Amazon AU: The Warranty Period for a Second-Hand Laptop?

RickyMoon on 28/02/2023 - 23:27
Last edited 09/03/2023 - 23:17 by 1 other user

Last week, I bought a "like new" ThinkPad X1 Carbon from Amazon Commercial Services Pty Ltd, the official Amazon store in Australia.

After performing a Lenovo warranty check, I found out that the laptop's warranty had already expired in July 2022. I contacted Amazon customer service today, but they didn't know how long the warranty period was for this laptop on Amazon, and since the official Lenovo warranty had expired, they strongly suggested that I return the laptop.

I would like to ask everyone, since I purchased the laptop from the official Amazon store, should I be entitled to a 2-year warranty under Australian consumer protection law?

Thank you

Updated~

I just contacted Amazon customer service for the second time, and according to the representative, I don't need to worry about the Lenovo official warranty period because I purchased the laptop directly from Amazon and it will be covered by Amazon's direct warranty service. The Amazon warranty period is one year.

09/03/23

After providing the receipt to the official Lenovo website, I was able to successfully upgrade to a 3-year warranty service.🙏

Computing Lenovo ThinkPad

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Hybroid on 28/02/2023 - 23:31

+2

Australian Consumer Law mandates a guarantee, not a warranty, with no set stipulated timeframes beyond "reasonable".

Manufacturers/retailers offer a warranty. They're quite different concepts.

If you purchased brand new then your warranty should start from new once you get it. Seems like someone has returned your one previously hence the "like new" which essentially means used.

Definitely return it for a full refund.
- RickyMoon on 28/02/2023 - 23:40
  
  -2
  
  I am aware that I purchased a second-hand laptop from Amazon's official store. However, I was surprised that Amazon customer service was unable to provide a clear answer regarding the warranty period. I would like to know if I can still rely on the "guarantee" of Amazon's free warranty under consumer protection law in this situation.
  
  Thank you.
  - Hybroid on 28/02/2023 - 23:44
    
    +2
    
    Warranty and Guarantee are not the same thing.
    
    Manufacturer's warranty is nothing to do with Amazon. That's for Lenovo to advise. Which is why Amazon wouldn't know.
    
    Consumer guarantee would still apply from Amazon though. That means if you have issues with it, you go to Amazon, not Lenovo.
    - RickyMoon on 28/02/2023 - 23:52
      
      -1
      
      That's probably why Amazon customer service couldn't provide a straightforward answer to my question. Although I got this laptop at a good price and its battery health is at 97.9% and 15 charge cycles, I don't really want to return it. However, I'm worried that if this laptop has issues after one year, Amazon may not be willing to take responsibility for repairs.
      - notaccel on 01/03/2023 - 19:32
        
        +1
        
        @RickyMoon: You could try emailing the Lenovo Warranty Registration team with your copy of your Amazon invoice to see if they will update it for you?
        
        [email protected]
        
        RickyMoon on 09/03/2023 - 23:16
        
        +1
        
        @notaccel: After providing the receipt to the official Lenovo website, I was able to successfully upgrade to a 3-year warranty service.
lunchbox99 on 28/02/2023 - 23:55

+3

The fact that it already expired means it was a used product. "Like new" is in reference to it's condition, not its age.
- RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 00:01
  
  So do you think the Australian Consumer Law would require Amazon to provide warranty service within a "reasonable" time frame? The new ThinkPad X1 Carbon comes with a 3-year warranty.
  - freefall101 on 01/03/2023 - 00:16
    
    +4
    
    It's not a new X1 Carbon though. If it was made in 2019 (with the warranty up in 2022) you're going to be lucky to get 6 months.
    
    If Amazon say return it then return it. If you want a warranty, buy a new laptop.
    - RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 00:22
      
      -4
      
      This is the flagship version of X1 Carbon Gen6, which was at a good price, and I'm hesitant to return it. I will call ACCC tomorrow to inquire about warranty issues for second-hand laptops.
      - freefall101 on 01/03/2023 - 00:45
        
        +5
        
        @RickyMoon: The ACCC isn't going to do anything, you bought a 4 year old laptop. I dunno what a good price is but expecting more than 6 months warranty means you're dreaming. That's why it was a good price.
        
        RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 00:55
        
        @freefall101: I am curious about how long Amazon should continue to provide warranty service for second-hand electronic products sold through their official channels after the original manufacturer's warranty period has expired. Is it 3 months, 6 months, or 1 year? Amazon's official store sells a wide variety and quantity of second-hand electronic products, don't you wonder what responsibility they should bear for consumers?
        
        AdosHouse on 01/03/2023 - 01:49
        
        +1
        
        @RickyMoon: There is no hard and fast answer. That's why the ACL states a "reasonable" amount of time. It's a case by case basis.
        
        And no one at the ACCC will give you a time frame. I'd be surprised if you even talk to more than a receptionist.
        
        RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 01:56
        
        @AdosHouse: You are right, but I believe that even if Amazon's self-selling used products have exceeded the original warranty period, Amazon should have a warranty and/or return obligation far beyond 30 days.
        
        freefall101 on 01/03/2023 - 08:48
        
        @RickyMoon: They should provide a reasonable time.
        
        What’s reasonable will depend on item, condition, price. You keep talking about how you got it really cheap yet keep talking about a 2 or 3 year warranty, I think you need to bring your expectations back to earth first.
        
        You should check the condition now and return it now if you think it’s too risky. If the battery only lasts 20 minutes then it’s unreasonable to expect it will last more than a month. Similar if the drive health checks are poor. If Amazon has stated there’s anything specifically wrong then you’ve agreed to that.
        
        If the motherboard blows up in 3 months then I’d expect a return. But anything beyond 6 months isn’t reasonable.
        
        RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 09:00
        
        @freefall101: Firstly, it's a good thing to be able to purchase products at a cheap price on a platform that offers consumer protection. Secondly, I stated two different facts in response to different questions. The first is that a brand new ThinkPad X would come with a 3-year warranty service, and the second is that consumer protection laws should provide a 2-year guarantee. This does not mean that I expect or hope to receive 2 years of warranty. In fact, my expectation is a 1-year warranty, and even third-party professional sellers on eBay can provide at least 3-6 months of warranty. The reality is that Amazon's official customer service response is a 30-day return policy and they are unable to provide information about warranty duration.
        
        RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 09:04
        
        @freefall101: If Amazon's official response was that they can only provide a 6-month guarantee, I wouldn't mind because that's a clear answer. I don't like vague responses from Amazon as it creates a lot of uncertainty for any potential repair issues that may arise later
        
        freefall101 on 01/03/2023 - 12:19
        
        +1
        
        @RickyMoon: I thought this thread was about asking what warranty you get, if you know you just get ACL protections but prefer a fixed warranty then return the laptop and get one with the warranty you want.
        
        It’d be nice if Amazon offered a warranty, but legally they don’t have to.
        
        Chandler on 01/03/2023 - 13:32
        
        @RickyMoon: The issues not just Amazon - it's law, baby!
        
        https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic…
        
        There are no set rules for deciding whether a product is of acceptable quality, or how long a product should last for. To decide whether a product meets this expectation, consider questions like:
        
        …
        
        How old is the product, and how long do similar products normally last?
        
        Was the product sold new or second-hand?
        
        …
        
        Also another good read: https://consumer.gov.au/sites/consumer/files/inline-files/AC…
        
        A refurbished good is one that contains some second-hand parts, but has had some parts replaced, and is in good working order at the time of purchase. For example, a refurbished laptop could be a second hand laptop that has had the hard drive and battery replaced with new parts
        …
        A refurbished good that develops a fault can still fail to meet the consumer guarantee of acceptable quality even though it contains second hand parts. The fact that some parts of the good are second-hand affects, but does not determine, its reasonable durability (see Service statements and second hand goods below)
        …
        A reasonable consumer expects a second-hand good to have been used before even though there may not be a good understanding of its history of usage. This previous use means that a reasonable consumer would expect a second-hand good to last less time than the same good purchased new.
        
        RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 14:53
        
        +1
        
        @Chandler: If Amazon is unable to provide a warranty for their own second-hand refurbished products, then I need to know what assistance ACL can offer me. However, at least during my second contact with Amazon customer service, Amazon is willing to provide a one-year warranty from the date of purchase, which I am satisfied with.
        
        We are willing to spend more to buy the same refurbished products from platforms such as Amazon, Apple, and Dell outlet, rather than simply buying from third-party sellers on eBay, because these platforms can provide us with higher quality and guaranteed after-sales services. If one day these platforms weaken their after-sales support for their own refurbished products, I believe that many people's consumption habits will change as a result, and at least I will be more willing to buy new products or consider buying second-hand from eBay.
        
        However, I still hope that influential manufacturers such as Lenovo, Samsung, Sony, etc. can sell their own refurbished products, which can not only provide us with more choices but also benefit the environment and recycling efforts.
        
        Chandler on 01/03/2023 - 18:14
        
        @RickyMoon: The key difference here is used vs refurbished. There is a (valid) expectation that refurbished goods will last longer than used goods, and potentially longer than new goods that have never been refurbished.
penguincat on 01/03/2023 - 01:43

According to Amazon when I asked about warranty on the Amazon Used like new etc they mentioned that they would support it for the time listed on the page 12 months 2/3 years etc. As unlike the US we don't have a page saying used items are a flat rate XX days warranty only.

In saying that from what I understand if it breaks 12 months from now the only option could be return for a refund so no repairs/replacement.
- RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 01:44
  
  Thank you~
- Chandler on 01/03/2023 - 13:39
  
  This is the issue I have here - forget warranty/guarantee: what about repairs/spare parts?
  
  https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic…
  
  Repairs and spare parts
  
  When a consumer buys a product, the manufacturer or importer must provide spare parts and repair facilities for a reasonable time after purchase. This applies even if the consumer did not buy the goods directly from the manufacturer or importer.
  
  This guarantee does not apply if the consumer is told at the time of purchase that repair facilities and spare parts will not be available after a certain time.
  
  The laptop is allegedly a 4-year old top-of-the-line model: I would expect spare parts and/or repairs to be available for some time yet.
  
  And before anyone comes in to say it's excessive to expect a computer to last more than 4/5/X years: my off-brand (Horize/Clevo) laptop from a no-longer-existent retailer (Logical Blue One) is still working quite well, 10 years on, with zero part changes/replacements/repairs.
  
  Now excuse me while I find an exceptionally large piece of wood to touch excessively after making that statement…
foxmulder on 01/03/2023 - 07:50

How much you spent on the laptop? Like a lot suggests guarantee, as warranty expires, applies. I'm guessing this one sold by Amazon Warehouse?
- RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 08:08
  
  $640, Amazon Warehouse~
  - foxmulder on 01/03/2023 - 08:13
    
    Thanks. At that price and as Amazon warehouse tags everything they sell as used, you should be able to get at least 1 year guarantee.
  - brendanm on 01/03/2023 - 08:31
    
    +1
    
    You bought a used, $2k+ retail laptop for $600, that is a number of generations old, and were surprised that factory warranty is up?
    - RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 08:40
      
      I'm not surprised that I lost my Lenovo warranty, but I am surprised that Amazon customer service couldn't provide a clear answer regarding how much additional "warranty" Amazon can offer. Even when purchasing a used laptop from a professional seller on eBay, they can provide at least 3-6 months of warranty, while Amazon only offers a clear 30-day return period and cannot provide a clear answer on the additional warranty period
      - brendanm on 01/03/2023 - 09:06
        
        @RickyMoon:
        
        while Amazon only offers a clear 30-day return period
        
        There you go then.
        
        RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 09:10
        
        @brendanm: This is also where I hope to seek confirmation from the community - does Amazon not provide additional warranty for their own second-hand products?
      - foxmulder on 01/03/2023 - 09:08
        
        +1
        
        @RickyMoon: Amazon set their warranty here.
        
        This particular wordings: 'When you purchase a new or Certified Refurbished Device, we warrant the Device against defects in materials and workmanship under ordinary consumer use for one year from the date of original retail purchase. ' Most likely your laptop is under certified refurbished one - thus - 1 year.
        
        The bottom page also mentioned ACL guarantee - meaning if you think from the value of the item you purchased should last longer than what the warranty above said, then this applies.
        
        RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 09:11
        
        @foxmulder: Thank you ~~
JimmyF on 01/03/2023 - 09:17

+1

I would like to ask everyone, since I purchased the laptop from the official Amazon store, should I be entitled to a 2-year warranty under Australian consumer protection law?

Nope, you purchased a 'used' product, the consumer laws apply to NEW products. You warranty is whatever Amazon offered when you purchased it. As far as Lenovo is concerned, the product was 'sold' as new years ago. This was a $2k+ laptop you got from sun $700.
- RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 09:25
  
  I have seen many YouTubers sharing their experience of buying second-hand and refurbished laptops on Amazon, but I haven't seen anyone able to share information about the after-sales warranty. Currently, Amazon can only provide a 30-day return period. I have purchased refurbished machines from Delloutlet before, and Dell always clearly indicates the warranty information (1-year warranty) on the product page and packaging.
  - JimmyF on 01/03/2023 - 09:32
    
    +1
    
    Why didn't you say a youtuber hadn't told you!
    
    2nd hand and refurbished items don't come with the same standard warranty as new items, if it is a business selling it, they come with the terms offered by the seller. Amazon being 30 days, Dell being 1 year, greys online is anything from 30 days to 1 year.
    
    Private sellers of 2nd goods come with 0 days.
    
    clearly indicates the warranty information (1-year warranty) on the product page
    
    So what did Amazons page say then?
    
    Regardless if you don't like the terms, then return it within your 30 days and buy something else.
    - foxmulder on 01/03/2023 - 09:39
      
      +1
      
      Consumer guarantee applies to anything a business (not private individual) sells to consumer, it doesn't exclude used items. Source. Special exceptions such as auction, bundled, etc apply.
      
      And yes it doesn't come with standard warranty - but customer is guaranteed to be able to use the product for a reasonable of time - based on the item value.
      
      And do not confuse a return window of 30 days generally for change of mind with the warranty/guarantee.
      - JimmyF on 01/03/2023 - 10:07
        
        @foxmulder:
        
        And yes it doesn't come with standard warranty - but customer is guaranteed to be able to use the product for a reasonable of time - based on the item value.
        
        2nd hand items are in a different class, Buying a 3 year old laptop 'used' at 1/4 of its original value then expecting it to last like a brand new one is outside what most reasonable consumers would expect.
        
        Even that link you point to says
        
        How old is the product, and how long do similar products normally last?
        Was the product sold new or second-hand?
        
        So based on the fact this unit is already ~ 3 years, most consumer rights and guarantees would be near expiring even if purchased new.
    - RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 09:49
      
      @JimmmyF I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to find answers from various platforms, and YouTube can indeed provide authentic experiences from others. I've always enjoyed shopping on Amazon and have been very satisfied with the shopping experience they provide. This is also my first time purchasing a second-hand product from Amazon's official sales, and I can only say that there is a gap between my expectations and the warranty provided.
      
      When you navigate to the ThinkPad X1 page, the first thing you see is the price for a new machine. If you scroll down, you can see the prices and condition for used machines, but there is no simple warranty information displayed. You need to click and open a second-level page to see the small print stating a 30-day return policy.
      
      If consumers blindly trust Amazon's official website, it is easy for them to miss the warranty information and simply click to place an order.
JimB on 01/03/2023 - 10:30

I bought a 6 year Toyota that a secondhand dealer said was 'like new'. It's only done 30,000 and it's immaculate! The secondhand dealer gave me 2 years warranty.

Now, the car drives perfectly and the Toyota dealer said it was in perfect condition when I took it into service, but I was floored when the dealer said that the original warranty expired 1 year ago. I argued with the dealer saying I just bought it and that it should come with a 5 year warranty.

We got into a massive fight and I'm no longer welcome at any Toyota dealership in Australia. Car still drives perfectly.

Can I sue the secondhand dealer?
- RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 11:01
  
  I understand your metaphor 😂, but your case and mine are different. How was the condition of your car described when you signed the purchase agreement? (Was it a used car? What was the mileage? Was the warranty period clearly stated?) If Toyota had withdrawn from the Oceania market during the two-year warranty period, I believe it should have been the responsibility of the dealer to repair your car that was still under warranty. When I asked Amazon about the warranty period for this laptop, they were unable to provide a clear "reasonable warranty period," which means they do not know.
  
  I will give an example from a few years ago, which may not be very appropriate. A few years ago, I saw display models on clearance sale at Binglee (clearly marked as display models). When I asked the salesperson, they promised that if Acer did not provide warranty service, Binglee would provide it. At that time, I suspected that these laptops had already been registered for warranty by Acer, so theoretically Acer might not be able to provide an official two-year warranty.
Drakesy on 01/03/2023 - 11:13

+2

OP Looking for confirmation bias.

OP bought a used laptop in like new condition
The laptop is already 3 years old
The laptop has pretty much used up 90% of its consumer warranty - i'd expeect a 6 month guarantee but that's about it.
Second hand goods don't get a reset of the warranty, like new is the condition, the only issue is the buyer in this case.

Personally i wouldn't sweat it, it's a lenovo x1 carbon, it'll never break. I've had one from 2016, it's fallen off my car at 60km/h (don't ask) and barely got a scratch on it.
- RickyMoon on 01/03/2023 - 11:28
  
  If I had purchased a laptop from a third-party seller on eBay, I wouldn't be so concerned about third-party warranty coverage. However, since I bought it directly from the Amazon AU official store, I expected to receive better warranty protection, just like I would if I purchased from Dell outlet or Apple certified refurbished.
  
  I just contacted Amazon customer service for the second time, and according to the representative, I don't need to worry about the Lenovo official warranty period because I purchased the laptop directly from Amazon and it will be covered by Amazon's direct warranty service. The Amazon warranty period is one year.
Euthyphro on 02/03/2023 - 07:25

+1

Correct, second hand items from Amazon are not covered under manufacturer warranty (send back to manufacturer). They are covered under Amazon one year warranty (send back to seller).

Amazon AU: The Warranty Period for a Second-Hand Laptop?

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