Is This Racism or Matter of Choice?

Ironh59 on 14/04/2022 - 18:30
Last edited 16/04/2022 - 18:55

I am originally not from Australia and you can tell from my name. I have been here for a long time and luckily haven't encountered many racist people. I truly believe Australia is very tolerant and accepting of different cultures.

Recently I posted a job on one of the popular find-a-tradie websites (not Airtasker or Hipages). This is how the conversation went:

Tradie: I would like to do the job.
Me: When can you come over to provide the quote.
Tradie: Really busy
Tradie: Are you from ******?
Me: That's fine, I will look at the other responses for now if you are busy.
Tradie: I don't work for *******s
Tradie: They are cheap

I raised a concern with the website support and ask them to add a field for ethnicity, so tradies can choose which ad to respond to and people like me can avoid such encounters.
Customer service didn't see any issues with it, they said it's a matter of choice for tradies and they can choose who they work for.

I have no issues with choice, only how the point was put across. That guy knew my ethnicity form my name, yet he chose to respond to my job.

I just wanted to check if I am overreacting. It's not like he came with a mob to burn my house. May be he had too many bad experiences with ****** people and just wanted to vent.

So Ozbargainers, is this racism or just a matter of choice that person is entitled to?

Edit: Thank you all for your comments. Apologies for not being able to respond to all of you. So far the consensus is that tradie is racist, however the best course of action is to move on. I posted a comment about reporting this behaviour which got some negs. I just want to clarify that I was not planning to report the tradie, I was planning to report the platform for endorsing it.

It isn’t a small job either, it’s bathroom and kitchen renovation. It’s lot of money, and I definitely wouldn’t want to pay someone who hates me because of who I am or where I was born.

For those who are curious about my background, most of you have guessed it right. I am from a cricket crazy nation and I have the same last name as some very popular cricketers.

Education & Work

Comments

    • [Deactivated] on 17/04/2022 - 15:07

      All the more reason to pay them what they ask/quote (and not haggle)!

  • plmko on 14/04/2022 - 23:09
    +1

    You should post a screenshot of the conversation with the tradie (but blur the name) and customer service responses on their business Facebook/twitter.

  • Jetstream on 15/04/2022 - 00:03
    +5

    That’s real crap, the world should be better.

    Name and shame seems appropriate

  • AustriaBargain on 15/04/2022 - 01:09
    +1

    If he’s a sole trader just forget about it, you can’t get him fired. If he as a Facebook or Google Maps reviews section, make sure you stick to the facts in case he hires a lawyer.

  • [Deactivated] on 15/04/2022 - 07:15
    -5

    I agree with tradie, too many tyre kickers or people wasting time getting numerous quotes these days, pay peanuts get monkeys.

    • morse on 15/04/2022 - 09:02
      +6

      But what does it have to do with OPs race?

      • [Deactivated] on 15/04/2022 - 09:19
        -4

        known for wanting cheap

        • morse on 15/04/2022 - 09:21
          +8

          So you’re racist too?

          • [Deactivated] on 15/04/2022 - 09:41
            -1

            @morse: difference between racist and telling it how it is

            • Deals For Days on 15/04/2022 - 11:09
              +4

              @[Deactivated]: No, that's textbook racism.

              Making negative generalisations about an enthic group is racist.

            • morse on 15/04/2022 - 13:50
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: We don’t even know which ‘race’ we’re talking about, how can it be telling it as it is?

              • [Deactivated] on 15/04/2022 - 16:27
                -1

                @morse: All the same

          • Scythic on 15/04/2022 - 09:48
            +3

            @morse: Pretty sure you are.

      • cookie2 on 15/04/2022 - 11:11

        So you have no reference for different races ever and at all? Never? We all do. But it shouldn't negatively impact others. It worries me when people can't admit or see that they have preference. It's natural.

        • morse on 15/04/2022 - 13:51
          +1

          That’s literally not what anyone said.

    • FlyingMiffy on 15/04/2022 - 09:28
      +3

      I agree until it's me that needs the trade… don't make enough money to be paying more than I should. In fact, the reason why people shop around is the same reasons we have ozbargain… trying to get a good deal!

    • baker bob on 15/04/2022 - 12:25
      +1

      Multiple quotes are obtained because some tradies are borderline criminals with the prices they charge. Pricing is based on how busy they are, not how good they are. No tradie sitting on his ass with no jobs scheduled is charging high prices regardless if they are a monkey or not.

      • [Deactivated] on 15/04/2022 - 12:49
        -1

        nah people like you just want to screw prices down /theend

  • [Deactivated] on 15/04/2022 - 07:35
    +10

    He’s probably been burnt by clients before and yes he’s probably making a generalisation.

    Try not to let it get to you, and move on to another tradie.

  • jacross on 15/04/2022 - 08:15
    +6

    In a world where racism can be kind of nebulous, this is textbook racism. (profanity) that shit.

  • DiscoJango on 15/04/2022 - 08:43
    +4

    To be honest, your only going to find bottom of the barrel trades on a task finding website. The good ones actually have steady employment on large resi/commercial sites.

  • Ocker on 15/04/2022 - 08:56

    Talk about a storm in a teacup

  • Jimb000 on 15/04/2022 - 09:01
    +6

    Disgusting, I hate racism and have experienced it many a time living in Australia.

    My uncle recently received a shocking text message from a walnut farmer that he ordered bulk walnuts from - in a nut shell, the racist, derogatory message he received from them blew my mind. I couldn’t actually believe that this person, who stated they were Scotch-Australian, wrote such utterly racist remarks to someone because they had a mediterranean surname. He subsequently cancelled his order, but blessed them for cursing him, as he was brought up to do.

    I want to add, though, that there are many absolutely wonderful people from all different backgrounds in Australia. There are also many more Anglo-Australians that are absolutely awesome people than you would believe! Don’t let the few bad eggs that have the strongest smell spoil things. I love Australia, it truly is the best country in the world.

    • Jetstream on 15/04/2022 - 10:29
      +5

      In a nut shell…. I see what you did there

      • Jimb000 on 16/04/2022 - 13:42

        I nutted that one out and thought it was the best way to describe

    • Hahuh on 16/04/2022 - 01:02

      Who else would buy walnuts from him? Mediterraneans are a big market.

      • Jimb000 on 16/04/2022 - 13:41

        i know you’d think the farmer would have a different attitude

  • [Deactivated] on 15/04/2022 - 09:24

    Why does it have to be or? It can be both, and sounds like it is in this case. Both of you are better off not working together.

  • MontyMacaw on 15/04/2022 - 09:29
    +3

    I don’t see any difference between this and being abused on a train. It’s racist abuse and should be dealt with as such. The site should have banned them instantly and OP should be able to report it to the police and they should act according to the law. What makes it less abusive? It can’t even fall under the Kiwi/Aussie excuse of over the ditch banter. I say stick it to them!

  • yjun355 on 15/04/2022 - 09:47

    OP, what was the other find a tradie website? I didn't know anything apart from HiPages or AirTasker existed

    • Scythic on 15/04/2022 - 09:49

      Facebook marketplace?

      • yjun355 on 15/04/2022 - 09:57

        lol

        • Scythic on 15/04/2022 - 10:19

          😆

  • GordonD on 15/04/2022 - 09:48

    OP, the story you are telling, as you are telling it, doesn't make sense, because he took the trouble to answer your advert despite it disclosing your name and your probable ethnicity, then chose not to do the job because of your ethnicity.

    Someone who negatively pre-judges someone else because of their ethnicity is a racist.

    That said, sometimes, repeat, sometimes, what looks like racial prejudice is actually racism learned from experience. The common example is cabbies who have repeated bad experiences with young Aboriginals refusing to pay the fare and running away, or worse, deciding that they wont pick up any Aboriginals because its too likely to end in a bad experience.

    People aren't all the same. However we choose to divide people into groups, there are cultural differences, and to the extent that those cultural differences do exist, we all go into experiences with people of our own or other cultures with slightly different expectations. We expect women to know more about some things, and men others. We are all expected to accept and accommodate those cultural differences. Its sexism or racism or whatever if we don't. It is sexism/racism/whatever if we expect a negative experience just because they aren't like us. The line between those two is sometimes a bit fuzzy.

    • Deals For Days on 15/04/2022 - 10:02
      +6

      I think the point was that he answered the ad then said no for racist reasons. The point for the racist is to inflict distress on the victim of the racism.

      • [Deactivated] on 15/04/2022 - 10:15
        +3

        Perhaps he looked at the job before the name? Then noticed it later. The point for the tradie is more likely to allocate his limited time where it benefits him most. Lesson learned. Check the name next time and don't bother replying? Unless you think it was his cunning plan to lure in all the ********s and inflict distress on those looking for tradies? If so, that is a very unique kink, and not one I have heard of before.

        • Speckled Jim on 15/04/2022 - 13:17
          +3

          It's opportunistic racism.

          He likely isn't into online activism. The centre/left focus protest on the political power base.
          The right uses the scattergun approach of victimising anyone guilty of bearing a name or skin tone they don't favour at the time.

          • [Deactivated] on 15/04/2022 - 13:44

            @Speckled Jim: Or maybe he just genuinely had bad experiences with *****s trying to cheap out or waste his time. Would you be less concerned if ***** was a group you didn't like, or perhaps a location? I can think of several suburbs with a wide variety of races, cultures, and skin tones that would likely receive similar treatment.

    • [Deactivated] on 15/04/2022 - 10:13

      The type of people that want to work as traides and cabbies are not the kind of anti-racists you'll find online saying how racist everything is. Part of why they decided to work for themselves was to make their own decisions about when, where, how, and with whom they work.

    • cookie2 on 15/04/2022 - 11:13
      +1

      100% agree re the line being fuzzy and racial prejudice vs racism. I think though to me, thinking it is the racial prejudice and that's ok to me. Saying it to the person of that race and denying service for it, makes it racist.

    • KLoNe on 15/04/2022 - 11:20
      -1

      This. Cops racial stereotype all the time - why wouldn't they, they literally have a shitload of data to go by.

      • Deals For Days on 15/04/2022 - 12:48

        Ah yes so police racism is fine because checks notes police arrest more minorities? What a circular argument.

  • belongsinforums on 15/04/2022 - 09:54

    Sorry to hear OP. There are dirtbags everywhere. I wonder if your name is something like harpreet Singh, otherwise it wouldn't be so easy to guess

  • 2esc on 15/04/2022 - 09:57
    +2

    I think society does have a tendency to overreact or jump to conclusions but he sounds racist to me. Look for another trade.

  • Cletus vandamme on 15/04/2022 - 10:24
    +3

    I'm ethnic and a tradesman. Stereotypes exist for a reason and the trades are often lowballed and we're sick of it. He might not want to waste his time as what usually happens from certain ethnic cultures. Was he racist, maybe. And yes you are overreacting over something quite trivial.

    • morse on 16/04/2022 - 01:37
      +2

      Racist tradie didn’t need to respond to the ad, it’s almost as if he responded just so he could be nasty. If he just didn’t want the job he could just say that without the need to say why.

  • WT on 15/04/2022 - 10:33
    +21

    Stereo types, vast majority (not all)

    Indians= Ball breakers and tightasses
    Chinese= tight asses
    Arabs= lazy tight asses
    caucasion = whiners

    If I havent offended you yet just state your ethnicity ill get right back to you

    • LFO on 15/04/2022 - 12:56
      +9

      Blacks = not my fault!

      Australians = I've done nothing wrong, ever.

      British = we know better

      • nobro25 on 17/04/2022 - 17:41
        +1

        Also Blacks = Get my race outta your (profanity) Mouth!

        • LFO on 18/04/2022 - 16:25

          Slap!

    • Miss B on 15/04/2022 - 23:05

      I'm Caucasian and you haven't offended me.

    • tomleonhart on 15/04/2022 - 23:47

      Vietnamese please. I sell drugs ?

      ps: do message me if you want any.

    • tik tok on 16/04/2022 - 18:31

      Australian Aboriginal

    • zorodluffy on 16/04/2022 - 19:49
      -3

      why have u said indians are ball breakers & tight asses and chiense only tight asses and arab lazy tight ass and only 1 word for caucasian?

      I know ur just being a dick, but call one race out MORE thne the others is racist

      u racist dirtbag

      • darkmattersunB6c0MV on 16/04/2022 - 21:47
        -1

        Someone got triggered.
        Calm your mind. Don't let others control your emotions.

        • zorodluffy on 17/04/2022 - 11:08

          U SHUT UP, U SHUT UP

    • darkmattersunB6c0MV on 16/04/2022 - 21:45

      Stereotypes <> Stereo types.

      • LFO on 18/04/2022 - 16:26

        Eternal types.

  • sir-screwball on 15/04/2022 - 10:34
    +12

    My father in law was like this. He refused to do business with one particular race and it wasn't because he didn't like them, it was because he got burned a handful of times by people of the same ethnicity so he opted out of dealing with them after that to be safe. After you lose 15k over the course of 3 to 5 jobs I guess you get resentful.

    He got called racist a few times but he held strong because he preferred to play it safe.

    • Deals For Days on 15/04/2022 - 11:07
      -3

      I mean that is the textbook definition of racism.

      • cookie2 on 15/04/2022 - 11:16
        +7

        Isn't it learning from experience and making choices based on past negative experience?

        • Deals For Days on 15/04/2022 - 11:18
          +6

          You're welcome to call it that, it's still racism. You're making a negative generalisation about a particular racist.

          '3-5' people don't represent an entire ethnic group…

          • sir-screwball on 15/04/2022 - 19:51
            +7

            @Deals For Days: I knew the guy really well, and he regularly worked with and for people of heaps of different backgrounds. He was a good old boy but his biggest client was a muslim fellow and his neighbour who he did work for a bunch of times was Asian. I'm telling you flat out, he wasn't a racist person. He chose to do jobs with "this race" a lot and he always struggled with getting them to pay, to pay the agreed amount, not to nickel and dime him. Then, the few jobs he did over the course of about 18 months saw him lose a significant amount of money that was unfortunately uneconomical to pursue so he just made a decision to avoid working with people of that race again.

            He was protecting his livelihood. He didn't WANT to cut ties with them, he just got sick of arguing with them over the bill all the time.

            • Autonomic on 19/04/2022 - 16:26

              @sir-screwball:

              I'm telling you flat out, he wasn't a racist person

              he just made a decision to avoid working with people of that race

              Lmao. He's a racist.

        • KLoNe on 15/04/2022 - 11:18
          +6

          This.

          It their own biz so they can work for whoever they want tbh.

          That's the best thing about owning your own business and putting in the effort to get to a stage where you can pick and choose your customers.

          Wage cucks will never understand.

          • cms1 on 15/04/2022 - 12:02

            @KLoNe:

            Wage cucks will never understand.

            Hello Willy Smith.

      • dufflover on 15/04/2022 - 14:07
        +1

        So? Sticks and stones …

        Racism is "wrong" but if it really is a tradie's market right now, at least with what they say with construction, then no surprise if they pick jobs based on racist bias to play it safe.

        The only real surprise is how upfront and shitty he went about it. Why bother responding to the ad …
        But as others have said all for the better. Better getting a tradie of good character likely to not do some spiteful half ass job.

        (I'm asian btw lol)

      • michaelTito on 15/04/2022 - 14:09

        i hate to ask. Which textbook are you referring to?

      • buffalo bill on 18/04/2022 - 22:42

        It's the textbook definition of cutting your losses

    • Ghost47 on 15/04/2022 - 15:20

      What race?

      • sir-screwball on 15/04/2022 - 19:53

        I'd rather not say. He had his reservations about working with them but I don't have those same reservations and would prefer not to disparage anyone.

  • May4th on 15/04/2022 - 10:56
    +2

    to be honest this happens way more commonly than people realise the smart ones just doesn't say it so overtly. if he didn't ask for the job and just avoided certain ethnicities he can do what he please, if he didn't ask/mention ethnicity everybody would be happy

  • Deals For Days on 15/04/2022 - 11:12
    +6

    I didn't realise so many people were happy to say the quiet part out loud.

    Refusing to do business with a certain ethnic group is racist. You're welcome to say 'oh well X number of people from Y Ethnic group ripped me off' or whatever justification you'd like - it's still racism.

    I've had plenty of bad experiences with people from other backgrounds to me. Doesn't mean I write off their entire ethnic group because I had a few bad experiences with some of them.

    • Cusack on 15/04/2022 - 23:02
      +3

      what's your limit though? Eg, if it was continually bad experiences 8 times out of 10.

      • wtfnodeal on 18/04/2022 - 20:54

        Based on its username I guess the answer is 999,999,999,999,999 times out of 1,000,000,000,000 because each of us is unique.

      • buffalo bill on 18/04/2022 - 22:59

        Thing is he probably works in the public sector, toes the department line and gets paid on payday.

        As a tradie or service business owner, you form profiles in your mind quickly as to what that client is going to be like (race forms part of that profile), because it can mean the difference between business failure and survival, and this carries over to family life.

        Ethnic tradies make generalisations too, it's not limited to white Anglo Australians. It just doesn't fit the narrative of some to mention that.

      • Autonomic on 19/04/2022 - 16:29
        -1

        None. If you're continually getting ripped off then implement something to prevent it.

  • KLoNe on 15/04/2022 - 11:16
    -2

    You made such a long thread. It's obviously rude and not how to run a service business.
    Report them to HiPages and toughen up.

    • ak47wong on 15/04/2022 - 13:09

      Recently I posted a job on one of the popular find-a-tradie websites (not Airtasker or Hipages)

  • DazMon on 15/04/2022 - 11:27
    +4

    On the other hand, I have seen white vans driving around my area (SE Melb) and they are advertising themselves as some sort of Tradesman, but apart from the word ELECTRICIAN (or whatever) and a mobile number, the rest is in simplified Chinese characters.

    • DemocracyManifest on 16/04/2022 - 14:19
      +1

      Nothing stopping from you from speaking to them haha but English is probably not their first English or they don’t speak it at all. I had a relative go on advice to a Vietnamese grocer as they had classifieds on a wall, they said call x, bloke came out and did a good job. Had a succession of people not reply or not bother turning up. It’s all luck sometimes

  • shaybisc on 15/04/2022 - 11:49
    +5

    Hey I don't want to cast aspersions but have you noticed something about any of those gatherings of Neo Nazis and other white Australia fanatics? Like the Nick Mackenzie doco now on Stan. They're nearly all tradies.

    https://www.stan.com.au/watch/revealed-amongst-us-neo-nazi-a…

    • DemocracyManifest on 16/04/2022 - 14:25

      I can guess the rabbit hole esp with covid lockdown

      leaves school early
      becomes apprentice
      keeps getting stiffed on cash
      starts own business
      keeps getting stiffed
      ends up back doing subbie work and is in competition with blokes who charge less and are from overseas
      people around them blame overseas workers
      internalises it
      can’t work due to restrictions: is stuffed
      looks for explanations - goes on YouTube and watches avi yemini and gets on telegram etc
      bingo - ‘I can’t work because of the globalist leftist pedo conspiracy and there’s defs hybrid children in the tunnels’ - ‘of course this is a conspiracy by the jews’

      I don’t know why it always seems to go back to the Jews with these people

  • Ghost47 on 15/04/2022 - 11:56
    +1

    What race was the tradie?

  • brendanm on 15/04/2022 - 12:46

    Not sure why people think op is Russian.

  • cms1 on 15/04/2022 - 12:47

    I am originally not from Australia and you can tell from my name.

    What's your name OP?

  • LFO on 15/04/2022 - 12:52
    -7

    I just wanted to check if I am overreacting.

    Yes you are.
    Racism and unwilling to accept rejection is different.

    is this racism or just a matter of choice that person is entitled to?

    A matter of choice.

    Tradie didn't want your job and, unfortunately, brought the ethnic card to justify his/her NO.

    Tradie is a weak person with flaky character; doesn't sound as racism otherwise he/she wouldn't ever even answer your work advert.

    • RolandWaites on 15/04/2022 - 13:42
      +5

      They answered the advert and their first thing was to sound out the person's race. It reads like they clicked a button to send a generic response, and their first active step was to sound out the person's skin colour.

      The scenario is little differnet to somebody:

      • Refusing to shop at a black-owned store because of who owns it
      • Refusing to send their children to an otherwise ordinary school because their kids will share classrooms with minorities
      • A taxi driver turning down an otherwise ordinary looking person who is black because of their race

      You might argue the tradie has the right to work for whomever they choose (or a person choosing to enter a black-owned shop, or pick up a black person in their taxi) — and they do — but that doesn't stop those decision being fundamentally racist.

      • darkmattersunB6c0MV on 16/04/2022 - 21:59

        Very well said.
        Causal racism is probably the worst, but still racism.
        Something as simple as moving your seat because an Aboriginal person decided to sit next to you.
        Or an Asian.
        Racism has been linked to mental and physical health problems, particularly depression and anxiety.
        Stereotypes are not healthy either.
        "Asian people cannot drive.."

        I know a lot of people who have experienced Racism in Australia, and seen it dished out in public transport. ( Yes, I did step in). Seventh country that I have worked in, each country had some elements of racism, but Australia takes the cake.
        Not so much in the metros like Sydney and Melbourne, but quite common in Adelaide, and Brisbane, and the smaller towns.

      • LFO on 17/04/2022 - 16:09
        -2

        They answered the advert and their first thing was to sound out the person's race.

        Cheap and uneducated reaction.

        Picture this: a bad driver does a bad, a very bad thing.

        Reactions:

        1. If driver is white anglo looking: a-hole!!, back to drive learning school
        2. If driver is a female driver: stupid woman, back to the kitchen
        3. If driver is African looking: get back to your tree
        4. If driver is Arab looking: get back to your camels
        5. If driver is Indian looking (head gear): get back to your curry pot

        And the list goes on.

        SO, it is not racist nor sexist, it is a human reaction to hate and punish. Using whatever will hurt the most.
        And some are more sensitive to others with personal racial insults … so the attacker will use race … because it hurts THEM the most, not because is a racist.

        For what the OP stated tradie DIDN'T want the job and chose the race card to quit.

        • RolandWaites on 17/04/2022 - 22:10
          +1

          Wtf. Those examples you gave are certifiably racist, sexist, racist, racist and racist in that order.

          It's correct that the tradie may have used the "race card" to get out of the job. That doesn't make it not racist. If I go to a Vietnamese restaurant and feel like I shouldn't have to pay the bill because one meal was poor, I don't get some free card to call the owner a Slope. Yes I'm angry. Yes you may think I have reason to be angry. But that doesn't make my racially-based insult not racist.

          You can't just argue that you're not racist because even if what you say is racist, you're not a racist person outside of the occasional angry outburst.

          If you engage racist language….. You're a racist.

          • LFO on 18/04/2022 - 16:23
            -1

            @RolandWaites:

            Those examples you gave are certifiably racist, sexist, racist, racist and racist in that order.

            Nope, not one bit.

            The purpose is to punish the "offender".
            Nothing to do with "real" sexism or racism.
            It is just using the weapon that hurts the most … for those easily hurt.

            Like calling someone fat. It is negative and foments hatred and hurtfulness but it is nothing else … and nothing less!

            Racism is, for example, ignoring the suffering of some war victims (non white) but crying loud for other war victims (white).
            That is RACISM

            • RolandWaites on 18/04/2022 - 17:16
              +1

              @LFO: I don't deny your final example isn't racist. It is.

              I don't, though, understand how or why you make arbitrary distinctions. To you, it would seem, it's racist to disregard the plight of one race but acknowledge the same plight of your own — but not racist to, for example, call an African man a monkey (or any range of racist slurs) because he refused to let you in his taxi.

              If you use terminology to punish or belittle a person purely because of their race (calling an African American man "boy", for example, or referring to Chinese people as chinks, or Jews as kikes) to get back at them for any reason — I've got news for you: your default reaction when you reach a point of aggravation is to resort to racism.

              The moment you use racist terminology with the intention of making a personal or cultural attack on a person, to disparage them because of the race they were born into, you're being racist.

              • LFO on 19/04/2022 - 13:39

                @RolandWaites:

                you're being racist.

                NO!

                Racism is something deep and soaked on hatred. A profound disregard for a particular race.

                Verbally insulting and using a race related insult IS NOT RACISM. Is aggressive, negative, to be avoided and whatever but IT IS NOT RACISM.
                It is spontaneous, explosive. And nothing else

                Racism is premeditated. Almost DNA like, a built-in hate.

                Trivializing racism with childish insults is demeaning to the horrendous and devastating consequences of racism.

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