I really enjoy my job.
I've been there for a while and have had a significant increase in responsibility both in terms of work load, direct reports and also contributed to top line revenue growth and bottom line improvement.
How do you ask for a salary increase?
My boss knows my achievements. I hate asking he has been promising an increase for about 18 months.
I've never had to ask for increases before.
Thank you for the considered response. I don't want to change but the pay is terrible.
How much and what do you do?
Hand in your resignation letter. Your raise will come then.
It will.
I have seen them do this at my workplace. Does that seem spiteful
I've heard that this is terrible advice. If they counter offer and you accept they will absolutely hate you. Expect yourself to be socially excluded, overloaded with work, given impossible tasks, denied resources, working late, etc.
Better to negotiate with resignation as an option than resign with negotiation as an option.
Great insights. That's what has happened to the person who did this, socially. Excluded stunted progression wise and may have got at most 10%
I have done this at my current role about a year ago and haven’t noticed any difference in how my manager and the manager above him treat me (only those 2 and HR manager know about it) and infact even been awarded for good performance few months after that. I think it all depends on what kind of people you’re working with and under.
I got a very decent counter offer to stay with my employer a few years ago, beating what I'd been offered elsewhere. Never experienced any of the above.
Although I didn't actually resign, just told them what I'd been offered.
Nah, I've seen plenty of people leverage offers with no repercussions.
The best negotiating tool is another offer
Just gonna clarify for Brianqpr and dinna89 that there is a world of difference between handing in your resignation letter and tactfully saying "I've been looking at the market and I don't think my current salary is competitive for my skills and experience". Implicit threat rather than explicit.
And for ashtdp, I'm sure it can work in some circumstances. Probably depends on your industry. I'm just saying as a general piece of advice for most people in most jobs I think it would go badly.
that's some Sun Tzu stuff right there.
Do the work, don't let the work do you
I wouldn't do that unless you are happy to follow through. Chances are no raise will come and even if it does may still be lower than you can get elsewhere.
My previous job I was sure they would give me a counter offer when I resigned, they asked what they could do to keep me and I said for starters they would have to match the salary. Like 2 days before I finished the manager is like "I wish I could have done something to keep you"… Lol yeah I told you and you didn't do anything.
Most employers probably think if they simply offer you more money to stay then you are already one foot out the door and will just leave a little later.
Book a meeting with your boss, then ‘ask’.
Be prepared to know what your market rate is, or post if you are “underpaid” with a poll.
Market is About 25k more than what I'm getting even on the bottom end of the pay scale 20% increase.
That seems like you are badly underpaid. I agree with SF3, you should definitely ask.
I retired 2 years ago after spending 15 years with a company. I had been an important member (the go-to guy) of the company and the owners were and still are my friends. I only received 3 minimal pay rise over the 15 years. Later on I found out all new comers were paid about the same as me. I enjoyed the work and the friendship while working there. But looking back, I certainly think should have asked for more pay rise. I certainly think you should just ask and see what happens.
That is why the owners are still your friends, you saved them ALOT of money!
If you don't ask, you don't get.
1) Look into other companies and find out pay rates etc
2) talk to your employer and ask if those promises will ever happen (politely)
If they agree to a rate increase great, if not, use the going rates to try negotiate and let them know how you feel about your job. Tell them you enjoy working there but if a pay rise can’t be done in x amount of time you may go elsewhere.
If you didn’t like your job it would be much easier haha.
Just a matter of applying for better paying positions and if accepted for one using it to leverage a pay rise out of them or your leaving.
You really need to try and determine your worth, hopefully seek can give you and idea of the wage range for your job based on experience.
How replaceable are you? Would your employer have to invest more resources into replacing you than giving you the pay rise or could someone be up to your level after say 2 months training?
Once you figure this out arrange a meeting with your employer, go in and state that you want a pay rise and state the amount you are asking for (don't just ask for a pay rise and leave your employer to determine the figure, you will most likely be disappointed with the figure they come to). Then go on to state why you want this pay rise like the reasons you have mentioned above, don't forget to add that due to inflation your real wages have gone down while your work responsibility and value to the business has gone up.
This is a hot labor market and one of the few times where more employees really hold the leverage, use it to your advantage.
Everyone can be replaced. My role is technical and managerial plus change management so it would be disruptive if I left.
If he's promised for 18 months and you still haven't gotten it, might be time to start looking elsewhere. Has he mentioned what the holdup is? Are there any regular catch-ups where your future is discussed?
The feebleness of the excuses he has said was astonishing. Like it would cost them more because of fringe benefit tax. I don't have a company car
Ugh, sorry to hear that. Best to go then, doesn't sound like he will actively try to retain you and it sounds like a toxic environment :(
Bruh, move on.
I was in a similar boat 18 months ago. I loved my job but I needed a pay rise. I was kicking goals and everyone loves me there, but at the end of the day you have to look out for yourself. Depending on your industry you don’t get a pay rise by being loyal and I got a massive one by moving. As others have mentioned, the ball is finally in the employees court, so make use of it!
Thank you
You're being taken for a ride…
How Do You Ask for a Decent Salary Increase?
"Can I have a decent salary rise please?"
That should do the trick!
…promising an increase for about 18 months
I would've left about 12 months ago.
Yes I was tempted to leave 12 months ago but wanted to not bounce around too much for progression.. But all I'm doing is working for much less than the market.
Bouncing around is how you progress. Otherwise you'll just be given new responsibilities with no change in wage.
In my experience, the people who have bounced seems to have the most experience, since they've been exposed to a lot more than people whos stuck with one company for 10 years, especially if you're doing the same thing day in day out.
I personally feel the same way, but it may depend on your industry.
Just get a better paying job and go directly out the front door - do not stop to negotiate.
Find me a caring employer and I will start beleiving in Santa Claus.
I agree. Culture means sweet nothing.
Unless the employer is particularly special to you (eg. 2 min from home, very flexible arranagements) your best bet is to find another job. Movign every 2-3 years is by far the best way to get ahead in most fields. It's rare for any pay rise to match what you'd get from simply finding another job, and a breadth of experience at different companies will make you a better employee, further assisting you to move on again.
Flexibility works both ways I feel like i have bent over backwards and they haven't reciprocated. I guess that's most staff too
Moving every 2-3 yrs catches up on you in your late 30's early 40's and you will 100% be overtaken by someone who shows stability and loyalty. I do this for a living…your salary will plateau and should the stable individual play their cards right, their earning multiple should grow.
Pretty brave move to spend two decades getting paid a lot less in the hope some other company recognizes your loyalty!
Your assuming the employee is always below market…some times people don't want to learn new systems, working styles or risk working for a new company to then realise the boss is a prick.
@sydsm: Are you an internal recruiter trying to dangle a carrot. The market is hard, sorry on ya folks. How are the the hiring managers coping having to cough out than what they are paid.
I had the same dilemma. Moving jobs pays, in this climate. I'm of the opinion that even if you could get them to raise your pay now, how does that reflect on them as a good employer? Do you want to do the same 18 months from now again? Loyalty goes both ways.
Just move on. I'm pretty lucky as my boss is awesome. Got 10% raise twice since I started 20 months ago. My seniors also got a 7.5% raise without asking.
What industry are you in?
I'm an electrical engineer at a small consultancy.
And underpaid by 25k? How many years experience?
Start applying for new jobs.
Any decent elec engineer can walk into a new role with ease in the realm of engineering I work in (automation/control systems)
Just be frank but civil and sincere about it: "What's my chances of getting a raise this year, boss?". Best yet, arm yourself with an interview with another company then you'll have an idea what's out there at least.
i dont know what industry you are in, but in engineering where I am (hunter region) its such a small market that if you go to a couple of interviews someone normally comes back and tells your current company you are looking around.
Might be enough to scare them into trying to keep you and saves you needing to threaten to leave which never ends well IMO.
Construction product distribution
Sounds like you're in a hot market then. From this post and your responses, it sounds like you like your job but but your employer
If I was in your position I'd look for a job elsewhere and leave. When your get an offer It's probably worth telling your current employer and seeing what they counteroffer, but I think your goal should be to leave the company
@Bren20: Thanks, I don't like playing people off each other as I am a loyal person - values mean a lot to me, but I use Ozbargain as a sounding board from time to time.
@mousie: I think you need to reconsider your loyalties, and consider what exactly you're getting out of it. I'm not saying that your loyalties are misplaced, as I don't know your situation
Don't think of it as playing people off each other, it's giving your current employer an opportunity to counter offer. Would they rather have the opportunity to counter offer and keep you, or do they not value you as much as another employer would.
Reading this thread, I reckon your way forward is this
unless there's something your employer is providing that another wouldn't, I don't understand your motivations for staying
also contributed to top line revenue growth and bottom line improvement
Can you actually determine this in a monetarily provable way ? If so talk to your manager and try to be reasonable with him/her, just state you have been promising me a raise for 18 months and I am at the end of my tether, state how much money you made them/saved them and tell them you expect x amount of wage increase or you will have to move on to another job, then see how they respond, if they say no, then they never intended to give you the raise and they have been stringing you along the entire time anyway.
Communicate what you need and at worst you know what position you are in with the company then you can determine your next course of action.
I recently asked for a meeting with my bosses as my position was coming up for renewal and wanted to chat about direction etc.
I was clear in the email. I specifically stated the discussion would be around role clarity, direction, processes and outcomes.
Bosses aren't dumb. They know it is a super competitive market and that people will simply move on. I stated what I thought I was worth. I backed it up with evidence of my performance, tasks and responsibilities.
They actually thought I was undervaluing myself and suggested a higher figure. I then wrote out a new JD outline specifying the changes and renumeration discussed and forwarded to them. It's in the process of being, well, processed.
To give you an idea, I asked for a $40k payrise based our discussion, their suggestions and comparisons to similar roles. If it doesn't pan out, then I know where I am at and will move on. It also helps for them to know you are wanted by others. It is a 'you snooze you lose' scenario for employers at the moment
Sounds like the boss is abusing your loyalty and good work ethics.
Get a new job….
This type of employer will never come to the party with a competitive salary.
Either the business is not profitable enough to pay you properly or the boss thinks that he deserves your dollars more than you do.
I have been in a similar situation myself, same old feeble excuses, nothing changes.
Best bet is just to move on. You don't owe them a shred of loyalty.
there is lots of good advice about this on youtube, will pretty much give you scripts.
Early this year i was in a similar position, promised a decent raise for 2yrs but only got one tiny bump (smaller than cpi increase that year)
Lots more responsibility than 12 months ago, lots of direct customer interaction and managed my team well through lockdown.
Had a performance meeting with the boss in Feb (they had separate performance reviews which were followed by a bump if you were lucky) and pointed out that the level of effort and results I was getting wasnt reflected in my compensation. Made it very clear that if they didnt come back in the next few weeks I would have no choice but to start interviewing elsewhere. The key here is to state it without emotion, just present the facts and be confident.
I had done industry research before hand and my salary was well below industry average, so I knew that once they looked into it they would realise it would cost a lot more to replace me than I was being paid. The thing with this approach is you have be willing to follow through and move on.
Two weeks later there had been zero updates so I came home that night and started applying on seek. 3 weeks later I was out of there with more than a 25% increase for less responsibility. I keep in touch with my old workmates, took them another 8weeks to get a small increase, they are all still earning well below market rates.
It seems harsh but I've learnt over the years that its not worth trying to bash your head against a brick wall trying to convince a company that they arent paying enough. Chances are they know that and they just rely on people being too lazy/tired to bother looking elsewhere.
UNEMPLOYMENT IS ABOUT TOO BOOM, My guess, from <5% to 15% as soon as this years end and may go higher. Were all living on the last of the printed money that was pumped into the economy but soon as it runs out and inflation takes off, putting the nail in many small businesses and companies (USA TECH is sacking on a scale thats never been seen before) ~ SO, DOES THE GOVERNMENT PRINT MORE MONEY AND FUEL INFLATION?
If you have asked for 18 months and nothing happened, get a new job. We sometimes are lazy to leave our comfort zones, but in the end does more harm than good for career progression/ salary, etc.
Thanks - no I haven't asked for the money, I was promised an increase based off knocking it out of the park, and getting things done. But promises weren't executed.
I feel for you. Take some time to process and best is to put yourself in the market and find out. You may even find a better package + enjoyable work for your liking.
Good luck 🤞
Get another job offer. If they want to keep you ask for payrise.
If not move on. Only way to get more money.
I was on 6 figure salary; 2.5 years ago. Until I changed job then was about to change job again this year which would have lead to my pay going up 50%. My current employer matched the salary to keep me.
So stay positive about moving companies. It always leads to more money.
Humble brag
Humble brag
You need to know what you can get (not could get) at another company. That is a key bargaining requirement. Otherwise the retort is "why should I pay you more?" The threat has to be there that you'll jump ship and go to the competition, otherwise your bargaining power is virtually nil.
I’d they have promised but not given then your way to a pay rise is to leave
Start wearing really good clothes to work, get tidy hair cut, or other shit to make u look smarter than usual
Take time off blocks of three hours
Leave notes on ur notebook / leave seek open
Now is the best time to get a new job. Might get harder when the borders open
The borders are open…..
Oops my bad… I meant when more international workers return
You start by looking for a new job.
Every single day you put off getting your full worth is money in your bosses' pocket. You're probably helping him pay off one of his investment properties.
Change jobs, thats what i did.
start looking, tell your boss that you want to use his detail as reference. mine wont move his ass until i start taking day offt to attend interviews and he got calls for reference.
What's with companies and not increasing on a annual or biannual schedule. It saves the 20% sudden jump in salary in this case, if the company just increased every year based on performance and market conditions.
simple - look elsewhere, get a job offer at a higher salary, then take that to your boss
"here's what I'm offered elsewhere, I'm happy to stay here IF you can match it, otherwise I'll be going over there … I need to respond to their offer by tomorrow …"
then stay silent and wait - that puts the pressure on them - (the first to speak loses) - and see what happens.
otherwise you're just looking wimpy and mealy-mouthed - until you come up with a simple ultimatum.
It called “free market” for a reason, don’t be against the principle of free market to grab the opportunity that fit your value. Have a look at this comprehensive guide on salary negotiation, my favourite of all time: https://youtu.be/88qJyGU3DIA
I work in HR….if that matters. Some of the above comments are fanciful and leaving sometimes equates to higher salary, more work responsbility, unhappy working arrangements etc. IE, the grass is NOT ALWAYS GREENER! OP, you sound logical, so here goes.
Suggested steps:
1 - collect market intelligence on how the employment market values your role in financial terms, ie, base (fixed), bonuses if applicable (variable pay). You should benchmark at least 2-3 competitors of similar size / role scope.
2 - be prepared to furnish examples of role scope creep (ie additional duties furnished on you over the past 18 months) and how you have delivered.
3 - Leadership - not good enough to say you manage a larger team, what has the impact of the team been on the organisation.
4- Your personal value (non financial) - how do you upskill the organisation and what will they lose if you departed. Financiall; prepare specific information about the top line and bottom line financial accreditive value you have achieved.
5 - What is your ask. Do not brag like one of the other comments above. Focus on the non emotive part and be genuine. I.e.. "I do not personally feel comfortable asking for a raise, however the market has shifted in XXX direction and I would like to speak with you first before I consider moving on. Coming to your manager with good intentions will ensure they are relaxed and reduces 'shock'. You can guage immediately their reaction and if they will support your raise. Then clearly set your baseline expectation based on the above facts. I would like $x base salary based on the value I bring to this organisation".
6 - Make a commitment, eg I enjoy working here and would like to stay for X years.
7 - Follow up, if they agree, what are the next steps, stakeholders who need to sign off on it (unsure your org's size), and when it will happen. This could be next pay cycle, or next FY etc.
If you make it emotional (boastful, agitated/aggressive. vindictive), the conversation is less about performance and more indicative that you are not genuine and will leave anyways. Be prepared to let them know what your expectation is, but more so, you may leave for a better offer if they cannot meet your expectations. Leaving for the sake of leaving is never a good idea.
Good luck - reach out if you need more help.
Yes it matter that you work in HR. Unfortunately I'd say it works against your credibility. Ask yourself when the last time was that someone followed the steps you're proposing and got anything other than a token increase? Yes moving jobs is a risk and OP might be unhappy in a new role, but roles change and with time OP may become unhappy in the current role too. The future isn't promised.
I followed the above process myself a few weeks ago and got a 40% raise after years of minor incremental salary growth…my base salary was not low to start with. If you ask for a raise every time the wind blows, you lack credibility… if the OP wanted to move employers he would have. He clearly enjoys working for that organisation, and salary is only one piece of being valued and rewarded.
In my experience a 40% raise in this climate is remarkable and not the norm for just asking in the right way or with the right frequency if you're paid fairly to begin with. I've only ever asked for a raise once, early in my career, and that proved to be a mistake. I moved and got a substantial bump and never looked back.
@syousef: You are being prescriptive. Your situation most likely is not applicable to the next person esp if you didn't get a raise when you were junior and most likely unable to demonstrate value. Because you failed, you assume others may fail. Maybe this is why you didn't get the raise (didnt ask enough questions and made certain assumptions), or the company has tight budgets, or unable to pay more due to revenue stagnation, cost containment etc. There are so many considerations. The reason why others pay more is that they don't know your short falls or they are buying skills / pair of hands. Just saying… food for thought. Some times moving employers, sectors, countries is what it takes to realise your potential and worth.
@sydsm: I am being prescriptive whereas you are being objective? Is that right? Your one off personal experience is more universal than my one off personal experience? Because I failed I assume others will fail yet because you succeeded you aren't assuming others will succeed?
Many companies have very strict rules about pay rises. In the extreme case in public sector there is often a cap that is prescribed by law. The job I was talking about was actually with a large consulting firm, and it didn't matter what I was going to say or do, the biggest pay rise I could expect was a low single digit percentage. Often you can't even get in front of a person with authority to allow an increase to match your worth. Sometimes the company is set up such that one does not exist.
Your food for thought comes of as condescension.
Nine times out of ten the time that you have the strongest position to negotiate with your employer is when you aren't their employee yet, you already have another job, and it's trivial to walk away. And if you discover then that there's not someone with the authority to give you the salary you believe you're worth, you just move on to the next job interview.
@syousef: Interesting ratio you threw in. Couldn't agree with you more on most of the other parts of your statement, there are implications which can negate a rise: "Some times moving employers, sectors, countries is what it takes to realise your potential and worth".
Sounds like OP has to now do HR's job role and not be paid for it. For most employees, to determine their worth to the organization, without access to organizations financials, is impossible. For your next job, make sure they can offer you an annual performance review, as a condition employment, that way, good work and development will automatically get you a carrot.
He asked for tips…people with such attitudes you displayed typically expect everything without lifting a finger. You can wait, or you make make it happen by being prepared with information.
Send meme to your boss "Y U NO PAY RISE"
Never threaten to leave. Just leave. Best way forward is to move on. Your current employer has had their chance to give you that raise.
If I were you, id list out everything your doing great - performance, time savings, efficiency, minimised risk to company, worth to the company etc etc.
Literally, you are selling yourself at why your so good for the job and that you are worth more than what your being paid.
Get examples of other jobs and tell them the pay comparison.
Tell them why you enjoy the job and want to stay, rather than leaving.
You really should only leave your job if you don't like it.
If you don't have the guts to ask for a raise, then it's an issue with yourself, not your job.
Being upfront with your employer is incredibly advantageous, as it shows maturity, loyalty and dedication.
However, if you choose the ultimatum path and they pay you more, it may not go in your favour and inevitably force you to change jobs in the future..
Up to you though my man. If you dont think they will not budge at all or you want a new job elsewhere, just do that. Otherwise, get the facts together - write them down and take them with you for a 1 to 1 with your boss.
Also doesn't hurt to remind yourself "I'm worth it".
Hope everything turns out well for you!
Gimme monies plezzz boss man!!!!
Jokes aside, I would do the following:
Set up a meeting with your boss to discuss your remuneration
If the above outcome is negative, then I would start applying for other jobs. In my experience in the field of I.T, after 5 years in the industry, you should roughly get a ~20% pay rise when moving to another job.
I always use this same analogy. A job is extremely similar in many ways to a relationship, from interviewing with an employer is like first dates, both parties wow each other. Then the ongoing phase of working there and keeping up the relationship. It comes to a point where either party is complacent, i.e. you don't put in effort and slack off or the employer in this case doesn't value you anymore through remuneration etc.
People who go out and hunting for a new job is essentially like cheating if you think about it, it's a human mindset, they like the safety net of keeping the job but then going out to explore and see what's better.
This is the mindset you need to put forward I feel, and the best way is to talk it over first. Like someone mentioned a formal meeting to outline that you are putting in more effort and work but are not remunerated enough for this, there has been mentions of it, but it's been 18 months and still no increase. Give them a timeframe of how long you expect them to come back with an updated salary for your role, it's basically an ultimatum for them to change. Now if they don't meet that time frame or even meet it earlier than the deadline you've set, honestly start looking, they no longer value you.
Don't be emotionally attached to a job. At the end of the day working at a job for many years will earn you some leeway in difficult times in your life, but if you suddenly had many complications in your life and you need more time to deal with it, you can be certain the business would act in their own interest and let go of you.
Nicely put.
So I should ask for a dog, then house then baby then marriage just like a relationship and be miserable 😂
J/k I have used this analogy that the work relationship and even interviews are like first dates.
When you set a meeting make sure:
Make sure you have a follow up session, booked straight after this one, if they say they will get back to you/see what they can do/investigate options.
Have you tried applying for a new job elsewhere yet? Don’t feel sorry to do so as it is just “business” nothing personal and goes both ways, employees want highly paid jobs and employers want lowly paid employees. Time to move on unless you are happy to work there without a pay rise for the rest of your life.
Im not skilled in think but off the top of my head, go for a few other roles you're interested in and let your boss know you'd like them to be a reference 😁 see how they take it before you ask
1) genuine justification that you are doing work beyond your pay grade. Have you got your job/role description? Just do a little run through of that and check off what you are already doing and then list out some of the additional tasks you might be performing particularly those that you might be autonomous, unsupervised and are personally responsible for that make your manager, and their manager's jobs easier. Don't be pedantic, only list the big tasks and responsibilities.
2) when you have gone above and beyond, and, crucially, when you anticipate you will continue to go above and beyond. Like working late, working early, working weekends, just getting sht done. And don't labour the point, like you're doing unpaid overtime, but rather that you appreciate that you work in a role that is very time critical and when someone has a problem, to them, their problem is the most important in the world! So you know how to prioritise and manage your time, work as part of a bigger team if needed and delegate if needed and still get sht done
3) know what you are asking for. Do your research. Somewhere like glassdoor.com have published ranges of salaries that you can look in to for someone with a similar level of experience. Have that evidence base handy and know exactly what you want. Don't just say a raise. Ask for what you think you are worth to the company. Best expressed as either a lump sum, like 20K or as a % increase, whichever sounds the most reasonable. Lump sums generally for <100k and %'s work better for anything above
And be prepared to take no for an answer, but potentially have a strategy in place. Like, looking elsewhere, and potentially using any job offers as a bargaining chip with your current employer. This is an employees market at the moment. You could walk in to a number of other similar roles and pretty much set your salary. Your immediate manager might not know that, but the higher ups and HR will. There's just no one out there to hire if you leave and they'd have to readvertise, interview, retrain (months?) and probably offer 25% more than they are paying you to hire anyone!
The way the world works (and especially the last decade under Liberals and Scomo). Permanent low wages. Every year be happy you get even a 2% increase. Good to see the decision today to increase minimum wage by 5.2%
Customers pay a loyalty tax in terms of being loyal to company, and employees pay a loyalty tax as well. Companies do not value experience etc. Heck, unless you burned the office down, the extra productivity you have vs someone from the outside coming in, should be worth a decent raise. Inflation is 5%. Anything less is a wage cut. I just cant wait for this year annual review and have the company say that times are tough, we can only afford 2% raise, meanwhile skyhigh profits, and they are probably paying new starters in the same role at least 10 - 20% more in the labour shortage.
some may be incentivized for burning the place down if the insured value is less than the cost to rebuild j/k
good perspective, thank you
So what is asking going to achieve?
If you're determined to 'ask'
You could request a meeting, and in that meeting raise that in the last 18 months you have had no performance based salary increase, despite the promises. In that 18 months you detail the additional tasks, responsibilities and revenue benefits you have produced.
Provide evidence of similar roles elsewhere and their current salary expectations and how your current salary appears to be not keeping up with current market rates.
You need to realise that a 'no' could easily be the result of this meeting though.
Alternatively,
Look for jobs elsewhere and either utilise as evidence of an offer elsewhere or change jobs.