My kid had traumatic experience with the school teacher. He yells and screams at the kids.
I have reported to the school, and as expected, they have not taken any action. What else can I do? My kid is scared and is very anxious about this whole thing. What legal options do I have? What escalation mechanism I have to stop this abusive teacher from hurting other kids?
Were children conscripted in Australia to fight in the Vietnam war?
Not undermining the experience of Vietnam vets. but trauma can come from different sources.
That's about the worst 'back in my day' analogy I've ever seen…
Congrats
Hardly. It's pathetic what people claim gives them "PTSD" these days, completely takes away from people with actual trauma who need help.
As the OP hasnt mentioned the kids age, its also 'pathetic' how people jump to conclusions these days
If its someone sitting in year 10 the 'issue' would be different than say a kid sitting in year 1.
Have you read ops posts?
have you read tsunamisurfers posts
Its not just school parents that live up to various cliches these days either :)
@SBOB: Yes, as I imagine if you've spent any time at the school, you would see how parents are these days.
Yes, as I imagine if you've spent any time at the school, you would see how parents are these days.
Yep, some are just batsh*t crazy…
Though some also jump to conclusions about or talk/gossip about others parenting styles as if they are some kind of all knowing parent…
I find it best to be in neither of those camps
@SBOB: Read ops posts, and see which camp you think they belong in. They wanted to take an Airbnb host to court because the host said they broke something.
@brendanm: No argument , but I didn't respond to the op did I :)
I commented on the stupidity of the 'shouts at clouds' level comment that insinuated that 'back in my day' the word trauma was only used by those impacted by war.
@SBOB: Fair enough, but "back in the day" the word trauma was only used for people that have suffered trauma, physical or emotional abuse, sexual abuse, motor vehicle accidents etc. Now it's used for anything that has slightly inconvenienced or offended someone.
@brendanm: People use jargons all the time in a way that doesn't fit the criteria though. People say I feel depressed, I have OCD, etc.
That said, I personally think defining trauma narrowly is worse, since what is perceived traumatic to someone is different.
More specifically, what leads to symptoms of PTSD is different. Majority of people who go through events that are in line with more rigorous definition of trauma, do not develop clinical level of PTSD symptoms.
Symptoms of PTSD is very close to other mental health disorders, so if you narrow the definition of trauma to what you are doing (which is the approach that APA has taken), it creates this basket of people who cannot be diagnosed with PTSD regardless of what their symptoms are. I personally have an axe to grind about APA's definition, but I digress.
"Exposure to actual or threatened death, serious injury, or sexual violence", bullying in many cases technically would not be considered as a traumatic event for example, and it leads to symptoms that are commonly associated with PTSD. Many of the physical and emotional abuses would not fall under those criterion as well.
People say I feel depressed, I have OCD, etc.
They shouldn't though, depression and OCD are actual issues, just because you like to set the volume on even numbers doesn't mean you have OCD. It's insulting to people whose lives are impacted heavily by these things, and also "cheapens" the terms.
@brendanm: I'd agree that it would be very nice to have those terms used correctly, but it won't be.
People use terms wrongly all the time, and that's just the nature of the beast. Maybe in future when mental health issues become less taboo and more talked, this will go away. I don't normally confront people about it, unless I feel like there were underlying malicious intents.
I will normally ask what made them say those terms, and move on. Maybe do a bit of psychoeducation or maybe I will guide them to see someone.
That said, I think dictating what people should and shouldn't say is going too far.
In terms of trauma, as I said, the definition is so terribly defined. I personally think dictacting what is and isn't trauma is not up to me, but whoever is seeing the person. I feel like that goes with a lot of mental health stuff, since everyone experiences everything differently.
There has been cases where defining trauma wrongly caused issues, a lot of UAV pilots experienced PTSD symptoms. It took a while before those started to get recognised as PTSD because people used to believe that UAV pilots wouldn't get traumatised as they were not on the battlefield in person.
PTSD, ADD, ROGD, Autism, all disorders that are massively overdiagnosed. They have become scams to line the pockets of psychologists, psychiatrists, pediatricians and big pharma. For instance, 1 in 11 school age boys is on the NDIS for "autism". The technical term for this is "disease mongering".
@RefusdClassification: NDIS funds people with disability to support their independence. Autism can have impacts on someone's independence significantly and it is normally identified at young age, so I would not be too surprised if that stat is correct. That said, you need more than just the diagnosis to get NDIS funding from my understanding. You need to prove that whatever you have significantly impacts you, at least from my understanding.
I will comment that PTSD wouldn't be a disorder that's overdiagnosed, especially in kids. People might say they have been traumatised, because of how the media portrays trauma. It doesn't help that many of the symptoms of PTSD overlaps with other mental health issues. That doesn't mean PTSD is a diagnosis that can be easily given out by clinicians.
I thought (could be wrong) that trauma is subjective and varies from individual to individual. You can perceive something to be 'minor' but it can still shape behaviours of a child and have long-lasting effects into adulthood.
According to OP's Viet Cong analogy, it can also seem like 'nothing' compared to the good old Unit 731 days.
2023 trauma - No real prospects of owning an affordable home, having secure and viable employment whilst megacorps still stuff our environment and churches still get away with everything - all by the very people old enough to have gone to Vietnam.
What's your experience with war, besides video games?
He yells and screams at the kids.
Is this unprovoked yelling and screaming or an attempt to regain some authority in the classroom?
Are the other students complaining as well or just a few more sensitive students?
Does your child use these word directly or did they just agree to questions?
Parent: Does the teacher yell and scream at you?
Child: Yes
Yes, it seems to be a common pattern with this teacher.
Confirmation bias?
common pattern
Common symptom, but what’s the cause? Yelling ain’t a cause.
Some teachers are strict and but so are people that’s are not teachers, they may “yell” to gain control.
Yelling when unprovoked and kids behaving well is a problem.
If you can ACTUALLY tell us the situation of the class when the teacher yells, that may give us a better of idea cause and effect.
Otherwise, you sound upset because you are not getting your way, and others here seems to be evaluating you that way.
Yet another hysterical post with OP going MIA as you do immediately after seeking advice about your allegedly traumatised child
Post and ghost is becoming more prevalent
Along with the roasted units
Na.. I am still here. Let me wake up first in the morning
How could you sleep? Your kid is suffering!
oh Somebody please think of the children!
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/531509
What happened in the end op?
You ask a lot and yet you never really provide any solutions. From your past posts, I suspect it's not the teacher being the problem…
Careful, OP may take legal action against your comment.
How old is your kid?
Very different if it is a six year old or sixteen year old.
prob 26
This is fast becoming a laughing stock. You could at least say it's primary or secondary. Or stage 1,2,3?
Primary
I don't think so.
Are parents soft nowadays?
No.. Practical.. When it happens to your kid, you would understand what one goes through
No…You're telling me that the teacher yelled and scream for no reason? At least tell us the whole story
Maybe they just raised their voice a tiny bit, who knows.
Well, if that's the case, why are parents so soft when they were raised by a generation who were raised "hard"?
changes in law, social acceptance and peer pressure
Some teachers yell a lot as their way of managing class and it can be confronting to a kid who isn't used to it. Honestly, if I had a class of 26 kids to manage I'd yell a lot too.
Request a meeting with the principal, teacher and guidance counsellor. Come up with a plan together with them to solve this issue. It could be as simple as the teacher having a chat with you and your child to communicate issues and come up with a resolution that works for everyone such as the teacher being more mindful of the amount of yelling they are doing, moving your child towards the back of the class or away from the kids who are causing issues so they don't feel like it's directed at them etc.
I also like someone else's suggestion to talk to other parents. We had a terrible teacher once who had multiple formal complaints put in about her, which we wished we'd known at the time as it would have modified our response to her on a few matters.
I shared some more details in one of the comments.. it is not yelling.. specifically targets certain kids. Parents are aware, and many kids have gone through this. But no one seem to complain to the school. There is some sort of fear
.. specifically targets certain kids.
Without being there, how would you know that the teacher is particularly targeting certain kids? Is yours and those other kids the usual troublemakers? (I wouldn't be expecting you to say "yes, my kid is a troublemaker!)
This happened in my son's school but with an older female teacher. She would pick on the kids she didn't like. My kids were fortunately never in her class but I heard tales of screaming, swearing and name calling.
Only one child was changed out of her classroom. The parents requested a meeting with the principal and very kindly asked she be moved and went through all the allegations and why it was necessary for their child to be moved out of the class. If that fails you may need to take it further to the education department (if a public school). I would make this clear to the principal that this was your next step. The next year she was made librarian..she was very old and had no idea how to use a computer. All the kids were terrified of her but they were unable to sack her for some reason.
Edit. Also be very sure that your child isn't lying before you go above the school. Kids do weird things sometimes.
Jees it's only week 1…
"what escalation mechanism I have to stop this abusive teacher from hurting other kids?"
Walk in, slap the teacher in front of the kids and tell everyone you are the new teacher in town.
You can barely solve your own issues, quit trying to solve everyone else's issues.
Perhaps talk to other parents and see what their children are experiencing and their perspectives are.
Teacher yelling instructions at the class probably isn’t the best teaching practice but I’m not sure if I’d call this ‘abuse’, and probably just indicates they are not coping well. Teacher yelling insults, name calling, shaming etc would be more along the abuse line.
Either way if it making your child anxious you need to do what you need to do to look after them. Consider changing schools or asking for a room change within the school. If this isn’t an option, look at building their resilience to cope with this adversity eg explain that the teacher has difficulty with themself and it’s not your child’s fault (unless your kid is a major rat bag), how to identify their own emotions and strategies to manage them - child psychologist can help with this. Also make your complaint more formal and see if anything can be done to change this teachers practice.
In terms of protecting other children, that’s not really your job unless this teaching is severely out of line in which case you’d have to be a whistle blower to the department of education.
In terms of protecting other children, that’s not really your job
It's everyone's job.
It’s everyone’s job not to hurt kids. But if OP has already made a complaint and other parents haven’t for their own children, it’s kind of up to those parents whether they want to address it or not. If the teacher was beating them or a paedo for sure, but this sounds a little more subjective as to the extent of the harm.
How old or what grade is the child in?
Yelling at a child vs yelling at a teen is different
Can OP elaborate on what 'yell' is for them or their kid? Did the student do something wrong or unsafe and was being yelled at to avoid injury? Or were they being yelled at simply because….. X… Y… Z…
There are many reasons why yelling would be okay. The context for the yeling has not been in anyway confirmed by OP, and I suspect they are simply reacting to an upset child rather than understand the situation.
Primary kid. I have shared a bit more detail in one of the comments.
tell your kid to bring in the bikies
Trikies at that age.
OP, have you considered you're being played by your kid?
Make sure you wear the velvet gloves if you decide to approach this with your child.
Little Tarquin would never exaggerate a problem to get a day off school! Heaven forfend!
"But dad… he didn't say 'please' when he asked me to answer a question! And he said that i really should try to answer the question. He was such a meanie!"
You didn't mention age/grade of your child, but I am assuming that he's still a junior, as secondary school kids learn quickly to deal with all sorts of teachers. Is this, perhaps, the first time your son/daughter has had a male teacher? In the last decade or so, I have been staggered by how many parents have come to me and said, "You're the first male teacher he's ever had," and they are talking about a boy already in Grade Six! Male teachers seem to be deserting the profession en masse, and if this is your child's first run-in with one, it is understandable that he/she might find it a bit scary, and interpret the stronger voice as threatening. If so, don't overreact…. it's only the first week, and you're already talking about legal action! Why not talk to the poor man first, not with hostility, but just to let him know that your child is finding a male teacher a little daunting. Keep it friendly for a while… if he's experienced he will understand, with the scarcity of male teachers in the profession nowadays; and if he's not experienced, well, maybe it's his first week, too, and things will settle down of their own accord by Week Three!
parents have come to me and said, "You're the first male teacher he's ever had,"
You could always reply "Excuse me! Are you assuming my gender???" 😆
Yes, primary.
Male teachers seem to be deserting the profession en masse
Most males are scared to work around kids these days, so I can see why they are deserting when we have crazy rules like a male can't sit next to a unaccompanied minor on a plane, but totally ok for a lady to sit next to them. There is an instant level of bias built into the world around males/kids.
But I do agree, male teachers are great and we need more of them. Our kid had one in primary school and he was amazing and the kid really enjoyed that year.
Male teachers seem to be deserting the profession en masse
Jeez, I wonder why?
While any teacher who has to be routinely shouting is not doing well in classroom management, perhaps consider your own expectations?
School has only been back for a handful of days, but in that time you have identified an issue, made a complaint, decided that no action was taken, and are now contemplating legal action.
This isn’t reasonable.
While it may be possible that you have uncovered an abusive teacher others don’t know about, expecting them to (what? Be sacked? Removed from teaching your child?) have action taken against them in a day or two is not how the education system works.
Consider also, if your child is very young, they may have been doing something irresponsible or dangerous in an unfamiliar environment - the kind of situation where an adult raising their voice for urgent attention is warranted.
So can I suggest you take a more measured approach, perhaps with a meeting or follow up meeting with the principal to understand what action they have taken, or intend to take, and what time frame that will happen in.
Does your child's school have a school psychologist? I would at least try to link your child to a psychologist. They would at least be able to talk through the anxiety and the fear your child is reporting. If they believe there are more actions to be taken, they'd manage that accordingly.
Regardless, I feel like it'd be good to link your child with a psychologist, if the child is that distressed about the situation.
There are four sides to this story:
- Child's version.
- Teacher's version.
- OP's OzBargain version.
- The truth.
Of course.. your version now
Lol true. In all seriousness though I hope all ends well for you and your child. First thing I would suggest is seeing if your child's classmates have experienced the same thing and that they can backup your child's claims. Then approach the school with these concerns.
There are four sides to this story:
Yep, anyone who has raised a kid knows the 3 sides to any event…… OP hasn't learnt this lesson yet.
Fun story. When my son was in grade 7, his teacher was an old, crazy woman that the Dept just kept moving from school to school. A boy in his class played footy the day before the class went on a camp to an island and sustained a concussion. He still wanted to go to the camp, as all kids do, so didn’t mention the headache he had. Cue the next day. The class is on the island and by dinner time, this kid’s head swelled and he had to be airlifted off the island. When the class was back at the school, Crazy made the concussed boy stand in front of the class and apologise to them for making them late for their dinner! My son had an awful time with her too but schools will never move your kid to another class or it would be chaos with most parents wanting a change. He’s an adult now and fine. It’s character building to not be able to sort out every issue for them. Plus he’s got a great story for crazy teacher time.
"He yells and screams at the kids" Loads of witnesses and corroboration then.
Yes.. but somehow there is a fear in parents. I spoke with some of them. They are well aware but not complaining. I went ahead and have put it in writing to the principal. He interviewed us but has not done anything since 6 months. I send follow up email, he says he is looking into it.
6 months?
Wouldnt the student end up with a new teacher each year?
Plot twist - OP's child is home schooled.
Public or private school?
but has not done anything since 6 months
6 months? So this is a last years issue then…… Surely your kid got a new teacher this year, my kid never had the same teacher twice in primary school.
Yes, a new teacher this year, but the old one just comes in occasionally and starts yelling! ;)
So it happened a while ago and your kid still interacts with him even though he's not your kid's teacher anymore?
Is your primary goal to try to prevent it happening to other kids?
Aware as in…"oh, yeah, that's pretty tough, I'm sure he's not just singling 'your' kid out for being a troublemaker" because they don't want to deal with telling you your kid is disruptive?
If what you said is true, using your own logic of… Parents needing to stand up for their kids…surely you'd understand they wouldn't feel any different were it truly an issue.
Maybe just ask teacher if there's anything you can do to improve your child's behaviour
but has not done anything since 6 months I send follow up email,
i think you should go back to school and take up engrish
The Devil you know is better then the devil you dont
Lets assume you change schools and you get a worse teacher, what happens then?
What happens when your son goes into the workforce and has a manager that is loud but not breaking any rules?
Also I have several teachers in my Family and some students are angels at home and devils at school
Many cases of my son / daughter is perfect at home and tables and chairs flying in the classroom due to that same angel student
Other cases of being respectful at home and disrespecting everyone and everything at school
Don't you dare think for a second that your son is innocent without you being physically in the class watching (without your son knowing your presence)
In fact, In one example a supportive mother offered to sit in her sons class, the principal and teacher, documented this child behavior prior to this for a week
Then the mum sat in the class and the boys behavior was totally different, The four, principal, teacher and Mum and Son had a meeting after the week and agreed that a communication channel between teacher and parents would be opened up, and that if the boy played up his mum would sit in the class for another week and would be grounded at home.
What do you think happened?
Boys behavior improved
Boys started taking school seriously
Grades improved
Was doing more housework
Good examples. I understand where you are coming from. We have seen many teachers and tough teachers as well. We totally understand when there is a red line. This teacher is not only infamous in the school but ensures that kids confidence is beater up. Rumour from parents that teacher is eccentric and he used to throw things at kids it seems. He has improved now. So, now you know where I am coming from.. Beating kids up, throwing things at kids is not something that I encourage in the system.
So you're telling us that this teacher used to beat kids up and is still a teacher. You have allowed this teacher, who no longer beats kids up, access to your child for the last six months?
There's a large part missing from your story. Please sit down and rewrite what has happened so we can actually help you. State what has happened and keep it in order, then state what you think is going on. Facts then opinion.
The rewrite should take you at least half an hour.
Rumour from parents
Appears to be a lot of that in this post.
This reads like the movie 'The Hunt' with Mads Mikkelsen.
We had a substitute teacher like that when I was in primary school. It wasn't until parents witnessed her demeaning a student, which might have been me, during reading groups that something was done. I'd say it's hard to deal with without some proof (parent witnesses).
Secret audio taping and leak to media. Problem solved.
One of my kids class had a child supposedly was having problems with the teacher.
Turns out the child was actually a little shit who bullied the other kids parents thought their child was a angel even after their 9 year old daughter assaulted my son and another boy.
They moved her to another school guess what the teachers there are also supposedly the problem.
Im not a fan of the education system but theres usually 2 sides to every story. The teacher may be the problem i would be having conversations with other parents and a good discussion with the school.
Turns out the child was actually a little shit who bullied the other kids parents
I think/hope there's an issue in this sentence with punctuation.
First, I would gather more information from various/all possible sources without making any judgement or getting upset due to less information/one-sided/speculation. Often, I have saved myself from being emotional and overreacting to something because I asked the other party nicely for their side of the story.
Now I know why all my Asian colleagues are tough mofos. The training since young must have been intense.
My wife and I were having this conversation last weekend.
We were at the airport and observing the general differences between Asian and white kids.
The white kids were jumping around, crawling all over the terminal floor and mostly being unruly.
And the Asian kids just sat in their chairs and didn't really do anything to draw attention to themselves.
This comes with years of discipline training.
If you let your infant crawl around on a busy, dirty terminal floor for an extended period of time, I assume there is something wrong with you as a parent.
You can bet dollars to donuts that the teachers/principal knows screaming at kids in a rage is totally unacceptable and will absolutely deny it ever happened. If there was nothing wrong with it, if the average parent believed there was nothing wrong with it, if it wasn't against the law, then they wouldn't lie about never having done it in the first place. They would admit it and say the kid deserved the rage.
Except they know it's wrong, you know it's wrong, we all know it's wrong. If there were cameras with audio in every inch of the school that the public could access then they would 100% stop doing it, because they know it's wrong, that it's shameful behaviour. If parents were in the room they wouldn't do it, because they know it's child abuse.