Have We Reached The Point Where Apple Haters Are Worse than Apple Fanboys?

ihfree on 27/08/2022 - 23:27
Last edited 28/08/2022 - 22:12

From looking at recent posts on Apple products, there is a group of users who seem to be desperate to bash Apple rather than providing helpful information.

From a few recent posts:

  • Apple silicon is an ASIC(Application-specific integrated circuit)
  • Attacking the Mac mini for not coming with a keyboard or screen
  • Saying macs are rip-offs or there are cheaper equivalent products and:
    • Unable to provide a alternative
    • Providing a budget laptop with a power hungry CPU, 45% NTSC screen dull screen, etc
  • Attacks on price

Apple fanboys used to get a bad rap on the internet for eating up Apple's marketing. One area where this is common is users who think RAM is magic on Apple silicon.

Edit: Thanks for all the responses, negs, and provision of data for me to work with. No real surprises but some interesting discussion.

In hindsight, this post isn’t worded the best and possibly warrants a second topic on what exactly is a bargain.

The users i’m talking about are a small subset of users:

  • Haters - spread negative misinformation/bashing product with no real basis
  • Fanbois - spread positive misinformation

My interest is purely in trends and one which I feel has reversed.

I’m also enjoying the drama on the Peak Design backpack thread. I think some of the users there have better articulated what I hoped to achieve. Maybe there is a wider topic here on what exactly is a bargain.

Computing Apple

Comments

  • Nutrino on 27/08/2022 - 23:36
    +77

    Dont lose any sleep….

      • SF3 on 28/08/2022 - 08:13
        +17

        Seems rather ironic with your reply and your goal in the post.

      • timthetoolman on 28/08/2022 - 10:09
        +9

        Cold drink surcharge fanboy

  • CyberMurning on 27/08/2022 - 23:41
    +7

    Lets camp for iphone 17….

  • brendanm on 27/08/2022 - 23:43
    +90

    Who gives a shit what anyone else thinks about random electronic products you may or not own.

    • GordonD on 28/08/2022 - 07:58
      +15

      When people buy something with a particular brand on it at least in part to get approval - like Apple and Tesla buyers - THEY get really upset when people laugh at them for doing it.

      People buying it because of its technical merits or because its does the job they need done at a price that they're happy to pay to get that job done don't care.

      • GrueHunter on 28/08/2022 - 10:20
        +3

        Glad to see you speaking out about the #pcmasterrace crowd

        • Diji on 29/08/2022 - 23:49
          +2

          The PC master race lot aren't really about brand loyalty and rather are into denigrating people who use things that they deem to be inferior. There are loads of fanatics for Nvidia, AMD, and Intel, though.

      • brendanm on 29/08/2022 - 11:06
        +3

        They are only a grand or so for an iphone.

      • dealsucker on 29/08/2022 - 11:07
        +8

        You dont speak for all of us. Perhaps you are speaking out of your own insecurity.

      • webtonmoy on 29/08/2022 - 12:30
        +5

        "Nobody buys Apple products for technological reasons, but because of the social status they imbue the owner with." - Not really.

        • Chiang on 29/08/2022 - 17:11
          +2

          Tempted to agree but if you look, all the design changes of each gen are on the back with a view to making it clear that you have the latest model when up to your ear of facing out into the world when used in your hand on say a bus. Many refuse to use a case lest it hide the new "5 lens" arrangement of the current model. Heck, some even place them, no case, screen down on a table. Then you have people who only use phone and text but demand the latest iPhone at $1300.

          I am not saying all. But there are some.

          • Maximum64 on 30/08/2022 - 23:20

            @Chiang: Have you actually even thought through how illogical your comments are before you posted? The front of pretty much all phones these days are just a black sheet of glass, so how much change do you honestly expect on the front between generations?

            As for cameras, of course they will change as they improve, it's inevitably unavoidable. Apple don't make their own sensors but use a variety of sources which change over time, so they will naturally change dimensions over the years, especially as sensors increase in size. The result of this is the rear will be what changes the most, just like pretty much ALL other phones, it's not just iPhones.

            Every case I've ever seen leaves the lenses exposed so you can actually … (gasp) USE the cameras, so your claim that people don't use cases because they hide the lenses is just laughable at best. Cases don't hide the lenses. Everyone I know either uses a case or a skin with a screen protector, not naked like you claim. I prefer a case for the protection, but have you ever held a phone both in and then out of a case? So much nicer with no case, so I can understand why some take the risk. It has absolutely nothing to do with displaying the lenses.

            As for screen down on a table, that's not to show off the lenses but to protect them. Cases usually have a slight lip around the front edge so when you place it screen down, the edge of the case keeps the screen off the table, unscathed, or people use screen protectors so it doesn't matter. But because the lenses protrude from the rear, if you place it rear down you risk scratching a lens, plus it doesn't lie flat. Better to scratch a replaceable screen protector than permanantly damage a camera lens. It has nothing to do with vanity.

            Don't disagree with your comment about people spending big amounts to simply text, lots certainly do, but it's THEIR money so why should you care what they spend it on? Most people have a vice of some sort or another they like to spend disposable income on, whether it's cigarettes, booze, technology, dining out, a hobby, whatever. I can guarantee, it has absolutely no affect on you.

            Sounds to me as though you like to twist a simple logical reality into something much bigger so you can project your warped narrative on things. None of your assessment is even remotely true … ironically just like the scenario OP is talking about. Absolutely no cares what hardware you use or prefer, I have both Macs and Windows machines plus iOS and Android phones and tablets, but if you're going to make an argument at least use valid claims.

            • Chiang on 31/08/2022 - 16:13

              @Maximum64: Haha. This really hit a nerve. I have all sorts of gear in my house as well.

              If you look at the 13 there are three lenses for the pro and two for the standard model. Wouldn't it be easier to have one model in production or do you reckon the driver is the identifiable "I paid for the pro" visible cred.
              If maybe not the lenses the case would obstruct the (I like the sleekness) whopping great reflective logo on the back. The case thing annoys me because I haven neices and nephews getting around with cracked screens on $1k phones they won't fix anymore because of the repair price but refuse to use $10 cases. I might sound judgmental but it is so ratchet looking. Probably because they think it would make them feel old (but not broke) like me. That and being on 5% charge and bludging a charge on ANYTHING compatable or not (co-workers). $1k on a phone with a busted screen but not $25 on a comparable charger? Or a non busted lead?

              Don't get me wrong some of their gear and software is lovely to use. But some of it is overpriced "tickets" to fit in. Even Buffet noted this "moat' with his grandkids before he invested. "Would you take a thousand dollars cash AND a free Android phone to swap?" and many said no. Then the memory ransom pricing drives me mad. One family member had the new phone all excited about the new high res slo mo abilities. Two videos and it was full. Res to memory ratio of a cube. The third dimension being a hand out for an upgrade. Next model up was how much just for the memory upgrade? It feels like the most expensive memory that exists sits within Apple products as marginal upgrades. And you get the slimy sales hit for it with your kids juuuuuust right there.

              For adults though I agree it is their money.

              • Maximum64 on 31/08/2022 - 21:19

                @Chiang: Nah, not hit a nerve per se, no cares at all which side you prefer or even if you're agnostic. It's just that the examples you used were exactly what OP was on about and poor stretches of the imagination.

                Agree though about kids not using a case and having shattered backs, but that's certainly not exclusive to Apple, seen plenty of Androids in a similar state. I reckon it's more that the iPhones are more easily recognisable vs the others. I also think it's more indicative of the generally easy times we've had for many years and kids being given whatever they want, and having no cares for looking after stuff. Wonder if the next few years of interest rate rises and so on will see parents starting to tighten up on the "disposable income" and teaching kids to take more care of their stuff?

                Also agree with some of their stuff being stupid prices (I mean, really, $1049 for a set of castor wheels for your Mac Pro, or $1699 for a monitor stand!?), while others are quite realistic for their tech and build. Certainly plenty to not like about the company.

      • redfox1200 on 29/08/2022 - 13:24
        +9

        I bought my MacBook because of the great screen and battery life not because it's a luxury item.

      • digitalbath on 29/08/2022 - 22:05
        +8

        People who hate on people for buying certain products are worse and more self conscious than people who buy products for their social status. Both sad in my opinion.

        Buy what you want and don’t give a crap what anyone else thinks and you’ll be a lot less bitter.

      • thrillhouse on 30/08/2022 - 07:49
        +1

        This couldn't be any more of a generalisation, wow.

      • Wasabi Ninja on 30/08/2022 - 09:15

        Fun to see your thoughts validated. Oh wait…

      • no not me on 30/08/2022 - 09:39

        Of course, the majority of good companies buy their software engineers MacBooks for the perceieved luxury. Where do I collect my Hermes bag and LV scarf? /s

        Even in companies where 99% of employees have Dells/HPs (Big 4 banks, insurance, etc.), software engineers use MacBooks, why do you think that is? Hilariously, your argument often comes from people who mainly use their PCs to play video games.

    • idonotknowwhy on 30/08/2022 - 11:22

      This guy cared so much he was willing to kill his friend over it
      https://www.pcgamer.com/russian-man-convicted-of-murder-afte…

  • tallkid123 on 27/08/2022 - 23:44
    +8

    I genuinely don't care what team people barrack for.

    And I say this because the title of this post is Haters vs Fanboys as opposed to Apple vs Everyone Else.

      • tallkid123 on 27/08/2022 - 23:52
        +6

        To be honest, I don't have an issue with your post itself. It's just your title.

        I'll even respond to your topic.

        I used an iPhone my wife bought me from 2013-2017. I didn't really like using it that much due to the App Store restrictions so I switched to Android afterwards.

        The end.

        • ihfree on 28/08/2022 - 00:39
          -2

          Agreed, I get what you mean - wording could be better.

      • gadget on 29/08/2022 - 12:59

        Well the simple solution to your problem is don't read the comments. If the bargain is of interest to you, why would you need any validation? After all once you are aware of the bargain it's not that hard to do a search to confirm if it's really a bargain.

        • ihfree on 29/08/2022 - 13:11

          You could make exactly the same argument for the forum and specifically this post. Half the posters here don't seem to be aware of their role in pushing this forum post.

          I think the comment section is quite useful in assessing a bargain. I often try and provide help as well.

          I appreciate quality comments here and have found the comment section useful on countless occasions. I am not a fan of what is spam or misinformation. This post is just asking for other user's observations on the topic.

  • hotdog85 on 27/08/2022 - 23:51
    +7

    Reminds me of people at school arguing about Xbox vs PlayStation back in the day. Except these are grown men

    • ihfree on 27/08/2022 - 23:52
      +2

      It did recently come out that MS encouraged the console wars

      https://www.eurogamer.net/xbox-encouraged-console-wars-to-dr…

      Fans and haters play their part for marketers whether they're aware of it or not.

    • franco cozzo on 28/08/2022 - 07:06

      lol! and theyre spending thousands instead of hundreds on their electronic trinkets

    • Minimum chips on 29/08/2022 - 00:13
      +1

      Well don't assume they're actually grown men. The trolls or stupid-and-passionate ones are often young people. It used to be easier to tell on the internet, but now grandpa uses emoticons and everyone has spellcheck.

    • tallkid123 on 29/08/2022 - 10:09

      In my teens, I used to write on gaming forums that anyone who is arguing for either side was too poor to afford both consoles.

      What I always left out however was that the only reason I had both consoles was because my girlfriend (now wife) bought me my first Xbox 360.

    • Chiang on 31/08/2022 - 17:30

      Those men now have long beards and argue about Weber Q versus Ziggy.

      They agree you can smoke with charcoal on anything.you want but for a quick gas cook the debate between these two camps is Holden vs Ford level from the 80's.

  • bobbified on 27/08/2022 - 23:54
    +7

    …bash Apple rather than providing helpful information.

    "Apple is a ripoff!"

    I would argue that is pretty helpful information!

    Just buy what you like… lol

  • pegaxs on 27/08/2022 - 23:59
    +9

    Nope. But at least Apple fanbois are one rung up on Tesla fanbois.

    • Mr Haj on 29/08/2022 - 16:33
      +1

      They're the same people.

      • meatgasm on 31/08/2022 - 03:37
        +1

        Oh man, just wait for the fanboys when Apple announces its EV.

        • Anvariel on 31/08/2022 - 13:44

          their heads will explode as they try and figure out if they should ditch the telsa for an apple ev.

    • Chiang on 31/08/2022 - 17:31

      Read that as Telstra lol.

  • Hybroid on 28/08/2022 - 00:08
    +10

    "Apple Fanboys and Apple Haters" have always existed and always will.

    On a "bargain" site, it's more vocally pronounced in favour of one group that doesn't see value in premium products and just want bottom bang for buck.

    Unless it's a $1,500 vacuum cleaner.

  • SF3 on 28/08/2022 - 00:29
    +2

    Welcome to the internet in a public area and you don’t have to show your real name.

    • franco cozzo on 28/08/2022 - 07:07
      +6

      ….wont someone please think of the tecnology corporations!!!

      • ihfree on 28/08/2022 - 15:38
        -3

        You're missing the point…

        There's plenty of actions/behaviours from all major tech that could be called out without resorting to misinformation.

  • try2bhelpful on 28/08/2022 - 00:54
    +1

    Honestly I don’t care. I have Apple products and I don’t feel the need to justify my actions. It is a tad sad we seem to have a bunch of immature contributors but some of them have much more worrying traits than just sticking their tongues out at what other people spend their money on.

  • Guybrush57 on 28/08/2022 - 01:06
    +8

    Attacks on price

    I agree. Nobody should be attacking Apple on price. We should all be advocating for even more ludicrously high prices.

    • GrueHunter on 28/08/2022 - 10:13
      +3

      I guess you got your wish in the $2,499 Galaxy Z Fold

      Enjoy

      • Chmmr on 30/08/2022 - 06:08

        Not if you've got someone with a .edu email. Working at a high school, I was lucky enough to get the Fold 2 for $1600 with education discounts.

  • sharkyoz on 28/08/2022 - 01:14
    +7

    an Apple a day keeps the doctor away, esp when its a macbook thrown at his head

    • ihfree on 28/08/2022 - 15:39

      A Dell refurb would surely be more economical for that particular use case.

      • sackrace on 29/08/2022 - 06:33
        +2

        A thinkbook would only need to be thrown once.

        • Chiang on 31/08/2022 - 17:33

          Thunk! book

  • Axelstrife on 28/08/2022 - 02:00
    +2

    No matter what it is, Phones, Consoles, Cars etc.. the same thing happens for everything.
    it's best to ignore it cause its not going anywhere.

  • bazingaa on 28/08/2022 - 02:45

    meow!

  • garetz on 28/08/2022 - 04:44
    +1

    It is not possible now, it wasnt possible back then, and not possible in the future.

  • franco cozzo on 28/08/2022 - 05:13
    +12

    nah…. apple lovers are still dorks and worthy of ridicule

      • franco cozzo on 28/08/2022 - 06:45
        -2

        77% of recent NSW 'covid deaths' were triple vaccinated…wheres the 'math'??

        • ihfree on 28/08/2022 - 06:53
          -2

          This is off topic and the topic is done to death. TLDR from a previous conversation:

          85% of deaths come from 96.9% of the population and 15% of deaths come from 3.1% of the population.

          Article on the topic: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-21/third-of-victorias-20…

          • franco cozzo on 28/08/2022 - 06:58
            -3

            @ihfree: links to an article on victoria stats….lol
            stalking my profile & posts for anything else creep?

            • ihfree on 28/08/2022 - 06:59
              -1

              @franco cozzo: Yeah? Stats are from NSW btw. You'll see the same thing in all the states.

              • franco cozzo on 28/08/2022 - 07:00
                -2

                @ihfree: you dont even know what or why youre upset with me now….do you? lol

                • ihfree on 28/08/2022 - 07:01

                  @franco cozzo: Hey, they're numbers. If you don't have a rational reply, take a valium.

                  • franco cozzo on 28/08/2022 - 07:01

                    @ihfree: this is a thread about apple users….lol

                    • ihfree on 28/08/2022 - 07:03
                      -1

                      @franco cozzo: Nice deflection.

                      This is a thread about Apple haters being unable to articulate anything meaningful.

                      We can end the conversation here as it's off topic anyway.

      • lookingforTV on 28/08/2022 - 11:03
        +14

        Dude, you are literally going through someone else's comment history to defend your position.. that makes you seem like an triggered Apple fan boy and this post is not so neutral at all lol

        • ihfree on 28/08/2022 - 16:16
          -8

          Publically accessible information, brah. Fascinating stuff - I always give the profile of someone I'm replying to a quick look over.

          I'm kind of tempted to build a tool to start scrapping Ozbargain. It would be a fascinating data set to play with.

        • gadget on 29/08/2022 - 13:03
          +1

          TBH sounds to me OP is trolling. Anyway I skimmed down half a page and not going to waste anymore of my time on this thread by not looking at actual bargains. Bye!

      • Jaysful on 31/08/2022 - 09:09

        Did..did you just construct a strawman? That's can't be healthy.

  • Nubbin on 28/08/2022 - 05:47
    +13

    People are criticizing Apple? How distressing.

    Meanwhile, OzBargain is a consumer-centered community and anyone who would advocate for consumers is not going to respond favorably to many of Apple's business practices. Corporations are always pushing the limits of what the market will bear. I think it benefits everyone for the marketplace to be as vocal and discerning as possible.

      • Nubbin on 28/08/2022 - 07:33
        +29

        After researching ipads for less than a week, here are some reasons Apple deserve to be on the shitlist:

        Throttling hardware and software - On devices with 8 or 16gb of RAM, invoking a 5gb limit for '3rd party' apps. Deliberately gimping memory to drive customers to upgrade i.e. 64gb base on iPad air with no 128gb option, it skips to 256 so that consumers are forced into the iPad Pro price bracket. Lacking adequate software support for external drives and no sd expansion slots strengthens the trap.

        iPad OS having limited feature set so as not to cannibalize Macbook sales. Even though iPad have the same CPUs as Macbooks, the OS limits multitasking and other basic features. The ipad doesn't even come with a calculator app because the engineers haven't found a way to make it more unique to the iPad 'ecosystem'. They'd leave out basic functionality in service of their business goals.

        Apple have gone to inhuman lengths to make their devices unrepairable. Even if you have the correct replacement part there are serial numbers encoded into the hardware that allows the device to reject parts, like transplanting an organ with the wrong blood type. iPads are glued shut to make replacing even simple parts like charging ports more difficult. The Apple pencil has a completely sealed design containing a tiny battery that runs down fast and racks up charging cycles more quickly. Users have reported that the pencil can't be revived if it's allowed to go fully flat, i.e. you don't charge it for two weeks.

        Apple also have a system that declares devices 'stolen' and locks them permanently if the previous owner doesn't disconnect their apple account from the device. This has created literal mountains of perfectly usable devices that are bricked by software.

        Pricing IS ridiculous in general, but iPad accessories are especially egregious i.e. Apple pencil $200, iPad Magic Keyboard $450 - bruh it a crappy plastic mini keyboard. Also the fact that memory upgrades can basically double the cost of the device is part of their pricing shell game.

        I think iPads are better than the competitors in many ways. I want to get one, but their business ethics cannot be encouraged.

        • RMBC on 28/08/2022 - 09:38
          +1

          You can also add the nonsense backup to icloud with no visibility over, or ability to control, what actually goes into it, combined with only 5GB of backup

        • mooney on 28/08/2022 - 10:10
          +3

          I think it’s fair to criticise Apple for many products and pricing but the iPad is for sure the hardest to criticise.

          The entry level iPad is great value for money. Does everything the other iPads can do. Your criticism of accessories misses the point that there is a huge 3rd party ecosystem meaning you don’t need to buy Apple variants.

          The repair issue isn’t unique to Apple, trying to fix a Samsung device would run similar issues, the difference is the after sales service from Apple which I’ve always found to be best in market.

          Your criticism seems more focussed on iPad Pro (with M1 chip) there I think it’s fairer, it’s not really a ‘pro’ device in terms of work you’re able to achieve but it’s just nice hardware for those who are happy to spend the money. Should be called iPad Luxe or something, it’s definitely limited for professional use.

          • n3ck3ntry8bort0rgasm on 28/08/2022 - 17:03
            +2

            @mooney: "The entry level iPad is great value for money."

            I agree. I got the most recent "budget iPad" and it does everything I need it to. From web surfing to youtube/video consumption, to editing photos, editing video and exporting (encoding) it has been speedy and I could not ask it to be any better.

            One more device I think it worth mentioning is the Apple TV which I also think it is great value (when on sale). Does everything it is supposed to very well and I am pretty sure I am not the only one who has this opinion.

        • ProlapsedHeinous on 28/08/2022 - 20:42

          Not to mention making repairs so expensive if they are available, it forces people to just buy a new device instead of being more environmentally reponsible.

        • ihfree on 28/08/2022 - 21:19
          -4

          Valid concerns and a much more useful post than the ones I am being critical of.

          Agreed regarding the iPad air capacity. Once you move beyond the base model iPad, there is a strong push toward the higher end of the line up.

          Pricing IS ridiculous in general, but iPad accessories are especially egregious

          You do have third party accessories(keyboard/stylus) available for the iPad, so I don’t think this is a big issue. You can also use the standard magic keyboard if you want something cheaper.

          iCloud lock

          Positive and a negative - makes Apple devices less appealing to steal but this isn’t great for reuse.

          I think iPads are better than the competitors in many ways.

          I would tend to agree with this. Sadly Qualcomm haven’t kept up and there isn’t interest from developers in releasing tablet focused apps on Android.

        • eagerfisherman on 29/08/2022 - 12:31
          +1

          The vast majority of used Apple devices, given away, resold whatever, are going to be factory reset before being passed on, which deactivates iCloud lock as one of the steps.

          What's the scenario at play here creating these "mountains"? Most people will want their legitimately stolen/lost devices permanently bricked.

          This is gonna be an absolutely tiny percentage of devices that meet this made-up scenario.

    • smartazz104 on 28/08/2022 - 07:08

      The “haters” aren’t advocating for consumers, they just want to make their bias known. If they actually cared about consumers they wouldn’t be buying a damn thing and would go live in a cave.

      • Nubbin on 28/08/2022 - 07:42
        +4

        The haters ARE consumers. If a company has so many haters it means they have angered consumers. Finding out that there are unhappy consumers is beneficial when making purchasing decisions - that's why people at customer reviews and ratings, that's why people come to ozb to see what others say.

      • 7ekn00 on 28/08/2022 - 11:30

        Actual "consumers" wouldn't support a hardware company (Apple) that maintains a 30% profit margin on hardware ;)

        All other consumer electronic companies struggle to maintain 10% margins :P

        Bottom line, consumers get better value from Apple stocks than products!

        I love Apple products and fanbois, they make me a fortune ;)

  • ShannonN on 28/08/2022 - 06:59
    +1

    I don't care I have both an old 2014 Imac and modern wintel system plus a wifi only ipad all work and do what they are designed for.

    I choose to use android for phones and android for TV, its what works for me, would I like the latest and greatest apple laptop?

    Yes why not as long as somebody else paid for it, would I use it anywhere near to its potential no way, but I then could look cool lugging it to cafes, its a step up in cool from a mediocre iPad :)

  • bobbieb on 28/08/2022 - 07:34
    +1

    Insecure, petty, materialistic, FOMO… these debates are more likely to be grounded there, than in the real-world concerns.

    Buy/do whatever works for you. Why do you care what others do?

    It's strange… if people would just ask themselves that question, so many of the world's issues would go away.

  • tabitha731 on 28/08/2022 - 07:37
    +5

    Only Apple owners are the ones who get up into such a hissy fit if they haven’t converted another person yo be an Apple-believer., and as such only Apple users/ zombies, are the ones who get offended by negativity against Apple products. Non Apple users prefer to actually use their commonsense & energy towards bigger & more important things in life

    • ihfree on 28/08/2022 - 07:45
      -3

      ^ prime example of such a comment

    • smartazz104 on 28/08/2022 - 12:35
      +6

      Then why do “non-Apple” users always feel like they need to make their opinion known in any Apple-related post? Please provide an example of any pro-Apple comment on any Android phone deal…

  • TilacVIP on 28/08/2022 - 07:59
    +3

    Apple products. Fool's and thier money parted.

    Apple haters, nah!!!!

    • ihfree on 28/08/2022 - 08:00
      -3

      ^ another example

    • GrueHunter on 28/08/2022 - 10:14

      Do Android phones not come with spell check?

      • ihfree on 28/08/2022 - 15:42

        They do. This is a case of PEBKAC/a DFU or whatever the phone equivalent is.

  • vinni9284 on 28/08/2022 - 08:09

    I love both Apples and Androids, like Holdens and Fords :P

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