Recommend Me a Medium/Large EVs/PHEVs under $84916

sydney_kings on 24/11/2022 - 13:56
Last edited 24/11/2022 - 14:12

Looking for recommendations/ideas on an EV/PHEV to put onto a novated lease.
Key criteria is for the vehicle to be under the EV LCT of $84916.

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
BYD Atto3
Kia EV6 (delivery ETA - approx 12 months)
Lexus NX450+ (RRP is over $84916 - do we have any pricing recently if this may fall under $84916 based on negotiation/corporate discounts?)
Tesla Model Y (delivery ETA - March 2023)
Peugeot 3008 PHEV
Hyundai Ioniq 5

Due for release:
BMW iX1 (1H/23)
Mazda CX60 (1H/23)
Toyota bZ4x / Subaru Solterra (2H/23)
Volkswagen ID4 (2H/23 )
Alfa Romeo Tonale (2H/23

Are there any other vehicles I should keep an watch for?

Automotive

Comments

  • alexlim2000 on 24/11/2022 - 14:03
    +4

    BYD Atto3 - $50k is good enough as an A to B.

    What features or minimum requirements do you have?

    STAY AWAY from Mazda / Toyota EVs,very substandard range and technology.

    • sydney_kings on 24/11/2022 - 14:11

      I am looking at towing capacities as this is an area that's very suspect on the battery EVs (I think Tesla still hasn't released their towbars!)

      Key consideration will be resale over 2-3 years, as I am planning to put it onto a 12-24 month lease arrangement and turn the vehicle over.

      I should also include the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV on the list and the BYD Atto

      • Euphemistic on 24/11/2022 - 14:15

        What do you want to tow?

        • sydney_kings on 24/11/2022 - 14:16

          Box trailer - 750kg towing

          • blackstarzes on 28/12/2022 - 07:27

            @sydney_kings: FYI towing in general has an outsize effect on range when compared with ICE engines (additional weight and drag).

      • hothed on 25/11/2022 - 01:49

        Why get rid of the car so quickly?

  • djkelly69 on 24/11/2022 - 14:13
    +2

    Ioniq 5 should surely be on the list?

    • sydney_kings on 24/11/2022 - 14:15

      Yes, it definately should be! - I do prefer the EV6 however (just not the waitlist and the current lack of towkits)

  • Euphemistic on 24/11/2022 - 14:17

    When do you want to buy? Waiting another 12 months should see the available range increase a fair bit, but supplant may still be an issue.

    Maybe if you are going to turn over quickly just get a BYD and deal with its shortcomings (size) for a short while. I’d imagine in 2 years time second hand EVs will still be rare, but popular so should be easy to sell.

    • sydney_kings on 24/11/2022 - 14:24

      Happy to buy now, but realistically 1H/23. It will be a replacement vehicle so not entirely driven by timelines. Currently leaning towards the Kia EV6 or waiting for VW ID4.

      I hadn't given getting a BYD initially a consideration, so that idea is appreciated.

      One likely option is that I put the first car up on a 12 month lease and keep it as a 2nd car, then buy another in a years time - so maybe I should say 24-36 months is more realistic to keep the car

      • spackbace on 24/11/2022 - 14:30

        One likely option is that I put the first car up on a 12 month lease and keep it as a 2nd car, then buy another in a years time

        Have you looked into wait times?

        How soon do you need the new car?

        • sydney_kings on 24/11/2022 - 15:52

          Only a few of the cars, mostly EV6 (I'm told approx 12 months) and the Model Y (expect Mar/Apr 23).

          I have my current car to keep going - so timeframe isn't an issue apart for delaying the advantages of taking the vehicle under a novated lease arrangement

  • tissue on 24/11/2022 - 14:38
    +2

    Having just done this it came down to the BYD and Tesla for me. BYD was much cheaper but unknown resale and future support/warranty, plus high servicing costs. Tesla being more expensive but overall much nicer car and larger.

    Other options which you don’t have are the Polestar 2 and the Volvo XC40 or C40. These are nice too.

    • dcep on 24/11/2022 - 15:15

      servicing cost of BYD higher than Tesla ?

      • MITM on 24/11/2022 - 15:31
        +1

        The servicing schedule for the Atto 3 released by the company reveals one complimentary service at 5,000km or three months, and then a rotating minor and major service every twelve months or 20,000km.

        The minor services are priced at $190.37, and the major services range between $504 and $661, totally around $3,100

        Tesla does not set out a servicing schedule, but recommends changing the cabin air filter every two years for its Model 3 and Model Y, and every three years for the Model S and Model X.

        • Guybrush57 on 24/11/2022 - 16:46

          so Teslas don't need a service other than the air filter?

          • Pecan on 24/11/2022 - 18:55
            +2

            @Guybrush57: Nope, unless you notice something not right, there’s no need to contact Tesla for servicing or otherwise. The air filter change is easy to do yourself too (and they’re only $26 for the official ones).

    • sydney_kings on 24/11/2022 - 16:06

      Appreciate the suggestion - the C40 looks promising.

      Those considerations are also high on my mind. BYD is somewhat of an unknown to me (however it is backed by Berkshire Hathaway and is probably one of the worlds leading battery suppliers). As a car however, I need to be convinced.

      I like how the C40 twin motor might come in around the $85k figure potentially - something that the Model Y Performance won't be near ($100k plus).

      Just wondering if you test drove the C40 and if you had more thoughts around C40 vs Model Y?

      • tissue on 24/11/2022 - 16:45
        +1

        Didnt test drive anything, booked in to test drive Tesla next week.

        Preferred the XC40 over the C40 and Polestar, but they have ~12 mth delays. C40 there were a few available ASAP. Benefit of these is as you found that it just fits under the LCT (same with the BMW) for a twin motor 4wd version. C40 just seems too small for my situation (3 kids).

        Favourite was probably the Hyundai but rarer than hens teeth.

  • Drakesy on 24/11/2022 - 14:40
    -3

    BYD Atto 3 no brainer.

    None of them will tow well, if you are seriously going to be towing definitely stick with an ICE vehicle.

    • sydney_kings on 24/11/2022 - 15:55

      This is what I've found with the currently available EVs. They all claim 1600kg towing capacity but the tow kits are still not available - all claim to be coming soon

      This is the reason why I'm considering PHEVs as the tow kits are generally more readily available.

      • Euphemistic on 24/11/2022 - 16:02

        Hang on to your current car for towing duties?

        • sydney_kings on 24/11/2022 - 16:11

          Yep, it looks that way. Hopefully it gets addressed in the next year or so - as I'll be looking to replace both vehicles in the next 2-3 years

  • MS Paint on 24/11/2022 - 14:46

    F-150 lightning

    • sydney_kings on 24/11/2022 - 15:49

      That would be high on the list but I can't see it coming under $85k - I think we might be lucky to get that under $150k

      • Euphemistic on 24/11/2022 - 16:05

        Based on some expected pricing for LDV ute EV I saw that wouldn’t be far wrong. LDV wanting north of $90 for a 2wd ute without some of the features found in their diesel versions you can get for sub $50k. no spare tyre or cruise control were mentioned.

        I’m hoping the prices listed were wrong.

  • websterp on 24/11/2022 - 16:06
    +2

    If the car is used for towing on a daily basis then forget about an EV unless you prefer to go looking for a charger every 100Km or so and waste time/money sitting in the car waiting for it to charge. There is a reason pretty much all EV manufacturers are somewhat coy about the towing capabilities of their cars.

    There is a video somewhere on YouTube where they did a tow test on a F150 lightning and the battery started dropping even before they left the neighbourhood. This would be the same with any EV.

    • sydney_kings on 24/11/2022 - 16:09

      Towing will be used probably once a month and I agree whilst a lot of BEVs mention towing capacities, the towing kits are unavailable (enquired with Kia and Tesla).

      I do have the luxury of keeping my current ICE to tow and for longer trips in the short term. I am hoping as more models are released this "gap" is addressed.

      • drewbytes on 25/11/2022 - 07:12
        +2

        You can get after-market towing kits for Tesla. Plenty of people have them on the Tesla forums and they seem to do the job.

      • macca9123 on 25/11/2022 - 12:19
        +2

        I'll second what @drewbytes said. I put an aftermarket tow bar on my Model 3 from EV Stealth Solutions. Primary use is to take a bike rack and very occasionally a trailer. The hitch is removable so you can't see it when it's not being used. When loaded with 4 bikes and doing highway speeds for a couple of hours it used an extra 10% of the battery so it wasn't a huge impact but it was noticeable. The main difficulty was trying to use a supercharger as the cables are not very long and the bikes obviously prevent you from reversing in close. Luckily the supercharger was empty and I was able to park at an angle without any problem.

    • Euphemistic on 24/11/2022 - 18:13
      +1

      Wholes it’s true that EVs suffer from markedly reduced range when towing I wonder wether some of those tests are being smart with their driving. They probably drove at the posted limit, not a bit under. Most caravanners recognise that towing at 90 and not 100 on the highway saves serious amounts of fuel.

      OP is also considering a 750kg box trailer which is not overly heavy, and unless it’s got a cage on it should sit behind the vehicle and not affect aerodynamics as much. Aero is a big factor in increased consumption when towing.

      What I’m learning from EV highway and tow tests is just how efficient EVs are around town. Because fuel economy seems to improve for ICE vehicles on the highway just shows how stupidly inefficient they are in the urban setting. ICE will often do just as well as urban driving when towing a decent load, in comparison to heir abysmal city consumption. EVs show increased energy consumption in highway driving due to aero drag and much reduced range when towing shows how much energy is really needed to push us around in or steel cocoons.

      • Mcuser on 24/11/2022 - 18:46

        You ever seen a ev with a tow bar yet?

        • Euphemistic on 24/11/2022 - 18:55

          Yes. They exist, just not common

        • jhaley3180 on 21/12/2022 - 09:23

          Polster and Volvo both offer factory fitted towing on their EV's… Polster use the Euro standard, Volvo offer the 50mm hitch.

          I've just received written quotes from each.

  • cheapjunkie on 24/11/2022 - 16:43
    +1

    Could also look at the Cupra Formentor PHEV. Basically a VW designed by the Spanish. New brand but gaining quite a bit of traction in Australia. Currently comes with complimentary first 3 years of servicing.

  • Mcuser on 24/11/2022 - 18:46
    -2

    Yea something that uses fuel lol

  • Mcuser on 24/11/2022 - 18:47
    -1

    Come back in 20 years lol

  • schmuppet on 24/11/2022 - 19:41

    I was car shopping a few months ago and my local dealer had an EV6 in stock and available for immediate delivery.

    • sydney_kings on 25/11/2022 - 10:01

      I had enquired on the GT-Line AWD/Dual Motor and was told initially 2024
      This is somewhat scrubbed from the list now as the price bump has put it over the sub $85k range :(

  • Switchblade88 on 24/11/2022 - 20:35
    +2

    MG HS PHEV?

    I've got one and it'll tow up to 750kgs (I believe 1500kgs if you ignore ADR rules). $49k, which is up from the $46k I paid 12 months ago.

    Very happy with mine - heaps of torque with both motors going, but I can easily get 1200km from the 37L fuel tank - since I can easily commute 60km daily without using petrol. No mechanical or other issues at all, and the lack of range anxiety compared to a pure EV is nice - especially when towing.

    • Tleyx on 21/12/2022 - 17:28

      Ignoring ADR might invalidate insurance

  • hippieyippie on 24/11/2022 - 22:52
    +2

    If your urban driving needs is within a PHEV's pure electric range then a PHEV will make the most sense for your needs as you get the efficiency of an electric for urban and that of an ICE for towing and freeways.

    • sydney_kings on 25/11/2022 - 09:59

      Yes, this is the suprising thing that I'm finding, that PHEV is probably the best compromise currently - especially if its a single car household.
      The only issue is that there are very few models available in the market

      I'm tossing up either going one car as a BEV and the second as a PHEV/ICE which would get around the towing constraints or until move BEVs come the market.

      • md333 on 25/11/2022 - 13:25

        I just got an Outlander PHEV. It seems to be more of an EV than most of the other plugins, mostly drives fully electric, it does not have a gearbox, only ever engages the engine directly to the wheels at highway speed. Makes a very acceptable EV for around town, but can also drive across the country any time with no planning. (Drove it back from Melbourne to Perth in 4 days after buying it).
        I would prefer a full EV eventually, but at the moment there is very limited charging east of Perth. Could definitely get by with something like a Tesla, but would have to make some compromises and be prepared for delays if chargers busy or broken. I think the situation is better in Eastern states, and suspect will only be a couple of years before the charging network progresses, but this will keep me going in the meantime. The new model Outlander has about twice the EV range of mine.

  • Wandersen on 25/11/2022 - 07:45

    You missed the Sorento PHEV. It’s the only true 7 seater on the list. We’ve had one since January and couldn’t be happier. We’ve only put petrol in it twice since then :-). Generally urban use. Long wait though now.

    • sydney_kings on 25/11/2022 - 09:56

      I was looking at this option yesterday evening and its now come up quite high on the shortlist.

      How are you find the Plug-In side of the car - does the "hybrid" also function without plugging in such as the "closed loop" regenerative Toyota Hybrid system or do you have the plug it in the charge the battery side.

      I do have a couple of questions and would appreciate a real world perspective:
      - How are you finding the range of the EV aspect of the car and are you usually running in both EV/fuel or EV-only mode?
      - Have you experienced any issues with the power output in either fuel or electric only mode?

      • Switchblade88 on 25/11/2022 - 10:38

        does the "hybrid" also function without plugging in such as the "closed loop" regenerative Toyota Hybrid system or do you have the plug it in the charge the battery side.

        PHEVs don't regenerate in the same method that mild hybrids do - but both will do regenerative braking by using the electric motor as a generator.

        For a PHEV, the system is essentially programmed to not recharge from the petrol motor, and will usually use up the battery in auto/combo mode (name depends on the manufacturer) until the battery is flat where it'll stay in essentially petrol only mode. By doing this you are maximising the amount of power being used via charging, INSTEAD of using petrol - since electricity is at least one third of the cost per km driven, it makes much more sense to maximise that. You also get this advantage when running in EV only mode.

        For a mild hybrid, since you don't have the advantage of cheap plugin power, the electric motor is deliberately driven in generator mode by the petrol engine to recharge the battery, which is usually while cruising on the highway or wherever.

  • Wandersen on 25/11/2022 - 16:17
    +1

    The sorento PHEV operates as a normal hybrid if you don’t charge it. It has similar fuel economy as the sorento hybrid if you do so. We get 50-60k per charge. We work from home so leave it to charge when the sun is out during the day on solar :-)

    As far as power output goes - the car has real pinch off the line in pure EV mode. Certainly more than my old sorento diesel. Add the petrol engine and its faster but I rarely floor it enough to do that why bother it’s an SUV not a sports car.

  • master131 on 21/12/2022 - 19:53
    +1

    Been going thru the exact same dilemma - I really wanted an EV6 but the delivery time was too far out. Only the Tesla Model Y had a reasonable delivery timeframe and that's what I decided to lock in yesterday. Was not a fan of the interior aesthetic of the Atto 3. XC40 Recharge was another consideration but slightly longer wait and less range.

    • modsec802 on 28/12/2022 - 10:55

      I’m not so keen on Tesla removing all the sensors (parking and radar) before their cameras even work

      https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision

      • master131 on 28/12/2022 - 12:38

        That's unfortunate - you would think they would implement camera equivalents for the features that use the ultra-sonic sensors before ripping them out, though I don't really intend to use those Enhanced Autopilot features anyway - at least not off the bat - it's cool tech, but it's not really necessary.

  • hothed on 07/02/2023 - 16:23

    Mazda CX90 will have PHEV in 2024. Pricing TBC

    Missing from your list:

    Mazda CX60 has PHEV,
    MG ZS (long range just annonced)
    MG 4
    Volvo C40
    Polestar 2
    Tesla Model 3
    Cupra Forementor
    Cupra Leon

  • Sval on 17/04/2024 - 09:08

    @sydney_kings, what did you end up getting?

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