Apologies on behalf of the journalist for a poorly written article, but apparently some councils in NSW no longer issue physical parking tickets, but instead mail the 'ticket' after the event.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/nsw-councils-invisible-parking…
They also use automated number plate recognition to identify overstayers.
Bit of a storm in a teacup from my view, but I'm sure others on here will have a range of views?
Good call.
I wonder why this journalist that it was worthy to pen this article now?
I thought 'journalists' were replaced by GPTchat a couple of years back?
That would perhaps explain the "quality" of the article.
They've just been copy pasting reddit threads for many many years so there's probably a recent thread on this.
12 months of extensive research…
Aware of the system in use at Canterbury/bankstown, Hornsby, Liverpool and terrigal since mid last year, maybe earlier.
Perhaps the "journalist" just received a ticket?
where do they mail it to/Just received a ticket?
Auspost @ your service 🙏
12 months routed via Tasmania
what !!?? does bankstown council do this ?
I saw it being used somewhere before covid was triggering people. Not sure if it was in NSW or Vic though.
Which is the "it" you saw in use?
I don't understand the COVID reference.
There was a trial of the drive by registration recognition that made news in Sutherland around that time.
Fairfield City Council does this. Got fined for parking in my driveway as I was blocking the path for two minutes. (There is no footpath and the ranger was being a dick as he was yelling at me as he drove past my house and I yelled at him back because it’s some random man yelling at me while I’m in my own property …)
So did you capitulate to their extortion demand?
Sadly, yes. I think it was like $250+ from memory.
Yawn
Maybe there's been too many confrontations with the vehicle owners?
That is one of the reasons for the use of plate recognition, apparently. Plus the efficiency as opposed to walking along a footpath.
How do they manage people with disability cards put in the window if they are using automated plate recognition?
I (obviously) have no idea.
I imagine that if you were the holder of such a card, you could ask the relevant council how they manage parking in spaces nominated for disability card holders only.
@GG57: it’s not only parking spots but if u have a disability permit then you are allowed to park in a spot all day if it’s a time of more then 30 min parking
but instead mail the 'ticket' after the event
where do they mail it to?
I imagine they mail it to the registered address of the vehicle owner; same as they do for speeding fines etc.
I imagine they mail it to the registered address of the vehicle owner
What if you don't have an address?
Vehicle owners are required to provide an address for registration; same for a drivers license. That is where to 'ticket' would be sent.
Vehicle owners are required to provide an address for registration
What if you don't have one?
@jv: Valid question of course, and one of the many challenges faced by homeless people across our so-called developed country.
Thankfully there are many institutions that provide support services for people in need. I think I recall that one service is the provision of an address so that mail can be directed to that address for the person, facilitating mobile phone accounts, drivers licence, car registration, government services, etc.
If you are in need of those support services, I can provide some links.
I recall that one service is the provision of an address so that mail can be directed to that address
which is pointless, as they'll never receive it.
Also, what if someone was renting, registered their car, and can no longer afford to rent and are now homeless, but still have a registered car.
They will not receive the ticket.
@jv: The point of the support service providing an address is for the person to receive mail at that address. They visit there on a regular basis, receive support services, collect their mail, etc. It isn't a difficult scenario to imagine.
I don't know what point you are trying to make that is specific to this post.
You seem to be raising valid scenarios about some of the difficulties associated with being homeless. But that isn't what this post is about.
@jv: It is up to the registered owner to manage the communiction access (i.e. a postal address), not the RTA, regardless of whether you are homeless or have sold your house and are traveling around Australia. Might not be fair, but it is what it is.
It is up to the registered owner to manage the communiction access (i.e. a postal address), not the RTA
What if there is no postal address ?
@jv: The RTA (in NSW anyway) requires one.
My folks sold their house and travelled australia, when renewing the license they wouldn't accept no address, so ended up putting mine until they settled again.
Again, it is what it is.
But that isn't what this post is about.
The point is not everyone will receive the mail, whereas if they put the ticket on the car, pretty much everyone will.
@jv: Did you read the article?
…the new process reduces the risk of enforcement officers being abused, and tickets being lost or damaged due to poor weather.
Either way, it would appear that some vehicle owners will not receive the tickets.
@jv: It is not, apparently, a new process for parking infringements. Other comments suggest this has been the case for ~12 months.
It is the same process similarly already in use for speed camera fines, red light fines, mobile phone use in vehicle fines, fines for lack of seatbelt, toll road infringements, etc.
@jv: Your concern seems to be focussed on the delivery of the parking infringement notice to the vehicle owner. I've outlined how that delivery method is no different to the delivery method for other types of infringement notices for vehicle owners.
Your concern seems to be focussed on the delivery of the parking infringement notice to the vehicle owner.
Isn't that the thread topic ?
@jv: Yes it is, but the concern raised in the article is not that the vehicle owner will not receive the infringement notice, but that it will be after the fact and may hinder some owners trying to find some lame excuse to dispute it.
No-one mentions a concern that the owner may be homeless and not receive the notice.
Even if the notice is affixed to the vehicle, and the driver doesn't respond to that notice, this same method of mailing to the vehicle owner's address is used for the reminder notice. Has anyone raised any concerns about that process?
I don't think there is any problem with the process, the technology, the methods used, etc. It is a voluntary council tax that drivers can avoid.
…the new process reduces the risk of enforcement officers being abused, and tickets being lost or damaged due to poor weather.
These are the excuses being made.
Poor old brown bomber getting "abused" … poor dear.
Lost or damaged? There's already a process for that if the thing isn't paid in the stipulated time frame.
Let's get fair dinkum, it's nothing more than councils wanting to increase their take.
@GG57: That's all this is about. All sorts of smothers will be offered for the reasons, but it's just about getting more cash into council coffers (usually to just p!ss up the wall on rubbish or overpriced vanity projects).
@Seraphin7: I agreed with your comment. I have a similar view of local councils and their service delivery.
@GG57: Yeah, it is, but when you look at the way in which it's being enforced, you do wonder about where the "reasonable line" is.
For example, our local council has just opened a new underground car park in the local shopping precinct.
You drive in and it's all about two hours' free and then after that you pay according to a typical schedule.
But is it based on a ticket at the gate or number plate recognition? Of course not.
It's find a parking meter inside the car park, get a ticket (even if you are only planning on staying with the free period), and make sure you're back within your prepaid time (including if you've nominated the free period only) otherwise the roaming inspectors will stiff you.
Extend this to a fixed camera situation, and you can imagine people stopping in a one hour space (or perhaps paying for an hour in what otherwise allows for up to two hours), overstaying by 10 minutes and getting "immediately" stitched up by the camera.
Although with the general social acquiescence to ensuring there is a rule, enforcement, and penalty to cover seemingly every conceivable scenario of human behaviour and interaction, perhaps this is exactly what the populace wants?
MBE ~$350 per year private mailbox with mail forwarding service, they also receive parcels. Assuming here if you can afford a car you can afford this. Or standard PO Box for x$.
Wouldn't they use your rego plate to find where you live?
Some people live in their cars.
So what kind of low-life would issue a fine to someone who has to live in their car?
They also use automated number plate recognition to identify overstayers.
This is what it is being set up for. Cameras that may be either fixed or attached to vehicles will record how long someone has parked and immediately issue tickets once an infringement is detected … no more taking a chance on staying the extra 20 minutes in an hour's spot.
It's been happening in VIC for some Councils for some time now.
One of the main reasons for it was to avoid confrontation or a punch-up.
My local does this and I LOVE it.
They ranger will often come down to the school and catch all the parkhole mums and dads parking to close to the crossing, across driveways, in bus zones, etc etc and she will get anywhere from 15 to 20 people parking like arseholes in the morning.
It’s just simply not enough time to input all the details, print out a ticket, walk over and put it on the windscreen or give it to the driver. If they had to do print outs, a lot of the parents would have driven off before the ticket was printed or they would miss ticketing others while waiting for tickets to print.
And then the FB Group blows up!
If it’s a random drive past with OCR how do they know you haven’t moved the car, left and come back later to the same or similar spot?
They don't need to, moving the car within the same parking (brain not working right now) area(?) counts as a continuous parking period.
“Length of road”
NSW road rules state "A driver must not park continuously". Returning to the same spot is permitted.
205 Parking for longer than indicated
(1) A driver must not park continuously on a length of road, or in an area, to which a permissive parking sign applies for longer than the period indicated by information on or with the sign(2) For subrule (1), a driver parks continuously on a length of road, or in an area, to which a permissive parking sign applies, from the time when the driver parks on the length of road, or in the area, until the driver, or another driver, moves the vehicle off the length of road, or out of the area, to which the permissive parking sign applies.
a lap around the block will generally reset the timer.
Many council car parks say in the conditions that the time limit is for any 24 hr period, so if you leave and come back, you time doesn’t restart - it continues on.
insert modern problems require modern solutions meme
Take your numberplates with you when you go shopping!
That would prob give 2x the parking fine.
Could be 10x the fine, but the address for the " " plate isn't my address or name…
A vehicle without plates, and overstaying or illegally parked, may be assumed to be abandoned, and towed away.
My local council use sensor tech to identify if a vehicle is there or not, then start the clock.
Unfortunately, these sensors need to have a specific period of no vehicle before they reset (not sure of the exact time, but possibly 30-60 seconds). So in peak times, when someone goes in right after someone else leaves, they don’t hit that duration and therefore don’t reset and people get fined.
Interesting; how is this known? Do people challenge the fines?
Local shop owners watch it happen every day. They see someone who has been there for the limit (say 1P) leave, new people pull in and then the parking inspector put the ticket on within 10 mins of them arriving.
Shop owners even tried to argue with the inspectors to vouch that the people have only just arrived, but the inspectors trust the tech over the word of the people.
I think some people have tried to contest the fines but not sure how it’s gone.
Should be put on the time of the infringement that way you can double check what you have done wrong.
Many years ago visiting Melbourne got parking ticket I was able to check immediately in my case. I was going by one sign pointing to where i was parked there was a actually a sign and post missing in-between my car and the sign i saw i found the missing sign thrown just over the fence of the nearest house and there was no sign at all at the other end of street.
How the person doing the tickets didn't notice this or they were just going by where they normally patrol is beyond me. If i had got the ticket in the mail at a later date am i going to drive 3 hours to check the scene plus three hours drive home plus they could have fixed the signs since giving me the ticket.
The council knew about as it was reported by the little old lady that owned the house where the sign had been dumped a week previously i contacted the council let them know the situation though it still took about 3 weeks to confirm i wouldnt have to pay the ticket.
I understand, but I also assume that the number of cases where a parking infringement is rescinded would be low. If the parking ticket had not been noticed by you at the time, or had been removed, or had been impacted by weather, you wouldn't have had that opportunity anyway.
If the parking ticket had not been noticed by you at the time, or had been removed, or had been impacted by weather, you wouldn't have had that opportunity anyway.
Sure but we should be looking for ways to fix that issue, instead of making sure nobody gets the opportunity.
A txt notification or something would be the modern approach.
Isn't a mail follow-up the solution? It already exists.
I don't have a problem with enhancing that with a text notification, but that would be additional data to be managed by the state road authority and shared with the local council.
Isn't a mail follow-up the solution?
Read the comment you replied to though.
He gave an example where he was fined unfairly, and was only able to prove his innocence because he knew immediately to go and gather the evidence.
Everyone should have that opportunity.
@trapper: Full circle:
…I also assume that the number of cases where a parking infringement is rescinded would be low. If the parking ticket had not been noticed by you at the time, or had been removed, or had been impacted by weather, you wouldn't have had that opportunity anyway…
@GG57: So you have correctly identified that some people are already being unfairly impacted by a missing ticket.
The solution isn't to ensure that everyone is unfairly impacted by a missing ticket.
Timed parking helps businesses in the area who rely on customers being able to park short term & shop/collect.
This is not good imho.
People should have a right to know that they have been fined where possible, so they can prepare their defense if they believe it was issued in error.
Getting a random fine in the mail two weeks later will be hard to defend even if you were innocent.
Late breaking news…been in place for at least 12 months in some areas.