of constantly thinking about it, what's the total amount of hours this has all been on your mind?

          lol, how many hours have you spent posting on ozb constantly tapping away for no gain?

  • Euphemistic on 10/03/2023 - 23:24
    +3

    Thanks for putting in the effort to show us real world figures. You mention you needed extra range from the ICE, but I also wonder how often you actually exceeded the range of the equivalent battery EV in a day. You appear to need to exceed the short range of the PHEV battery regularly, but would a 300km EV range suffice?. That is you mention 2x school runs per day, but not how often you travelled more than say 250km.

    Obviously rural usage is much different to urban and a PHEV would suit more rural owners that travel further from home than half the battery range more than once a week.

    • Switchblade88 on 10/03/2023 - 23:40
      +1

      A day trip to most medical specialists is easily 600km round trip for us.

      You could possibly pull off a trip like this in an EV, but it assumes that there is sufficient available/working EV chargers enroute as well as at the doctor's offices/hospitals (which has never been the case). The additional time spent recharging for a trip like this also becomes nontrivial - a 50kW charger would ideally take an hour for every 250km of range as compared to 5 minutes at the servo.

      If it was an overnight trip it would be doable with overnight charging, but then you add a whole lot of logistical issues like accommodation, kids having somewhere to stay, getting them sorted for school without us, etc. Not to mention the financial costs that we just can't afford on the disability pension. So day trips make the most sense.

      • Euphemistic on 11/03/2023 - 06:36
        +1

        Thanks. Your usage case obviously suits the PHEV.

  • payless69 on 11/03/2023 - 07:26

    Cool!
    I did the figures on the Mitsi, asked a lot of owners and ended up with thumbs down.
    Ended up with a Schreyer designed diesel, throw in half price oil from Supercheap and yep it vibrates so our next has to be full electric. Tested the MG but hey it felt so stoneage.

  • Sunshines bright on 11/03/2023 - 07:57
    +1

    My Mitsubishi phev has done well! Considering on a daily basis we seldom drive more than 10 km. And we have both solar and a $250.00 NSW transportation card so when we do need petrol it’s been free and the phev is set up to charge only when the sun rises till sunset 🌅!

  • jonkvh on 11/03/2023 - 08:16
    +1

    They're brilliant figures for sure but wait till something goes wrong, these things are incredibly complex to work on.

    • Switchblade88 on 11/03/2023 - 10:46
      +3

      The MG has a 7 year warranty on the whole car including battery, so they'll be footing the bill with any issues until then.

      And it's surprisingly straightforward once you look under the hood. Anyone who's played with higher-end RC vehicles will recognise the battery pack, 3-phase inverter and brushless motor. The electronics side is a bit of a black box but that's par for the course with any vehicle nowadays unfortunately; I'm counting on people reverse-engineering the software between now and whenever it needs tinkering…

      • jonkvh on 11/03/2023 - 16:00
        +1

        I like your thinking. At least on the tinkering side there'll be an 'aftermarket' that services better than Tesla a la Rich Rebuilds type of thing.

  • Boogerman on 11/03/2023 - 08:49
    +1

    You could get a BYD Atto 3 Extended Range for ~ this price after incentives, which has >400km real world range.
    It will hold its value better, as society shifts away from fossil fuels & said vehicles' depreciation rate accelerates.
    You also don't have anywhere near the maintenance or fuel costs of a PHEV.

    • techno2000 on 11/03/2023 - 09:42

      Yes, if you are gonna buy an expensive chinese car then just buy an electric chinese car. BYD Atto 3 is a better choice around the $50k mark.

      • Boogerman on 11/03/2023 - 10:33

        Yep, MG is Chinese

      • Switchblade88 on 11/03/2023 - 15:03

        At that price it definitely makes a lot of sense - especially if you're an urban driver with less range anxiety to deal with.

        We've had rather scant EV competition in Aus so anything priced less than a Tesla will have a big slice of market share available to tap into

        • Boogerman on 12/03/2023 - 06:10

          If BYD weren’t production constrained, the Atto 3 would outsell Model Y, Model 3 & Camry.

    • megadeth on 11/03/2023 - 23:57

      Apparently OP bought long before the incentives kicked in.

  • jrvb42 on 11/03/2023 - 08:53
    +4

    Thanks for the article. Have you factored in amortisation costs for the batteries?
    Nice to see you have only rejoiced at the savings, rather than claiming any environmental benefits.
    Anyways, a summary by someone without a barrow to push is refreshing. Thanks again.

    • Boogerman on 11/03/2023 - 10:34
      +2

      ICE need amortising too.
      Typically major engine problems at >200,000km compared to over 1,000,000km for an EV

      • Switchblade88 on 11/03/2023 - 11:00
        +2

        Interestingly, the engine is getting such little work that I'm averaging less than 5000km of motor usage per service (the oil must be practically clean!)

        Then you consider the regenerative braking reducing the brake pad/disc usage, and the electric motor providing most of the torque, then it seems most wearing parts are getting a lot less wear than a normal ICE. I don't see any reason why I couldn't push this petrol motor a lot further than 200,000km if I keep it well maintained.

  • saltypete on 11/03/2023 - 09:09
    +3

    Have you factored in the price difference between the ICE and PHEV models?

    • techno2000 on 11/03/2023 - 09:37
      +4

      This !!

      There seems to be a $14k difference in case of MG HS ICE vs MG HS PHEV and the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV costs around $10k more than equivalent Mitsubishi ICE.And the lower RAV4 Hybrid models actually cost same as Mitsubishi ICE. No way are you gonna recover that difference.

      https://mgmotor.com.au/models/mg-hs/#modelRange

      https://mgmotor.com.au/models/mg-hsplusev/#modelRange

    • Croshema on 11/03/2023 - 15:11

      I don’t think it is fair to say it is typical to have major engine problems at >200,000km.

      Well, aside from Range rovers, Jeep’s (electrical).

      Of course there are dud cars, but it’s not usually to hard to avoid them.

  • Sinnerator on 11/03/2023 - 09:46

    How much is a similar brand/quality/specced ICE vehicle?
    Now factor that and depreciation into your savings.

    • Switchblade88 on 11/03/2023 - 10:54
      +1

      The highest-specc'd MG HS (the 'Essence' I think) was only $4k less than the PHEV when I purchased.

      Having driven the lower-end models, I can confidently say the tiny petrol engine absolutely sucks by itself without the electric motor to add the extra torque. I would gladly pay $4k for that extra performance - even if I made none of the savings I listed - it is that much of an improvement.

      Depreciation is a tricky beast since the equivalent MG HS PHEV is now nearly $50k to purchase new; and because it's a better performing vehicle it'll depreciate much less than the cheaper HS models as well. So I might actually have close to $0 in amortisation if I sold today.

  • Kayrhcp on 11/03/2023 - 10:18
    +1

    This is really cool. Thanks for sharing your stats/experience.

    As someone who drives between Melbourne and Newcastle twice a year, I think a PHEV would be for us if we can afford it. Thanks for letting me know your experience!

  • lostgoat on 11/03/2023 - 10:36

    Only clicked to find out what PHEV means .

  • botisto on 11/03/2023 - 11:06
    +1

    Thanks for the info. Your overall 4 L/100km figure is interesting, this means the cost of electricity consumption still needs to be included to compare to a conventional hybrid?

    My corolla hybrid gets 3.9 L/100km with no effort on 91 RON. Admittedly this is a smaller and cheaper car but I wonder if a rav 4 hybrid with it's rated 4.8 L / 100kms would have similar running costs to you

    • Switchblade88 on 11/03/2023 - 15:45
      +1

      the cost of electricity consumption still needs to be included to compare to a conventional hybrid?

      It does, yes. Since my power costs equal 1/5 of my fuel costs, it would make sense to extrapolate that 4.0L/100km up 20% more to about 4.8L/100km for an identical economy value to a Rav4.

      Other catch is upfront cost ($60k+ for a Rav4 hybrid) and availability - if there wasn't such a chronic shortage in the country, it'd be a great choice for quite a lot of people, but the 18 month wait is a big dealbreaker for many.

      • botisto on 12/03/2023 - 02:10

        Interesting, I expect PHEVs are going to make sense to a lot of people in the coming years as we so slowly transition to electric

  • lostgoat on 11/03/2023 - 11:39
    +1

    OP I don't see any depreciation costs ?
    Quick research after 3 yrs they retain a little above 50% and after 5 about 1/3 of the original cost . This is the largest cost of owning them .

    • Switchblade88 on 11/03/2023 - 14:56
      +1

      I have no idea where you think a three year old car is only worth half the retail price - regardless of the make or model.

      Certainly doesn't match up with sales figures over the last few years where used cars have been significantly inflated due to a lack of available vehicles and restricted import quantities.

      The HS PHEV with the highest k's @ 25,000km is still priced at $47k… even if that is a bit inflated, there is no evidence to make your timeframe make any sense, for anything on the market.

      • seannami on 17/03/2023 - 10:58

        How long were you thinking of owning it OP?

        • Switchblade88 on 17/03/2023 - 11:05
          +1

          I'm not one to swap cars every couple of years - I've held onto basically everything until it gets to the point it needs major work done that is worth more than the value of the car. I really liked my old Sorento, but spending several thousand dollars to replace the suspension, tyres and diesel injectors didn't make sense when I could put that money towards a newer/more efficient vehicle.

          I'll probably consider my options in five years or so near the end of the warranty period; if the market is good value for a 7yo PHEV then I'll consider a tradein. If it's lost too much value but still running well (and the expiring warranty won't be needed) then I'll likely hang onto it for a lot longer.

  • AryaTheExplorer on 11/03/2023 - 12:32
    -1

    If you factor in depreciation and insurance, you are not saving anything compared to buying a hybrids/ICE with solid resell like a Camry. Price of a 18months old Camry with 30k KMs has minimal depreciation, where as you'd lucky to get 70-75% of RRP through private sell.

  • lgacb08 on 11/03/2023 - 23:03

    This is just poor economic assessment to justify your expense, if looking at purely cost perspective then anyone buying a secondhand Toyota hybrid is already well ahead of you with their 4L/100Km figure without a single cent on electricity, even some decent non hybrid in the range of 6L/100km can easily achieve similar costing without even sweating behind a schoolbus (and being pedantic with U95). And the proven mechanical reliability of those option is well ahead. Your PHEV is just a glorified cheaper version of the Toyota hybrid with unknown reliability.

    • bhubb18 on 13/03/2023 - 09:46
      +1

      Based on that buying a $500 clapped out camry will be the better value option.

      You can't compare a new car to a used car

      • lgacb08 on 14/03/2023 - 08:12

        You can when talking about economic sense and usage purposes. A crapbox is one that can't be compared to a decent second hand one.

        • Switchblade88 on 16/03/2023 - 15:47

          One significant (and incorrect) assumption you're making is car availability.

          I could pull up to the local MG dealer and buy my PHEV off the lot, or wait the three weeks for the next delivery to get the colour I wanted. Looking at Rav4 Hybrids, they've now blown out to an 18-month waitlist with dealers not taking any orders because of excessive demand. And because of this, even a used Rav4 Hybrid was going to cost me more than a brand new PHEV - which is still the case today.

  • techno2000 on 14/03/2023 - 15:15

    I never understood the use of a PHEV.
    Seems like nowhere land in between Hybrids and Electric cars.

    You have to pay $10k more than a hybrid and yet you cant go a longer distance than 50km or so on electric.
    Sure you can do your daily commute on electric only but since the battery is so small,you are cycling it to the max everyday. Whats the condition of that battery in 5 years after being cycled to the max daily?Whats the replacement cost?

    And PHEV's are even more complicated than hybrids.Whereas Toyota hybrids are a known quantity whats the long term reliability of a PHEV? How much is it gonna cost when it breaks?

    • seannami on 17/03/2023 - 11:31

      I have family with Outlander PHEVS- both cars are 8 years old, one is driving constantly (close to 300,000kms last I heard), the other does regular trips interstate and the usual runs to the shops. Nothing has gone catastrophically wrong in either car (or even minorly wrong, I don't think) and the batteries are both running fine (can't tell you the capacity exactly, but as the owner of the second Outlander is the kind who would be up in arms about this kind of stuff, we'd know about it if the battery had started to fail.

      I also don't think PHEV batteries fully drain like regular EVs, and behave like normal hybrid batteries regenerating off the brakes and some petrol, but being plug in they rely much less on petrol as the source of power- they don't run as one car on two independent engines. I could be off, though, I discounted buying a PHEV when the FBT exemptions came in and jumped straight to EV so didn't look too far into how exactly they work.

  • opt on 14/03/2023 - 15:49

    You need to compare the cost of ownership and running costs against a similarly configured MG HS ICE vehicle to talk about any meaningful savings. Because:

    • ICE vehicles are generally a lot cheaper than a PHEV which means you are paying more upfront for a PHEV (how much did you pay extra over the ICE variant ?).
    • ICE vehicles are also lighter than a PHEV therefore you consume more fuel driving a PHEV under petrol power. Which means you cannot compare fuel consumption of your PHEV under petrol power to a an ICE car when calculating savings.

    And lets not forget about the additional complexity added by having both a petrol engine and EV components.

    • Switchblade88 on 16/03/2023 - 15:38
      +1

      how much did you pay extra over the ICE variant?

      The petrol only MS HS Essence variant was $4000 less than the PHEV version when I purchased.

      ICE vehicles are also lighter than a PHEV

      The kerb weight is 1700kg for petrol only MG HS, versus 1775kg for the PHEV. That 4% difference is easily taken up by a single passenger and would not make any measurable difference to economy calculations.

      And lets not forget about the additional complexity added by having both a petrol engine and EV components.

      You cannot claim the 'additional complexity' as a disadvantage whilst also ignoring the additional redundancy provided as well as reducing the overall load and wearing on the car as a whole. Unlike either both an ICE or EV vehicle I can still arrive at my destination in the absence of either petrol or electricity, or if either side of the drivetrain fails for any reason.

      As I noted earlier in the comments, there is a huge reduction in the runtime (and thus wear) on the petrol engine - e.g. only 5000km runtime between oil changes - so I have no reason to think I couldn't run the vehicle for many more years than any equivalent ICE car.

    • seannami on 17/03/2023 - 10:42
      +1

      "you cannot compare fuel consumption of your PHEV under petrol power to a an ICE car when calculating savings"

      Surely a cost/km travel is a better comparison for cost savings than pure fuel consumption on petrol-only, unless OP is the kind of person who forgets to charge their car (which they don't seem to be) they are basically never going to be running purely on petrol (or purely on power for that matter, being a hybrid), and so the petrol-only consumption is moot.

      OP is getting roughly 9 cents a kilometer based on their data. An MG HS ICE gets, apparently, 9.3l/100kms on average. With petrol at roughly $1.80/l, you are looking at about 17 cents per kilometer. With the 8 cent difference, the $4000 extra out of pocket is covered at about 50,000kms (give or take). At the rate OP is driving, the extra out of pocket will pay for itself this time next year. ICE is only coming out on top in this context if OP keeps cars for less than 2 years. If you mean that the cars are non-comparable because of the weight difference, a Kodiaq weighs the same as OP's PHEV and gets 8.2l/100, so 15 cents/km, so it might take an extra 3 months to break even. That's assuming the advertised l/100 is accurate.

      As for the things that can go wrong- things are less likely to go wrong on the EV side than the petrol. I've got a 13 year old Prius and nothing has gone wrong on either side barring a drained 12v, and that was from not using it during lockdown.

      Should note I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I've been doing a lot of travel cost maths lately and just wanted to have all cards on the table in case people were looking to make decisions off the thread.

      • Switchblade88 on 17/03/2023 - 11:14
        +1

        You're pretty well bang on with those $/km figures - I've got $18.83 per 100km with petrol, as compared to the $3.77 per 100km on electricity. This is where my 5:1 ratio of costs is derived from. I should note that my fuel costs are based over the total expenditure of the life of the car so far; if petrol becomes more than $2 per L then ongoing costs will be higher than my figures.

        Combined average is at $9.72 per 100km, which will reduce as my EV k's keep climbing. It also would be a lot less if I had solar, or even my old offpeak rate that was 11c per kWh (almost half the price!!)

  • Poor Ass on 17/03/2023 - 13:40

    how many km can you get on just pure battery power?

    • hothed on 17/03/2023 - 15:14

      The OP said the car has a 16.6kW battery and uses on average 19.1kw to travel 100km.

      16.6 / 19.1 * 100kms = 86km.

      Sounds a bit high for a PHEV, probably only use 80% of battery capacity, so 86km * 0.8 = 68kms.

    • Switchblade88 on 17/03/2023 - 16:40

      @hothed wasn't too far off - I can put about 10kWh of charge into the battery when it's 0%, with obviously the rest in reserve since you'd never want to fully flatten the battery.

      I can get one commute of 26km to be on average 48% of range +/- about 2%, so extrapolating that I can reliably drive 52km on a full charge. 10kW of capacity / 19kWh x 60 minutes = 32 minutes of driving which matches nicely.

      This is all at my measured average, but for city driving at slower speeds the efficiency will measurably improve thus giving a longer range closer to the 63km as it's supposed to be rated at.

      • Poor Ass on 17/03/2023 - 16:46

        63km sounds reasonable but they always lie

        Outlander PHEV the biggest battery range claim 1.5L/100km. With a 56L tank and full charge that's 3733km and that's not possible. 1000-1200km is more believable.

        maybe the ridic 1.5L or the MG's 1.7L/100km is when it has battery left

        BETTER EVERYDAY LIFE WITH NEW MG HS Plug-in Hybrid
        Life is getting better when we charge MG HS PHEV every day. This is 100% electric vehicle with hybrid system. The state-of-the-art technology is developed to fit executive lifestyles. Just charge the vehicle every day, you can travel up to 67 km in 100% electric mode which meets all your daily needs. Of course, you can switch to hybrid mode at any time.

  • EBC on 28/03/2024 - 16:32

    Hi OP, thanks for posting this. I just came across it and wondered if you would mind updating on how all these number stack up after another year? Any further thoughts on the depreciation side of things? It looks like there's a decent number of used 2021 MG PHEV for around the $28k-$30k mark now so I wonder how this factors in.

    I am tossing up between the pure EV variant of the MG Essence and the PHEV version, both of which seem to be available in for a 2021 model around the same price ($28k-$30k). I have a different use case than you as I am in Metro Sydney and honestly would rarely use the petrol engine capacity. Maybe once a month do I travel more than 50km without returning home in my regular day to day life. Then maybe add in 3-4 times a year where I might go on a bit of a road trip (somewhere between 200-1000km). I note from your initial post and comments that you would consider a pure EV more sensible for this use case. Keen to just get your thoughts as you have obviously thought about these things!

    Thanks in advance!

    • Switchblade88 on 28/03/2024 - 20:13
      +1

      It'd be my pleasure!

      I've done some minor tweaks to my spreadsheet, as well as updated my power measurement device - it turns out the plugin Tuya-compatible current meter was about +/-10% for measured AC voltage, and thus the actual wattage measured was very inaccurate. I'm now using a custom ESP32 with a calibrated current clamp & relay control, so I can be much more confident my wattage figures are more accurate.

      As of now:

      • 30 months of ownership
      • 51,000km travelled
      • 67 fuel fills (about twice a month) for about 2000L of fuel

      Average is now about 18kWh/100km which is even better than I was getting; and that in turn means I'm at about a 7:1 expense ratio of electricity to petrol. I've almost spent $900 over the last 2 1/2 years in offpeak power which is still significantly less than I was expecting - but swapping to 11c/kWh for offpeak has significantly improved that figure.

      Depreciation is still a mixed bag. I don't really personally care since I don't have to deal with salary sacrificing, and I intend to keep this car for many years; I would suggest that the PHEV should keep its' value better as it's a bigger, better car (as well as being less common) so it'll be more difficult to find on the used market in years to come. the ZS EV will be worth less since the used EV market will be saturated with Teslas etc which will push the cheaper EVs right down in value.

      If you are doing under 50km in a day, and the upfront cost of a 2021 MG HS PHEV versus the MG ZS EV are about the same, then I'd definitely go for the PHEV. It's a bigger vehicle with more luxury features, and the 'bonus' of the petrol engine makes road trips easy without having to plan out chargers or swap to another car.

      • EBC on 28/03/2024 - 20:33

        Amazing, thanks so much for the details! How has the reliability been? Any issues to speak of (taken care of under warranty)? Also any indication of battery degredation at all?

        Oh and one other thing I was reading, I heard it has an odd system of switching to petrol at highways speeds. Something about the climate control being set 9 degrees different than the ambient temperature and driving at highway speeds makes it switch to petrol. Is this a thing you have noticed?

        • Switchblade88 on 28/03/2024 - 21:20
          +1

          The only maintenance/warranty issues I've had was that the steering wheel leather was peeling off where it was exposed to the sun - not entirely sure what triggered it, and nowhere else on the dash/seats etc shows any similar issues, but that was replaced free of charge. The boot latch was also slightly out of alignment so it wouldn't latch occasionally, which was also a quick/free tweak that's now perfect. Everything else has been pretty well faultless.

          Battery degradation has been surprisingly mild - given that I've put 32,000km through the battery (over 60% of my total range) I've dropped from 63km reported to 62km. Of course I'm still only getting 50ish km on a full charge, same as ever, but that's highway speeds on hills so totally expected. I really thought I'd be down 5% or more by now, but these LiFePO4 batteries are clearly better than the Li-ion 18650/21700 cells of many other EV brands.

          As for the petrol engine coming on, once you realise what is actually happening it's really easy to understand: the aircon/cooling runs on the HV battery, but heating uses the petrol engine coolant for warmth. If I have the climate control set to 23 degrees and it's 20 degrees ambient, then the petrol engine will be commanded to start and switch from EV mode to AUTO; the speed makes no difference - it'll do this even at idle or when parked. The simplest way to avoid this is to turn off the climate control completely (and use the heated seats!) or tweak the set temp down a bit if you just want some airflow.

          • EBC on 28/03/2024 - 22:11

            @Switchblade88: Amazing, thanks again for your thorough responses. Was previously leaning towards a Mazda CX-5 because of a lack of ability to install a charger (own in an apartment). But now leaning towards the MG PHEV since I do have a standard 10amp plug in my spot and it sounds like that is good enough to fill a small PHEV battery.

            I think you have answered all my questions for now but would you mind if I popped back here and asked you some more questions if I have any down the line?

            • Switchblade88 on 29/03/2024 - 12:08
              +1

              @EBC: Absolutely - I'm more than willing to help in any way I can.

              I used the 10a 'granny' charger for the first two years without any issues; it'd take about 7 hours to charge from flat to 100% which was perfect for overnight or daytime/offpeak when the kids are at school. I was using a basic analogue plugin timer to avoid peak rates, but was a bit iffy on the constant load I was putting through it - but it didn't burn out thankfully… It worked but wasn't really ideal.

              I upgraded to a slightly bigger 15a charger since I had the plug available later on, whch dropped the charge time to about 5 hours in total, but that also meant I could hook up the ESP32 for a more bespoke control system via HomeAssistant. It's a nice luxury but certainly doesn't make a big difference to the overall experience.

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