Tesla Charging - Electricians Please Help

Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 17:00

I’m expecting delivery of my first electric car soon (very excited). I’m trying to organise a charging solution that will be compatible for charging both at home and the office (2 places I spend most of my life). Unfortunately my home is only setup with single phase power and the only power in the car park at my office is a 500v 5 pin 3 phase plug.

Can I install a 500v 5 pin 3 phase socket at home and have it wired for single phase? This way I’ll only need the 1 adapter to charge at home and work.

Alternatively is there a plug that is compatible with both single phase and 3 phase?

I’d appreciate any advice on the matter :)

Electrical & Electronics Tesla Inc

Comments

  • askbargain on 07/08/2022 - 17:01
    +3

    2 places I spend most of my life

    Where does your car spend most of its life at?

  • JimmyF on 07/08/2022 - 17:23
    +1

    2 places I spend most of my life

    How far is the drive between the two? No point in having a charger at each location if only driving 40 kms a day. Even the granny charger would be fine for this distance.

    • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 17:40

      Honestly my home and work are no more than 30 minutes from each other. I’m sure either location will be fine I was just hopeful I could have some flexibility between the 2 without needing to switch plugs.

      Being my first EV I’m really not sure what to expect.

  • AndyC1 on 07/08/2022 - 17:26
    -4

    What did Tesla say when you asked them what chargers they can supply to meet your requirements?

    • askbargain on 07/08/2022 - 17:38
      +7

      They said to post on OzBargain. I am posting here now.

      • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 17:42

        Haha 😂… I had a very brief conversation with the salesman when I did my test drive and basically he just wanted to sell a wall charger. He didn’t know the difference between single phase and 3 phase so I didn’t bother asking anymore.

    • pharkurnell on 07/08/2022 - 17:51

      salesman would have just said sign here and go away…

  • SBOB on 07/08/2022 - 17:42
    +3

    Can I install a 500v 5 pin 3 phase socket at home and have it wired for single phase

    No, single phase means 240v, single phase supply

    Even a 3 phase system is only 415v (the outlet will be rated to 500v, but it won't be 500v).

    • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 17:44

      Damn!! Thought that might be the case. So definitely no way to adapt (step down) a 3 phase socket for a single phase plug?

      • SBOB on 07/08/2022 - 17:47

        You definitely can get 3 phase to single phase adapters, but that would seem to defeat the purpose of charging from a higher voltage/power outlet source :)

        • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 17:48

          Nah I don’t care about speed… would rather have the flexibility to charge at both locations. I’ll be at work for 10 hours a day anyway so a slow charge suits me well.

          • SBOB on 07/08/2022 - 17:53

            @Gatto: So your aim is to just buy one cable?

            Not a tesla expert but isn't if just something like this I assume allows you to use the standard lower voltage charger cabling?
            https://braumach.com.au/products/copy-of-tesla-model-3-y-32a…

            • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 17:59

              @SBOB: Yep that’s the exact adaptor I was looking at but it says 3 phase. Can I wire a socket at my house (single phase) that will accept that same plug?

              • SBOB on 07/08/2022 - 18:44

                @Gatto: No, but I expect the standard 1 phase cable from Tesla fits a normal 240v socket and this one just allows it to use the 3 phase one.
                (Again, not a tesla expert :) )

          • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2022 - 19:53

            @Gatto: do any of your colleagues have an electric car? it wasn't clear from your post if there is more than one charging station at your work, but you might not be able to hog it for 10 hours a day if it can charge faster without an adapter, as your colleagues may complain

            • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 20:08

              @[Deactivated]: Nah I’m the Guinea Pig at my work… there isn’t even a dedicated EV charger, just a 3 phase socket in the car park which probably hasn’t been used in years. Don’t even know when it was originally for, but the boss said he is happy with me steal juice.

        • Kiro on 11/08/2022 - 09:22
          +1

          these adapters are illegal in australia, you cannot have a lead that changes the config like that.

          you can change the CB at the DB and install the correctly rated outlet as required, there are more expensive ways which involve astep down transformer from 415 to 240 volts but yeah the cost are high.

          • SBOB on 11/08/2022 - 10:15

            @Kiro:

            these adapters are illegal in australia, you cannot have a lead that changes the config like that.

            link to backup such 'illegality'?
            You're claiming you cant have a cable that goes from a 3 phase - 4 pole 415V outlet to power a 240V device?

            • Kiro on 11/08/2022 - 10:58

              @SBOB: yes, im a sparky. been a sparky for 20+ years and they are illegal. AS300 will be your best source for the information.
              The 415v 4 pole outlet will be supplied by a 3 pole 3 phase circuit breaker, this circuit breaker will be rated at XXAmps but with a XX fault current rating, these ratings are calculated and designed around 415v supply.
              if you convert or make an adapter to convert 3 phase to single phase you are effectivly changing the charecteristics of the potential fault and fault rating thus the 3 phase CB is not designed for.

              • SBOB on 11/08/2022 - 12:04

                @Kiro: but that adapter cable doesn't actually "convert" it to single phase supply source, its just saying its only utilising one of the the three phases for its charging current. I dont see how it would not comply with AS300 or impact the rating or fault current of the supply to each phase.
                Its also showing a 4 pole outlet indicating it has a neutral wired, and therefore the load doesnt need to be a balance load.
                (though not a tesla owner, so a tesla owner should do their own due diligence anyway)

                Can also easily find 3 phase devices designed to supply single phase 240v supplied, containing their own CBs for example, which are also not 'illegal'
                e.g.
                https://eectech.com.au/Powerboard-20-Amp-3-phase-supply-with….

            • JIMB0 on 12/08/2022 - 07:44

              @SBOB: No one will test and tag a lead that goes direct from a 3 phase plug to 240v.

    • timthetoolman on 07/08/2022 - 19:33
      +1

      Yes and no. 415v is between phases and it sounds like OP is suggested leaving out the other two (blue and white) phases, so it'd only be single phase in a 3 phase pin, so 240v

      I think it would come down to the mechanics inside of the car as to what connects to what, but I wouldn't risk it either way.

      • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 19:58

        That was exactly my thought initially… wasn’t sure if it was just as easy as not wiring some of the pins on a 3 phase socket. I prefer this option because it will allow me to charge from the full 3 phase power at work. Alternatively people below have suggested converting the 3 phase power at work which would also suit my needs (albeit at a slower speed). I just want the same plug at home and work for ease of use.

        • trapper on 08/08/2022 - 23:37

          Eight hours plugged in at work every day is going to be more than enough even on a single phase.

          Even if you're running low Monday morning after a long weekend trip, it will only take a couple days to get you back to full. What's the rush.

      • Kiro on 11/08/2022 - 10:05

        you will need to supplly a neutral cable for the installation of the 3 phase and single phase power supplies.

        the outlets are designed specifically for their voltage and current ratings, these should not be mixed as the physical design and markings are their to identify the voltage and current rating of the outlet or plug.

        if you intend on having a charging outlet at home and work, do the right thing and get the correct equipment installed.

  • pegaxs on 07/08/2022 - 17:43
    +2

    At work install a 3 phase 22kW charger, at home, install a 7kW single phase charger.

    Alternative is, see if there is 3 phase in your street and have it run up to the house and get the 3 phase charger at the house.

    • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 17:46

      My work is generous enough to let me use their power… I don’t think they will allow me to install my own equipment there 😂… worth a shot I guess

      • pegaxs on 07/08/2022 - 17:52

        Then I don’t get what you are asking? Are you asking about portable chargers? Most of them are only about 2.2kW and are single phase. If that is what you are asking, just buy a converter box to plug into a 3 phase outlet at work to turn it back to single phase. Use that at work and use your normal outlet at home and just use the same charging cable in both places.

        • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 17:56

          I think you answered answer my question above. Basically I want to use the supplied charger with the car at work and at home but only have access to a 500v 3 phase socket at work… no 3 phase at home. I didn’t know you could convert 3 phase to single phase.

          • pegaxs on 07/08/2022 - 18:00
            +2

            @Gatto: You can use something like this to convert a 3 phase outlet back to single phase.

            • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 18:03

              @pegaxs: Problem solved!! Thank you

              • pegaxs on 07/08/2022 - 18:04

                @Gatto: The other option would be to just buy a charge cable to leave at work that would connect directly to the 3 phase outlet. Something like this

                • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 18:07

                  @pegaxs: $1400!! Isn’t this OzBargain… you should have your membership revoked 😂

                  • pegaxs on 07/08/2022 - 18:27
                    +2

                    @Gatto: “Example” not “buy this one”. It was only to give you an example of an alternative. It’s up to you to find a cheaper one.

                    Ironically, buys a $80,000+ car and balks at a $1,400 charging cable.

                    • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 18:42

                      @pegaxs: I do appreciate the example and was only joking. Honestly pulling the trigger on a $78k car hurt a bit. I’m hoping the reduced running costs and FBT legislation change will offset some of the up front expense.

              • FLICKIT on 07/08/2022 - 19:43

                @Gatto: Just make sure the work 3-phase outlet is 10amp also, if it's 15/20/32 that 10 amp plug wont fit…

                It looks like that company has a few options to suit different 3-phse outlets:
                https://www.electrotraders.com.au/power-adapters/

                • GordonD on 08/08/2022 - 09:56

                  @FLICKIT: A 10A plug will fit a 15A Australian socket. Its safe and its legal. Internet forums say so. Seriously, if it wasn't safe and legal they would have designed the relevant plugs and sockets so you could not do it. But a 15A plug will not fit a 10A socket because that is not safe. And 3 phase 20A and 32A connectors are completely different.

        • GordonD on 08/08/2022 - 09:46
          +1

          I can confirm what pegaxs says. Getting single phase 10A or 15A out of a 3 phase socket is simple. I had to do it for a place I volunteered at where they'd done something horribly unsafe with lots of extension cords to power 240V equipment when there was only 3 phase socket close by. I have a card that says I can do stuff like that.

          If the OP doesn't travel a lot of kilometers, just get a short cable that converts 3 phase to a single phase 15A socket, and leave it plugged in at work, and get a 240V 15A socket installed at home. Then all you need is the appropriate Tesla charging cable, which I understand is no longer supplied standard, you have to pay about $500 for it. Its needed to give you the right plug to fit the Tesla, and tell the Tesla's electronics what sort of power its plugged into so it limits current draw to that.

          The two things I make sure to get right is to check whether the 3 phase at work is 20A or 32A. The socket is different. And test whether that socket is actually live. Oh, and is it out in the weather?

          • GordonD on 08/08/2022 - 10:22

            @GordonD: If the parking spaces at work are close together, like side by side, a single 3 phase socket could supply power to three 240V 15A sockets for your EV, another for the boss, and another one for someone else. The argument you can put is that by using it you are not preventing someone else doing the same if they think what you did was a good idea. But that sort of upgrade would require a professional electrician to do, not just an off the shelf cable.

      • trapper on 08/08/2022 - 12:31

        My work is generous enough to let me use their power…

        That is pretty sweet, I'd never charge at home again. lol

    • JimmyF on 07/08/2022 - 19:56
      -1

      At work install a 3 phase 22kW charger, at home, install a 7kW single phase charger.

      Just be aware that the onboard charger for the 3/Y is 11kw for AC charging….. So 7kw is fine for most people

  • SF3 on 07/08/2022 - 17:48
    +1

    The OzB way is, charge it at the office, so they pay for the electricity (unless you are the business owner).

    • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 17:50

      😉

  • MS Paint on 07/08/2022 - 19:23

    After a week of Tesla ownership this will be the least of your concerns.

    • pegaxs on 07/08/2022 - 19:39
      +2

      It’s the updating all the blogs and socials, watching $TSLA stock, posting to forums and telling random strangers all about the new Tesla that’s going to be the biggest time sinks.

      • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 20:19

        Did I mention that I ordered a Tesla? I can’t remember the last Non-Tesla conversation I had with someone 😂

        Tesla, Tesla , Tesla… love Elon.

  • slknv on 07/08/2022 - 19:30
    +3

    Install a 32A single phase 5 pin plug at home. Then get the 5 pin tail for your tesla mobile charger. Use it at home & at work. Done.

    • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 20:01
      -1

      Wait a minute… are you saying a 32A single phase plug will connect to a 5 pin 3 phase socket without any issues?

      • HelpMeiCantSee on 08/08/2022 - 18:01
        +1

        Technically, you can install any 3 phase plug on a single phase supply, but it obviously wouldn’t be 3 phase. It would only have one active line. It would need to be clearly marked, but I don’t see a problem with it.

        Very simplistically, 3 phase has 3 “positive” wires, one neutral and one earth. Single phase has one of those 3 “positive” wires, the same neutral and the same earth.

        Most 3 phase places have it wired in such a way that the 240v outlets are split along the 3 phases, so phase A supplies rooms 1&2, phase B room 3&4, phase C room 5&6 and so on. The idea being to spread the load across each phase to minimise total current on each line.

  • FLICKIT on 07/08/2022 - 19:56

    It looks like there are adapters around to use your standard charger on 3-phase outlets,
    https://www.teslaowners.org.au/charging

  • slowcoach on 07/08/2022 - 20:06
    +1

    At work https://www.evolutionaustralia.com.au/product-page/giger-por…

    At home, a "granny" charger. Plug into normal powerpoint. Around $500. Used to be standard with Tesla 3 but think not any more

  • Mikeee on 07/08/2022 - 20:23
    +2

    The simplest and cheapest solution would probably be to use the universal mobile charger with the standard 10A pigtail at home and then the same charger with a 3 phase 5 pin pigtail at work.

    Depending on when you bought your Tesla the UMC comes included or is available for purchase on the Tesla store.

    The 3 phase 5 pin pigtail is available at a few places, ie: https://www.evseadapters.com/products/australia-32a-5-pin-ad…

    • Gatto on 07/08/2022 - 20:36

      And swap the tail every time I charge at work? Is it a big job or just a couple of screws?

      • Mikeee on 07/08/2022 - 20:51
        +1

        Yes you’d have to swap the tail. To disconnect the tail all you have to do is pull it out.

        With the 3 phase you’ll be charging at a rate of 75km/h so a full 0-100% charge on the Y RWD would take around 5 hours.

        I have the 3 phase pigtail that I rarely use so I can lend it to you for testing if you like.

      • Thinkscape on 08/08/2022 - 11:57

        If you’re extra lazy you can have the mobile charger + pigtail always in your boot for work, and a permanent wall charger at home.

        In any case, you might be overthinking it a bit unless you’re commuting hundreds of kms every day (the mobile charger on single phase at home is 10-15km/h so evening to morning is around 100-150km extra range)

  • hothed on 08/08/2022 - 07:58
    +1

    Join the Tesla/model 3 facebook group. There are lots of discussions on the different types of chargers

  • JIMB0 on 08/08/2022 - 08:04
    +1

    Has the outlet at work actually got power to it?

    • Gatto on 09/08/2022 - 02:57

      Honestly, I have no idea. I don’t have anything to plug into it to even test it.

  • BravoWhiskey on 08/08/2022 - 10:06
    +3

    I don't think it's code to put a 5 pin charger with a single phase connected. You CAN get a regular 32A 3 pin charger put in your house (i did). Then you buy the 32A 3 pin mobile charger plug from somewhere like evse.com.au. You also buy the 5 pin 3-phase plug. Unfortunately there is a bit of setup cost here - the electrician to install the 32A socket (which will need dedicated wiring and a new breaker like 95% of the time), and the 2 plugs. Also i'm not sure if the universal charger comes with the cars anymore - so that's another thing.

    When you're at home, you plug the universal charger into the 3 pin 32A plug. You disconnect it the universal charger (you can leave the 3-pin plug in the wall), take it to work, plug it into the 5 pin charger which you then hook up at work. Unplug both (unless you want to leave the big 5 pin adapter plugged in and vulnerable at work) and go home.

    If you have anything other than one of the original Tesla's, you will charge at max 7 kW at home (32A x 230 V). If you're at work, you will charge at 11 kW (16 A x 230V x 3), which is the maximum the car can handle on AC - if you had an original it will be 22kW (32A x 230V x 3).

    Now the realistic bit - this is.. a LOT of charging capacity for a normal use vehicle. If you are driving 30 minutes to work every day, even at 110 km/h, that's say 50 km, or about 10-12% of a long range model 3 capacity. You will be able to replenish this in just over 1 hour at home, or slightly under 1 hour at work. I presume you are home for more than an hour a day, and the same of work.

    Electricity's future is likely to change in a number of ways - from a flat rate, to a timed rate (we're pretty much there now), and one day to a rate based on how fast you're using it. A slow trickle draw will end up being better for the grid, better for renewable generation etc. So you may not need it.

    That said, i installed a 3-pin 32A socket at home and use that. But i charge with solar, so the most i put in is 20A at a time when the sun is high (and when my inverter is not kaput - thanks SolarEdge!). If you have a system that tracks consumption as well as generation, you can even learn python like i did and write some code to track spare solar capacity and divert it all to charging. Then you can run your household as usual and know that the car is only charging with spare home-made power. Of course, less useful if you are never home during the day.

    It's still more than the 10A socket (which will charge about 3%/hr, or 15 km of range per hour) and i guess there weren't going to be many cost savings in only installing a 20A socket vs a 32A. But the big savings would have been to install a 15A socket, because then i would not have had to buy any adapters as it already came with the car.

    But for most use cases, and yours especially, i'd suggest you don't need to do anything other than the 10A plug - ESPECIALLY if you can use the 32A at work. Just buy the 32A 5 pin adapter and you're done. Even if you take a long holiday and dont have the free power, you can still stick 40% of a long range battery overnight at home.

    • Gatto on 09/08/2022 - 03:18

      This was really informative. Thank you for taking the time to write up your experience. I think I’m going to go down the same route as you, 3 pin 32amp socket at home (only so I can setup charging during “off-peak” hrs). As others have suggested, I think the simplest solution at work will be to step down the 3 phase connection (assuming it’s still active) to a 230v 15a socket and slow charge it using the UMC during the day. When you break down the charge rates logically, it doesn’t really make sense having really high charging rates if your cars going to be stationary most of the day.

  • oscargamer on 08/08/2022 - 10:40

    Just start with only the granny charger at home. If you then need more charging, then assess what you actually need, based on your actual energy usage.

    Sounds like you have the relatively new condition called CRAPP ( car range anxiety pre-purchase )

    • Gatto on 09/08/2022 - 03:21

      Haha you have actually nailed it… thankfully the good people of OzBargain have settled my nerves. I’m now fairly certain that a 32a tail for home charging and the supplied 15a UMC charger for work will be more than enough for my daily commute. I guess time will tell.

  • StingyBritches on 08/08/2022 - 11:21
    +1

    Well said, BravoWhiskey! I totally agree.

    “Electricity's future is likely to change in a number of ways - from a flat rate, to a timed rate (we're pretty much there now), and one day to a rate based on how fast you're using it. A slow trickle draw will end up being better for the grid, better for renewable generation etc.”

  • WT on 08/08/2022 - 11:43

    buy the regular wall socket kit, I think they sell them aftermarket. Driving 1 hour a day you will be charging every 3 or 4 days even if you are using 10A. I dont recall if they come with one currently but I have a feeling they might

    If you have off peak in your garage thats even better but you will probably need to put it on charge every day or so, its 12am to 7am here

    Seems you are making a complicated/expensive solution to an easy issue

  • outlander on 08/08/2022 - 12:47

    This sounds like the thing you want
    https://eectech.com.au/3-Phase-Adaptors-IP56-Rated/Powerboar….

    However, if it was me I'd be plugging in some other device as a test before I plugged in my 60K car filled with lithium exploding batteries lmao

  • md333 on 08/08/2022 - 13:51

    Check out the Tesla owners club. I think they have some adapters available to members to allow charging from 3 phase 415V outlets, for long trips, they also set up access to such charge points around Australia. You might be able to get one of those to try out the work charging before deciding whether you want to bother purchasing something for continued use.

  • Buddyz on 19/08/2024 - 11:06

    @Gatto hey mate, I'm in Adelaide, you can call me if you want to ask anthing about EVs chargers or anything else realy. Or we can go get coffee and chat about it face to face if you want. I'm willing to help a fellow EV owner.

  • Thinkscape on 20/08/2024 - 09:44
    +1
    Do not install anything.

    If you're commuting, on average Aussies do 30km a day.
    If you use your car for work, how much are you driving really between jobs?

    Here's the cheapest option:

    • You car should come with a normal powerpoint charger (trickle charger)
    • If it didn't, it's around $300-1000 new
    • Get a second one for work.
    • Using this charger (on normal single phase) typical EV will add at MINUMUM 10km / hour
    • 8h plugged at work will add 80km
    • 10h of sleep at home will add 100km
    • Between overnight charging and work charging you're looking at 180km of additional range
    • Are you driving more than 180km every day?
    • Worst case: even if you drive 250km workdaily, then you have 70km deficit. Typical EV will have around 400-500km range. So you can easily go 5 work days doing the above, and on Friday you will come home with around ~100km of range left. Then assuming you still need 500km over the weekend, go to any fast charger on the weekend (i.e. in a shopping centre) to charge back to 90-100%.
    • Thinkscape on 20/08/2024 - 09:52

      If you've got a Tesla, here are the charging speeds for reference:
      https://www.tesla.com/en_au/support/charging/wall-connector#…

      Using trickle charger, single phase, the most popular Model 3 and Y charges at 15km/h.
      The heaviest Model X is 11km/h.

      If you connect the same trickle charger to a 15A single-phase socket, you get 25km/h, so around 250km overnight.

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