Kids Can't Play on Common Property?

b_sean on 06/11/2022 - 12:35
Last edited 07/11/2022 - 10:34 by 1 other user

Background -

We live in a subdivided lot of units of 2, ours is the rear one. There is no active body corporate. We have longish (20m or so) common drive way. Kids are largely indoors. They hardly play outside (once in a month type event). Even if kids play outside they are mindful of noise and they play downball/catch thrown downs with soft tennis ball.

Our neighbour is a lonely old lady living on her own.

Issue -

Neighbour says that it's not allowed to play on the common property as per "laws".

Does anyone know if there is such a law? How to handle the situation.

Thanks,
Sean.

Home & Garden Strata

Comments

  • AustriaBargain on 07/11/2022 - 08:49
    +4

    Bring her a cake. Old people are often on fixed incomes and love sweet baked goods. Could change her whole disposition.

    • dogboy on 07/11/2022 - 13:48
      +1

      I like this. Maybe even offer to help the old girl with stuff that might be difficult for her now like taking out bins or whatever. Maybe the kids could even make her something nice at daycare/school to make her feel loved.

      • AustriaBargain on 07/11/2022 - 15:30
        +2

        Well you don't want to commit too much ongoing time and effort to the old bag. You just want to sweeten her mood towards you and your kids.

        • dogboy on 08/11/2022 - 10:28

          Hahaha fair enough :p

  • MyOtherOtter on 07/11/2022 - 09:01
    +1

    Our strata previously allowed supervised play in common areas, and we have a big undercover open-air garage that was barely used during lockdown because no-one could go anywhere.

    Our strata decided that since no-one else was having fun, the kids couldn't either, and banned even supervised play in those areas. Really made lockdown even more joyous than it was previously.

  • MrBear on 07/11/2022 - 09:10

    You only let your kids our once a month???

    • b_sean on 07/11/2022 - 11:12

      Once in a month on common property (make it 2/3 times as summer is approaching) else they play at the playground.

  • GordonD on 07/11/2022 - 09:27
    -5

    The negging of my posting above to the point where it is hidden unfortunately reflects the increasing cancel culture on OzBargain where people can't say things EVEN IF THEY ARE THE FACTS and even if they aren't what they themselves would prefer to be the case because what they say will just end up being hidden. Where the truth can only be stated if it is popular with the mob.

    In a free society you have a right to not have to not have to hear things that are violent and abusive and offensive. You don't have a right to not have to hear things just because you don't think they should be true.

    • whatgift on 07/11/2022 - 10:20
      +1

      While I don’t think posts with a certain number of negative votes should be hidden, voting is how the site works, that is life.

      That being said, not sure why your previous post was negged - it’s possible that what you said is simply not true, but no one has responded so it’s hard to say. There are plenty of posts for and against the children playing in the driveway, and many more blunt than yours. The last paragraph may have been the trigger for negs though, since it makes some sweeping generalisations.

    • Cleartripe on 07/11/2022 - 10:32
      +2

      Two things : suggesting that kids need to be overseen all the time, and your suggestions reeks of 'what can't they eat cake'

    • banana365 on 07/11/2022 - 12:02

      Perhaps it's this bit -

      Model by-laws do not permit children to remain unsupervised by an adult in any common area that may be dangerous to the child

      While that may be true, perhaps that's what's being down-voted rather than your commentary on it. The vagueness of that definition essentially allows for kids to be banned from all areas purely by somebody defining it as "dangerous". Driveways have risks, certainly, but at what point do they flip over into dangerous? Everyone used to play on the street when I was little and our neighbours' kids still do. Every so often you hear calls of "Car!" and everyone moves off. The risk is managed, even by young kids. No significant danger.

    • morse on 08/11/2022 - 03:09
      +4

      I’m not sure if it’s the ‘facts’ in your comment that people don’t like or the opinions

      If you have young children, don't live in a strata building where being forced into close contact with them causes friction with neighbours.

      ^ Is an opinion.

      Realistically living in townhouses, duplexes and units is getting more and more common. Not everyone can afford to live in a free standing house with a decent bit of land to seperate them from neighbours. Let’s not forget that children aren’t the only people who can be disruptive, noisy or cause a safety issue (not that we even know that this is happening here). As you’ll have seen in these forums plenty of adults slam doors, play loud music, park where they should in strata buildings.

      The voting buttons let people indicate if they like your comment or not. It doesn’t stop you from making a comment.

      You don't have a right to not have to hear things just because you don't think they should be true.

      It seems like people heard you, they just don’t agree with you. People have the right not to agree with you. It’s not ‘cancel culture’ - pretty much everyone would have made a comment on here that most people don’t like and is negged, some people more than others. Just voicing your thoughts without anyone giving feedback or interacting with those thoughts is a blog not a forum.

  • newbo on 07/11/2022 - 09:30

    Who is responsible if they hurt themselves?

    • Cleartripe on 07/11/2022 - 10:30
      +2

      Kids must be responsible for themselves. You can't keep them wrapped in cotton wool all day.
      Previous generations have grown up and human race has continued to this day, without the super coddling kids are showered with now

    • b_sean on 07/11/2022 - 11:14

      Kids are old enough to take care of themselves however one of us are always supervising them.

  • ribze1 on 07/11/2022 - 09:34

    I'm assuming there is a strata scheme in place, in which case there would be by-laws about use of common property and noise.

  • ilmenite on 07/11/2022 - 10:15

    In WA at least, two dwellings on a single block do not need to have any form of strata management, three or more then, yes it goes fully strata with boards, meetings etc. If the same is the case in Vic, then there are no rules or bylaws other than what is agreed between the owners. If the previous owner didn't indicate during sale that there were agreed rules to abide by, then they need to be reset and agreed again.

  • hiancc on 07/11/2022 - 10:41
    +3

    sounds like you live in Vic. There's always a body corporate (now known as Owners Corporation) when you have Strata title and common property. However, in Vic and some states, if it is a 2 unit strata, you are not required to have meetings, minutes, etc. Looks like the model rules apply to your situation (you can download from Vic Gov website.
    https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/housing/owners-corporations/…
    See clause 4
    I can't see any rules preventing kids from playing other than the "quiet enjoyment" in 4.1.7 However, that clause is not the model rule. That clause says you can e.g. make a rule that says kids are not allowed to play on CP, but since you are a 2 unit strata, you both must agree to create that rule in the first place.
    While we are on the subject, note that most home insurance policies do not cover liability from common property. You need to take out Strata insurance separately unless your particular policy include coverage for your liability for common property. Check with your insurer. Normally when you are on good terms with your neighbour, you take out a joint policy and share the cost.

    • b_sean on 07/11/2022 - 11:14

      Thank you

  • b_sean on 07/11/2022 - 11:16

    Thank you all for your comments/feedback thus far. It has been really helpful.

  • GourmetFoodie on 07/11/2022 - 11:54

    There is no law. So yes, technically you can do whatever you want. That being said I’d be annoyed too if I had kids playing on the driveway that runs past my house.

    Do you not have your own back garden they can play in? Or send them to the park. Not everyone wants to hear kids playing and making noise.

    I have kids too so I empathise it might be a bit inconvenient to you to have them play elsewhere but it’s actually a great teaching process for your kids to learn that maybe we could all be a little less selfish and a bit more considerate for others that the world would be a better place. The small things make such a difference. I mow the shared nature strip with my neighbour. I get my guests to park over my driveway so my neighbours have more street room when reversing out of their driveway. It all helps…

    • derrida derider on 07/11/2022 - 21:22
      +2

      "it’s actually a great teaching process for your kids to learn that maybe we could all be a little less selfish and a bit more considerate for others that the world would be a better place."

      Sure, but isn't it the old lady who is being selfish and inconsiderate in this case? Isn't she the one who needs the (gentle) lesson? But I suppose misery loves company.

      Kids gotta play or they go crazy and end up far more of a problem for everyone, including the neighbour. And strangely enough, most people love the sound of kids playing - it's a really happy sound.

      • GourmetFoodie on 07/11/2022 - 22:33
        -5

        I respectfully disagree and find it really sad you can’t see the other view point. Other people’s noise is not always welcome to everyone. That’s great if you’re fine with noise but everyone has the right to peace and quiet in their own home. The driveway runs past her house and I don’t think the request for peace and quiet outside her house/windows is unreasonable or “selfish”. It’s not hard for the kids to play elsewhere. Minor inconvenience maybe but there are many other places they can play including inside their own house.

        • Orion au on 08/11/2022 - 23:38

          She needs to understand if you live in such a complex, there's going to be neighbour noise. It doesn't sound excessive, it doesn't sound that frequent. Her complaints sound the very definition of selfish, even if you think they're justified. It's the shared driveway - key word being 'shared'.

  • trapper on 07/11/2022 - 12:12

    There is unlikely to be any law, especially nothing that would be enforceable against kids…

    But try talk to her and find some middle ground.

    Maybe it's only really annoying her during nap time or whatever and you can work around that etc

  • Drakesy on 07/11/2022 - 13:43

    Lol,
    Not exactly something that's enforceable.

    Maybe get her a bottle of sherry or wine and try to keep her in your good books.

  • jmagic0 on 07/11/2022 - 14:23
    +5

    Insurance Broker here. You can't sue yourself so who cares. We get this question sometimes, there's no rules to state you can't play in common area. The funny thing is the last person to ask this question to me was an single old lady…

    • imurgod on 07/11/2022 - 14:45

      This.

    • b_sean on 07/11/2022 - 14:49

      Thanks.

  • cktftw on 07/11/2022 - 15:45
    -6

    The might be no "laws" as such, but I hate kids, so if you make my life difficult I will make yours hell.

    You might be right but do you really want a difficult neighbour?

    • Donaldhump on 07/11/2022 - 15:55

      yes they are being really thoughtful having kids wanting to play on the "common" property. if you hate kids (hopefully your parents didnt hate you) and life and noise, go live in the bush and hang out with kookaburras.

      the old bird (and u) are the difficult neighbours, its all about compromise

      the old karen who used to live next to me and across from the pool complained when i used the pool. the pool was f……. there when you bought the place, so you move.

      • cktftw on 07/11/2022 - 16:16
        -3

        Sure.
        Let's just continue being difficult to each other then.

        • Donaldhump on 07/11/2022 - 21:15
          +2

          don't buy a house next to another house and expect ppl to tip toe around you.
          move to acreage

          • cktftw on 07/11/2022 - 21:21
            -1

            @Donaldhump: Or dont be a dick and let your rascals play in your own backyard

            • Donaldhump on 07/11/2022 - 21:22
              +2

              @cktftw: it is their backyard, hence the word common

              unless its your exclusive common property or you own yard, take your story walking.

  • FloatingPoint on 07/11/2022 - 16:34

    There is no way to define 'PLAY'.

    I can say you 'playing' by driving up and down in the car on the common driveway multiple times a day. How is that different if a kid riding a bike there?
    Just because they are kids. Whatever kids do can see as 'play'.

    Conclusion: She hate kids

  • Eatslikeacat on 07/11/2022 - 16:53

    NSW. 2 Unit Strata is unlikely to have its own by-laws. Model by-laws apply when there are no custom by-laws registered on title. Model by-laws can be viewed at Link For children it says:

    "(2) An owner or occupier of a lot must not permit any child for whom the owner or occupier is responsible, unless accompanied by an adult exercising effective control, to be or remain on common property that is a laundry, car parking area or other area of possible danger or hazard to children."

    Issue 1: Are you sure you are even in a strata titled unit? It might be a duplex with 2 units that are freehold with a shared driveway recorded as a right of carriageway on the titles. Check the title to check that it's a strata titled unit and if it's not then there are no by-laws.

    Issue 2: If it's a strata scheme then as an occupant or owner the old lady has no right to be giving you directions. She can complain to the strata committee or the strata manager and a notice of by-law breach can be served. Oh right, no active body corporate (common in NSW and VIC). So no strata committee or strata manager to complain to. Sure there are 'laws' but who's going to enforce them? In NSW she can apply to NCAT and go through the whole process (not likely).

    So in reality your kids shouldn't be playing on a shared driveway where they can be killed or injured by a car. As for 'laws' in effect the old lady will grumble but nothing will happen.

    • Hangryuman on 09/11/2022 - 08:53
      +1

      'your kids shouldn't be playing on a shared driveway where they can be killed or injured by a car'

      sure but in the case where the driveway only goes to the rear unit occupied by the kids' family I'd put this as extremely low risk

  • Drpepper666 on 07/11/2022 - 17:26

    Old lady with nothing better to do. Living in a shared complex has it's draw backs, she will just have to deal with it. That said, try to make sure your kids aren't making unreasonable noise

  • [Deactivated] on 07/11/2022 - 18:04

    People who want everyone else to behave only in a way that suits them shouldn't live in strata in the first place. It's not like it's 10pm at night, and noise could come from anywhere like the property next door which she wouldn't be able to do anything about.

    Anyway… if you're renting the real estate agent would have any strata related paperwork/rules, or be able to obtain them from the landlord. If you own it then any related paperwork/rules should have been provided when upon purchase. If not then ask for her copy so you can READ the info for yourself. If she says, "I didn't read it, Mr Blah just said" or "I had a similar situation with the last tenants and the police came and said…" then reply, "So it's just opinion and word of mouth then. Thanks. Gotta go I think my soup is boiling over…" and leave.

    Whatever the result I would simply ignore her, repeat the rules to the kids so they're clear, then tell them to go enjoy themselves. i.e. Test it out to see what happens. If she says anything again after the above, either say: "Thanks for letting me know" and turn your back, ignoring her and directing the kids with to continue what they were already doing… or, just stand there in silence until she realises her nasty bluff so she could watch Dr Phil without seeing a ball bounce past her see thru lace curtains didn't work and she leaves huffy or humiliated, but defeated.

    If something eventually does happen (if someone comes to "do something" about it) they'll probably just warn you the first time and then you'll know where you stand. But who are "they" if you have no active body corp… police!? Police WILL try to con (bullshit) whoever they think the softest target is. So just state the facts to them in a bored tone of voice: "Look, it's like this… the kids already know to keep noise to a minimum which they obey. It's a common area all residents have the use of, all they're doing is bouncing a ball for goodness sake, and they can't be expected to be couch potatoes all their lives nor exercise inside the house, or me go to a park daily just because she wants to be unreasonable by expecting total silence in a strata development 24/7 to suit only her selfish self. We've been more than reasonable, she's being completely unreasonable and a poor quality neighbour. We've already gone out of our way to educate our kids how to accommodate her, it's now time for her to be reasonable by meeting us halfway."

    The cops will realise you're not the soft target so will go bullshit her into pulling her head in instead.

    If nothing happens at all, no cops come, etc but she tries on different new bluffs, either stand and stare at her saying nothing until she leaves, or say something firmly like this: "Now that really is enough. I'm sure you got to play as a kid. It's unreasonable to expect total silence living in strata. So this is how it's going to be from now on… My kids already know to keep noise to a minimum and it's only bouncing a ball for goodness sake - not slamming a baseball through your windows or inviting a dozen friends over, screaming and splashing in a pool. They will be playing in daylight hours no later than blah PM. So either deal with it or don't, but I don't want to hear about this again." Then leave, ignoring anything else she says/does right after.

    If she whines about it on another day after she's dreamed up some new BS, say, "What did I already tell you about this? I told you I'm not discussing it with you further because you're being completely unreasonable. Either produce your proof, or call blah blah and we'll both put our case forward and see what happens." Then again walk away.

    Cutting her off every time by walking away not only underlines what your DECISION on the matter is, but it calls her bluff. i.e. Put up, or shut up. When she realises you're not going to be deceived into compliance to exclusively suit her, she'll either provide the evidence or go quiet.

  • spedohero on 07/11/2022 - 19:10

    Is the access to the garage along the common drive? Maybe just get her some nice gifts and make love not war

  • McFly on 07/11/2022 - 20:40

    Just ignore her.
    You sound like a decent person/parent.
    Well, except for the fact you have not provided an MS Paint picture.

  • DiscoJango on 07/11/2022 - 21:03

    its once a mont ffs, just ignore her, she can put with some noise from kids playing for a few hours ONCE A MONTH.

  • mjdau on 07/11/2022 - 21:16
    +4

    The art of having wonderful neighbours is to be one first.

    My partner and I moved into our unit in June. We've done whatever we can to help our neighbours, and now they do it too. I know they're looking out for us, and they said they like us "better than the assholes who used to live there, who never even said hello".

    Forget all the snarky comments and telling her where to go. She's a lonely old lady living on her own.
    What's her world like? What does she like to eat? What jobs does she need doing? What adult approach to getting along do you want to model to your kids? What can you do so she looks forward to hearing your kids at play?

  • Blackadda on 07/11/2022 - 23:12

    you need to check your title.. could be her land and you just have a right of way… not sure that extends to playing.

    or it could be yours and she only has right of way.

    in these situations it's usually one or the other given no body corp.

  • freedomofspeech on 08/11/2022 - 09:59

    Neighbour says that it's not allowed to play on the common property as per "laws".

    Does anyone know if there is such a law? How to handle the situation.

    -> Certainly no laws (e.g. Constitution). Remember that Strata by-laws are no laws!!

    • Hangryuman on 09/11/2022 - 08:50

      'Strata by-laws are no laws'

      nice try - but standard tenancy agreements include compliance with strata by-laws, and repeated breaches such as noise disturbing others can be grounds for termination of tenancies, or fines from NCAT if owners continue to upset others.

  • tomleonhart on 08/11/2022 - 11:11
    +1

    Wow. I now realise how lucky we are to live in a complex of 22 houses and all the kids play together in the common area without much complaint at all.

  • PR0r on 08/11/2022 - 17:49
    -1

    This reminds me of the nasty old hag a few doors down who mutters under her breath at the kids drawing with chalk on the road. I watched her poring boiling water on it one early morning to get rid of it.

  • Hangryuman on 09/11/2022 - 08:44

    'We live in a subdivided lot of units of 2, ours is the rear one. There is no active body corporate'

    hmm - without details of ownership - it sounds like a 2nd home built behind an original home - or simply split into front and back with a shared driveway - if only 2 places, they didn't bother to try to set up and register a strata plan

    in which case it's more like neighbours sharing

    first guess - lonely old lady wants someone to talk to - try saying hello - how can we help you - maybe if wifey is a good cook start with a gift of a sweet dessert or something that most people find delicious - and you might find it transforms the relationship instantly. You could knock her door holding the plate of delicious - hand it to her and say 'sorry the kids have disturbed you, we'd like you to try this and see what you think!'

    which would likely obtain 'oh don't worry about it - oh thank you !' - with happy smiles

    maybe you could offer to help with her shopping or trimming her garden - small things like that could end up with large unexpected gifts from her if she doesn't have anyone to leave her estate to.

    a lot of lonely old people start by complaining, as a cover for their feeling of needing to communicate but I can't ask for that, so at least I'll get attention if I start with a complaint 'terrible weather' or somesuch

    try a little kindness - https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/glencampbell/tryalittlekindn… - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF_DHc76PGI

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