Is the Human body more complex than a supercomputer or any mechanical or civil engineering structure?

Cases like this is unsurprisingly very common all over the world in the medical industry. People expect medical professionals know everything about the human body(assuming 100 years of medical improvement and well-documented case history and years of training). It's like going to a modern top civil engineer to execute a simple road project.

In a civil or mechanical or any other complex structure, it's very rare to commit the same mistake twice anywhere in the world and succeed. Because the consequences will be immediate in most cases.

But in the case of the Medical industry, the human body is complex and causes or effects can't be determined by the experience of the bunch in the medical industry because of the nuances and variables that exist in humans and their lifestyles. Irrespective of wrong advice (or correct depending on how you look at it) is given by authorities, the body tries to repair itself until it can't anymore.

You don't know what that particular "patient" has been fed his whole life and his or her mother's gestation diet and lifestyle. I don't remember any doctor asking them.

Is it the same with 90% of scientific studies? (Where we assume that peer-reviewed studies should be true ignoring the fact of the nuances and variables). We can't do any 100% accurate scientific study following or case-controlled long term studies for obvious reasons (ethical, financial and others).

According to me, variables include Diet, lifestyle, Mom's diet and lifestyle, and age of conception.

We want everything to be diagnosed in some medical way so that we can get treatment. If that is the case rich people will never die early.

From diet studies to drug trials there are a lot of missteps and corruption goes under the normal people's radar (On which most medical professionals depend)

We assume Autism, ADHD, Diabetes, Vascular diseases, Cancer, and Alzheimer's as different medical conditions that our body was not able to adopt in the thousands of our evolutionary history(Our body adapts to viruses and bacteria, but not to these "diseases"). They are the physical manifestation of the variables which I mentioned above. Most of the disease humans get doesn't exist in wild animals only in human pets.

No one want's to own their own health and instead blame medical negligence. You should know more about your body than any of the doctors.

Enough of my rant. What do you think? I know 99% of people will bombard me.

Poll Options

  • 4
    Medical professionals know everything
  • 38
    Medical professionals know very little
  • 9
    Every individual should know better about their own body and be responsible.
  • 2
    We eat whatever we want. Medicines will fix our diseases.
  • 2
    We want free dental care because our teeth are getting destroyed by frequent consumption of sugars
  • 4
    The medical system is broken

Comments

  • +11

    Okay, you have no training in anything even remotely medical or nutritionwise. Why is your 'take' on all of this so important, exactly?

    • OP Trying to peel the layers of the onion?

      • +10

        Can't wait for the next layer.

        "If humans evolved from monkeys, why do we still have monkeys?"
        "I saw someone eating chips the other day, why do they accept cancer into their brain? Have they been tricked by Big Pharma?"
        "Petrol makes the car go so putting more petrol in the car makes car go faster, not a mechanic but why don't people put most petrol in their cars and save time [NOT ILLEGAL]"
        "science thinks it knows everything but its gone too far i've seen jurassic park stop eating sugar and someone help me ouija board now possessed by malevolent spirit maybe isaac newton send help already tried eating radishes help"

        • +1

          Sounds like you may have had some thought experiment too ;)

  • +12

    What exactly is the question being asked here?

    • +1

      What question? It is in the title:

      Is Human body is complex than a super computer or any mechanical or civil engineering structure?

      • +15

        That's not what the poll options indicate and many of the options are not mutually exclusive.

        • The poll options do not appear to have any relevance to the question (either the initial version or the updated).

          • +1

            @GG57: Review OPs post history and you'll see the poll options fit perfectly within that context

  • +4

    Ahh the rabbit hole is deep with this one.

    • Definitely a void somewhere with the OP.

  • +6

    Is Human body is complex than a super computer or any mechanical or civil engineering structure?

    say what now? do you even English?

    • English isn't my first language. Is it good now?

      • +5

        The question is now valid.
        Unfortunately the poll answers do not relate to the question.

        • I don't think anyone disagrees with whether the human body is complex or not. But people have differing opinions on how the medical industry functions and our responsibility for our health (hence the options).

          • +2

            @[Deactivated]: You are most likely correct, but that isn't the question.

          • +1

            @[Deactivated]:

            I don't think anyone disagrees with whether the human body is complex or not.

            Then why is that the question you ask in the title?

            But people have differing opinions on how the medical industry functions and our responsibility for our health (hence the options).

            Then why is that not the question you ask in the title?

  • +2

    Yes

  • +2

    Well given we can't reproduce human organs and body parts but we can make those other things, I would say yes the human body is more comlex.

    • +2

      And mostly when we "make" components of the body, the techniques are leveraging cellular machinery (DNA, RNA, polymerases, enzymes etc) to do the work. If we had to build it from basic components from scratch, we would have no hope in most cases.

      So if the analogy is with building a car, it's like finding a bunch of car parts and a set of machines that can assemble a car out of them and we have learned how to manipulate and control the parts and machines to make a car.

      • And mostly when we "make" components of the body, the techniques are leveraging cellular machinery (DNA, RNA, polymerases, enzymes etc) to do the work. If we had to build it from basic components from scratch, we would have no hope in most cases.

        Why do organs fail in the first place for some people? Even if they can produce new organs they won't be accessible to everyone.

        So if the analogy is with building a car, it's like finding a bunch of car parts and a set of machines that can assemble a car out of them and we have learned how to manipulate and control the parts and machines to make a car.

        According to your analogy car cannot fix by itself. But in the case of humans if you change your diet your organs will repair themselves (for example fatty liver) without any medical intervention.

        • +2

          For conditions that are related to diet, yes that's true (fatty liver is specifically related to diet in most cases). But there are many conditions that are completely unrelated to diet. Diet alone will not cure glioblastoma, or myeloma, or triple negative breast cancer or a broken leg.

          • @lunchbox99:

            Diet alone will not cure glioblastoma, or myeloma, or triple negative breast cancer

            Nothing cures cancer. Even medical interventions like chemical attacks don't cure underlying metabolic damage in the body. The recurrence of Cancer is very high if you don't change your diet and lifestyle. But you can prevent them with a good diet.

            broken leg

            Well, definitely you can prevent osteoporosis by having a good diet and resistance training and increasing bone density. Diet can't cure a broken leg. It needs some external intervention.

            • +5

              @[Deactivated]:

              But you can prevent them with a good diet.

              False. Good diet and good health lower your overall risk for many (but not all) cancers, but surely you are aware that even fit and healthy people are diagnosed with cancer all the time.

              • -2

                @lunchbox99:

                fit and healthy people are diagnosed with cancer all the time.

                I am not aware of that. Fit people are not necessarily healthy. People can be healthy without being fit. If you are fit and healthy like me(I got visible Abs always at age 35 so I am fit and I don't have any health issues) you won't get cancer. It would help if you understood metabolic health and how inflammation in the body occurs to prevent it. Clearly, cancer was rare and increasing nowadays because of our modern diet. Mitochondrial health is key to preventing cancers.

                • +3

                  @[Deactivated]: Sorry, I disagree. Your statement that if you are fit and healthy that you won't get cancer is frankly nonsense.

                  • @lunchbox99: Well, let's face it, there aren't any instances of young babies (who haven't had a history of poor dietary habits) getting cancer or, well, otherwise healthy athletes getting cancer.

                    And I don't remember any mentions of cancer in the Bible, the Declaration of Independence or (some other historical document, maybe those Roman ones) so it's obviously a new disease too.

                    In conclusion, cheetos give you cancer but if chester cheetah lived in the wild [yes chester that means WITHOUT sunglasses which are a scam anyway] then he wouldn't catch it.

                    • +4

                      @Crow K: Cancer is not a new disease. Sorry that is also nonsense.

                      Being fit and healthy lowers your RISK of developing cancer but it not reduced to zero. That is simply untrue.

                      Some cancers, such as those predominantly driven by genetics have very little impact from health and diet.

                      Well, let's face it, there aren't any instances of young babies (who haven't had a history of poor dietary habits) getting cancer or, well, otherwise healthy athletes getting cancer.

                      Is this a sick joke? Go visit a hospital or a children's hospital oncology department. This complete and utter fabrication.

                      • +1

                        @lunchbox99: I agree with you entirely and was assuming the mantle of the peeltheonion's bizarre logic for my own amusement.

                        • +1

                          @Crow K: Oh sorry, sarcasm is hard to detect in text sometimes!

                      • @lunchbox99: Don’t worry about trolls who try to imply something which I didn’t tell. Of course cancer is old disease and babies get as well. But if you can’t deny cancer was a rarer disease. There are genetic factors that cause cancer. But you should trigger them with diet and lifestyle. In the case of babies getting cancer, I have mentioned on the top that mothers' gestational diet is as important as our diet.

                        • @[Deactivated]: As I said earlier, it is generally true that being fit and healthy leads to better outcomes and diet and exercise are important contributors to that.

                          I just don't agree that being fit and healthy or having a healthy diet means the risk of developing cancer (or most other illness) is zero. It's not a magical shield, but obviously all else being equal you are definitely better positioned if you are fit and healthy.

                • @[Deactivated]: Yeah, sorry mate, but no. All of the above is just rubbish.

                  You're no different to anyone else because you've got visible abs. Abs are not going to stop you getting cancer.

                  "Metabolic health" and "inflammation" are wonderful woo words that have little meaning - are you here to sell something?

                  And "cancer was rare and increasing" is such a red flag. Yes, cancer DIAGNOSIS is up 67% for the last 20 years. Does that mean there is more cancer? As for a modern diet, did you see the shit we've been eating the past 50 years?

                  Mitochondrial health eh. Woo.

                  • @foursaken: Yes I don’t know how ICBM works. So it’s woo. I am not selling anything. Did I mention anything for sale. What you can’t comprehend not necessarily woo.

                    • @[Deactivated]:

                      What you can’t comprehend not necessarily woo.

                      Nah, it's woo. I'd put my house on it. This is the internet, and you have no idea of my background. Suggesting you can selectively improve the health of an organelle and its electron transport chain is pure garbage.

                      Google/random web pages are not good sources of knowledge.

                      • @foursaken:

                        you have no idea of my background

                        If you know everything, then why don't you help in Cancer research in the medical industry which is not able to figure out the reason for the cause of cancer?

                        Suggesting you can improve the health of an organelle and its electron transport chain is pure garbage

                        Mitochondria is an ancient bacteria which lived inside in symbiosis and helped multicellular creatures to evolve independently many times and has its own DNA. It is the main source of ATP production. When you destroy power plants, it may not cause cancer. But its health is very important for healthy metabolism and preventing cancer. Both have correlations.
                        Any wrong with this, please let me know?

                        • @[Deactivated]: I was in research. I prefer my far more highly paid, secure job, with good conditions to working with highly toxic and radioactive chemicals, killing animals, and generally working like a dog that could be unemployed tomorrow through no fault of my own.

                          https://www.nature.com/articles/nrc3365
                          "Contrary to conventional wisdom, functional mitochondria are essential for the cancer cell." Not surprising, really.

                          Anyway, you've read some stuff and taken some stuff away, but not enough to be a scientist, eh, more like first year biology. That's not a bad thing though, I'm always shocked at how ignorant people are about how their own body functions.

  • +3

    This seems to take "you are what you eat" to a whole new level.

    We assume Autism, ADHD, Diabetes, Vascular diseases, Cancer, and Alzheimer's as different medical conditions that our body was not able to adopt in the thousands of our evolutionary history(Our body adapts to viruses and bacteria, but not to these "diseases"). They are the physical manifestation of the variables which I mentioned above. Most of the disease humans get doesn't exist in wild animals only in human pets.

    There's a pretty clear and obvious reason why half of these haven't been fixed by evolution, they mostly happen after procreating (except autism and ADHD, diabetes has a clear link to diet though). There's no evolutionary benefit to extending life once the baby making part is done.

    The idea that it just relates to food though is a bit weird, they probably relate to external factors but that's not surprising, everything can be traced back to genetics and external factors, this is not a new breakthrough that you've made.

    Anyway, I suggest balancing your humors and doing a cocaine and you'll clear those ghosts out of your blood by morning.

    • There's no evolutionary benefit to extending life once the baby making part is done

      Then why do some people live a long life without any of these diseases?

      The idea that it just relates to food though is a bit weird, they probably relate to external factors but that's not surprising, everything can be traced back to genetics and external factors, this is not a new breakthrough that you've made.

      Not only food but also lifestyle

      Anyway, I suggest balancing your humors and doing a cocaine and you'll clear those ghosts out of your blood by morning

      I train every day to get my demons out. But when I see such news, they come back.

      • Then why do some people live a long life without any of these diseases?

        Why is 100 years considered a long life? The universe is billions of years old and we act like 120 is some kind of miracle. There's no secret, some people just have less flaws in their bodies from the get go and get lucky in everything in life.

        Not only food but also lifestyle

        That is a pretty generic, non-medical term. We know that what happens to the human body is a huge mix of things that you could summarise as "lifestyle". Much of it is food and "lifestyle" related but you can't define our entire lives by that. Radiation exposure changes it, infections can have long lasting impacts, how our own bodies respond to different things (levels of inflammation, for example) can have an impact on our lives. Sometimes cancer is based on lifestyle and diet, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes it's random luck of a tumourous cell happening to have the stuff around it at a certain time to start growing out of control.

        Your incredibly wordy piece could be broken down to "our health is based on how our life unfolds".

        I train every day to get my demons out. But when I see such news(abc.net.au), they come back.

        I recommend doing more of a cocaine then.

  • +1

    maybe stick to what you are good at!
    peeling onions

    • That's what I am doing

      • +1

        as in stop posting stop replying, get off ozbargain and peel those darn onions! :P

        • I will do that if you djonesing. If you think what I said is stupid, the same applies to what you are saying me to do.

          • @[Deactivated]: There's an idea for a new poll…

            Which would be a more productive use of your time:

            a). Peeling onions

            b). Posting more forum topics or replies to those topics.

  • I don't know how to answer your question, but I do know op hasn't worked with too many engineer's.

  • I didn't comprehend what you were going on about in your post but to answer your title, infinitely more complex

  • +1

    I really don't know what your point is. You're both saying the human body is very complex, and your diet determines everything. You state that the medical profession is corrupt. You also don't seem to understand natural selection or population statistics.

    Go Google conspiracy theories and reflect on your unevidenced, unfounded opinions, and why you feel you might know more than anyone else.

    • You're both saying the human body is very complex, and your diet determines everything. You state that the medical profession is corrupt.

      Yes I am saying all the above. Do you have differing opinions on these?

      You also don't seem to understand natural selection or population statistics.

      Why is that? How natural selection is misunderstood by me, where I am asking why only humans and human pets have these diseases and not animals in the wild which eat what they are supposed to. What a healthy long living human is doing differently to a kid with Autism. Isn't it a question to ponder about?

      Go Google conspiracy theories and reflect on your unevidenced, unfounded opinions.

      I don't go to any conspiracy forums. Just I could see through non sense in anything which makes me ask these questions.

      • What makes you think wild animals don't get diseases?

        • I didn’t told any disease. Just lifestyle diseases chronic diseases which humans get.

      • The human body is very complex.

        Diet is one input. It hardly determines "everything". Genetics, toxins (such as lead), nurture, nature, etc. There are so many factors. Pinning anything on one is difficult; pinning everything on one is simply woo.

        The medical profession is far from corrupt. I'm sorry that you've obviously had bad experiences here, but most people who go into medicine go for the right reasons. Whenever something is publicly funded, there needs to be transparency, checks, balances. We've not had a lot of those things in the last decade. It's not the profession or professionals that are corrupt.

        Something about the body adapting to diseases? 1) Immune system. 2) Natural selection doesn't work like that. Humans wont "evolve" diseases away, ever.

        Diabetes, Vascular diseases, Cancer, and dementia are all diseases that can be found in wild animals. Autism and ADHD are spectrum disorders possibly unique to humans because they're most of all SOCIAL disorders. You're trying to talk about lifestyle diseases without quite getting there. But I still don't understand what you're trying to say.

        Yes, humans have a lot of lifestyle disease disability and death. But dogs eat chocolate.

        I carry about 10kg more than I should. I used to smoke. I took far too long to manage a couple of other chronic conditions. All "I" things - no one else's fault. Nothing to do with the medical industry or corruption. Peeps ARE responsible for their own health, full stop.

  • +4

    Yowsers, a couple minutes of my life I ain't getting back.

  • +2

    Over recent years I've had one medical issue after another where going to the doctor has resulted in the cure being worse than the disease. Faulty medication that put me in hospital. Medication with side effects that gave me a serious chronic medical condition. And the latest where I suspected one of the previous might have made it risky for me to have covid vaccination, being persuaded it wouldn't, then to have precisely the sort of bad reaction I feared.

    So, after this, I'm very much in the camp now of being thoroughly convinced that doctors know far less than they try to persuade us they know, and far less than they think. And its not even any use trying to own it yourself, and doing research to inform myself on the reputable parts of the internet, and telling them, they still think they know better than the person its happening to.

    There are a great many things I'd have no hesitation going to a doctor about. A wound. A broken bone. But when it comes to less clear and more rare medical conditions out there, there's just so many of them that its just not possible for a GP to know about them all. So they assume its something that they do know about, and diagnose and treat it as that. I had the most common adverse event associated with the type of covid vaccine I was given. My GP treated it as arthritis. And when went back to him and pointed out what might really have been, he admitted he'd never heard of it.

    Its gotten to the point where GPs need help from technology. They need an online AI that THEY can consult if the patient's problem isn't totally clear that tells them the things they should check.

  • +1

    Try dealing with infertility and you realise how little of the human body and function we can control.

  • +3

    Dental plan!

    • Lisa needs braces

      • Dental plan!

  • -1

    Most of the disease humans get doesn't exist in wild animals only in human pets.

    Yeah it's almost like you won't find too many autistic/ADHD monkeys or lions because the rest of their tribe will happily murder the oddball monkey/lion that can't communicate with the group properly and won't join in on hunts and enjoys trains just a little too much.

    At the top of the food chain we try to be a little more civilised though.

  • Human body is massively complex. Its essentially the result of millions of trillions of biological computers running simultaneous equations across a multitude of spectrum. You'd probably need a brain the size of a bus to fully understand it.

    But more complexity =/= better
    and you don't always need to perfectly understand something to be able to manipulate it towards a positive end. Most of the time simple models are sufficient.
    You don't need to know how an engine operates to drive a car after all

  • We can make tens of trillions of transistors fit in a GPU chip but no ability to manufacture a human let alone some human parts.(I know it can be grown but it doesn't count)

    Come back again when we start producing human parts for spares then we have something to discuss. It's too early for this we still have a lot of catching up in terms of the human body.

  • Incomming Albanian knows everything?

  • None of the poll options felt like a meaningful statement.

    From the article, the event is being treated as a sentinel event, which from a quick googling is a death in care that is considered wholly preventable. The appropriate coronial and other inquiries are being undertaken.

    • But people go to hospitals expecting some sort of screening or scanning system like a mechanic does with the car connected to the computer.
      Eat or feed junk your whole life and when a problem comes run to hospital like it's normal thing to do.

      • That doesn't seem to be a relevant concern with regard to the story but in any case it is being investigated.

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