Most Economical Modern Car, EV or Petrol?

samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 10:39

My reliable 2004 Mazda 2 has become too expensive to maintain and I'm planning to replace it at some point this year.

I'm basically looking for the best value car from something at least from 2018, however based on current car prices it seems like a new car could be a great option.

I've played around with the NSW total cost of ownership tool but it seems lacking in terms of car types available and the maintenance costs for electric cars seem inflated, either that or its taking the battery replacement into account?

With the MG4 electric estimated to be $40000-45000, and a Kia Rio petrol going for $25500, I'm wondering if electric could actually be the best option over a 10 year period? Especially with the QLD $3000 EV rebate and it seems that benefits for electric cars like lower registration renewal seems to be whats happening going forward.

The actual cost doesn't seem clear to me so I was hoping others would have more experience.

Automotive Car Mazda

Comments

  • pegaxs on 20/02/2023 - 10:43
    +2

    InB4: JV shows up spraying off about battery replacements in EV's and how it will be $100,000+ for a new battery at exactly 10 years or 200,000km.

    If going EV, hang about for a used Tesla Model 3. Prices on these are dropping like stones. There was a 2019 Model 3 with under 20,000km on it that was listed for $49,900 the other day. Wont be long before these will be in the high $30k bracket for a almost new, hardly used Model 3.

    And the MG4 isn't competing with Rio. It would be competing more with Toyota Corolla, Kia Cerato, Hyundai i30, etc if anything.

    • Mokr on 20/02/2023 - 10:57
      +1

      Telsa will not drop to high 30.

      Byd sell at 40k.

      • pegaxs on 20/02/2023 - 11:05
        +2

        Yeah, ok champ. The same thing was said about Model 3's going under $70k, then under $60k, and then again at $50k… It's a massive Ponzi scheme and finally all the Tesla fanbois have moved onto Model Y's and are dumping the market with used Model 3's and there are not enough new fanbois to sustain the stupid inflated prices of Tesla shit boxes any more.

        • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 11:37
          +5

          So why would I want to buy a Tesla shitbox then? ;)

          I don't feel like buying a 4 year old tesla would be a great option for various reasons.. build quality, warranty/battery life, Elon Musk and I would be worried in the future the car would be gimped by some OTA updates because its either old or second hand or maintenance prices would become out of control due to proprietary parts or something.

          • saltypete on 22/02/2023 - 08:32

            @samfisher5986: Agree. Parts prices would keep me away from a secondhand Tesla, and may keep me from what is otherwise an excellent new vehicle. When I heard that a replacement headlight assembly for a Tesla was around $3k it set alarm bells ringing.
            I think that for longer term ownership an OZ delivery of something that is popular in China offers possibilities because their market tends to offer a lot of non OE options for owners and these can often be imported.
            It seems to me that the EV drivetrains and mechanicals are simple and long lasting. This means that some parts - seats, seals, dash electronics, light assemblies etc could become important over time.

        • gyrex on 21/02/2023 - 12:42
          +1

          Hey! I own a Tesla model Y shitbox and I'm not a fanboi.

      • cloudy on 20/02/2023 - 17:00
        +1

        I had a poll earlier about Tesla prices. Most people, always say they won’t drop prices. Only a month or two on and it’s dropped a few times.

        I’d say pegaxs is probably right, it’ll continue to drop.

        • xylarr on 21/02/2023 - 12:32

          I have skin in the game with a Model 3 I bought in the first batch in Australia in 2019.

          It's been good, and the maintenance has been low. I've only replaced tires, windscreen wipers, cabin air filters. The only "service" item I have had done was a brake fluid check by Tesla. Cost me about $30 and the existing fluid was deemed ok.

          As for used prices. There has been this view that electric cars or Teslas in particular were "special" and wouldn't obey the laws of used car prices along with every other car in a similar bracket. Nope, nothing special. A four year used Tesla is going to be the same price as a four year used BMW/Merc/Audi - it will have lost at least half its value.

          • Euphemistic on 21/02/2023 - 14:01

            @xylarr: I can imagine that EVs in general will hold slightly more value than equivalent ICE unless the price of fuel drops, or we do really discover that battery degradation is an actual issue. Other than anti-EV crowds, the consensus seems to be that batteries are going to last over 10 years or 2-300,000km.

          • cloudy on 21/02/2023 - 21:07

            @xylarr: how's insurance costs?

            I've been reading EV's costs a lot more to insure

          • jrvb42 on 21/02/2023 - 21:09

            @xylarr: But if you've lost a lot in value through depreciation, you could have bought a new petrol car for way less TCO.

    • nephilim on 20/02/2023 - 10:59

      People are paying 20k for Japanese imported Leafs that have sub200km range, crazy if you think will drop that low.

      • gakko on 20/02/2023 - 11:05

        Are Leafs ok now? The first generation were duds I thought (though dont know why)

        • [Deactivated] on 20/02/2023 - 12:20
          +1

          They had no battery cooling equipment (air cooled like a beetle) and in places like ACT where it can go from minus temps to 40+ the batteries degraded very quickly, and you can barely go 20KM on a full charge

          • gakko on 20/02/2023 - 12:37

            @[Deactivated]: Lol yikes.

            • [Deactivated] on 20/02/2023 - 13:27

              @gakko: C'mon, $5K for a new battery, it's a bargain!

  • EightImmortals on 20/02/2023 - 10:49
    +3

    Is an EV practical for you? If so then that might be a good option, if not then consider a Hybrid.

    • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 10:55

      EV is easily practical for me even with today's lack of chargers, if I'm going somewhere its either within EV range or an extension cable to an outlet would do the job at whatever accommodation etc I would be at.

      I really want to stay away from Hybrids as I feel like they are the worst of both words… dealing with oil changes and petrol engines as well as batteries aging.

      • Switchblade88 on 20/02/2023 - 12:28
        +3

        As a PHEV owner I'll say that I'm getting the best of both worlds. I've not turned the petrol motor on in over 1200km - which means I'm not wearing out mechanical components, I'm saving on fuel etc - but I can still do a 800km round trip at the drop of a hat without needing a second vehicle.

        Electricity is costing me $4 per 100km, as compared to the $18 per 100km for petrol only. But since a pure EV is not really any cheaper than an equivalent PHEV, I couldn't afford to make the compromises that a pure EV requires in my situation for the same upfront cost.

        If you can survive with an EV and don't have range anxiety then that'll be the better option for you.

        • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 12:31
          +3

          I feel like if you haven't used the petrol motor in 1200km then you don't need it.

          You could just eat some lunch while you charge on your next trip, or just charge it at your destination assuming you driving your maximum range or less each day.

          • Switchblade88 on 20/02/2023 - 12:42
            +2

            @samfisher5986:

            just charge it at your destination

            Problem for me is not the daily commute, but specialist trips that are 2+ hours each way that are not a regular occurrence. There is no charging points anywhere near where I'd need to go since rural areas don't have that luxury. A secondary vehicle being petrol for these trips is an option but then you still need to deal with 2nd rego, maintenance, second carport etc.

            Other consideration is towing - I'm not aware of any EVs that can tow without paying $70+k for a Tesla, and you then also have to deal with lower range because of the extra load. Towing isn't a dealbreaker for many, but yet another compromise with an EV.

            • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 14:56

              @Switchblade88: I'm confused, you don't have electricity in your rural location?

              A hotel with a public carpark without a electric vehicle charger I understand (And is likely going to change soon) but anything else why can't you just run an extension cable to a electrical point?

              • Switchblade88 on 20/02/2023 - 15:37
                +1

                @samfisher5986:

                you don't have electricity in your rural location?

                High-current EV chargers that will charge in a reasonable timeframe? No, we don't have those.

                If you want to find an unlocked 10amp external GPO in a hospital carpark, and then wait 8+hrs for your full-size EV battery to trickle charge enough to make a 250km one-way trip home, by all means do so…

                In the meantime I'll just fill up my PHEV with petrol when I need to on these long trips

                • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 15:45

                  @Switchblade88: Fair enough, but I think the average person would be able to charge and wait 8 hours while they sleep in a normal accommodation situation.

                  I would assume hospitals will be high on the list to have electric vehicle chargers.

                  A hybrid has a huge overall cost over 10 years compared to an EV in my opinion, you can't put fuel in there and just leave it and fluids and other things get old if you use it or not, assuming you want to take care of it anyway.

                  • Switchblade88 on 20/02/2023 - 16:37
                    +1

                    @samfisher5986:

                    charge and wait 8 hours while they sleep

                    Absolutely true, and I've done this whilst staying in hotels. But for us a 500km specialist round trip is just a day trip out - we pensioners don't have the budget to stay overnight for these appointments sadly.

                    I would assume hospitals will be high on the list to have electric vehicle chargers

                    Hopefully - but they'll also be prioritised to where there are more EVs, which then dictates it'll be capital cities first, the same as most infrastructure like the NBN.

                    A hybrid has a huge overall cost over 10 years compared to an EV

                    There's not that much difference if you analyse it. Sure there's engine oil and the oil filter, but an EV still has lots of service expenditure the same e.g. brake fluid, coolant, steering and suspension, tyres. The labour involved in an oil change is only a small component of a dealer's regular service cost as well, and the minimal reduction in the amounts charged to EV customers reflects this.

                    you can't put fuel in there and just leave it and fluids and other things get old

                    True, but my example of a month without running the engine is also a record for me, and not the norm. I'll easily do 5-10,000km on petrol each year with longer trips and that amount of driving is easily equivalent to a city driver commuting each year. It's also not winter, so the petrol engine isn't running to keep the car warm (which uses engine coolant for warmth like a normal ICE car).

                    • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 17:17

                      @Switchblade88: The EV maintenance things you mentioned are something you might do every 5-15 years, completely different to ICE parts that need every 6-12 months, where you have to pay for labor as well.

                      For example part of the reason I'm replacing my car because the stock suspension is getting old, the car is 19 years old.

            • xylarr on 21/02/2023 - 12:33

              @Switchblade88: But you have to suffer lower range when towing when using an ICE vehicle too?

              • Euphemistic on 21/02/2023 - 14:06

                @xylarr: Range reductions is a little different in ICE to EV.

                ICE is really inefficient around town so it appears highway usage is more economical. Towing with ICE does use more fuel, how much depends on weight and aerodynamics.

                EV is so efficient around town that many can’t get their head around why it uses more at highway speed. On the highway is where aerodynamics really start to affect efficiency. So if you are towing something like a caravan, aerodynamics is going to affect your range a lot more at highway speeds, but a box trailer will have a lot less effect. Don’t forget that some of the extra energy used to accelerate the load will also be recovered by regen braking.

              • Switchblade88 on 21/02/2023 - 14:48
                -1

                @xylarr: In addition to Euphemistic's points, the reduced economy translates directly into more time waiting to charge.

                For a really simplified example, an ICE vehicle might have to refill 4 times between Melbourne and Sydney towing a caravan. That's 4x 5 minutes to refill at a bowser.

                An equivalent EV, assuming the same 4 stops (which is probably optimistic) means 4x 5 hour stops using a 22kW charger. This is also using the assumptions that there is enough fast chargers available, they are working, and there's no queue to use, and the battery range is accurate. That single day trip has now turned into double that, simply because of the charging time added.

                • Cliche Guevara on 21/02/2023 - 15:05
                  -1

                  @Switchblade88: "Fast" DC chargers are minimum 50kW (not 22kW) and some go as high as 350kW, although most EV's in Australia can only charge at a max in the 50kW to 170kW range. So those stops are likely only going to be around 30-40mins. Perfect length for a pee and coffee/lunch break. Petrol/diesel users also need to stop to pee and eat as well (and no one is filling their car and paying for it in 5 mins)… so it's disingenuous to say the Syd-Mel trip would be double the time. Probably adds a couple of hours at most. There are YT clips showing this exact trip and it can be comfortably done in a 'regular' day.

                  • Switchblade88 on 21/02/2023 - 16:47

                    @Cliche Guevara:

                    it's disingenuous to say the Syd-Mel trip would be double the time

                    Then let's calculate it!

                    https://electrictowcars.com/charging-while-towing-the-bigges…

                    A cursory Google indicates that efficiency is halved when towing a caravan, so a pure EV normally using 17kWh/100km then doubles to 34kWh per 100km. With a 75kWh battery e.g. a Tesla model Y LR, that means you get about 200km if you run the battery flat, and since you shouldn't do this we'll assume a stop every 150km to charge, which would average 51kWh of power used over 150km.

                    Ideally, a 50kWh charger will put 50kWh of power into your battery over the course of one hour of charging - although you'd well know the charging rate reduces as the battery voltage rises - but let's assume each stop takes an hour to charge. That's not '30-40 minutes'.

                    Excluding the initial charge when leaving Melbourne, you'd need seven charge stops to Sydney. That's seven hours of charging with a fast charger. If you don't have a fast charger available, and only a 22kW charger as per my post's assumption, then each stop balloons out to nearly 2 1/2 hours to intake that 51kWh - and that assumption is very valid when you look at the availability of working fast chargers along the route that are less than 2 hours apart (being the max battery range when towing).

                    So 10 hours of driving plus 7 hours (minimum) of charging would certainly push a single-day trip into a second day. Maybe I was lowballing it at 20 hours, but it's not just 'a couple of hours at most' as you stated - that's being disingenuous.

                    I'd love EVs to have faster charging, and more available points, but at this point in history the charging time is a significant consideration.

                    • Cliche Guevara on 21/02/2023 - 17:29

                      @Switchblade88: Ok, so you're talking specifically about towing. I wasn't. But let's be real, no one is towing a caravan with any of the EVs available today.

                      • Switchblade88 on 21/02/2023 - 18:44
                        +1

                        @Cliche Guevara:

                        Ok, so you're talking specifically about towing. I wasn't.

                        Well yeah, I said explicitly in the comment that you negged:

                        between Melbourne and Sydney towing a caravan

  • nephilim on 20/02/2023 - 10:52

    Inflation has killed budget ICE, Now people are paying 33k for a Yaris Cross Hybrid

    • Euphemistic on 20/02/2023 - 12:14
      +3

      A Yaris cross hybrid isn’t a budget car.

  • freefall101 on 20/02/2023 - 11:11
    +1

    Can you get a novated lease through work? EVs are FBT free and pre-tax, so it can make for a pretty decent saving, depending on your tax bracket.

    Also just comes down to how much you drive. The clear benefit with EVs is cost per KM is way lower. If you're looking at a Kia Rio with a mixed usage fuel rate of 6L/100km, if you only drive 5,000km a year, about 300L, it's not going to cost you much in fuel. If you're doing 20,000km it becomes a different story.

    There's also that in 10 years an ICE car is going to be near worthless. An EV might need a battery replacement, but it's going to retain some value.

    • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 11:30

      I believe i can get novated lease but I always thought it was more expensive then just cash upfront.

      I drive around 15,000km per year.

      At the end of the day this is all about whatever will cost me the least and it does seem like an EV could be good long term but I don't feel like I have enough information.

      • freefall101 on 20/02/2023 - 11:56
        +1

        It's usually more expensive but with EVs they're pre-tax and FBT free, which is huge depending on your tax bracket. Includes all the costs as well, so your insurance, maintenance, etc is all tax free.

        If you're in the 37% or 45% tax bracket, that suddenly means a $10k novated lease payments becomes $6,300 or $5,500 a year. Then at the end you just pay the balloon payment and keep the car (after 5 years it's about 28%).

        Ask someone in payroll/finance at work who they use for novated leases and get a quote from them. They'll tell you exactly what it costs and it least gives you something to compare to.

        • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 12:12

          Thanks for the information, I will find out!

      • hothed on 20/02/2023 - 12:05

        There are FBT exemptions for PHEV and EV vehicles. In addition to that, each state has various subsidies as cashback for buying EV.

        The way the FBT exemption works is that the lease is paid BEFORE you pay tax.

        Eg. If you are on salary 120-180k, you tax would be 37c per dollar for each dollar earnt above 120k.
        Then if you dropped into the next bracket, each dollar spent on the novated lease would be a saving of 32.5c/dollar.

        This is a substantial reduction vs paying with after tax dollars.

        However, there are additional costs with novated leases. Eg vehicle loan.

        I've always purchased 2nd hand vehicles outright but am considering buying a new EV given the tax deductions.

      • nedski on 20/02/2023 - 12:13
        +2

        I got my BYD Atto 3 through a Novated Lease and was going to pay cash for it. For me it works out cheaper because even with the balloon payment in 5 years, it roughly comes out the same price if I had paid cash now. However that meant I got rego, insurance tyres cleaning etc for 5 years free.

        • hothed on 20/02/2023 - 12:49
          +1

          Would you mind sharing the break down of costs for the novated lease on an Atto 3. I'm pretty keen on buying one. Just wanted to check the numbers.

          Thanks!

        • Drakesy on 20/02/2023 - 13:23
          +1

          Hmm
          i did the same analysis through my novated lease provider and it worked out to be cheaper in the long run if I bought with cash.
          Sounded like they hadn't updated it with the nullified costs of fuelling it (with electricity) or they just jacked up their finance rate to outweigh any pre-tax benefits.

          • nedski on 20/02/2023 - 14:16
            +1

            @Drakesy: My quote came to $260 out of pocket per fortnight.

            $260 x 26 fortnights = $6760
            $6760 x 5 years = $33,800
            Balloon payment if I want to keep the car = $13,731
            Total = $47,531

            Some factors to consider here. I am in the ACT so the first two years had free registration. (Still have to by CTP).

            Also because it was financed through Pepper, I got a year of free charging (up to 2000kwh). We only use that on long trips so thats been good.

            • ashtdp on 21/02/2023 - 21:15

              @nedski: May I ask for which car and tax bracket are these stats for?

          • xylarr on 21/02/2023 - 12:36

            @Drakesy: This is the thing. The FBT subsidy thing is just a subsidy to the novated lease providers. They're a bunch of bottom feeding scum suckers. With some providers, it's almost impossible to get an interest rate out of them so you can do the maths yourself. "Oh but you make a massive tax saving!!!" - ugh - so I'll pay that saving to your profit. No thanks.

            • Drakesy on 21/02/2023 - 12:37

              @xylarr: Bingo, it's pretty much a legal way to funnel money out of the tax system under the guise that it's an employee benefit.

              • nedski on 21/02/2023 - 23:10

                @Drakesy: I totally agree that novated leasing is an unnecessary tax dodge. However if its available, why not make the most of it. I have got my car essentially interest free for 5 years.

    • Mokr on 20/02/2023 - 16:47

      There's also that in 10 years an ICE car is going to be near worthless.

      Actually a lot of evs will be worthless. As the tech evolved rapidly

      Also alot of the batteries can't get replaced depending on type.

      Ice cars will still hold value as they become rarer and people are still used to them.

      • freefall101 on 20/02/2023 - 17:07
        +1

        I'd love to hear more about these EVs with non-replaceable batteries, got any examples? How do you think car manufacturers warranty their cars, if the battery goes they just chuck the entire car?

        And as the tech evolves there'll be a cottage industry for fitting newer, lighter cheaper batteries to old EVs. All it needs to do is supply electricity at the correct voltage and it'll be cheaper to stick a new battery in an old car than buy a new car.

        The idea that a 2023 Kia Rio will be a rarity to hold onto is a bit of a laugh though. Supply will outstrip demand by a country mile, it might make sense to buy a car that'll be a classic because you won't be able to get a new petrol Porsche or Ferrari in a few years, but daily bangers will be a dime a dozen for the next few decades.

        • Euphemistic on 21/02/2023 - 08:13
          +1

          And as the tech evolves there'll be a cottage industry for fitting newer, lighter cheaper batteries to old EVs

          There already is a cottage industry for this. Rebuilding Nissan leaf and mits imiev batteries and increasing range. There is also an industry fitting EV drivetrains to ICE cars.

  • brendanm on 20/02/2023 - 11:44

    My reliable 2004 Mazda 2 has become too expensive to maintain

    Not sure how this is possible.

    • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 12:10

      Things like suspension, T-Bar etc are simply wearing out due to age. About $3500 total if I get everything done but the issue that its not going to be the end of things to come and its way too much money to put into such an old car, and a manual car as well!

      • brendanm on 20/02/2023 - 12:47
        +1

        What's a t bar?

        • Nugs on 20/02/2023 - 12:59
          +2

          tow bar? from pulling bogged Landcruiser's out
          .

        • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 14:22

          I might have the name a little off, but its the thing that keeps the car structurally together, without it the car internals sway, which is what is happening with my car. Its not too bad right now but its getting worse.

      • Nugs on 20/02/2023 - 12:59

        "and a manual car as well!"
        probably the best feature
        .

        • xylarr on 21/02/2023 - 12:38

          Apparently more EVs were sold recently in Australia than cars with manual transmissions.

      • Geoff01 on 21/02/2023 - 11:13
        +1

        Reality is if you say spent $5 getting everything fixed, that's good running for another 5-10 years. Sure it's not a fancy car and might only be worth $5k. But buying a car in the 30-40k range can easily drop 10 to 20 percent meaning your loss is the same if not greater.bplus no big outlay initially. More money for holidays and travel or what ever takes your fancy. Can't always look at $ on a cheap car being not worth it as an expensive car loses more easily plus insurance and maintenance.

        • samfisher5986 on 21/02/2023 - 11:17

          I doubt spending 5k on my car would mean another 10 years without issues but even if it did, it seems like a poor investment.

          Its more about what newer car will give me the best value.

          • Geoff01 on 21/02/2023 - 11:42

            @samfisher5986: Being you own the car already your only outlay is $5k. Buying a new ev means outlaying $40k to achieve the same a to b goals. Which in reality is very poor investment. It will also depreciate much faster meaning even more loss. New cars are possibly the worst investment you can make in life. And based on the concerns of economy,insurance and all other costs then repairing yours is streets ahead. You will probably still get 4-5k for it years down the track. People forget about the massive losses on newer cars.

  • Seraphin7 on 20/02/2023 - 11:47
    +1

    As usual, a lot of this turns on use case, not to mention a lot of assumptions on depreciation, servicing, maintenance, etc.

    There will be use cases where all of ICEs (in all forms), hybrids, PHEVs, and pure EVs can each come out in front.

  • Repposh on 20/02/2023 - 11:54

    Depreciation/finance is usually the biggest cost of car ownership unless you drive a lot (in which case it could be petrol). How much do you drive?

    Having said that, since COVID new cars seem to hold their value pretty well, especially EVs. Add in fixed price maintenance, peace of mind from manufacturer's warranty, new cars can definitely come out on top.

    • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 12:12

      I drive around 15,000km per year.

      • Repposh on 20/02/2023 - 12:46

        15,000/100*6.5=975L

        975L @ $1.8 = $1755

        Cost to charge 60kWh battery (approx 250km) = $15 in Qld
        https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/how-much-does-it-cost-to-…

        15,000/250*15=$900 assuming you don't have solar panels or access to free charging points

        So you'd be saving approx $855 in fuel compared to the Mazda 2

        Then compare depreciation, financing, maintenance, registration and insurance costs between the cars you want to buy

        Add value of intrinsic reward from driving new/electric car

        • hothed on 20/02/2023 - 13:26

          You would save a bit more, as your estimated range from 60kwh is too low. The most popular EVs in Australia at the moment are Model 3 and Atto 3, which use around 15kwh/100kms. I think Model Y is 3rd most popular, which is 17.5kwh/100km. I've provided a list of consumption figures for other EVs below.

          60kwh divided by 15kwh per 100km = 400kms
          Using your figures, 15000km per year / 400km * $15 = $562 per year in electricity.
          This represents a saving of $1,193 per year. ($1755 petrol cost minus $562 electricity cost)

          Kona EV: 14kwh/100km
          Atto 3: 14.5kwh/100km
          Model 3: 14.6kwh/100km
          Kia Niro: 15.9kwh/100km
          MG ZS EV: 17kwh/100km
          Polestar 2: 17kwh/100km
          Model Y: 17.5kwh/10km
          Ioniq 5: 19kwh/100km
          Leaf: 18kwh/100km
          Volvo XC40 recharge: 18.7kwh/100km

          • Repposh on 20/02/2023 - 14:38

            @hothed: You're right. I might have been looking at an article which quoted distance in miles instead of km. My bad.

            In that case 15,000/400*15=$562 so saving is indeed $1,193 pa (more if you can find free public chargers)

            If EV depreciation/financing/maintenance/registration/insurance is less than $1,193 more compared to ICE then EV works out cheaper

  • Euphemistic on 20/02/2023 - 12:17
    +2

    Most economical? Probably something in the $5-10k range, then save for an EV in a few years time.

    TBH, if you spend the money on your Mazda, it’ll be less than depreciation of a new car and will keep running for a few more years until there are more EV options around.

    Of course if you just want something shiny and new…. Go for it.

    • boomramada on 20/02/2023 - 12:26

      Pretty much this, the gap between MG4 and Kia Rio is still a bit, eventually, this will close down unless you are eager to buy a new vehicle, based on your info, EV would suit you.

    • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 12:27

      I'm not sure if waiting a few years for an EV would really change much?

      I need to replace my car either way so its basically what to replace it with. With today's prices 10k seems like the absolute minimum and I think the depreciation and potential costs to maintain it would outweigh waiting 1-2 years. Basically the problem is I don't know the true condition of a cheap car I buy that could tide me over and covid has blown prices out so much it doesn't seem worth the risk.

      • Euphemistic on 20/02/2023 - 12:30
        +2

        In a few years there should be a lot more EV models available and charge infrastructure will be much improved.

        If your car needs $3500 spent on it, it’s still cheaper than buying a $10k car. If the engine is good and you replace the suspension stuff it’ll be fine for a few years.

        I do get it however, you just made an excuse to want to change.

        • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 12:32

          Its more I don't want to drive a manual car anymore, especially with traffic in Brisbane getting worse.

          I'm still not seeing cars becoming much cheaper then a $40000-45000 MG. I'm sure there will be more options but EV prices move so slowly it never seems to be worth it.

          • boomramada on 20/02/2023 - 12:44

            @samfisher5986: $40K MG will come as closer to $20K else EV's wouldn't be sustainable. So far there are only a handful of people making them and manufacturers still filling the backlog of post covid demand.

            • Euphemistic on 20/02/2023 - 13:50

              @boomramada: More like manufacturers are stiff no Australia sending all their stock to other countries where there are govt incentives promoting EVs.

          • Euphemistic on 21/02/2023 - 08:14

            @samfisher5986:

            Its more I don't want to drive a manual car anymore, especially with traffic in Brisbane getting worse.

            Ah ha! It’s not the cost, it’s the manual. Could have said that upfront, as it takes repairs out of the equation. Repairs that might make financial sense in a purely economical decision.

            • samfisher5986 on 21/02/2023 - 09:36

              @Euphemistic: Happy to repair it if it was economical but as I said $3500 with other things that could potentially go wrong in the future… I don't think its worth it.

          • xylarr on 21/02/2023 - 12:41
            +2

            @samfisher5986: My mum (77) got her first auto just last year. She wonders why she put it off so long.

  • netjock on 20/02/2023 - 12:52

    If you think about it. Buy another 10 year old Mazda 2 at a reasonable price and it will go for another 10 years.

    2013 Mazda 2 is like $10k on Carsales. Over 10 years would cost $10k a year. If you buy a $60k EV and drive it for 20 years it would cost you $3k a year. Think carefully.

    • Nugs on 20/02/2023 - 13:04

      $1500 per year is my target of purchase price. so yeah, not buying an EV anytime soon
      .

    • Switchblade88 on 20/02/2023 - 15:44

      If you buy a $60k EV and drive it for 20 years it would cost you $3k a year

      You're forgetting fuel costs. From my own exact measurements petrol is 4.5x more expensive over the same driving distance.

      $4 per 100km in electricity translates to $18/100km in petrol, so if you do 20,000km a year you have basically saved your 3 grand in fuel costs, that will cover the capital cost of your EV.

      • netjock on 20/02/2023 - 16:10

        Lets not forget the $50k difference when invested in ASX200 ETF would get you $1,400 in dividends (2.8%). Including capital growth you're talking 7% ($3,500) and it compounds.

        • Switchblade88 on 20/02/2023 - 16:21
          +1

          Shares may deliver you profits, but they will not deliver you to your destination

          • netjock on 20/02/2023 - 16:23
            +1

            @Switchblade88: I think your math is wrong there.

            $60k for a Tesla
            $10k for a 10 year old Mazda 2

            Difference is $50k.

            Shares will deliver you to a meaningful future and put food on the table. Expensive cars with high depreciation won't.

            • Switchblade88 on 20/02/2023 - 16:49

              @netjock:

              Shares will deliver you to a meaningful future and put food on the table

              Not if you're relying on compounding to justify your 7% growth… and it is misleading at best to assume constant growth in shares.

              …it would cost you $3k a year

              This was your figure that I was working from, and I proved that fuel costs would cover this.

              You're also forgetting the root problem the OP is facing of rising maintenance costs, so that $10k Mazda could easily become $20k after replacing critical parts:

              Things like suspension, T-Bar etc are simply wearing out due to age

              Nobody thinks going without a vehicle is a good opportunity cost to pay to gamble with shares.

              • netjock on 20/02/2023 - 19:18
                -1

                @Switchblade88:

                You're also forgetting the root problem the OP is facing of rising maintenance costs, so that $10k Mazda could easily become $20k

                I think you fail to observe. OP has 2004 Mazda 2 with rising maintenance costs. Recommendation was to buy a $10k 2013/4 Mazda 2 which will give them 10 years per OP's experience before costs go up.

                I think you just invent numbers. You don't happen to the author of that Tesla 3 is better than a Camry spreadsheet are you?

                Not if you're relying on compounding to justify your 7% growth

                I think you've just taken my bait. 7% is conservative. Download this poster, put it up on your wall and refer to it every time before you talk about finances because you obviously don't know that much

                • samfisher5986 on 20/02/2023 - 21:19
                  +1

                  @netjock: There is no 10k Mazda 2013 though.

                  A 2011 Mazda 2 is $10,500 with 79,400 km.

                  Assuming its a carefully cared for car, I still don't think I would get 10 years out of it before things start to get expensive. If I get bad luck and it has some major issues, I'm down a lot more money then that.

                  Its also not anymore fuel efficient then my 2004 Mazda.

                  To me that 2011 Mazda 2 is a rip off.

                  • netjock on 21/02/2023 - 09:29
                    -1

                    @samfisher5986: 2013 Mazda 2 for $9500

                    Stop pulling numbers out of your magic money tree.

                    • samfisher5986 on 21/02/2023 - 09:30
                      +1

                      @netjock: Thats a manual car, in 2023 that might as well be a handcar.

                      Whats worse is trying to resell a manual car.. might as well take it to the wreckers in 10 years.

                      • netjock on 21/02/2023 - 14:05

                        @samfisher5986:

                        might as well take it to the wreckers in 10 years.

                        That is the point. Also why the cost is $1k per year to run it into the ground.

                        You obviously don't pay attention much.

                        Only reason you want a 2013/14 car is OP has experience of how many years to get out of it because it basically going to the wreckers.

                        I'd suggest you print out that poster and put it on your walk and do the math on the left hand side where there is space so you can understand the math.

                        On yeah I live you sense of humor giving me one neg vote and giving yourself one up vote.

  • saltypete on 21/02/2023 - 08:00
    +1

    Another thing to consider is the safety and driving experience of an older vs new car.
    Test drive a couple of EVs and think about how your commute will be in one.
    I tried the Atto, MG and Tesla a few weeks ago. I’d buy a new Tesla tomorrow if we had room for it at home…..

    • hothed on 21/02/2023 - 13:59

      Can you share your thoughts on all 3?

      • saltypete on 22/02/2023 - 08:18
        +1

        Atto 3 first. Drove very well, took it up the freeway and it has heaps of power on tap and was settled at 100 km. A very acceptable car, although not sure if the interior design is a long term thing of interest.
        MG next. Good around town and plenty of power up hills. Interior subdued and OK. Unsettled at highway speed - probably tyres but it tends to track changes in pavement then lurch into line. Also wind and road noise. Fine as a town car, but wouldn’t be keen to go far or fast in it.
        Tesla M3. Didn’t get a chance to take it above 80km. Best vehicle by a long margin, although I’d want to hear road noise at highway speed first. Extremely smooth, comfortable and all of us really liked the simple dash and tablet arrangement. Main dislike is the full roof of glass but the vehicle tech may sort that out.
        When we are serious I’ll try some others, but driving a few EVs seals the deal on never buying an ICE town car again.

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