As I start to fall into this rabbit hole, I once thought freshly ground coffee was always better than pre-ground coffee, only then to learn grinders are just as much if not more important than espresso machines. So now I'm wondering whether to go back to buying ground coffee (till the day I somehow convince myself to spend hundreds of dollars on a glorified pepper grinder).
At What Price Point Do Coffee Grinders Surpass Industrially Ground Coffee?
wisdomtooth on 06/12/2022 - 15:43
Last edited 06/12/2022 - 16:23 by 1 other user
Last edited 06/12/2022 - 16:23 by 1 other user
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I have the older version of this, given it second hand.
I don't have anything to compare to it apart from a Timemore C2 hand grinder, but I'm using it with my BDB and the coffees are great.
Even if you don't go through beans that quickly, whole beans store better than pre-ground cofffee.
Also, a proper burr based coffee grinder is far better than the cheapie blade based ones.
Oh.
You mean, you're using this to chop herbs right? Surely you're not using this on coffee beans?!?
😅
@wisdomtooth: If you like coffee, I'd consider upgrading. El cheapo blade grinders will just chop up your beans unevenly. Water follows the path of last resistance, so your shots will probably "channel" through the puck and give you an uneven extraction (tastes worse).
For the best results with the lowest spend, have a look at good quality hand grinders.
I once thought freshly ground coffee was always better than pre-ground coffee, only then to learn grinders are just as much if not more important than espresso machines.
This is both true and false - freshly ground coffee is better than pre-grounded because they store better. Coffee becomes bitter when it oxidises - grinding the coffee increases the surface area and also puts much more of the coffee in direct contact with air, which is why pre-ground coffee will taste worse than freshly ground and won't retain the flavour over time.
That being said, grinders are much more important than espresso machines because all an espresso machine does is push water through at high pressure. Drinking quality coffee does not have to be expensive. Get beans that you enjoy, a decent enough grinder (doesn't have to be an expensive one, law of diminishing returns), and enjoy your coffee. You don't even need an espresso machine - they just make things quicker. I've been enjoying filter / drip coffee well before I could afford an espresso machine.
all an espresso machine does is push water through at high pressure
Should've gotten the Dedica for a third of what I spent on the Breville then.
Store bought pre-ground coffee is typically not ground fine enough for espresso. So grinding yourself on a budget machine would still be better, even leaving aside the freshness. What grinder do you have today and why are you convinced it's no good?
yeah ok, that's a sad piece of machinery. I'd say you're probably still better off grinding fresh, but maybe it's worth doing a side-by-side test to see what you prefer?
To answer your original question though: a < $100 Sunbeam grinder will beat pre-ground coffee by miles.
that's a sad piece of machinery.
Did you bother to read the reviews ???
@jv: Lol…
price 9/10
quality 9/10
functionality 9/10over all 8.5/10
and
The best coffee grinder for over 30 yrs now, nothing compares
The reviewers seem rather happy with it, although it can cause a case of the munchies. Some even claimed to use it for grinding coffee.
I suspect freshness trumps grind quality…though I guess if the grind is very bad, that may not be true. The factory ground coffee might have been produced weeks (or months) before being purchased off the shelf…that can't be good.
I believe the grind quality is all about consistency. If you go down this rabbit hole, you'll discover that - for an even extraction - you really want a fairly consistent particle size. If your grinder loads up the basket with a heap of fines no matter what grind size you're after, then it might have a bad effect on the resulting flavour of your shot. The fines will be over extracted, and the coarser particles under extracted.
I was hand grinding with a conical grinder until recently, then started using a small flat burr grinder. There is certainly a difference in pour and flavour.
Heaps of stuff about this on the web, but I liked this article as a summary https://newgroundmag.com/2022/05/particle-size-distribution-…
Some people have even plotted the particle distribution for various grinders.
I think this is a bit of an evolving science. This is fourth wave for you!
If you use a pressurised portafilter then freshness doesn't matter as much.
Hehe…well…I guess we see that approach in the cheaper machines. They seem to know what sort of coffee people are going to put through them.
My old Sunbeam used to do this, and came with double-walled (pressurised) baskets as stock (and a crazy high 15 bar pressure vs the 9 or so you see in the more serious machines). I don't think the flavour of those shots was anything like I'm getting with fresh coffee from a non-pressurised basket, but that's subjective I guess. It certainly did create a lot of foam!
I use an open basket in the dedica delonghi and it pulls way too fast, probably high pressure like you say. But I do it anyway. The open basket is much easier to clean.
@AustriaBargain: With no pressurised basket to cover your arse, you just need to tweak it with the grind and dose. Bit harder, but possibly more fun.
Yes…I wondered what my pressurised baskets looked like between the walls, can't have been pretty. I did invest in the factory single-walled baskets for it, though they were still drilled in a pattern for a bit of back pressure. I ended up sending that machine back because it started leaking.
Interesting… Why not? Pressurised portafilters have the same effect as oxidation?
Consistent grind quality and noise while grinding seem to be two important considerations at home.
Going by this popular grinder Eureka Mignon Specialtia the price point is AUD 500-550.I highly recommend the Eureka Mignon Specialita!
Skip the expense of incremental upgrades. I've been down the Sunbeam EM0480 -> Breville Smart Grinder Pro -> Eureka Mignon Specialita path. The combined cost of the first two grinders was nearly as much as the Eureka. All grinders produced result much better than pre-ground coffee, but in retrospect I should have just dropped the cash on the Eureka in the first place. It's head and shoulders above the other two grinders.
how does the the Eureka Mignon Specialita compare to Niche Zero?
I can't speak from personal experience as I have never used the Niche Zero, but from my research, they cater to different type of users.
Niche is geared towards people who make one or two coffees a day. The type of people that turn making a cup of coffee into a (possibly lengthy) ritual that they enjoy. The type of people who are more than happy to go to three or four times the effort to get that extra 5% improvement in their coffee shots. I can be like that on some days, but not every day.
Eureka is a solid grinder that does a great job with repeatable results and is easy and convenient to use. It has some nice features, like the de-clumping screen and fairly minimal grind retention, so the shots are still very good. Much more usable in scenarios where you want to do 3 or 4 coffees in a row.
I was considering the Niche and also the Baratza Sette 270Wi and spent many weeks researching grinders, but in the end the Eureka seemed to have the best combination of features, price and availability.
@peteru: Thanks mate, good points, you saved my time of doing research.
Based on the price, I guess I will choose the Eureka one… If the difference is just 5%.
Never. Industrial coffee grinders cost millions of dollars. Assuming you could get an industrial coffee grinder installed in your home and afford to have it grind many kilograms of coffee every time you want a single drink, and pay a staff to clean and maintain it, then a home grinder will never be as good.
Wut?? 🤔
😄
Industrial coffee grinders cost millions of dollars.
Link to one? An EK43 costs 'only' a few grand and is used widely at respectable cafes.
The EK43 can't grind thousands of tonnes of coffee per day like the ones at a factory that supply ground coffee for export around the world.
And why would a home barista want to grind thousand of tonnes of coffee per day in their home? Talk about overdoing it.
At What Price Point Do Coffee Grinders Surpass Industrially Ground Coffee?
$39
Wonder if that's modable.
firmware upgrade.
Pre ground coffee has very little to zero crema produced. The crema itself doenst affect taste that much but the perception is that coffee with crema = superior espresso shot. I have seen some baristas remove the crema or stir in before drinking.
This guy has a lot of solid info on coffee & coffee making https://www.youtube.com/@jameshoffmann/videos
Also, slightly newer to market, and the guy who carries Hoffmann around at conventions… https://www.youtube.com/@LanceHedrick
Reading the posters reply comments after three realize a: too much coffee, b: too much herbs inhaling c: escaped from the looney bin? Or combinations of above haha. Burr grinder only one recommended for espresso machines , read reviews buy what you can afford and remember commercial machines are higher use so if not higher use not required. ps. Clean burrs every week abs have a perfect grind from your under $200 grinder
I went down the same rabbit hole and now I roast my own coffee.
It's far cheaper in the long run and you can recoup your roaster back by selling fresh roasted beans to workmates.
I have the Ozbargain approved Dual Boiler and at first had a Sunbeam grinder, like this one :
https://www.sunbeam.com.au/kitchen-and-home/coffee/coffee-gr…
It was ok but was itching to upgrade so settled on this one :
https://alternativebrewing.com.au/products/macap-m2m-grinder
The difference is night and day I can tell you.
But the biggest factor is the freshness of beans which if you roast yourself is not a problem.
Are you roasting in a popcorn machine like others say they do?
i'm getting inconsistent results, have also tried the air fryer, but that was worse.I started off with a popcorn maker and the trick I found was to use a fan over it, as it got too hot.
Dump them out quick and continue the fan on them as they will keep roasting. I use a blower vac now and it's great for cooling the beans real quick.
You can actually roast them in your oven if you want. The bean has to get to an internal temp of 196c to get to first crack. I know people who do this.
I now use a Behmor, https://behmor.com.au/, 400g a roast, takes about 20 minutes.
Buy the green beans from https://beanbay.coffeesnobs.com.au/Categories/GreenCoffee
Had a roaring trade with workmates, even selling for $10 a 250g bag is a 300+% markup from the green bean price.
I went down the same rabbit hole and now I roast my own coffee
Can relate!
Cheapie espresso machine circa 2001.
Then a cheapie grinder.
Then machine upgrade, upgrade, upgrade until I got to a La Marzocco Linea Mini.
Then grinder upgrade, upgrade, upgrade until I got to a Macap M4D.
Then got into roasting with a DIY breadmaker with hot air gun setup.
Then a roasting upgrade to a Hottop KN-8828B.
Then machine upgrade to La Marzocco GS3 MP.
Then grinder upgrade to Niche Zero.I'm not sure if I will get to the bottom of the rabbit hole when I get my grail grinder (a Mahlkonig E65S GBW) but I reckon the wife (and domestic CFO) might just fill in said rabbit hole in with me inside. 😆
But the biggest factor is the freshness of beans which if you roast yourself is not a problem
….or live in close proximity to good specialty coffee roasters.
There are some great roasters in Canberra that I would buy from but it's at least $40-50 a kilo.
Green beans are around $15 and I have 20 minutes on a Saturday morning to do a roast.
For me it was a no brainer cost wise.
😮 I'm paying $35-40/kg for my preferred espresso blends.
Haven't quite got to roasting yet, but have been reasearching. Thinking about modding the rotisserie kit for my Baby Q.
All these people saying they roast their own coffee… I'm surprised they don't grow it in their backyards! XD
You could if you lived in the right area
https://www.sbs.com.au/food/article/2021/05/21/everything-yo…
Purchased via eBay for $200 a second hand burr grinder from a cafe. Got it cleaned up & serviced, eventually the owner of the cafe came around to my house and showed how to use it, the unit stands about 50cm tall. Looks like any other pro grinder in any cafe. All up cost $400. Too bad I no longer drink coffee anymore especially since reading the book Caffeine Blues.
Is that what's at the other end of this rabbit hole; abstinence? Is this supposed to be some kind of Buddhist lesson?!
You made me laugh! I went pro on the grinder and became a coffee snob. All that happened was I ended up with what felt like an allergy to caffeine. Never had more than 2 cups a day but ended up rejecting coffee. If I drink coffee, I'm out for 3 days like suffering the flu. And yes, I miss drinking coffee alot.
When you hit a perfect pour of pure crema with the nectar tasting like rich brandy fruit cake
Putting some actual brandy in helps.
After I read about the acceptable levels of ground up cockroaches in pre-ground coffee, I purchased a Breville Smart grinder and fresh beans and I feel much happier.
😱😱😱 right?
Surely a $109 Sunbeam Grindfresh multigrinder is better than pre-ground coffee.
Good Guys have them.