Be Careful Pushing for Full-Time WFH. Don't Give Your Company an Excuse to Outsource Your Job

spychiatrist on 10/04/2022 - 11:41

A lot of people pushing for full-time WFH. Let's not kid ourselves by claiming we're more productive at home. especially if you have kids. Other distractions: telly, PS5/ XSX/ Switch, interactions with housemates/ pets (instead of interactions with co-workers in an office environment). And a lot of procrastinating - "I can do that later after dinner." "I'll just turn my laptop on and login while I go to the shops, cook, eat, nap and check OzBargain. They won't know the difference."

Don't give your boss an excuse to outsource your job interstate/ overseas or find another employee willing to work in an office environment. If you're boss/ supervisor/ superior is willing to rock up the office every day, what makes you think you're ok to WFH? Oh, you also want the same pay for WFH? What's that, you want a payrise?

Poll Options

  • 755
    WFH
  • 64
    WIO
Education & Work

Comments

        • [Deactivated] on 12/04/2022 - 08:15
          +1

          Why? If you worked in an office you'd be able to have a meeting whenever.

          You're probably just lazy and trying to take advantage of WFH.

          I work for a multi billion dollar company, and honestly working from home is a pain!
          You get so many phone calls, emails there's no way you'd have any spare time.
          Bonus saving time to heading and returning from work off course, but it's easier being at work.

          They have open offices too, so I personally don't understand how people have so much spare time.

          • apsilon on 12/04/2022 - 08:47
            +3

            @[Deactivated]: Having to call a meeting at a drop of a hat shows a lack of planning. It's reactionary. Giving them formal warnings because they don't drop everything to attend a meeting (and let's face it, most meetings are highly unproductive and one that isn't even planned is sure to be a waste of time) also shows a lack of understanding of what your employees are doing. Talking to an important client? I don't care, meeting now! Fixing a critical issue that's come up that's effecting production? I don't care, meeting now! That doesn't change regardless of being in the office or WFH.

            • rektrading on 12/04/2022 - 08:54

              @apsilon: Workers that add value to the company will go to where they're treated best.

              The company will be left with YES zombies and go out of business.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/04/2022 - 08:17

        Don't get me wrong, plenty perform well working from home! I think it works well for alot of people, but I have friends who actually like working in the office.

        Each to their own, if you're unhappy resign and find an employer that's fine with some form of WFH.

      • rektrading on 12/04/2022 - 08:23

        All of this depends on the role, but honestly if your job can be done from Home I feel like people must have very boring roles, and be easily replaceable.

        Your brother is clearly not running FAANG.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/04/2022 - 08:25
          +1

          Sounds like alot of people on here have easy jobs, lucky them!

          I wish I had a job that I could do stuff with my kids(if I had any) during work hours, go to the gym and shopping aswell!

          I'm not against WFH, but not everyone does the right thing.
          It doesn't surprise me, people who sit on here are good at working from home, but the AVG Joe is probably looking to do less work.

          • leiiv on 12/04/2022 - 13:34
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: The AVG Joe who has that mentality (looking to do less work) might actually end up doing more work by WFH compared to by WFO, if only there is an objective way to measure the output. Not just based on impression perceived by the manager or boss.

    • leiiv on 12/04/2022 - 13:25
      +1

      or in occupations that are result driven such as coding.

      Is there really any non-result-driven occupation? Almost all jobs can be made as result-driven.
      Even artists have to produce something. I can't even think of an example.

  • ravinleague on 12/04/2022 - 09:22
    +3

    WFH is the future. I am a programmer, have a kid and have no issues Working from Home. saves me travel time, tickets, parking, lunches, coffees.
    I dont understand why some aussies complain about WFH. All other countries have successfully implemented WFH policy. All you have to do is manage your working hours.

    • Ravensbane on 13/04/2022 - 12:02
      +2

      People that complain about WFH are either those that arent allowed to, are managers that are mostly no longer needed, or are people that love wasting time with others in the office rather than working.

  • Dreamcast on 12/04/2022 - 09:26
    +6

    You sound like every douche of a manager I've worked with.

    • Ravensbane on 13/04/2022 - 12:03

      What is it about managers that 95% of them are complete d!ckheads?

      • Dreamcast on 13/04/2022 - 14:12
        +4

        Had a work colleague once, that I got on with quite well. He became a manager and it seems he was enrolled into a "how to be a douchebag manager" course. Was an absolute ass to everyone afterwards.

        Ego is to blame.

  • sheepzpal on 12/04/2022 - 09:29

    Depends on the job type. But recent job ads do seem to show a bit more flexibility.
    But also never trust threads that shows off their salaries and also their 9 am - 9 pm bullshit.

  • T1OOO on 12/04/2022 - 10:49

    Already happening there’s gona be a lot of people butt hurt without a job begging to come to an office. This is what happens when u give people power it’s abused.

  • Vool on 12/04/2022 - 12:04
    +4

    Let's not kid ourselves by claiming we're more productive at home

    I mean, I have timesheets that prove I get more done when working from home.TV and game consoles are in another room so they aren't a distraction and I don't have people constantly wanting to chat or ask silly questions. I have noticed the opposite from people with kids and/or a partner also at home, I can't see their timesheets but do notice they will take take longer to reply to IM's and their status regularly shows as away.

    Having said that I do think the threat of outsourcing is bigger than a lot of people seem to think. Higher skilled jobs are less of an issue, but if a company is looking for more people doing admin and data entry type work with the intention of the employee working from home, they are more likely to consider putting on someone overseas that will work for less.

  • cookie2 on 12/04/2022 - 14:46

    I don't need to kid myself. I am so much more efficient at home and am more motivated to work additional hours too. I make sure I'm working hard so my workplace and peers that are WIO know I'm not taking the piss. And yes, I'd take a slight paycut to stay working from home, if it was offered.

  • pompompom on 12/04/2022 - 17:00

    OP is probably an old school manager who is unwilling to adjust to the new way of living. I have some ppl like this at our work place. Inspite of the evidence that WFH is just as much if not more productive, they are hell bent on bringing ppl back to work because of their own personal misconceptions.

  • ZenderBing on 12/04/2022 - 17:05
    +1

    My office set-up is in a corner in our living area.
    On the days when my wife is at home (she has a part-time job), she is not allowed to use TV or music system 9-5.
    She uses the iPad/laptop and wireless headset to not disturb me.

    I grind myself 9-5 at home and do more work than I would do in a CBD office.
    I am lucky if I get 30 min of lunch break. I absolutely love my work and I deliver real value to my clients everyday.

    The whole apartment is for me to use and work efficiently, as I desire.
    The whole apartment is my office area MINUS the other staff and annoyances.

    I can do temperature control, stock up with my favourite food/beverages, be in comfortable PJs, and customize my desk setup.

    I don't have to re-adjust a hot desk in the CBD office every morning and struggle for rest of the day with a shit chair.
    I don't have to go through unreliable Sydney trains to reach CBD.
    I don't have to prep my formals, or polish my shoe.
    I was drinking quite a lot of beer in the CBD life. With WFH, I hardly drink.

    Because my home office setup is in a corner, there is a mental separation between the work and entertainment area.
    5 pm and I step "out" of my home office and do not look back at work.
    If I have to come back to my desk setup after 5 pm, I change the ambient lights, I play the music and it tells me this is my personal time on the laptop, not for the office.

    I never play netflix or xbox during 9-5.
    But I do attend medical appointment or other urgent work, if required.

    I will try to avoid any job that asks me to be in the office full time.
    May be occasional catchups in the CBD, but full time back to office? Naah, i will simply change the jobs.

    And lastly, I don't have to buy a shoebox for 01 Mil in Sydney.
    I can be buying a decent home in QLD, or anywhere regional.

  • imurgod on 12/04/2022 - 17:15
    +3

    Only low level jobs can be outsourced overseas.

    All of our staff WFH well before the pandemic and our philosophy is that as long as the work is done and they answer calls / deal with clients' requests same day, we don't have a problem.

    Our staff are appreciative of the freedom and can work around their lives (young kids, etc.).

    The knock on effect for us has been that all of our staff go well above and beyond in their roles to the point that they often work at night and on days off despite being up-to-date. We have to tell them to stop working!

    For us, it has been a good experience and I know myself that when I worked in the office, I wasted entre days and never did my best work because there was no incentive to.

  • UFO on 12/04/2022 - 17:57
    +6

    OP was clearly looking for a lot more support than what he got.

    His whole spiel reeks of either a micromanaging middle manager who's become redundant, or a business owner greatly resisting what is an eventuality… and doesn't want to change his business plan.

    In any major city your work commute is at least an hour there, and an hour back.
    That's 10 hours of travel per week. If you honestly think that doesn't help an employee be more efficient at home (which then equates to more efficiency when doing work), you're already beyond help.

    The Trump profile pick doesn't help your cause either. Old white guy who's stuck in the 90's… hardly the "hero" you should be admiring in business.

    OP, I hope the poll results have been clear enough for you and given you the clarity you were not seeking :).

  • aspirepranesh on 12/04/2022 - 18:03
    +4

    Speak for yourself OP.

    I have been WFH for over 5 years now, even before Covid.

    I work in Customer success and my current employer and previous employer only cared about the results, ie. Are the customers happy? Am I upto date with things that need to be done? Are all issues under control?

    They didn't care how many hours they worked. In fact, I work for a US company as one of their 2 employees in AU because it makes sense for them as I am in a time zone that helps them manage customers in this part of the world. They could have hired anywhere in APAC, but they chose here and me because of local knowledge and work ethic.

    WFH requires a certain amount of discipline, but I love the flexibility and I can work in my own hours, anywhere from 5AM to 8PM, as long as the work is done.

  • SteveBuscemi on 12/04/2022 - 18:40
    +3

    You seem to be confusing working from home with having a poor work ethic.

  • BreezyPalms on 12/04/2022 - 19:27
    +2

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few pay / performance review cycles.
    For example, all things equal, will an employee who comes to the office more be promoted/ given a pay rise ahead of someone who is just 100% WFH?

    Another consideration for anyone employed in a tier 1 City (eg Sydney) where pay is typically higher than smaller cities to account for cost of living expenses, you may find your pay cut?

    Finally - at present across many industries it is an employees market due to labour shortages so employers are fearful of dictating that staff need to come back to the office. A slight recession could see job losses …or a mass immigration intake could see increased competition on jobs, in either case returning the job market back to an employers market very quickly!

  • GeneralZod on 12/04/2022 - 23:02
    +1

    One case study would be the Boeing company and how they are performing now after outsourcing. Some blame the recent failures on the outsourcing choices.

  • AlienC on 13/04/2022 - 03:59

    What about do enough work so you don't give your boss a reason to get outsourced.

    Simple huh.

  • connorlo on 13/04/2022 - 09:43
    +4

    what about 3rd option. A bit of WFH a bit of WIO, to me that's the best of both worlds

  • icecream on 13/04/2022 - 14:47
    +1

    A person lacks of discipline will show poor performance regardless where the work location is.

    A company / boss failed to see the importance of employing local staff for critical roles is not someone or a role deserves your absolute loyality anyway.

    The pandemic causes huge inconvenience but WFH inspired many of us rethink traditional work, commuting and economy activity.

    It is painful for people spending 60 to 90 minutes one-way EVERYDAY for work. Stuck in traffic is doubtfully productive from many perspective. Spare that amount of them for health improvement or other productive activities.

    A boss happy to see an semi-exhausted staff before starting the work is not very logical if the employee is able to deliver same level of work WFH.

  • steve84 on 13/04/2022 - 16:14

    The evolving geopolitical climate is going to be a headwind for offshoring. If anything I think more jobs will be coming back home than going overseas. Globalism has peaked. Companies will want to ensure security over their products, IP and supply chains. It will also be a matter of national security.

  • CRS34 on 13/04/2022 - 18:33
    +1

    those who want to go in to the office everyday should gather together and form new companies/teams and hold hands, kiss and hug each other in the office and leave those who want to wfh alone :)

  • Dose Pipe Sutututu on 13/04/2022 - 19:19
    +2

    I get so much more work done at home, better working environment with natural light, fresh air, motorised standing desk, comfortable chair, better monitors and not to mention no travel time.

    Even my own manager knows this, but because of company policies I need to show up a few times a week to prove I haven't skipped the country and working on a beach somewhere.

    Management is made up of old white fossils.

    • sangohan on 16/04/2022 - 01:57

      prove I haven't skipped the country and working on a beach somewhere.

      if you could do that, why shouldn't it be allowed?!

      Management is made up of old white fossils.

      ahh of course that's the reason for a lot of crap in the workplace…

      • Dose Pipe Sutututu on 16/04/2022 - 16:23
        +1

        Seems to be a common theme, where as you see younger tech companies with fantastic work policies that encourage a fair work/life balance.

        Unfortunately I'm not smart enough to work at those tech companies.

  • Goldenra1n on 13/04/2022 - 20:25
    +2

    I have 2 kids. They go to school and childcare and I'm way more productive working at home. I now work 100% at home for a company in Sydney and I'm based in Hobart, I fly into the office occasionally but there really is no need. I find working in the office I'm often distracted and always wasting time interacting where as at home I'll make a coffee and be back at it again. I also cost the company no overheads. They give me a laptop and I pay for the electricity, heating etc. It's saving me an hour travelling a day the benefits far outweigh working in the office.

    Today at.lunchtime I mowed the lawns then my wife called up and said she is stuck in traffic so I happily picked up the kids after work as it takes literally 20 minutes now. I have so much more spare time now as I do chores during lunchbreaks too.

  • duluxe2000 on 13/04/2022 - 21:00
    +2

    Working from home is just a catalyst to improve remoting working. Lots of business still believe in traditional working environment (e.g. offices, meeting ) so they still hold on office leases and local talents. But once the remote working is perfect regarding to technologies/processes/management and productivity, there is no reason why businesses don't seek out overseas talents with competitive salary. I work with people all over the worlds and I can tell you many of my colleagues from other parts of the work doing the job as well as (or even better than) local ones.

    But this will happen slowly and I don't think it's finished in my lifetime so yeah, I keep pushing for WFH, I will let the next generation solve the problem themselves.

  • T1OOO on 13/04/2022 - 21:44

    People
    Only have about 90 min of productivity a day as it is wfh or office.

  • sendoor on 14/04/2022 - 07:10

    There are benefits to employers too. Even with the COVID, people asked to work because of the WFH function. People get sick days very rarely. They expect to be part even in the vacation.

  • Sydneyswans on 14/04/2022 - 13:34

    WFH will mean changes to the real estate market. One can only imagine Australia Square in Sydney will one day be a hybrid apartment complex and office tower.

    My current job role and the role I have just accepted are both hybrid roles.

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