How is crypto "decentralised" if it's bought and sold with real money?

SlavOz on 20/06/2022 - 10:36

I have a lot of friends in crypto and they can't seem to answer this. They go on about how it's decentralised, so no tracking, you can bypass government rules and economic tactics etc. I'm all for that, but how exactly does crypto achieve this if it's purchased, sold, and valued with official government (fiat) currency?

The only reason people seem to buy crypto these days is to make money off it. Nobody is actually investing in the benefit of decentralised payment, they just want to make real money off it.

Everyone who buys crypto currency says they're doing it because government money is all bullshit, yet as soon as the market ticks upwards they trade their crypto back in for government money.

Sure most people already know this. I'm not opposed to crypto - if it makes money, good for you. But it can't really be decentralised if the only reason people buy and sell it is for regulated fiat money. This means it's really just adding another step in the usual economic transaction process - instead of paying someone directly, you pay them with monopoly money that can be traded in for real money.

Financial Cryptocurrency

Comments

  • randomusername2017 on 20/06/2022 - 10:47
    +25

    Valid point and no poll… Who hijacked Slavs account?¿

    Not delving into the mechanics of crypto etc.. leave that to the rektperts.. just the point about fiat onramp and people cashing out

    • techlead on 21/06/2022 - 07:59

      "Rektperts" - hahaha, never heard that before.

      I'm still alot richer than my property investing friends, even after this "crash". So if I'm "rekt", they are even more rekt.

      • randomusername2017 on 21/06/2022 - 08:27
        +1

        My bad ..typo
        After all there is only one rektpert.

        • techlead on 21/06/2022 - 08:28

          There's a king rektpert followed by little rektpert minions haha.

  • Hybroid on 20/06/2022 - 10:47
    +3

    Buying with real money is just one of the first links, though there are others ways to procure anonymously too. From thereon, there's no central regulation on how it trades hands through the blockchain. You can keep passing it through from wallet to wallet via peer-to-peer connections. Feels like something your friends could have googled in 30 seconds.

    • Chandler on 20/06/2022 - 12:25
      +2

      there's no central regulation on how it trades hands through the blockchain. You can keep passing it through from wallet to wallet via peer-to-peer connections.

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but whilst there is no regulation the blockchain maintains the ledger - you can track every single bitcoin via each of it's transactions in the ledger. So if you purchased bitcoin for cash (through regulated channels), that coin could end up being traced back to you.

      Now whether or not you were involved in whatever illegal activities said coin was involved in is for investigation, but it is still traceable to you (if you bought the coin via a regulated channel).

      • whatwasherproblem on 20/06/2022 - 12:50

        Correct, but it's worth mentioning that this part…

        if you bought the coin via a regulated channel

        …is one of the primary (if not only) reasons that it's traceable. If nobody could conclusively tie transactions to your wallet address (e.g. what Monero attempts to do with its ring signatures) and if you were able to exclusively conduct business dealings with the cryptocurrency without the need for an intermediary or an exchange from an actually tracked currency (we're not quite there yet for non-illegal markets, and arguably crypto will never be enticing enough to the majority of the population for us to get to a point where people can pay with crypto down at Woolies and their boss deposits their salary into their blockchain address), then there would be no regulation at all, and no way to prove anything happened or didn't happen.

        • Chandler on 20/06/2022 - 12:57

          and no way to prove anything happened or didn't happen.

          Well, they'd be able to subpeona your wallet address from your employer, or potentially tie your transaction at Woolies to you. Once they've confirmed your wallet address, follow the transactions.

          (IMO) BTC becoming mainstream removes the necessity for exchanges, which would potentially see the removal of the banking system from the equation - banks would be relegated to forex for those who want/need to convert their BTC to FIAT.

          • whatwasherproblem on 20/06/2022 - 13:03

            @Chandler:

            Well, they'd be able to subpeona your wallet address from your employer, or potentially tie your transaction at Woolies to you. Once they've confirmed your wallet address, follow the transactions.

            Sure, but if all they find in the transaction log are a bunch of ring-signature obfuscated transactions that they can't actually tie specifically to you or anyone else, then what? They can't prove anything about any money you may (or may not) have been paid or payed out to other people.

            • Chandler on 20/06/2022 - 13:03
              +1

              @whatwasherproblem:

              but if all they find in the transaction log are a bunch of ring-signature obfuscated transactions that they can't actually tie specifically to you or anyone else

              That's a monero thing but right? Not BTC?

              • whatwasherproblem on 20/06/2022 - 13:05

                @Chandler: Ah, right. Yeah, it's a Monero thing. You and I are in agreement that Bitcoin falls way short of that.

  • 7ekn00 on 20/06/2022 - 10:48
    +10

    It's doesn't achieve what you claim it does, blockchain allows all wallets to be tracked by the public .. some tokens achieve a better level of anonymity (like monero)!

    Can't make a false claim, then ask for an explanation of said false claim :/

    "decentralised" refers to the block chain, which makes the altering of the public record extremely difficult to alter by malicious means .. it does not refer to the tokens nor the payments themselves (after all the tokens are just big numbers that belong to wallets)!

    All governments around the world can track, monitor and control "crypto", perfect example is Canada blocking the crypto wallets of the Freedom Truckers - to achieve that, by definition it is centralized (how else could one entity - like Canadian government - take full control of individuals wallets?)!

    Another example is the Australian government - try making millions in crypto and NOT claiming it to the ATO (they will be on you in a flash!!)

    • pegaxs on 20/06/2022 - 10:53
      +7

      Can't make a false claim, then ask for an explanation of said false claim :/

      You must be new to SlavOz posts…

    • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 11:07
      +3

      perfect example is Canada blocking the crypto wallets of the Freedom Truckers - to achieve that, by definition it is centralized (how else could one entity - like Canadian government - take full control of individuals wallets?)!

      That's not how it works.

      The wallets that got frozen were custodial wallets. The users didn't have access to the private key.

      • Switchblade88 on 20/06/2022 - 12:22
        +1

        The users didn't have access to the private key

        You don't have the keys, then you don't own the coins!

        • Chandler on 20/06/2022 - 12:26

          Yes, but that is not necessarily a flaw with the system, just a particular users choice of implementation.

  • Mr Haj on 20/06/2022 - 10:51

    Well you need to obtain it somehow and buying it isn't the only way it can be obtained (i.e. mining and staking). Once you have it you can trade it from one wallet to another without the need for a third party. So I would say that is decentralised in that it doesn't require a third party to facilitate a transaction. However my understanding is that every crypto except for bitcoin either have been or could be modified by their creators which makes the currency itself centralised like any other fiat.

  • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 10:54
    +3

    May be stick to talking about Rona and jabs?

  • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 11:03

    Australians won't use #Bitcoin as a medium of exchange as long there is CGT.

    The US has introduced a bill in the Senate to make <$200 #Bitcoin Tx CGT free.

    • askbargain on 20/06/2022 - 11:06

      introduced

      will it pass?

      • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 11:07

        It can take years. May be by the 2024 election.

      • freefall101 on 20/06/2022 - 12:01
        +1

        No chance, although it's not intended to pass but instead setup the framework for discussions going forward. There will be new bills in 2023, after the midterms.

        This is Senator Lummis showing she's on the side of the crypto industry, because it's a friendly bill for crypto. Brings in oversight but not too much and has a focus on stablecoins and fixing the fustercluck that exists there.

        Crypto lobbyists are a thing these days, and there's a lot of people with a lot of money who want crypto to keep rolling on. By being seen as the crypto-friendly senator she's setting herself up for mucho dollaros from the industry.

    • netjock on 20/06/2022 - 11:29

      If it is a stable currency (like it doesn't fluctuate wildly) you can use it.

      Forget about CGT. Having $10 today that turns is $15 tomorrow and paying CGT on $5 is the least of your worries. It is having $10 today and $5 tomorrow and your groceries is still $10 that is THE problem.

      • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 11:33
        -1

        1 #Bitcoin is 1 Bitcoin.

        Bitcoin's time horizon is long-term. We can pick up how stable it is in 2140.

        Countries like El Salvador price goods and services in both USD and Bitcoin. El Salvadorians can say that the USD fluctuates against $BTC.

        • netjock on 20/06/2022 - 11:37
          +12

          El Salvadorians can say that the USD fluctuates against $BTC

          You taking financial lessons from El Salvador? Who else is on the teaching staff? Zimbabweans?

          • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 11:41
            +3

            @netjock: El Salvador has been under the boot of the IMF and USD for 21Y.

            . #BItcoin is their opportunity to tell the IMF to fk off.

            • Crow K on 20/06/2022 - 11:49
              -3

              @rektrading: I guess there's a novelty factor in destroying your credit rating and economy with a new currency.

              'You thought we were going to default in USD, joke's on you!'

              • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 12:01

                @Crow K: Credit rating means 💩 when one can mine their own money.

                • Crow K on 20/06/2022 - 12:08

                  @rektrading: Ignoring the ridiculous costs it takes to mine them, I see.

                  Imagine telling a failed economy they have the 'freedom' to start using the single-most expensive currency in the world.

                  • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 12:15

                    @Crow K: El Salvador has 🌋 energy (geothermal).

                    It's sustainable, eco-friendly and the best of all, free.

                    No more #IMF boots on their necks.

                    • Crow K on 20/06/2022 - 12:18

                      @rektrading: I was going to make a sarcastic post about them buying a second hand server farm on Craigslist and making a go of it, but I think we can just wait this one out.

                      Why don't we just wait and see what happens in the country and use that as a basis to determine how successful the Bitcoin experiment was?

  • Drakesy on 20/06/2022 - 11:04
    +5

    Once the hype goes down and people realise its just a currency with no backing then that's when we'll know the true value…

    Yes there's a finite number in circulation but the fluctuations in value are all purely speculation.
    I'm still firmly in the ponzi scheme bucket.

    • askbargain on 20/06/2022 - 11:13

      I wonder what Zimbabwe's dollars are backed by.

      • Drakesy on 20/06/2022 - 11:14
        +2

        Their crumbling economy ;)
        Similar to Venezuela i guess.

        Still at least you can have an educated guess on a government's currency based on geo-political events.
        Bitcoins/sh1tcoins just X, Y & Z Gens convinced it'll go to the moon purely based on hype generated by some financial bros or youtube tiktok "star" thing who's been paid to spruik it and has zero economic/financial literacy.

        Yes bitcoin will find a floor but it won't be worth what it was during the peak hype.

        • askbargain on 20/06/2022 - 11:19
          +4

          educated guess on a government's currency based on geo-political events

          The idea is that governments can't change the code and hence it's decentralised.

          Similar to Venezuela i guess.

          What do you suggest Venezuelans do? Keep holding their country's currency? Or should everyone use USD because only the US government should have the power to print money.

        • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 11:21

          How about Turkey?

        • SlavOz on 20/06/2022 - 11:23

          I agree but tbf, as my friends always say, fiat currency is hardly a shining example of consistent or "safe" value either. The government prints rindoculous amounts of it and sets whatever it wants it to be worth. It can and has been used against the people (if everyone was rich, we wouldn't need the government, so they have a vested interested in making sure people remain poor).

          The only thing that makes fiat currency regulated is that only one criminal organisation is allowed to manipulate it, whereas other currencies can be manipulated by anyone and everyone.

          • freefall101 on 20/06/2022 - 12:10
            +4

            @SlavOz: The government doesn't set what the dollar is worth, it's based on how much other countries want our dollars (which is built around our ability to trade).

            Plus how can everyone be rich? If you gave everyone $20m then the price of everything would go through the roof. You can't have everyone be so wealthy they don't have to work anymore because the economy would fall over overnight as demand for stuff skyrockets while the number of people who actually go to work drops significantly. You'd have out of control inflation.

    • UltimateAI on 20/06/2022 - 11:55
      +1

      Exactly!!
      Rarity itself doesn't equal value (people refer to precious metals, but gold \ silver continue to have real world critical uses.
      NFT's are like Snowflakes, sure they are rare, but everytime it snows there are billions more. (stolen, not original but it lives in my mind for free)
      We all know Diamonds are a scam, and certainly not rare. Bitcoin is more like a diamond than gold. It's worth something, only because people think it worth something today (ie: tulips)
      Then they refer to real cost (it costs something to mine bitcoin). That's just the difficulty level, and that can be changed. Bitcoin is centrally controlled by miner factions. They group together and can control 50% of the vote. So they can essentially implement what they want, the community can cry all they want.
      People talk about Bitcoin being Pro Privacy and Open Ledger in the same breath, can't have it both ways. Yes there are coins that specialise in privacy, that's not the point.

  • netjock on 20/06/2022 - 11:33
    -1

    Crypto needs to get serious to be successful. It stands for too many things. Notice how anything that is successful does a function really good?

    Remember: crypto can bank the unbanked?

    Well that has died. In most poor country you are unbanked because you don't have enough money to bank in the first place. Then when you have enough money the problem is getting infrastructure (ATMs, bank branches etc). Don't tell me Bitcoin is going to open up Bitcoin money changers and install ATMs (that required capital in fiat paid up front, Bitcoin head office doens't have the capital to put up to do that). Then how is Bitcoin going to pay for all the staff to do compliance (AML, KYC, CTF)?

    Russia is taking bitcoin now to circumnavigate sanctions. Bitcoin ain't going to put airbags in Lada's to save people (new Ladas have no air bags due to sanctions).

    • askbargain on 20/06/2022 - 11:37

      Then how is Bitcoin going to pay for all the staff to do compliance (AML, KYC, CTF)?

      The CEO of bitcoin already has plans to do this!

      • UltimateAI on 20/06/2022 - 11:57
        -1

        You are confusing bitcoin.com (an exchange) with Bitcoin. Bitcoin has a community not CEO, but the real power comes from the miners who vote on the code changes.

    • idjces on 20/06/2022 - 12:10

      Then when you have enough money the problem is getting infrastructure (ATMs, bank branches etc)

      Isn't the point to use mobile phones, or some access to the web, to bypass all that infrastructure? I guess that changes the overhead of requiring a bank's services, to the overhead of using a volatile currency

      • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 12:28

        People who live in western countries will never understand what it means to be unbanked.

        https://twitter.com/RobbeMedia/status/1536466922929266689
        $BTC #Bitcoin Adoption is happening in the most unexpected areas. Kids in South Africa adopting BTC Lightning, using sats as a unit of account. (Via: Reddit) https://t.co/AYcyo8Jmdr

        . #Bitcoin gives people in underdeveloped nations the freedom to Tx in a way that industrialised nations take for granted.

        • Crow K on 20/06/2022 - 12:54

          A freedom they've had for over a decade via trading in cellphone minutes

          https://nextnature.net/story/2008/cell-phone-minutes-the-nex…

          https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2013/01/19/a…

          • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 14:52

            @Crow K: They can now use the #LN.

            • Crow K on 20/06/2022 - 15:45

              @rektrading: The same logic to how NFTs and blockchains mean we can 'now' prove that we own things and resolve intellectual property disputes.

              • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 15:47
                -1

                @Crow K: Don't confuse #NFT with #Bitcoin.

                • Crow K on 20/06/2022 - 15:51

                  @rektrading: I'm not. I'm using another shonky crypto argument as analogous to your point.

                  "I've developed a complex, expensive system that will let people do X"
                  But we can do X already
                  "Yes, but now you can do X with my system"

                  • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 15:54

                    @Crow K: Of course, adoption never stops.

                    resistance is futile.

                    • Crow K on 20/06/2022 - 16:07
                      +1

                      @rektrading: Sounds like marketing from Beenz. You know, the worldwide digital currency that we're all using now.

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beenz.com

                      • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 16:11
                        -2

                        @Crow K: I don't know what that is, and I'm not interested in knowing.

                        • Crow K on 20/06/2022 - 16:17
                          +1

                          @rektrading: Normally that's the thing normies say to a cryptobro when they bring up digital currency. #opposite-day

                      • SBOB on 20/06/2022 - 18:06
                        +2

                        @Crow K: Man I miss beenz days.
                        scored several free things via Amazon back when I was in uni, like a high tech zip drive :)

        • Drakesy on 20/06/2022 - 14:20

          Or is it just another way for the western world to continue their poverty ridden cycle via numerous rug pool ponzi schemes?

          • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 14:51
            -1

            @Drakesy: The #IMF give out loans to underdeveloped countries in exchange for US businesses setting up shop and raping their resources.

      • Chandler on 20/06/2022 - 12:44
        +1

        Well if you think about it - what is the point of ATMs, bank branches, etc.

        ATMs allow you to convert your digital FIAT into physical FIAT. Bitcoin is completely digital (almost - they did make some physical coins…). So no need for ATMs. Money changes are basically a Forex - a place to convert FIAT and BTC.

        Bank branches give you somewhere to store your physical & digital FIAT. Bitcoin you own your wallet (unless you chose to have an exchange hold it for you). So no need for bank branches. Exchanges are exactly as they say: places for you to exchange your FIAT/BTC.

        All of the above is part of what makes bitcoin decentralised. You don't need anyone to have BTC - no ATM, no bank, no government backing the currency. Just set yourself up a wallet, connect yourself up to the network and earn yourself some BTC (mining, trading, bartering, etc). Bitcoin's value issues are mostly attributable to the significant amount of speculating it's seen for most of it's life, and that primarily due to it's size and popularity. You can speculate on FIAT, and the same could happen with FIAT (assuming no government intervention), but you don't see speculation on FIAT to the same scale you do with BTC, and so you don't see huge swings in it's value.

        Disclaimer: Whilst I did make myself a wallet at some point, I don't have any coins nor do I follow the whole thing that much; so all of the above could be completely wrong. This is just the ramblings of someone who's somewhat intelligent (IMO, at least) with a mild curiosity on the subject.

        • Chandler on 20/06/2022 - 12:46

          So, how'd I go @rektrading? Close?

          • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 12:49

            @Chandler: 👍.

            You know more than the 🎓 that you're replying to.

            • Chandler on 20/06/2022 - 12:50

              @rektrading: The way I look at it is there are two groups of people wrt BTC.

              Those who are invested for in the system - decentralised. Whether that be for control/privacy or nefarious purposes.

              Those who are invested for the "ponzi scheme" - huge speculation on the market gives you the potential to "get rich quick".

        • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 12:52

          but you don't see speculation on FIAT to the same scale you do with BTC, and so you don't see huge swings in it's value.

          People who say #Bitcoin is gambling should 👀 at FOREX.

          .#FOREX trading is a $6T daily volume market with 500x to 1000x leverage.

          • Chandler on 20/06/2022 - 12:54

            @rektrading: Yes, but as I said it's a matter of scale. That $6T on FOREX is (probably?) a drop in the ocean. The speculation on BTC however is a much larger proportion of the market?

            (again, I say this as someone who is not fluent in the subject)

            • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 13:02

              @Chandler: The crypto market 24H volume is at the moment only $98B. #Bitcoin is $31B 24H.

              The #FOREX market is open 24/7 with +$6T 24H volume.

              Far more traders have been rekt trading FOREX and stocks than Bitcoin.

              • Chandler on 20/06/2022 - 13:18

                @rektrading: Yes but my point is what is the market volume compared to market cap as a percentage, comparing that between FOREX and BTC?

                So BTC market = $31B / 24hr; BTC market cap = $418B (source may/may not be accurate). So 7.5% of the cap is being actively traded.

                FOREX market = $6T / 24h; FOREX market cap = $ ???

                • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 13:31

                  @Chandler:

                  FOREX market cap = $ ???

                  That's the 21,000,000 #Bitcoin question.

                  The central banks around the world have printed so much fiat money over the past 100Y that it's impossible to know.

                  A billion here, a billion there. Who's counting, right?

                  • Chandler on 20/06/2022 - 13:35

                    @rektrading: You get what I'm saying but, yeah? 7% of all BTC are being actively traded. I doubt even a tenth of that is what is being traded in FOREX (i.e. FOREX market vs cap < 0.7%)

                    Again, my inexperienced opinion on the subject.

            • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 10:16
              +1

              @Chandler: Speculation is close to 100% of the market. No one uses BTC to transact.

      • netjock on 20/06/2022 - 14:04

        Isn't the point to use mobile phones, or some access to the web, to bypass all that infrastructure?

        Who is going to build mobile towers for people who are too poor to use it?

        Mobile phone. You need a somewhere up to date phone to use the app. If you don't then you get hacked, all your money gone.

  • DemocracyManifest on 20/06/2022 - 11:40
    +1

    Ponzi scheme as above, with its best uses being money laundering and criminal enterprise through the use of tumblers.

    From the AFR: ‘Unlike commodities, no real world demand exists for bitcoins.’ Its nearing the point where the energy to mine 1 Bitcoin equals it’s worth. Like, if $15k is worth nothing to you put it on red haha but it’s speculative nonsense.

    The fervent worshippers are frothing at the prospect of it dropping to crazy low levels as the space has been invaded by fintech companies: from the ‘Bitcoin’ Twitter - ‘But there is still much pain before we get rid of the real ones and have just the #Bitcoin purists. Remember, it went from $32 to $2; so $69k to $4k would be a great purge.’ - absolute delusion

    Even watching this video on El Salvador is cause for concern: https://youtu.be/-CSfDsucYf8 - an absolute financial sinkhole for the country, heaps of public money is being wasted on the project and almost overnight any chance of profits evaporated, they weren’t making any profits off it either

    • askbargain on 20/06/2022 - 11:43

      If there is no real world demand, is it really a Ponzi scheme?

      • DemocracyManifest on 20/06/2022 - 11:51

        Well there’s FOMO and speculative mania, that’s not real world demand. Even in El Salvador cash is still king

  • UltimateAI on 20/06/2022 - 11:41
    +5

    Crypto LEDGER is decentralised, but OWNERSHIP is definitely centralised.

    0.57% of wallets, hold more than 75% of (5,400,000 BTC). The major holders (whales), each have dozens of wallets, to reduce their risk.
    from this is it estimated only 0.1% of People hold > 80% of Bitcoin.

    So I agree it is very misleading to cite crypto as being decentralised. Sure the tech is, but ownership and control is what matters.
    On the control front, mining is also very centralised, if you control more than 50% of mining power you can control the rules\code.

    • askbargain on 20/06/2022 - 11:56
      +1

      OWNERSHIP is definitely centralised

      Might be worth learning the difference between decentralised and distributed. However, it is true that lots of coins are centralised as many people leave them on exchanges, leaving CONTROL to exchanges.

      0.57% of wallets, hold more than 75%

      Shocking stats until you compare it with fiat currency and stocks.

      if you control more than 50% of mining power you can control the rules\code

      A 51% attack cannot change code.

      • UltimateAI on 20/06/2022 - 12:00

        I think you are referring to what people refer to as a 51% attach, but actually requires as little as 34% control. This is actually a "double-spend" attack where you stop new transactions.
        A true 51% attach, can essentially fork bitcoin.

        • askbargain on 20/06/2022 - 12:02
          +1

          A true 51% attack, can essentially fork bitcoin.

          A 51% attack cannot change code.

      • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 10:19

        Shocking stats until you compare it with fiat currency and stocks.

        Well, no actually. Wealth ownership is much more concentrated in the crypto space than in the real world.

    • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 12:00

      On the control front, mining is also very centralised, if you control more than 50% of mining power you can control the rules\code.

      Anyone that has a 51% hash power doesn't mean that they control the network.

      There are 15,000 nodes that can refuse to broadcast the block.

      • UltimateAI on 20/06/2022 - 12:02

        You are correct, but estimates put 99% of the node owners just run the node. Despite not knowing how to refuse the broadcast, they wouldn't even know an attach was underway.

        • askbargain on 20/06/2022 - 12:05
          +1

          If only the ledger was public and we could see if there was a double spend attack or something.

          • UltimateAI on 20/06/2022 - 12:12

            @askbargain: I wasn't referring to a double-spend. We disagree on the code change, and thankfully this remains theoretically only, although has occurred multiple times on various altcoins, who use similar code.

            • askbargain on 20/06/2022 - 12:15
              +2

              @UltimateAI:

              We disagree on the code change

              Miners don't change code, nodes do. There is a difference and I can see you don't know the difference.

        • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 12:11
          -1

          The big mining pools are known by the community. Any attempt to attack or fork the network would be picked up by the bots ASAP.

          The word would travel at the speed of #lightning on CT with instructions on how to stop the DDOS.

          • UltimateAI on 20/06/2022 - 12:17

            @rektrading: The bitcoin community hasn't been friendly for a long time, they all serve their own interests.
            The reason such an attack is unlikely\won't occur, is it would instantly devalue bitcoin (as it has done with alt coins in the past).
            I do stand-by that in my analysis of the code and historical events, I absolutely believe such an attach is possible.

            • askbargain on 20/06/2022 - 12:24
              +1

              @UltimateAI:

              The bitcoin community hasn't been friendly for a long time, they all serve their own interests.

              https://pineapplefund.org/

              in my analysis of the code

              Doubt.

              • UltimateAI on 20/06/2022 - 12:27

                @askbargain: Plenty of charitable bitcoin\crypto holders. They are renowned for their unsolicited donations.
                You knew I was referring to the community itself and their lack of collaboration, hostility to each other.

                • askbargain on 20/06/2022 - 12:27
                  +1

                  @UltimateAI:

                  their lack of collaboration, hostility to each other.

                  Sure would help your argument if you provided examples.

            • rektrading on 26/06/2022 - 09:01

              @UltimateAI:

              https://twitter.com/AltcoinDailyio/status/154048432325762252…
              Can #bitcoin be 51% attacked?

              cc: @aantonop circa 2015 https://t.co/L2lZsVesJN

              • UltimateAI on 26/06/2022 - 23:00

                @rektrading: So basically confirms it is possible, but won't happen due to the incentive structure.
                Believe I said in an earlier post, it won't happen as it would make bitcoin worthless and they would lose billions.
                BTC community couldn't agree on the basic block size or segwit, and they honestly believe they can respond to a co-ordinated attack. Lol…

                • rektrading on 26/06/2022 - 23:27

                  @UltimateAI: Attacks, no. Forks, yes.

                  There has been plenty of forks of #Bitcoin. They turn into 💩coins. No value and no users.

  • whatwasherproblem on 20/06/2022 - 12:36

    I have a lot of friends in crypto and they can't seem to answer this. They go on about how it's decentralised, so no tracking, you can bypass government rules and economic tactics etc.

    Presumably they're talking about the 'idea' of crypto in broad terms (or something like Monero, which gets a little closer to that ideal). If they're arguing that the BTC Bitcoin implementation is all of those things, then they're hilariously wrong, as you pointed out.

  • Drpepper666 on 20/06/2022 - 15:15
    +1

    |Everyone who buys crypto currency says they're doing it because government money is all bullshit, yet as soon as the market ticks upwards they trade their crypto back in for government money.

    Governement money is bullshit, therefore lets use crypto which is bullshit rat posion squared, that loses 90% of value at the drop of a hat xD

    • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 15:31

      Yes, you're right.

      . #Bitcoin is poison designed to kill the 🐀.

      https://twitter.com/TheBitfi/status/1124897083939594240
      “I'll tell you why I like the cigarette business. It costs a penny to make. Sell it for a dollar. It's addictive. And there's fantastic brand loyalty.” ~Warren Buffett

      “Bitcoin is rat poison” ~Warren Buffett https://t.co/BWRZRzguD0

    • askbargain on 20/06/2022 - 15:46

      If you’re talking about shitcoins, then yes.

      If you’re talking about bitcoin, not everywhere accepts bitcoin yet. That’s why people convert it to fiat. The idea is that in future when adoption is high, people live off bitcoin.

      • Drpepper666 on 20/06/2022 - 17:02

        Nowhere accepts Bitcoin because it's completely useless as a currency

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