I'm sure you've read the news about this, Paypal's decision to update their terms to allow them to fine you $2500 if you say anything online that they disagree with.
This George Orwell's nightmare come to life so I voted with my wallet and closed my account. What alternatives are there for people who don't want to support this sort of fascist behaviour?
I had them do something similar to me last year during lockdowns.
I had someone contact me to buy some laptop I had for sale.
The buyer organised their own courier to pick them up and PayPal would not release the funds to me until the buyer confirmed delivery with PayPal, even though the tracking number they provided to myself and PayPal showed the goods delivered. I had to wait a whole month before they released the funds to me.
I swore I would never use them again
They pull these shitty stunts all the time. Not surprised!
@ cosmogirlsz
PayPal banned me for life as it appeared fraudulent and withheld the $2k for 6 months. I only just received it.
There is no way to dispute this blanket ban…
So you got your money? Sure, it took six months, but that's not a 'blanket ban'.
@mhz
I had to wait a whole month before they released the funds to me.
So you got your money too?
Sorry, help me I am confused. You guys may have legitimate complaints about the dispute resolution process, and the time it takes. But in both cases said process actually worked.
Your two experiences seem to be contrary to the actual topic of this thread: PayPal listened to you, and ultimately agreed with you, and didn't 'fine' you $2500.
Perhaps you need to start another thread: "A general whinge about all thing payPal"? And that'd be cool, and no doubt have many such tales as your own - and probably even more egregious ones where folks really were shafted.
So Roman, lets get this right.. you think what they did is ok? Its NOT ok and anyone that this happens too needs to file an ombudsman case right away, then they will get their money that has been STOLEN.. yes thats right.. STOLEN.
Paypal are not above the law and what they do to countless people is as bad as stealing. Well done on supporting that pal. "resolution process" my backside, 6 months my backside..
@ Goonerash
So Roman, lets get this right.. you think what they did is ok?
Where did I say that? Please don't 'straw man' me.
In fact, I specifically stated "many such tales as your own - and probably even more egregious ones where folks really were shafted."
I pointed out two posters who used terrible examples of how bad PayPal may have behaved. Examples where PayPal actually and ultimately did the right thing! (Albeit no doubt too slowly for some.)
Sadly, large organisations acting slowly in providing refunds, redress, etc is pretty much the norm. Ask anyone who has ever tried getting banks to reverse dodgy transactions, or Centrelink refunding or applying backdated payments.
By all means express your outrage at PP (and others), but giving explicit and meaningful examples will give your argument strength.
@Roman Sandstorm: @ cosmogirlsz
We get it, you love PayPal.
And you are 'straw manning me as well. I never said, or even suggested that. If one reads my comments this can't even be inferred.
just open your eyes to some criticism mate
Just like @mhz and @Goonerash you seem to think I am defending PayPal. If you all actually read what I wrote you would see this is not the case.
But in the cases cited PayPal actually refunded the disputed money. Yes, it was slow, and I agreed with you that this wasn't ideal.
I simply called for actual cases of PayPal screwing people over. Not examples of them doing the right thing, although slowly.
I understand it can be difficult for some people to read beyond 140 characters nowadays…
Actually it is a blanket ban, sure I got the funds after 6 months but my account is locked forever.
There is also the risk that the customer could've fraudulently opened a dispute against me and that I would not have been able to resolve it…
We get it, you love PayPal.. just open your eyes to some criticism mate
yep, paypal are fascists. no 2 ways about it. I got banned, phoned them and was told they banned me to make it easier to use another payment system.
Authoritarian and radicalised, yes…
‘Fascists’ ?? I don’t think soo.
We throw that word around soo causally these days,
not in paypal's case. I speak from personal experience, as opposed to the massive amount of publicity they have been getting for their fascist behavior toward well known groups or individuals.
I love the Eurythmics
lol
What about Van Halen?
Insane that they'd even try this. Gabpay can't come soon enough :D
The war for freedom is perpetual, and despised by the masses, hooked on corporate media and their interests of the day. This world is cooked.
How bleak is reality looking, individual companies are rising with the power to ban you from doing transactions unless you comply with their corporate agenda. Dont know whats worse, gas chambers or starving to death because your government/overlords dont like your opinions/identity/religion.
Delete paypal and hope this isn't a sign of the coming financial woes.
lol such an overreaction
by misinformation they're talking about scams and stuff, not your political views or whatever you think
y'all outraged over a consumer protection policy lmao
they're talking about scams and stuff, not your political views or whatever you think
Did they ?
And where did they say that..
Didn’t they specifically say ‘misinformation’ ?
They screwed up and just wrote it vague instead of being clear. I assume they meant misinformation as in false or inaccurate claims of products or services they're selling, or misleading advertisement, outright scams, etc. They're in the business of payment processing so that's what I would assume they're talking about. It doesn't make sense for it mean any of the others things people are insinuating to me.
I assume they meant misinformation as in false or inaccurate claims of products or services they're selling, or misleading advertisement, outright scams, etc.
Hmm, I like you would have wanted to believe something like that too, as what you are suggesting would make better sense.
Only reason I don’t think that anymore is because PayPal has an extensive history of cancelling their services to people on the right, political contrarians, anti mandate personalities, People donating to the trucker’s protests (Canada) etc
We are not talking about scammers or money laundering here ^^… but political dissidence.
Nothing worse than being so cocky about something then buckling, lmao
lol such an overreaction
by misinformation they're talking about scams and stuff, not your political views or whatever you think
y'all outraged over a consumer protection policy lmao
…
I assume they meant
cuz pull up to bankstown station right now
Hahaha
Is that how you roll, huh ?
You’ll do foo*in nuthin..
@Gervais fanboy: lol I legit was coincidentally close to bankstown station when @BankstownMoeyDW commented
@Nillionaire: Hahahahaha
Plot Twist : @BankstownMoeyDW did indeed show up to find a different crew that ultimately shanked him…
Last Seen
1 hour 56 min ago
Wallah your lucky I missed the stop
Another attempt at the media to turn something into a culture, us vs them war with vague information and letting people's imaginations run wild.
Also, I'm going to take a wild guess and assume the OP has never read 1984 because even if what everyone is claiming was ever correct, that's not what the book is about or how "facism" works. Lmao.
I'm going to take a wild guess and assume…
Well that's sounds like solid reasoning…
that's not what the book is about or how "facism" works
You can't even spell the word, yet you claim to be the authority on it
Lmao.
Lmao.
Hahaha
Nicely done mate. GG
Congrats, you've risen to the level of "sidekick who stands behind other people and points"
@GrueHunter: Unless you haven’t noticed, I have got almost a dozen comments here of having a back and forth with other people, including yourself. Twice now.
So How is that ‘standing behind other people’s points’ ???
Am I not allowed to find something funny and say that it’s funny ?
Logically, you are soo inept.
Congrats, you've risen to the level of "sidekick who stands behind other people and points"
And your value to this discussion is…?
I mean, you misspelled "because" up the page so you're not exactly top of the class, are you?
Not common sense on Ozbargain!
To think, PayPal had a legal team that gone thru this before publishing it.
Clowns.
Every nutter brings up 1984 so often its a cliché now.
Why not.
Very scary to think someone saw the future so clearly.
well - don't forget your tin-foil hat the next time you go out then.
Pass me yours when you feel safe to do it.
You must know something.
Thanks.
Chris, you ever been called simpleton?
Thanks for letting me know OP, just closed my account that I've had for 18 years.
A corporation is the last institution in the world I'll take moral guidance from.
Remember all started with the COVID hysteria … and by far most people thought it was justified, adecuate and appropriate.
Think twice next time.
Yep. All the do gooder mask wearing Nazis are now up in arms about PayPal throwing around terminology that they indirectly empowered to do so.
I'm going back to using wire payments for my eBay purchases because of this.
wire payments
Did you also move to America?
Did you also move to America?
Available all over the world, including Australia.
Amazing tech.
Learn more: https://www.thecurrencyshop.com.au/guides/what-is-a-wire-tra…
The reality of going cashless . Have your accounts frozen, It happened in Canada. have your funds withdrawn.
It’s almost impossible to operate like that in our almost cashless society…
Surely, there’s better ways to combat such madness ?
Nope, it’s the reason for pushing cashless. Controlling peoples access to money. We just have to try use cash instead of cards. Not tracking of our spending either.
Unrelated trivia, did you know that any Amazon payment method you have saved within Amazon can be used by Amazon to pay for your Amazon purchase irrespective of the method selected at checkout?
I purchased 10 Vacuum cleaners for work, using my work Credit card as payment method. As Amazon bill 10 transactions separately (not 1 transaction for the total), after 3 identical transactions within micro seconds the bank freezes my work card suspecting fraud. Amazon rolls on with the sale by simply billing my personal card about $7k I don’t even realise until a supplementary card holder buys groceries to find our personal card is maxed out. I check my account to see Amazon purchases on the card. I call Amazon and ask them what’s happened. I am told well you agreed to this when you opened your Amazon account, best you check the t’s and c’s of using Amazon.
TLDR moral of the story, don’t leave unnecessary additional cards or payment methods in your Amazon account.
That's dodgy AF
PayPal have been dodgy for many years
Denied my mum a genuine claim of fraud
Had my funds frozen for 6 months, truly bizzare
All those a current affair and today tonight of businesses earning too much and have their funds frozen.
if you say anything online that they disagree with …
So if you want to say something bad, use a fake account?
What alternatives are there for people who don't want to support this sort of fascist behaviour?
Wherever applicable I use apple pay over direct cc or pp. It works well and often do not have to fill in any form details as AP send those info to the merchant.
No you need I'd for a PayPal account.
‘Fascists’ ?? I don’t think soo. We throw that word around soo causally these days
And no-one seems to know what the word means, even the experts.
The original term was the name of Mussolini's political party, so if you are being pedantic you could argue about it's Italian roots. But I think the modern definition (at least since I went to school decades ago) simply refers to a style of one party authoritarian rule. Even if this is not technically accurate, this was pretty much the used definition by everyone ie we called our teachers fascists because they were in charge and we had no choice, Then we called the police fascists for the same reasons etc
Fast forward and it seems like the word has evolved to simply mean 'person I disagree with', which is clearly stupid. 'If you disagree with me you are literally Hitler' etc.
So I still think my definition is more accurate, ie the 1984 style one party authoritarian rule that demands obedient group think under threat of harsh treatment.
This was the trademark of the original Fascists, and of the Nazi's, and seems to be creeping into Silicon Valley.
If you have a different definition then feel free to discuss.
And no-one seems to know what the word means, even the experts.
Yes, interesting topic this one.
Nowadays anything I don't like is "fascism" … LOL
Like: in the name of tolerance we will NOT tolerate dissent !!
Also quickly tried to get the origin of the word but Google insist with the Mussolini & Hitler rhetoric rather than linguistic history.
Somehow, confused and obscure, I have memories of the fascism term originated from "fascia" as a sign of authority, forced or accepted.
Is it so?
Interesting topic.
in the name of tolerance we will NOT tolerate dissent !!
It's the hilarious irony of those antifa idiots who thought the best way to fight their poorly defined version of fascism was to behave exactly like actual fascists.
Silicon Valley is rife with these types of people.
Rick Mayall has much to answer for…oops, too soon.
Both your American nickname and your history refer to fascism as defined by government. Not private industry. For a forum that has largely been espousing the benefits of the free market 'deciding', to pivot in this way, as it continues to 'decide', is really something to behold. I don't really care about Paypal and I think their decision was stupid (and clearly so did they and ultimately the market), but this self-important (and self indulgent) soapboxing about impingement of freedoms and in some way linking it to Orwells novel just makes me weep for the state of the Internet these days.
Don't like it? Don't use it. Worried about overreach? To quote many, many, many Ozbargainers - the market will decide, yay capitalism etc. None of this has interfered with anyones freedom, yet here you are, with walls of text and references to 1984, Nazi Germany, and Mussolini and self-created definitions that are all about you.
but this self-important (and self indulgent) soapboxing about impingement of freedoms and in some way linking it to Orwells novel just makes me weep for the state of the Internet these days.
Imagine posting a self important and self indulgent soapbox post then crying like a baby that someone else is doing exactly the same what you just did. Your post is hilarious.
Trigger warning: Discussion forums contain opinion that might differ from your own. Grab a tissue sweety and learn to deal with life….
Don't like it? Don't use it
Well that was precisely what I plan to do hence the post asking for alternatives. Did you read that part, or did you get so triggered that you never made it my actual question? Or do you think you should decide what other people get to talk about in public spaces? Now that is very 1984…
with walls of text
When one paragraph becomes 'walls of text'! Lol
The trigger factor in you post is off the charts. Zero contribution to the subject, just one giant moan that someone has a different opinion to you and you're not happy about it. The internet weeps for you 🤣🤣🤣
Alternatives depend on how you were using PayPal.
Remembering CC details: Google Pay
Receiving transfers: Cash, PayID
Taking payments for goods/services: Square, Stripe
I stopped using PayPal after a couple of annoying suspensions and for fear of third parties reversing transactions.
what a waste of time discussing t&c's
looks like every other company has so called "ridiculous" t&c's
if you don't like just leave em , oh alternative ? = google, samsung wallet etc etc
Only if you break away from the central accepted consensus they were to dip in to your bank account, with the things happening recently it's quite chilling how companies are trying to control you,
They backflipped on this policy change thankfully but ever since ebay is breaking away from PayPal for ebay sellers i haven't used them, I think that was an equally stupid decision that we all took laying down
& will only get worse with ESG (Environment, Social and Governance)
What about all the people who actually took the jabs,
and wanted to talk about all their experiences about it,
but FB deleted their FB Group (which had over 300k 'followers').
So, those posts on FB was probably classed as "misinformation",
and if they had Paypal accounts, then Paypal might have stepped in too.
The sheer gall of threatening to charge you a fine of 2,500 USD (per violation mind you) is unbelievable.
How would they even operate such a scheme? Do they have staff whose job it is to surveil you and decide if you deserve to have all your funds liquidated?
How would they even operate such a scheme?
They don't.
Do they have staff whose job it is to surveil you and decide if you deserve to have all your funds liquidated?
An investment with uncertain payback
Sounds more like a rogue employee who thinks they are doing god's work.
It is like Telstra setting up on online social media moderation department and trying to match user information with their mobile accounts to levy a charge.
Main reason I've used PayPal in recent years was for refunded returns. Since that's going away, I can't really see a reason to use them over payment services. This isn't the early 2000s, PayPals service isn't as unique and beneficial as it once was.
Surely this isn't the straw that broke the camel's back.
I left them a decade or more ago because of the Julian Assange and wikileaks debacle.
Oh yes, that forgotten patriot.
Betrayed by everyone on the left as well as on the right because they are all complicit.
GabPay: The Paypal Alternative
"In October of 2018 Gab was banned from Paypal. The email we received from PayPal said that the company had made the decision as part of its “right to terminate your account for any reason and at any time upon notice to you.” Just like that a major source of our revenue was cut off from our business. From that moment forward we decided that we would never allow something like this to happen again. Not to Gab and not to anyone else who shares our values. We were going to build our own…"
https://news.gab.com/2022/10/gabpay-the-paypal-alternative/
Boycotting PayPal for something they didn’t do seems like the height of cancel culture.
nah…not even close
Boycotting PayPal for something they didn’t do
God I hope you're trolling. You can't be that daft right?
PayPal wants too much personal information. Absolutely ridiculous company.
You can insert anything into your T&Cs but you can't charge people for no service. Optus can insert they will fine you for saying stuff online they disagree with but under what law are they allow to do so? Paypal is a payment service provider, they can charge you fees in connection to service provided long as you agree and it is allowed by local laws.
Probably some rogue employee who actually thinks they are doing god's work.
Pretty easy to not fall afoul of a misinformation policy; don't spread misinformation on an account that can be linked to a paypal identity. Not exactly hard but also irrelevant as Paypal walked back the policy.
I don't really have an interest in spreading propaganda, disinformation or misinformation for some entity… and it's really telling as to the type of people which are speaking against this policy. Did you know that Paypal will also close your account and bar you from touching the money in the account if they decide you're using the account for anything 'adult' related?
What about all the people who actually took the jabs,
and wanted to talk about all their experiences about it,
but FB deleted their FB Group (which had over 300k 'followers').
So, those posts on FB was probably classed as "misinformation",
and if they had Paypal accounts, then Paypal might have stepped in too.
cant wait to delete my account as soon as possible….
Hahahahahah good luck pulling that in Australia. I welcome them to try it.
PayPal is super convenient, makes it easy to pay with a single click on so many platforms, rather then entering and storing my credit card details on all sorts of random sites, however strange policies like this make you seriously consider not engaging them anymore
What were you using PayPal for?
If you collect payments from other people, then Stripe seems like a decent alternative.
If you're using it to send money, then do it via bank deposit.
sounds reliable
✡️✡️✡️✡️✡️✡️✡️
Why don't cooperations spend 2500 USD for a fund to support their "correct information" whenever they see "misinformation" instead of fining people ? Just stupid and greed.
PP froze my accounts without reason and I had to go to the Ombudsman to get them to unfreeze them. Never again will I trust this company.
lIteRALly HitLeR!!1
So far Paypal 0 customers 1 great stuff, and if somehow they put in their TOC I'll be the second to move out.
So I bought a Pay Pal reader 4 years ago.
Been listening to 100s of ours of sweet talk that they will eventually activate it.
But they just never did.
At least one operator in the Philippines agreed that data stealing is mandatory! I got a bad flag for bringing a huge American fraudster to justice. So no reader activation.
So I bought 5 small faulty items on ebay and got money back on all of them.
But on the 6th just plain silence. Debt collector notice, same firm buying tainted property again. Ooooopsy…
Zip wanted money for nothing,
Afterpay works fine.
watch redacted on youtube !
paypal is acting exactly as the left wing it supports always acts.
I use Pay in 4 quite often now. I think it's great.
No interest, and no late fees (I think…).
Because of fees and exploitation of poor ppl……I avoid zip, afterpay and latitude (actually I have closed my latitude after the Harvey Norman stuff).
I also like how I can avoid PayPals international currency conversions by choosing in PayPal to use my citibank plus account.
I must be left wing.
FYI: The fine is back, or should I say, it was always there in the AUP.
Surely it must be another mistake 😂 Maybe it's a response to Elon taking over Twitter https://gab.com/sethdillon/posts/109245383554164785
Can't find the USD $2,500 fee or equivalent in the user agreement for Australia
Not sure if its new or not, but it does state.
You may not use PayPal's services for activities that:
involve the sending, posting or publication of any messages, content or materials that, in PayPal’s sole discretion, (a) are harmful, obscene, harassing or objectionable, (b) depict or appear to depict nudity, sexual or other intimate activities, (c) depict or promote illegal drug use, (d) depict or promote violence, criminal activity, cruelty or self-harm (e) depict, promote or incite hatred or discrimination of protected groups or of individuals or groups based on protected characteristics (e.g. race, religion, gender or gender identity, sexual orientation etc.) **(f) presents a risk to consumer safety or (financial) wellbeing, (g) are fraudulent, **promote misinformation or are unlawful, (h) infringes the intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights of any party or (i) are otherwise unfit for publication.
emphasis added
One of the actions they may take is
Hold your PayPal balance for up to 180 days if reasonably needed to protect
against the risk of liability or if you have violated our Acceptable Use Policy.
Hopefully GabPay or ParallelEconomy will come to Australia soon.
I used PayPal a LOT over 15 years, this year I sold my wedding dress for $2k to someone in the US.
PayPal banned me for life as it appeared fraudulent and withheld the $2k for 6 months. I only just received it.
There is no way to dispute this blanket ban… PayPal can be a real pain the arse