I'm thinking of jumping on the solar band wagon but not sure if we should.
We live in a single storey house in Melbourne.
No air conditioner, only 1 small TV, all LED lights hence below average electricity use. Our electricity bills are around $70/month.
Gas cooktop, gas hot water heater. Gas heater but hasn't been used for a few years. Gas bill around $70/month.
Is there any point getting solar panels given our low energy usage?
Which panels/inverters did you get? Just wondering what would be reliable
I have the cheap tiers panels & inverters:
- Sungrow + Suntech Panels on the first system
- Sungrow Hybrid inverter + Trina panels + LG Chem battery on the 2nd system
@Jono05: I got it through Origin Virtual PowerPlant program so it was quite heavily subsidied. I was one of the first batch so i had free upgrade to the 10kwh after they messed up the battery supplier.
Initially it was $8.7k with 5.3kw solar + 10kwh LG chem + Sungrow SH5k-30 inverter but there were some minor upgrades so it ended up $9.1k.
Another good thing with that is i have 20c feed in tariff from origin for 2 years (it is 14c now i think).
lol, certainly not for any payback within your lifetime…
You're potentially right. I just ran the figures through a spreadsheet and the payback period ranges from 9 years (with FIT @10c) to 175 years (with FIT @6c) to never (with FIT below 6).
the value equation I worked out for daytime lighting of our strata common area stairwells and basement garage
was a deal where $5K solar system would save about $2.5Kpa and payback in about 2 years
but if you don't have heavy usage during the peak sunlight hours of the day like a retired stay-at-home or invalid using an air-con, and with an electric peak storage HWS and showering at night like East Asian custom, then ima guess NO.
$2500 on lighting per year sounds like a lot
I can't believe there are so many solar naysayers here in OzBargain!
Get solar mate… get as big a system as will fit on the roof.
Ditch gas cooking and gas hot water as soon as you can. You pay $750pa JUST FOR THE CONNECTION TO YOUR HOUSE. Go look at your bills if you don't believe me.
There's $7k savings in 10 years, and you haven't even factored in how much you'll save on actual gas prices vs induction cooking.
I switched everything over about 6 years ago, and I'm very thankful I did…. has paid itself back and then some since!
Gas is for chumps, solar is definitely the way to go (and I don't give a crap how many negs I'll get from old fuddy duddies who can't see the forest from the trees). I know I've saved thousands. OP… don't let any of these people talk you out of it. AS BIG A SYSTEM AS YOU CAN FIT, trust me!
I am sure you will get negs, I have solar and it is great. However, Do the math, don't blindly buy into solar. He is an extremely low power use with relatively short term outlook on how long he may stay. At best he "may" break even, though likely he will lose money by buying it and converting stove/hot water over. If he is paying $750 a year for connection he is doing something critically wrong as most providers are more than half that rate. if at that rate the smart choice is to switch gas providers, should be no more than 200-300 a year.
Thanks to everyone pointing out I'm paying too much I've just switched retailers and daily supply for electricity is now $115.76 (also used CR to get $70 cashback).
Switching everything from gas to electricity is costly. Hotwater around 2k, induction another 2k. Aircon.. maybe another 5k. That is 10k upfront at least. I want to cut my gas off so bad but no point of dumping perfectly working gas appliances to landfill.
Yep, in the same boat. Our gas hot water and cooktop are fairly new. I'll replace with electric when it breaks down
No 10kw and over the energy providers can turn your fit off in Qld anyway
Also over 10kw rates are lower on many plans
Old "fuddy duddies" who have more life experience than you with plenty of accumulated wisdom provided you with the peaceful, productive environment that you have the privilege to live in.
They also built and funded the infrastructure that "chicken littles"(the sky is falling) like yourself want to duplicate with the extra electricity distribution networks to link up with the panels and windmills, whilst neglecting the original infrastructure.
GET YOUR HAND OUT OF MY POCKET.
https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/chris-kenny/australias-en…
hahahaha… so many incorrect assumptions AND you're quoting Sky News as a news source?!? Dude, please stop… you're making my eyes water with laughing so much!!
An opinion piece from Sky News to boot. Not even actual news. And the opinion of someone with a BA in journalism that has had jobs basically exclusively in strategic communications and media.
Why should his opinion on energy policy hold any weight?
I take it, then, that you don't watch "Outsiders Weather and the Sceptics Ice Age Watch" on Outsiders on Sunday?
https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/outsiders
You would learn a great deal.
You would learn a great deal.
"What is a phrase never said about watching any 'Outsiders' opinion pieces on Sky"
Would be the answer to that Jeopardy question
@SBOB: I am wondering what your specific concern(s) would be about the content of Sky News.
You are probably not aware that it tries to "balance" the political outlook of the commentators that are interviewed.
A specific example would be where former federal Labor Senator Stephen Conroy is interviewed at the same time as former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger.
There are many other examples where a Labor or Greens(less likely to accept an offer to appear) office holder is included in a panel discussion with an appropriate "opposite" conservative commentator or office holder.
They are given equal opportunity to put forward their views.
Nicholas Reece, Deputy Mayor of Melbourne, is another very regular participant on panel discussions.
Former Labor Senator Kimberley Kitching (R.I.P.) was another regular participant with useful insights on many and varied topics.
Similar examples abound.
You will not see that on the "ALPBC"(ABC 2).
Furthermore, you will not see a reference to "Outsiders" on Jeopardy…..it is an American quiz show.
I would have hoped that you knew that, but I have my doubts.
As I suggested earlier, you would benefit from watching content such as Sky News/Outsiders.
It would broaden your horizons, and make you more "worldly wise".
You will not see that on the "ALPBC"(ABC 2)
So your thoughts are that abc's opinion or editorial coverage is so heavily left leaning bias, but in your view sky news opinion and editorial shows are "fair and balanced", and their hosts and guests provide an even view from both sides.
Thanks for the laugh.
Furthermore, you will not see a reference to "Outsiders" on Jeopardy…..it is an American quiz show.
I would have hoped that you knew that, but I have my doubts.
Woosh
Sky news? Sky news has never had a ‘balanced’ report in its life.No wonder you have ‘warped’ views!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
You would probably even say that their weather reports are unbalanced.
"You can lead a horse to water….."
No hope for you.
P.S. I am just wondering what you majored in at university?
Trust me!!!!!!!
I was making about $300 every 1/4 on my 5k system.
Now lucky to get $50 back
I'm guessing that's the difference between 60c FIT and 10c FIT
No, 20c to 10c
Plus increase costs
Was yes when AGL Fit were 21c. Now the Fit is a joke
Agree about AGL. Now I only get 10c for first 14kWh, then 5c after that. Sadly, this is still better than some companies where FIT is 3.8c 😅
Regardless, FIT isn’t the only reason to get solar. Solar can still make sense for people that have high usage during the day. Maybe not OP bc he has very low usage and also on gas.
Plans with higher Fit generally have higher rates as well.
So you bill goes up a lot, and down a little due to Fit.
So having solar is better tahn nothing, but it will take some time (more than 10 years) before you will see returns on your investment.
Yea for sure, they may also have a higher daily connection fee. So really have to do the calculations to ensure it's cheaper to get a plan with the higher FIT.
WA FIT is 2c off peak and 10c peak (3pm - sunset)
which is next to nothing.
We had solar installed last year. I looked at the financials but also took the view that solar electricity is better than burning coal to produce electricity as much as practical.
Looking to get a battery in the next 12 - 18 months once i see what my generation and usage is over the first year or so is.
Its great on days like today where it is 30+ degrees and not a cloud in the sky and working from home with the A/C on and producing more than we are using. Our last bill was also about 1/4 of the price 12 months earlier.
Waste of money. Wait 4 more years.
No, the regulator has allowed power companies to make them pointless.
The feed in tariffs have reduced while power companies charge you way more.
The tariff has no chance because its the daily supply charge is what they keep jacking up along with the per kwh.
I had solar in my old property and it barely broke even with the state incentives of paying for half the system and free loan on the rest, its certainly wouldn't come close now.
Should be great if you can move everything to electric, so you don't pay for the supply fee for the gas.
You’re better off paying by the hour and using everyone elses solar free or at a profit…. provided you can turn off when prices are high around 7pm.
We used to be with power club paying wholesale prices which was brilliant. Unfortunately they went broke. Definitely need to move to a cheaper retailer
I'd get an aircon put in before putting solar on
Not worth it given your very low energy bill as it is, and the low feed in rates offered everywhere. Keep up the great low energy usage! :)
Thanks!
The most important question is how often is anyone at home from 9am to 5pm daily and using electricity during that period. That will give you the most bang for your buck.
Also take your export limit off your inverter :)
Just Mr Fridge lol
Then 100% solar panels are not worth it for you.
Is this a repost from 2008?
Wish I'd jumped on the bandwagon back in 2008. Then I could be here saying my system paid for itself many times over already like everyone else 😂
If you looking to rent or sell you making it attractive for the next person. With inflation, the electricity prices will go up and you may be able to get the ROI sooner rather than the 9-year figures above
How much are you paying for gas supply and unit charges?
70/month no gas heating seems really high
Supply is around a dollar a day. We use a lot of gas for hot water and cooking I guess
I got a 6.66kw system in dec 2020 for $2150 in Melb. My usage is same as yours and to date made around $2500 in FITs.
Although, one thing to bear in mind, I was on 15c per kw FIT for 2 years before getting to 7.2c
If you plan on staying 5-10 years and can grab on max FIT, and get a system for $4k or so your system could pay for itself in 4 to 5 years.
That's a great price and payed off just with FiT in 2 years is amazing.
I paid about $6.5k for my 10kW system in Qld in 2021 and have only earned about $1.2k from FiT.
But making some assumptions about our self-consumption saving I still estimate it will pay for itself in just over 3-4 years from install.
that price was probably almost half subsidized by the vic government rebate
The biggest impact, I've had, is the company and support from the industry for the actual installation. With many installers not having a real idea of the hardware or support needed to correctly set them up.
Our builder is close to handing over our new house and we are keen to get solar. We don't have natural gas so everything is electric and the stove is induction. I don't even know where to get started with solar or what current government incentives are in place. Can anyone point me in the right director or make any recommendations on solar companies?
Solarquotes (google them).
Ex-CSIRO engineer who's gone out and started a decent company that educates you and refers installers to quote you.
I learned most of what I know from that webite, and his regular updates keep you full bottle as new tech comes out.
Reasons for not getting solar:
For us:
We're line ball (have aircon, but double brick so insulation is good, especially downstairs) but would do it for the environment.
Sectional roof means need Enphase system or optimizers.which adds to cost and payback period.
More established areas have these; we're in HC area so can't optimally locate panels (can't be seen from the front). Some of the most affluent areas have the lowest take up of solar not because the residents aren't environmentally conscious, but because of unfortunate handicaps.
I'm the same as you for points 1 and 2. It's very hard to decide if I want to fork out $12k for a 6.6kw system when our bills are about $350 a quarter only. Our point '3' is lots of shade and panels on a garage/alfresco which won't get a lot of sun… so what to do?!
so what to do?!
Nothing. In the future, panels (or roofs) will be smaller and more efficient and then it will be our time.
Hopefully smaller, cheaper and more efficient ☺️
It is possible to save money with Solar in Melbourne even if you are not a high energy using household.
My friend’s Mum just got her 3 Month Electricity Bill from Origin- and her bill is just $20 this summer bill.
She does not use much electricity at all but has Gas Hot Water. She never uses her Gas stove— uses an induction portable cooktop on top of steel tray on top of gas stove - she switched off oven at meter box- using it once a week. She uses air fryer, an instant pot and rice cooker instead of her gas stove.
Her bill was $160 all up, including supply charges for 3 months. She has a split system air conditioner but never uses it.
Her Solar Feed in Credit was $140.
All she has to pay is $20 for past 3 months of electricity- even with faulty seals on very old fridge and very old chest freezer which sits outside in the sun.
So Solar is not just for High Energy Using Households- ???????
I helped pay for her solar installation via subsidies.
This is unjust.
I do not want to pay for "the Green Revolution".
Do you object to the same subsidies and tax concessions offered to other power sources also?
Government rebates on solar pale in comparison to the subsidies, tax offsets, fuel levy discounts etc that are offered to coal or gas, so i assume you believe they are also unjust and object to helping pay for those also?
These subsidies were/are paid for industrial development of the nation.
They were not paid because "the sky is falling".
It is not.
There is a big philosophical and practical difference.
Duplicating power generation/distribution networks is a waste of money that would be more productive spent elsewhere.
There is a big philosophical and practical difference.
Come back to me when you work out the per kWh $ subsidy difference between what a person installing solar on their roof top gets, compared to other power generation sources. I'll even let you do it on MWh if the maths is easier.
Or don't and just keep watching editorial pieces on sky news to help form the basis of your opinions.
@SBOB: Please publish these "subsidies" for traditional power generation.
I have forever been paying "market price" for my electricity/petrol/gas consumption.
I am not a burden on fellow taxpayers - unlike renewables users.
Just one example is Malcom Turnbull's "brilliant" idea of "Snowy 2.0".
What imbecile believes that pumping water "uphill" over and over again is a good idea?
It defies physics for a start, and the initial billions of dollars budgeted is experiencing a seemingly never ending cost "blow out".
The above is just one example of renewables subsidies.
Another is the recently introduced $3,000 per car EV rebate for new vehicles in NSW.
When I sold cars for a living, every sale transaction resulted in a positive contribution to the Revenue, at either Federal or State level, the extent of which depended on if the car was new or used(I sold both at different times), and what tax regieme was in place(prior to or post GST introduction in 2001).
What imbecile believes that pumping water "uphill" over and over again is a good idea?
It defies physics for a start.
Pumped hydro is actually, if designed and implemented on a well defined budget (so that likely rules out any plans by the au gov), an incredibly efficient sustainable energy source.
Pump up the hill using easily obtained excess wind or solar, effectively storing it in a battery known as gravity. Even countries like the US and your favourite China utilise it. It's just that, thanks to I assume the belief by politicians that voters with scientific understanding such as yours, are voters worth placating, we are somewhat stuck in the dark ages when it comes to our electricity security.
It's ok if the science confuses you, but considering you managed to transition from writing on stone tablets to now using the internet, perhaps one day you'll also accept there's more to power generation than just digging stuff up and burning it ;)
@SBOB: Even in your wildest fantasies, you cannot overcome the fundamentals of physics.
Once a body of water has fallen from a higher place to a lower place, the only way to get it back to a higher place is to expend energy.
Simples.
Once a body of water has fallen from a higher place to a lower place, the only way to get it back to a higher place is to expend energy.
So you're fine with expending energy to say, dig up coal or drill down into a gas well…but somehow pumped hydro blows your mind?
Once a fossil fuel has been covered by earth, the only way to get at it is to expend energy
You're a sky news editors wet dream.
@SBOB: The energy produced by one kilogram of water falling even from a large height is MUCH LESS THAN the energy released by efficiently burning a kilogram of coal.
That is fundamental science which cannot be overcome by your fantasies.
Furthermore, "greenies" are dead set against more dams.
Look at the opposition just in Australia to dams just for water supply and non-pumped hydro purposes.
Even though it makes perfect sense, the NSW state government is still unable to guarantee the expansion of the Sydney water supply/future flood proofing by raising Warragamba dam.
Stupidity.
Stupidity
Thanks for clearing summarising the strange tangents your arguments go on to make some kind of point, completely unrelated to whatever previous point you were trying to make.
Makes it easier for everyone to get the gist.
@SBOB: You would have difficulty knowing what day it was, let alone understanding some scientific basics.
then you should have spoken up years ago.
I only recently found this forum.
Here are more reasons not to buy products from China:
"This innocent-looking building that you see behind me has an unauthorized secret police station linked to the Chinese Communist Party," said Gallagher. "The nonprofit Safeguard Defenders discovered over 100 of these illegal police stations around the world, including at least two more on United States soil."
Gallagher was joined by Rep. Ritchie Torres, D-N.Y., and Rep. Neal Dunn, R-Fla. in an effort to shine a light on the threat the CCP poses to the United States and the need for the Biden administration to act "aggressively" to defend U.S. sovereignty.
SHUT THEM DOWN: MORE CHINESE SECRET POLICE STATIONS REPORTEDLY FOUND, PROMPTING CALL FOR CONSULATE CLOSURES"
[…..]
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gop-congressman-warns-of-ch…
Note: both sides of the "fence" Democrat and Republican are mentioned in the above quote.
I.e Bipartisan.
More significant reasons to have as little as possible to do with an aggressive China:
[…..]
"Last year, an Australian P-8 Poseidon surveillance aircraft was forced to dodge a Chinese fighter that had dumped a load of metal foil in its path.
Now Canberra’s set to up the tempo of its South China Sea patrols to help the Philippines stand against Beijing’s escalating aggression.
The list of incidents continues to grow.
A Chinese Coast Guard vessel flashed a military-grade laser at a Philippine patrol vessel during a confrontation earlier at Scarborough Shoal this month. Several sailors reportedly suffered temporary blindness. Beijing insists it didn’t happen.
But its fishing militia and coast guard continues to swarm sandbanks and reefs within the Philippines’ UN-defined exclusive economic zone. And they’re attempting to force out all other occupants.
Now Manila is appealing for help.
Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos Jr. laments that the tense territorial situation “keeps you up at night, keeps you up in the day, keeps you up most of the time. … It’s very dynamic. It’s constantly in flux, so you have to pay attention to it.”
[…..]
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/haras…
What maintenance? Those guys probably got scammed. I probably have the worst setup with my initial arrays, laid flat on flat roof, meaning no self cleaning. First year i cleaned the panels every now and then, but now i can't be bother, performance degraded a bit but the first system already paid itself off after 2 years ($2250 after federal and vic rebate). The 2nd system with 10kwh battery & 5.4kw panels costs $9100 will take a while to pay off but should not be longer than 5 6 years
EDIT: I believe Origin allow customer to cash solar credit. Which means, the solar panels pay dividends lol